Why Do We Keep Setting Our Clocks Back an Hour? 290
"Its that time of year again," writes long-time Slashdot reader rufey:
Millions of people around the world will be adjusting (or have already adjusted) their clocks... Over the years it is apparent that most people who have spoken about the twice-yearly clock change oppose it.
So I ask, why are we still changing clocks in the year 2020?
Long-time Slashdot reader thegreatbob believes the answer is: inertia. Personally, I am less opposed, and much more indifferent to its continued existence. One thing (arguably good) that it does do is provide distinct, specific temporal reference points that the gradual changing of seasons does not, by forcing people to take some sort of irregular action.
Do I think this in any way helps cancel out the harm caused by upsetting the sleep cycles of a huge portion of the population? Absolutely not.
But Slashdot reader Anonymouse Cowtard argues they're grateful for the time change — because "I was sick of the sun waking me at 5 a.m."
Since it is that time of year again, share your own thoughts in the comments.
And why do we keep setting our clocks back an hour?
So I ask, why are we still changing clocks in the year 2020?
Long-time Slashdot reader thegreatbob believes the answer is: inertia. Personally, I am less opposed, and much more indifferent to its continued existence. One thing (arguably good) that it does do is provide distinct, specific temporal reference points that the gradual changing of seasons does not, by forcing people to take some sort of irregular action.
Do I think this in any way helps cancel out the harm caused by upsetting the sleep cycles of a huge portion of the population? Absolutely not.
But Slashdot reader Anonymouse Cowtard argues they're grateful for the time change — because "I was sick of the sun waking me at 5 a.m."
Since it is that time of year again, share your own thoughts in the comments.
And why do we keep setting our clocks back an hour?
change it one last time then stop (Score:2)
Yes, I would prefer the fall setting for the whole year please.
Daylight Saving! (Score:5, Insightful)
I prefer daylight saving forever. :P
Re: Daylight Saving! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
So then get out of bed an hour earlier. Stop fucking with the clocks.
That doesn't make your kid's school open an hour earlier, or the Post Office or whatever else you have to do for the day.
Re: (Score:3)
No, but if your community wants them open at different times, ask them to open at different times.
Your local school board sets the hours the school is open. Get a bunch of parents together, go to the next board meeting, and ask them to change the hours. You elect these people. It's their job to do what you want. If they don't, run in their place, and make the change yourself.
We don't need to do the same thing all across the country. You're making local issues everyone's issue, and that's moronic. Stop makin
Stores and businesses like time change. (Score:2)
Stores and businesses don't want to have to change the time when they open.
Re:Oh Jeez, not this shit again. (Score:5, Interesting)
too many parents complained about their kids having to walk to school in the dark during the winter.
I was such a kid. Michigan winters are already cold, and it was super freakin' cold before the sun came up. It was awful.
I used to say that I wanted DST all year long, because I prefer my daylight in the evening, when I can use it. But now that it looks like I'll be working from home forever (hooray) I think I'd prefer to stick with standard time all year long. Now that there's no commute, I like to get up early and ride my bike before I start work.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Our school system started at 9:30 for Grade 1-8; and 9:00 for Grade 9-12.
I couldn't believe it, after heading to college, that some kids had school starting at 8, or even 7am.
Re: (Score:3)
It lasted one year and then they went back to the current system, because too many parents complained about their kids having to walk to school in the dark during the winter.
1) Kids don't walk to school anymore. The world has changed since we were kids. Back then, something like half of us walked or biked to school. Now it's a tiny fraction of students in most places.
2) This is because schools start too early. Plenty of research shows this. They're finally starting to adjust starting times a little now, but when kids biologically should be sleeping, it's moronic to be trying to educate them.
3) If it's a problem, the local school board can adjust the opening time of the school.
Re:Daylight Saving! (Score:5, Informative)
Since you didn't include the whole story, the House approved the bill easily, then it went to the Senate where Mitch McConnell decided not to advance it. Fuck Mitch McConnell.
Re: (Score:3)
Fully agreed. On the shortest day of the year the sun rises at 8:46 and sets at 16:30 where I live. I really don't see why all hours of daylight must necessarily the ones I'm at work. I'm sure that was helpful when half the population worked in the fields, but that hasn't been the case for a few generations now...
Re: change it one last time then stop (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
The idea was to save energy under 1970s shortage innumeracy follies by not turning on office lights during normal business hours. That was a dubious savings but touted and idiot politicians fell into line virtue signalling as is their wont.
Re: (Score:3)
On the shortest day of the year the sun rises at 8:46 and sets at 16:30 where I live.
That would put solar noon at 12:38. You could argue that you're in the wrong time zone; changing to the next time zone would be put solar noon at 11:38, which is at least closer to 12:00. Either way, though, it's just bad luck that your location is near the edge of a time zone.
Re:change it one last time then stop (Score:5, Informative)
Re:change it one last time then stop (Score:5, Insightful)
I live in the UK. I'm old enough to remember the late 1960s when we had an experiment with summer time all year round.
Here in Arizona, we're perfectly happy with standard time year round. Your need for Double Summer Time is greater at high latitudes, but if you do eliminate the change, using standard time is less jarring.
Re:change it one last time then stop (Score:5, Funny)
The third option would be to put it in the middle.
Change it by half an hour and everybody will be happy.
Re:change it one last time then stop (Score:5, Funny)
The third option would be to put it in the middle.
Change it by half an hour and nobody will be happy.
Fixed that for you.
Re: (Score:2)
Glass half empty/glass half full. The main point is that nobody will be able to gloat.
Re: (Score:3)
Ah, that is to simple!
We could change it 2 times half an hour back, and later two times half an our forward, or just the opposite.
Or even better, for 6 month we put it every month 5 minutes forward, and then afterwards 5 minutes backward. We could even make a special holiday when the time is again "correct". I call it the "Correct Time Day!"
Re: (Score:3)
I think it would solve the problem if we changed the time by 6 months. Then it will be warm and bright in the winter. The summer might suffer a bit, but you can't have everything.
Re:change it one last time then stop (Score:5, Informative)
standardtime.com (Score:3)
If California Oregon and Washington adopted this "Standard Time" recommendation the rest of the country would two.
No more time change, 2 time zones in the US.
Re: (Score:3)
If California Oregon and Washington adopted this "Standard Time" recommendation the rest of the country would two.
I believe the three states already have passed resolutions to that effect (permanent daylight saving time). I know for sure Washington state has.
Fun fact: British Columbia has said if the west coast states go on permanent daylight saving time, it will as well.
My state wants to go to year-round DST (Score:2)
But Congress has to approve it first. A state can choose year-round standard time, but not year-round daylight saving time.
This time, I've resolved to not change my schedule for the "fall back" (we'll see if I manage to stick with the plan). It should be easier with all the COVID-19 stuff, because I'm still working from home - and that's likely to continue through the winter. Since my phone's clock will fall back, I'll have to start setting my alarm an hour earlier (relatively speaking) and adjusting my bed
Re: (Score:2)
But Congress has to approve it first. A state can choose year-round standard time, but not year-round daylight saving time.
But it can choose its time zone for standard time, can't it? So instead of choosing Mountain Daylight Time all year round, it can simply choose Central Standard Time.
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately time zones are set down in law. Otherwise we could just change our time zone twice a year the opposite way of DST and keep the same time.
Because curtains are hard.. (Score:2)
Here in Aus, we set our clocks back so we can get EVEN MOAR skin cancer.
Re: (Score:2)
Here in Aus, we set our clocks back ...
You mean there in Eastern Australia. We here in Western Australia know better.
So that the rest of the world... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well to be fair much of the rest of the world was aligned with America in the past. The act of changing the clocks doesn't confuse the rest of the world. Bush changing the date on which Americans does it confuses the rest of the world.
Is that really a problem (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Train schedules, Flight schedules, Powerplant schedules.
The scheduling software for powerplants and grids I was invloved in has 3 "day views".
a) 24h
b) 23h
c) 245
Otherwise "planning a day ahead" is not easy. Considering that the law demands that the schedules are int that format, the "typical idea" of "I know better than you" idiots: "Hey? Why do you not use UTC and all 24h days?" does not work.
Re: (Score:2)
Considering that the law demands that the schedules are int that format, the "typical idea" of "I know better than you" idiots: "Hey? Why do you not use UTC and all 24h days?" does not work.
It does not just not work because of the law. If also fails because train schedules, flight schedules, and, yes, power plant schedules need to align with the schedule of the people who demand trains, flights and electricity according to their schedule.
Re: (Score:3)
I would have much more problems with the same time all year round because it would either means waking up in the middle of the dark on winters, or having the sun shining at 4am on summers.
Because you could never change the time you get up or go to bed, eh?
I wonder how humans handled seasons over the last 10k-20k years. We probably all just died.
Re: (Score:3)
Your supply of Mountain House must be getting low.
Re: (Score:2)
So... home made, Rising S or Atlas?
Duh (Score:5, Funny)
Why Do We Keep Setting Our Clocks Back an Hour?
Because we keep setting them forward.
Re: (Score:2)
That's the question though, do we want to be on permanent summer time or permanent winter time?
In order to stop switching the clocks we have to pick one, so it's not just inertia, it's an inability to agree on that too.
Re: (Score:2)
In order to stop switching the clocks we have to pick one, so it's not just inertia, it's an inability to agree on that too.
Or we could pick "neither" and put it in the middle.
Re: (Score:2)
Some places are a quarter hour off... I expect if it was say 8 minutes it would break many, many computer systems. Maybe we should do it.
Re: Duh (Score:2)
Re: Or: (Score:5, Interesting)
A group of scientists placed 5 monkeys in a cage and in the middle, a ladder with bananas on the top. Every time a monkey went up the ladder, the scientists soaked the rest of the monkeys with cold water. After a while, every time a monkey went up the ladder, the others beat up the one on the ladder. After some time, no monkey dare[d] to go up the ladder regardless of the temptation. Scientists then decided to substitute one of the monkeys. The 1st thing this new monkey did was to go up the ladder. Immediately the other monkeys beat him up.
After several beatings, the new member learned not to climb the ladder even though he never knew why. A 2nd monkey was substituted and the same occurred. The 1st monkey participated on [sic] the beating for [sic] the 2nd monkey. A 3rd monkey was changed and the same was repeated (beating). The 4th was substituted and the beating was repeated and finally the 5th monkey was replaced. What was left was a group of 5 monkeys that even though never received a cold shower, continued to beat up any monkey who attempted to climb the ladder.
If it was possible to ask the monkeys why they would beat up all those who attempted to go up the ladder .. I bet you the answer would be .. "I don't know — that's how things are done around here" Does it sound familiar?
Re: (Score:2)
Does it sound familiar?
Yeah. That's why Boeing corporate decided to move aircraft production from Washington State to South Carolina. Change all the monkeys at once.
Re: (Score:2)
Does it sound familiar?
Yeah. That's why Boeing corporate decided to move aircraft production from Washington State to South Carolina. Change all the monkeys at once.
In South Carolina, the worker monkeys are conditioned not to climb the ladder when union membership is placed atop it.
Re:Duh -- we set them fwd (Score:2)
Wrong question -- countries at mid/high latitudes set clocks forward for summer to have more daylight in the evening after 6pm (and less in the mourning before 6am). Clocks are reset backward to "standard time" for winter to restore noon near perihelion when there is less daylight. Duh!
Countries nearer the equator (say between the tropics of cancer and capricorn) see less difference in day length so have only political reasons for changing clocks.
daylight saving+computers=unexpected results (Score:2)
I had a .csv document open, opened before the european savings time change last week and making changes in the sheet.
The other day, after the weekend, i's closing up, saving it, only to get the warning that the underlying document had changed. If i really really was sure i wanted to save and overwrite that.
Now, this is the kind of stuff that makes daylight change and computers water and fire. Yes, computers can do the math. And there's a zillion time converting routines. In the end the result was an applica
Re:daylight saving+computers=unexpected results (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember working for an investment firm that had left the timezone of some of its computers in GMT/UTC but set that time to be EST and it was insanity. I've run into industrial HMI devices that allows the operator to set the device's time but not the timezone, so exporting captured data is all fucked up because the timestamps are in UTC but the device was internally CET without telling any one.
Re: (Score:2)
Why would it matter for spreadsheets or CSV files? The timestamp is part of the file metadata, not part of the internal user data.
Re: (Score:2)
In the end the result was an application checking the files' timestamp, and falsely concluding it was not the same file as expected.
That does not sound plausible. The timestamp is usually a unix timestamp. And anyway: should not change because of time change. Probably you were using Excel? Excel always claims the document was changed, they never fixed that stupid bug, haunts me since 20 years or so.
Because .. even a time zone is a generalisation! (Score:4, Insightful)
And why do I keep bringing up a time zone when we want to discuss DST-shift? -> answer down below.
Generally most humans are bound to the day-night cycle, while we all know the concept of the time zone, even this time zone has a differential in daylight, but this very timezone can keep industries synchronized.
Now we have countries and state unions that spawn multiple time zones and sometimes those time zones are extending for a large amount of degrees(east-west) in contrast to other countries.
For example 6 o'clock in western France is not the same "real daylight time" as in eastern Poland, yet they are both in the same "freaking" time zone - think about living in Poland equals waking up in the middle of the night.
And the the "real daylight time" that is - should be - the basis for our sleep cycle is shifting, days during winter are shorter while during summer are longer and they keep shifting day-by-day and not on a set date.
Here I come back to DST: .. but this intention is directly tied to our sleep cycle. And for those living at the ends of those artificially overgrown time zones DST has turned into a part-time relief.
DST was brought up by a different intention = to save energy
To scuttle DST successfully we also need to break up of those overly large time zones at the cost of loosing some economical synchronicity.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Timezone may break down. But to end the clock setting forever, we shall adopt an office hour change for those who want the "benefit" of DST or Summer Time. Tell them to change their official opening hour / working schedule, then they won't mess with the clock again.
For society as a whole, it's much better if there's a pre-defined standard when any by what amount people adapt their schedules.
Re: (Score:2)
To scuttle DST successfully we also need to break up of those overly large time zones at the cost of loosing some economical synchronicity.
Actually we don't, or do you really think ppl in east Poland have the same time school starting than west France? Or the bank opens at the same time?
But it is funny to be in west France at 23:00 "Germany Time" and still have a glimpse of daylight/dusk.
Re: (Score:2)
For example 6 o'clock in western France is not the same "real daylight time" as in eastern Poland, yet they are both in the same "freaking" time zone.
This is a result of WWII. Prior to that, France used the same time zone as the UK, Ireland, Spain and Portugal. When the Germans arrived, they carried on using their time setting. After the war, politics and business intervened and it was decided that France would stay the same as its big neighbours on CET/CEST.
What's the % of the WHOLE population care? (Score:2)
Over the years it is apparent that most people who have spoken about the twice-yearly clock change oppose it.
I think this DST stuff is nonsense, too. But that's the very definition of "vocal minority".
Because I don't want them to be out by an hour (Score:3)
And because not all clocks in the house have an internet or radio connection to get the time themselves. Did that answer the question or did you ask the wrong with in an effort to make a nice clickbait title?
Re: (Score:2)
And because not all clocks in the house have an internet or radio connection to get the time themselves. []
That's entirely by your own choice.
Dawn now 4:33am and sunrise is 4:57am (Score:2)
Yes I want Daylight Saving. NOW.
It's totally nuts not having it - even a state west of us does, and is half an hour ahead of us.
But I think I'll be waiting for a while sadly
To annoy people (Score:3)
It's seriously annoying. I still wake up at the same un-adjusted time and my dog still expects feeding at the old time too. Of course I can schedule both of those at a moment that doesn't conflict with these time changes. But it just feels silly to have to do so.
I realize there are good reasons for some businesses or people to adjust their schedule, but why can't they do that like adults? You know - talk to each other and come up with a seasonal schedule. Why force half the world to suffer these changes just for their benefit?
Re: (Score:2)
You mean like the local hardware store having winter hours and summer hours?
Nah, that makes too much sense.
Getting rid of DST is a pseudo-solution. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
US goes back standard time a week after Europe? (Score:3)
Change working hours, not clocks. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want to have more light in the morning in the winter, start work later. There is no need to change the clocks. This would work for me, because working hours have always been pretty flexible anyway. I used to start at about 8:00. This was largely dictated by available public transport. When the company moved, I shifted to a 7:00 or earlier start, as there were earlier buses. It did not seem to matter that engineers were starting and finishing at different times. There was always enough overlap of working hours to ensure the usual interactions in the office/lab.
I do not generally deal directly with production staff at work, so I do not know if flexible hours are applicable to them. I can imagine there would be problems if you need a complete team to do a particular job.
You want to get up at 4am? (Score:4)
Why? Because it allows you those nice long summer evenings and prevents you from dawn at 4am to start waking you up.
Next Up On Slashdot: (Score:2)
Why do we keep the QWERTY layout when nobody uses mechanical typewriters any more?
Why is the time system not decimalised?
Why don't all countries speak English?
The young are always confused by the nonsensical ingrained habits of the old.
Re: (Score:2)
Why is the time system not decimalised?
This has actually been tried: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:3)
Why do we keep the QWERTY layout when nobody uses mechanical typewriters any more?
Modern mechanical typewriters don't need it either. The reason we are sticking to it is that the whole world would grind to a shuddering halt if the millions of keyboard users dropped from 40-100 words per minute for professionals to 15-30. If you want, go and try a Dvorak keyboard but you will be a tiny minority.
Why is the time system not decimalised?
The French tried it after the revolution. That was when they invented driving on the right. They gave up on the decimal time and calendar but they did succeed in imposing driving on the right u
DST changes possibly liinked to heart-attacks (Score:3)
I recall hearing about this a few years ago but I don't know if the studies have been expanded. DST change increases heart attacks in the following week and then hanging the clocks back to standard decreases heart attacks the following week.
https://openheart.bmj.com/cont... [bmj.com]
Re: (Score:3)
That's not because of the change, it's because of the anger/outrage felt at being forced to do something.
Personally (Score:2)
The most powerful question. (Score:2)
So, one answer provided here, was "inertia".
Allow me to translate that, as well as offer a way to defeat this, and perhaps make progress on this issue so we don't have to gather our tribal thoughts together on this twice a year, every year for the next century.
(Tradition) "Because we've always done it this way."
(Me): "Why."
(Tradition) "Uh...beecause we've always done it this way...?"
(Me): "I said, Why."
(Tradition) "Uh...I already told yo..."
(Me): "WHY."
(Tradition) "Uh...Umm..."
Sometimes, it takes mor
Solution... (Score:2)
Literally nobody has answered this question (Score:4, Insightful)
So we can read articles about this twice a year (Score:3)
It's probably because half the population disagrees which time to keep; plus ineffective governments and of course globalization creates more concern than necessary.
I don't really care if we keep it (Score:4, Interesting)
...but I do love watching people lose their shit about something so trivial twice a year.
I'd keep it just for that.
To get in sync with official time zone (Score:2)
The clock is set back to it matches your actual time zone - leaving it an hour out of sync with that makes no sense. That's the offiical time, working hours etc should adapt to that.
The better question is: "Why do we adjust it twice a year - why do we have daylight savings time?". Here in Norway it's called "summertime", and for me that explains it better. In summer, when the days are are long, it allows us to have even longer and better evenings by shifting the day slightly - it's better to have an hour
Because the Sun should not rise at midnight (Score:3)
If we did not "Keep Setting Our Clocks Back an Hour", we would introduce an one-hour offset every year when we set them forward in spring. This would accumulate, and half of the years, the Sun would shine when our clocks say its night.
Re: (Score:2)
We really must ask ourselves... (Score:5, Insightful)
...why slashdot insists on repeating this conversation twice yearly, as if anybody's opinions have changed since the last time, or the last 30 times...
Because we have always been ruled (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What makes you wake up? If I am to be woken up for work, the alarm on my phone charging beside my bed does it. If the "clocks change" it will wake me up 1 hour earlier or later as needed. If I am not working, I tend to set it for 09:00 and if I wake before that, I relax happily as I don't need to get up!
Why do we keep asking the same question? (Score:3)
Why was daylight saving time expanded? (Score:2)
Why not do a brief daylight saving time in the summer when school is out? The sun would come up a bit later. Without the time change the sun would be coming up before 5 here. Kids would get an extra hour of sleep when school starts.
Or may be business could just move to summer hours and open an hour earlier in the summer.
The others didn't know they had to say something (Score:4, Insightful)
Over the years it is apparent that most people who have spoken about the twice-yearly clock change oppose it.
That's because the people who don't oppose it had no reason to "speak about" it. Duh.
Fuck the Sun (Score:2)
Because... (Score:2)
We pine for standard time.;
Daylight saving was and is an epic fail for anyone with children.
Retailers (Score:2)
We keep it around for the retailers that claim they get more sales. It's time to get rid of it since the most recent studies showed that the change in schedule from the Bush Administration showed that there was no real energy savings from switching to DST.
Indeed (Score:3)
That time of the year again, when whiners looking for a cause gang up over DST.
Re: (Score:3)
I think that should be rephrased:
It's the stupid law,
Re:No clocks (Score:5, Funny)
Who am I? (Score:2)
I sleep when I'm tired, wake up when I'm rested and eat when I'm hungry. I rarely have to care what time it is
Hmm I think I got it: you're Kwai Chang Caine!
Re: (Score:2)
Last week I 'attended' a lecture in Sydney. The time was advertised as noon Australia Eastern Time, but we got various stories about how that translated to US time zones, and whether the organizers had taken our welter of time zones, exceptions and boundary jiggles into account. And would that be summer time by now down under, or still standard? Did they know that it was still Daylight Saving for observing US locations?
But all I had to do was add a Sydney clock to my time app, and I knew right away to Zoom
Re: (Score:2)
Are you 15 or 80?
Regardless, it's clear that you don't have a life.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: For $$$ (Score:2)
Collision repair places make more money. Hospitals make more money. Crashes and heart attacks increase with the change. (of time, not the other "the change")
Reminds me of the episode of Make Way for Noddy where the gremlins used invisible paint to cause car crashes and the mechanic paid them for bringing in more business.
One person's pain is another's gain.
Re: (Score:2)
That's far too sensible to ever happen.
Re:legality (Score:4, Interesting)
The two hours are called 02A:00 and 02B:00. At least in Germany.