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Why Do We Keep Setting Our Clocks Back an Hour? 290

"Its that time of year again," writes long-time Slashdot reader rufey: Millions of people around the world will be adjusting (or have already adjusted) their clocks... Over the years it is apparent that most people who have spoken about the twice-yearly clock change oppose it.

So I ask, why are we still changing clocks in the year 2020?

Long-time Slashdot reader thegreatbob believes the answer is: inertia. Personally, I am less opposed, and much more indifferent to its continued existence. One thing (arguably good) that it does do is provide distinct, specific temporal reference points that the gradual changing of seasons does not, by forcing people to take some sort of irregular action.

Do I think this in any way helps cancel out the harm caused by upsetting the sleep cycles of a huge portion of the population? Absolutely not.

But Slashdot reader Anonymouse Cowtard argues they're grateful for the time change — because "I was sick of the sun waking me at 5 a.m."

Since it is that time of year again, share your own thoughts in the comments.

And why do we keep setting our clocks back an hour?
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Why Do We Keep Setting Our Clocks Back an Hour?

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  • Yes, I would prefer the fall setting for the whole year please.

    • Daylight Saving! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by antdude ( 79039 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @03:18AM (#60671094) Homepage Journal

      I prefer daylight saving forever. :P

      • by NagrothAgain ( 4130865 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @08:19AM (#60671530)
        So then get out of bed an hour earlier. Stop fucking with the clocks.
        • So then get out of bed an hour earlier. Stop fucking with the clocks.

          That doesn't make your kid's school open an hour earlier, or the Post Office or whatever else you have to do for the day.

          • No, but if your community wants them open at different times, ask them to open at different times.

            Your local school board sets the hours the school is open. Get a bunch of parents together, go to the next board meeting, and ask them to change the hours. You elect these people. It's their job to do what you want. If they don't, run in their place, and make the change yourself.

            We don't need to do the same thing all across the country. You're making local issues everyone's issue, and that's moronic. Stop makin

    • Fully agreed. On the shortest day of the year the sun rises at 8:46 and sets at 16:30 where I live. I really don't see why all hours of daylight must necessarily the ones I'm at work. I'm sure that was helpful when half the population worked in the fields, but that hasn't been the case for a few generations now...

      • yeah it makes sense to those in a position on the earth where turning it on means its still light when you come home from work. it sucks walking out of the office in to the dark. though having said that, now working from home is acceptible in lots of cases, well i guess it still makes sense.
      • The idea was to save energy under 1970s shortage innumeracy follies by not turning on office lights during normal business hours. That was a dubious savings but touted and idiot politicians fell into line virtue signalling as is their wont.

      • On the shortest day of the year the sun rises at 8:46 and sets at 16:30 where I live.

        That would put solar noon at 12:38. You could argue that you're in the wrong time zone; changing to the next time zone would be put solar noon at 11:38, which is at least closer to 12:00. Either way, though, it's just bad luck that your location is near the edge of a time zone.

    • by clive_p ( 547409 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @05:09AM (#60671230)
      I live in the UK. I'm old enough to remember the late 1960s when we had an experiment with summer time all year round. At our latitude either going to work or coming home has to be in the dark for a few months in the winter, but with "summer time" in the winter it meant that it didn't get light until after 9am and got dark again by 5pm, so for most people it meant two journeys in the dark instead of just one. I found the experience pretty unpleasant and maybe dangerous on a bike. Apparently many others had the same opinion. Because of public reaction, the experiment was ended after a couple of years although it had been intended to be permanent. So if you guys want a change to permanent summer time - make sure it's an experiment that can be reversed it it makes things worse.
    • by Joce640k ( 829181 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @05:39AM (#60671284) Homepage

      The third option would be to put it in the middle.

      Change it by half an hour and everybody will be happy.

      • by rudy_wayne ( 414635 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @06:31AM (#60671364)

        The third option would be to put it in the middle.

        Change it by half an hour and nobody will be happy.

        Fixed that for you.

      • Ah, that is to simple!
        We could change it 2 times half an hour back, and later two times half an our forward, or just the opposite.
        Or even better, for 6 month we put it every month 5 minutes forward, and then afterwards 5 minutes backward. We could even make a special holiday when the time is again "correct". I call it the "Correct Time Day!"

      • I think it would solve the problem if we changed the time by 6 months. Then it will be warm and bright in the winter. The summer might suffer a bit, but you can't have everything.

  • by GodWasAnAlien ( 206300 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @02:45AM (#60671018)

    If California Oregon and Washington adopted this "Standard Time" recommendation the rest of the country would two.

    No more time change, 2 time zones in the US.

    • If California Oregon and Washington adopted this "Standard Time" recommendation the rest of the country would two.

      I believe the three states already have passed resolutions to that effect (permanent daylight saving time). I know for sure Washington state has.

      Fun fact: British Columbia has said if the west coast states go on permanent daylight saving time, it will as well.

  • But Congress has to approve it first. A state can choose year-round standard time, but not year-round daylight saving time.

    This time, I've resolved to not change my schedule for the "fall back" (we'll see if I manage to stick with the plan). It should be easier with all the COVID-19 stuff, because I'm still working from home - and that's likely to continue through the winter. Since my phone's clock will fall back, I'll have to start setting my alarm an hour earlier (relatively speaking) and adjusting my bed

    • by 3247 ( 161794 )

      But Congress has to approve it first. A state can choose year-round standard time, but not year-round daylight saving time.

      But it can choose its time zone for standard time, can't it? So instead of choosing Mountain Daylight Time all year round, it can simply choose Central Standard Time.

      • Unfortunately time zones are set down in law. Otherwise we could just change our time zone twice a year the opposite way of DST and keep the same time.

  • Here in Aus, we set our clocks back so we can get EVEN MOAR skin cancer.

    • Here in Aus, we set our clocks back ...

      You mean there in Eastern Australia. We here in Western Australia know better.

  • Is never sure what time it is in America?
    • Well to be fair much of the rest of the world was aligned with America in the past. The act of changing the clocks doesn't confuse the rest of the world. Bush changing the date on which Americans does it confuses the rest of the world.

  • Apart from having to manually set the old clocks, and having to write special tests in my code for those dates, I never really understood where the problem of the time change is. I would have much more problems with the same time all year round because it would either means waking up in the middle of the dark on winters, or having the sun shining at 4am on summers.
    • Train schedules, Flight schedules, Powerplant schedules.

      The scheduling software for powerplants and grids I was invloved in has 3 "day views".
      a) 24h
      b) 23h
      c) 245

      Otherwise "planning a day ahead" is not easy. Considering that the law demands that the schedules are int that format, the "typical idea" of "I know better than you" idiots: "Hey? Why do you not use UTC and all 24h days?" does not work.

      • by 3247 ( 161794 )

        Considering that the law demands that the schedules are int that format, the "typical idea" of "I know better than you" idiots: "Hey? Why do you not use UTC and all 24h days?" does not work.

        It does not just not work because of the law. If also fails because train schedules, flight schedules, and, yes, power plant schedules need to align with the schedule of the people who demand trains, flights and electricity according to their schedule.

    • I would have much more problems with the same time all year round because it would either means waking up in the middle of the dark on winters, or having the sun shining at 4am on summers.

      Because you could never change the time you get up or go to bed, eh?

      I wonder how humans handled seasons over the last 10k-20k years. We probably all just died.

  • Duh (Score:5, Funny)

    by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @03:21AM (#60671102)

    Why Do We Keep Setting Our Clocks Back an Hour?

    Because we keep setting them forward.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      That's the question though, do we want to be on permanent summer time or permanent winter time?

      In order to stop switching the clocks we have to pick one, so it's not just inertia, it's an inability to agree on that too.

      • In order to stop switching the clocks we have to pick one, so it's not just inertia, it's an inability to agree on that too.

        Or we could pick "neither" and put it in the middle.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Some places are a quarter hour off... I expect if it was say 8 minutes it would break many, many computer systems. Maybe we should do it.

      • do we want to be on permanent summer time or permanent winter time? Neither. We want to be on permanent normal time (what you call "winter" time) and any place that prefers the other can change their timezone.
    • Re: Or: (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rmdingler ( 1955220 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @08:11AM (#60671510) Journal
      Maybe just out of habit. [stackexchange.com]

      A group of scientists placed 5 monkeys in a cage and in the middle, a ladder with bananas on the top. Every time a monkey went up the ladder, the scientists soaked the rest of the monkeys with cold water. After a while, every time a monkey went up the ladder, the others beat up the one on the ladder. After some time, no monkey dare[d] to go up the ladder regardless of the temptation. Scientists then decided to substitute one of the monkeys. The 1st thing this new monkey did was to go up the ladder. Immediately the other monkeys beat him up.

      After several beatings, the new member learned not to climb the ladder even though he never knew why. A 2nd monkey was substituted and the same occurred. The 1st monkey participated on [sic] the beating for [sic] the 2nd monkey. A 3rd monkey was changed and the same was repeated (beating). The 4th was substituted and the beating was repeated and finally the 5th monkey was replaced. What was left was a group of 5 monkeys that even though never received a cold shower, continued to beat up any monkey who attempted to climb the ladder.

      If it was possible to ask the monkeys why they would beat up all those who attempted to go up the ladder .. I bet you the answer would be .. "I don't know — that's how things are done around here" Does it sound familiar?

      • by PPH ( 736903 )

        Does it sound familiar?

        Yeah. That's why Boeing corporate decided to move aircraft production from Washington State to South Carolina. Change all the monkeys at once.

        • Does it sound familiar?

          Yeah. That's why Boeing corporate decided to move aircraft production from Washington State to South Carolina. Change all the monkeys at once.

          In South Carolina, the worker monkeys are conditioned not to climb the ladder when union membership is placed atop it.

    • Wrong question -- countries at mid/high latitudes set clocks forward for summer to have more daylight in the evening after 6pm (and less in the mourning before 6am). Clocks are reset backward to "standard time" for winter to restore noon near perihelion when there is less daylight. Duh!

      Countries nearer the equator (say between the tropics of cancer and capricorn) see less difference in day length so have only political reasons for changing clocks.

  • I had a .csv document open, opened before the european savings time change last week and making changes in the sheet.

    The other day, after the weekend, i's closing up, saving it, only to get the warning that the underlying document had changed. If i really really was sure i wanted to save and overwrite that.

    Now, this is the kind of stuff that makes daylight change and computers water and fire. Yes, computers can do the math. And there's a zillion time converting routines. In the end the result was an applica

    • by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @05:22AM (#60671246)
      The sane way for software to operate is to use UTC internally and keep the localized time format stuff in the user interface. I realise for spreadsheets that it presents additional problems because users input dates and importing / exporting to CSV forces the spreadsheet to guess. But even so it should be internally sane and put safeguards in the document around the places these things happen.

      I remember working for an investment firm that had left the timezone of some of its computers in GMT/UTC but set that time to be EST and it was insanity. I've run into industrial HMI devices that allows the operator to set the device's time but not the timezone, so exporting captured data is all fucked up because the timestamps are in UTC but the device was internally CET without telling any one.

      • Why would it matter for spreadsheets or CSV files? The timestamp is part of the file metadata, not part of the internal user data.

    • In the end the result was an application checking the files' timestamp, and falsely concluding it was not the same file as expected.
      That does not sound plausible. The timestamp is usually a unix timestamp. And anyway: should not change because of time change. Probably you were using Excel? Excel always claims the document was changed, they never fixed that stupid bug, haunts me since 20 years or so.

  • by burni2 ( 1643061 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @03:51AM (#60671130)

    And why do I keep bringing up a time zone when we want to discuss DST-shift? -> answer down below.

    Generally most humans are bound to the day-night cycle, while we all know the concept of the time zone, even this time zone has a differential in daylight, but this very timezone can keep industries synchronized.

    Now we have countries and state unions that spawn multiple time zones and sometimes those time zones are extending for a large amount of degrees(east-west) in contrast to other countries.

    For example 6 o'clock in western France is not the same "real daylight time" as in eastern Poland, yet they are both in the same "freaking" time zone - think about living in Poland equals waking up in the middle of the night.

    And the the "real daylight time" that is - should be - the basis for our sleep cycle is shifting, days during winter are shorter while during summer are longer and they keep shifting day-by-day and not on a set date.

    Here I come back to DST:
    DST was brought up by a different intention = to save energy .. but this intention is directly tied to our sleep cycle. And for those living at the ends of those artificially overgrown time zones DST has turned into a part-time relief.

    To scuttle DST successfully we also need to break up of those overly large time zones at the cost of loosing some economical synchronicity.

    • Timezone may break down. But to end the clock setting forever, we shall adopt an office hour change for those who want the "benefit" of DST or Summer Time. Tell them to change their official opening hour / working schedule, then they won't mess with the clock again.
      • by 3247 ( 161794 )

        Timezone may break down. But to end the clock setting forever, we shall adopt an office hour change for those who want the "benefit" of DST or Summer Time. Tell them to change their official opening hour / working schedule, then they won't mess with the clock again.

        For society as a whole, it's much better if there's a pre-defined standard when any by what amount people adapt their schedules.

    • To scuttle DST successfully we also need to break up of those overly large time zones at the cost of loosing some economical synchronicity.
      Actually we don't, or do you really think ppl in east Poland have the same time school starting than west France? Or the bank opens at the same time?
      But it is funny to be in west France at 23:00 "Germany Time" and still have a glimpse of daylight/dusk.

    • by Gonoff ( 88518 )

      For example 6 o'clock in western France is not the same "real daylight time" as in eastern Poland, yet they are both in the same "freaking" time zone.

      This is a result of WWII. Prior to that, France used the same time zone as the UK, Ireland, Spain and Portugal. When the Germans arrived, they carried on using their time setting. After the war, politics and business intervened and it was decided that France would stay the same as its big neighbours on CET/CEST.

  • Over the years it is apparent that most people who have spoken about the twice-yearly clock change oppose it.

    I think this DST stuff is nonsense, too. But that's the very definition of "vocal minority".

  • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @03:55AM (#60671134)

    And because not all clocks in the house have an internet or radio connection to get the time themselves. Did that answer the question or did you ask the wrong with in an effort to make a nice clickbait title?

    • by 3247 ( 161794 )

      And because not all clocks in the house have an internet or radio connection to get the time themselves. []

      That's entirely by your own choice.

  • ...at the moment here in Brisbane, Oz. Because we are right at the leading edge of our timezone.

    Yes I want Daylight Saving. NOW.
    It's totally nuts not having it - even a state west of us does, and is half an hour ahead of us.
    But I think I'll be waiting for a while sadly :(
  • by longk ( 2637033 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @04:18AM (#60671152)

    It's seriously annoying. I still wake up at the same un-adjusted time and my dog still expects feeding at the old time too. Of course I can schedule both of those at a moment that doesn't conflict with these time changes. But it just feels silly to have to do so.

    I realize there are good reasons for some businesses or people to adjust their schedule, but why can't they do that like adults? You know - talk to each other and come up with a seasonal schedule. Why force half the world to suffer these changes just for their benefit?

    • You mean like the local hardware store having winter hours and summer hours?

      Nah, that makes too much sense.

  • My impression is that people will in reverse demand changing the clocks twice each year when some decades without daylight saving time have passed. The circadian cycle changes between summer and winter, and if you live further to the North, it changes more prominently. You will sleep less during the summer, about half to an hour. You will go to bed later in summer and get up more early. A strict clock which schedules the day in equal portions in summer and winter alike runs afoul that natural change. So it
    • Keep the government office hour change like there was DST, but keep the clock fixed. Afterward, each business and/or school can make their own decision. In a rational world, only sovereignty change of a territory such as cession, unification, independence etc shall generate change of clock / timezone. Unfortunately, stupid DST was invented.
  • by simlox ( 6576120 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @05:13AM (#60671240)
    Now someone really want to make things complicated! If we at least agreed on the same dates, I would always be 6 hours ahead of the US east coast. Now it is mostly 6, but one week it is 5, another it is 7.
  • by WierdUncle ( 6807634 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @05:26AM (#60671250)

    If you want to have more light in the morning in the winter, start work later. There is no need to change the clocks. This would work for me, because working hours have always been pretty flexible anyway. I used to start at about 8:00. This was largely dictated by available public transport. When the company moved, I shifted to a 7:00 or earlier start, as there were earlier buses. It did not seem to matter that engineers were starting and finishing at different times. There was always enough overlap of working hours to ensure the usual interactions in the office/lab.

    I do not generally deal directly with production staff at work, so I do not know if flexible hours are applicable to them. I can imagine there would be problems if you need a complete team to do a particular job.

  • by HnT ( 306652 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @05:31AM (#60671254)

    Why? Because it allows you those nice long summer evenings and prevents you from dawn at 4am to start waking you up.

  • Why do we keep the QWERTY layout when nobody uses mechanical typewriters any more?

    Why is the time system not decimalised?

    Why don't all countries speak English?

    The young are always confused by the nonsensical ingrained habits of the old.

    • Why is the time system not decimalised?

      This has actually been tried: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    • by Gonoff ( 88518 )

      Why do we keep the QWERTY layout when nobody uses mechanical typewriters any more?

      Modern mechanical typewriters don't need it either. The reason we are sticking to it is that the whole world would grind to a shuddering halt if the millions of keyboard users dropped from 40-100 words per minute for professionals to 15-30. If you want, go and try a Dvorak keyboard but you will be a tiny minority.

      Why is the time system not decimalised?

      The French tried it after the revolution. That was when they invented driving on the right. They gave up on the decimal time and calendar but they did succeed in imposing driving on the right u

  • by Monoman ( 8745 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @05:34AM (#60671274) Homepage

    I recall hearing about this a few years ago but I don't know if the studies have been expanded. DST change increases heart attacks in the following week and then hanging the clocks back to standard decreases heart attacks the following week.

    https://openheart.bmj.com/cont... [bmj.com]

    • That's not because of the change, it's because of the anger/outrage felt at being forced to do something.

  • I'd prefer if we (UK) stuck with the same time all year round. I don't care whether we go with winter or summer time for the whole year, my sleep is nicely independent of whether there is daylight or not, and I don't mind commuting to/from work in the dark. I'm just fed up of having to adjust half a dozen clocks manually twice a year, it's a hassle I can do without. And no I'm not replacing all my clocks with IoT clocks. Several of these clocks are radio clocks that were working fine (including automatic
  • So, one answer provided here, was "inertia".

    Allow me to translate that, as well as offer a way to defeat this, and perhaps make progress on this issue so we don't have to gather our tribal thoughts together on this twice a year, every year for the next century.

    (Tradition) "Because we've always done it this way."

    (Me): "Why."

    (Tradition) "Uh...beecause we've always done it this way...?"

    (Me): "I said, Why."

    (Tradition) "Uh...I already told yo..."

    (Me): "WHY."

    (Tradition) "Uh...Umm..."

    Sometimes, it takes mor

  • ...by xkcd [xkcd.com].
  • by DThorne ( 21879 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @08:25AM (#60671542)
    It gets asked, but nobody gives a sane answer. Even the supposed reason for it's introduction has been proven BS, there are plenty of arguments against, almost nobody *likes* it, they either hate it or shrug. I don't buy for a moment that getting rid of it would cause a shitstorm - we seemed to have survived Y2K with our shirts still on, and that was a hard target. This is where conspiracy theories spawn - is there someone behind the scenes making the topic go away every year? I mean, this isn't even *hard*, like why the US insists on sticking with imperial over metric despite the fact it's from their 1700 overlords. Simply. Stop. Doing it.
  • by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @08:34AM (#60671558) Journal

    ...but I do love watching people lose their shit about something so trivial twice a year.

    I'd keep it just for that.

  • The clock is set back to it matches your actual time zone - leaving it an hour out of sync with that makes no sense. That's the offiical time, working hours etc should adapt to that.

    The better question is: "Why do we adjust it twice a year - why do we have daylight savings time?". Here in Norway it's called "summertime", and for me that explains it better. In summer, when the days are are long, it allows us to have even longer and better evenings by shifting the day slightly - it's better to have an hour

  • by 3247 ( 161794 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @08:44AM (#60671584) Homepage

    If we did not "Keep Setting Our Clocks Back an Hour", we would introduce an one-hour offset every year when we set them forward in spring. This would accumulate, and half of the years, the Sun would shine when our clocks say its night.

  • ...why slashdot insists on repeating this conversation twice yearly, as if anybody's opinions have changed since the last time, or the last 30 times...

  • Idiots who will believe anything as long as they don't have to put up with the consequences. Face it, If a senator want to wake up a hour earlier or later no one gets to tell them no. I finally get adjusted to it about the time it changes again. Then suddenly I'm waking up too early or too late. Its a stupid idea that only stupid people approve of.
    • by Gonoff ( 88518 )

      What makes you wake up? If I am to be woken up for work, the alarm on my phone charging beside my bed does it. If the "clocks change" it will wake me up 1 hour earlier or later as needed. If I am not working, I tend to set it for 09:00 and if I wake before that, I relax happily as I don't need to get up!

  • by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @09:26AM (#60671650)
    Twice a year, the same question is asked. How much time is wasted asking that same question over and over?
  • Why not do a brief daylight saving time in the summer when school is out? The sun would come up a bit later. Without the time change the sun would be coming up before 5 here. Kids would get an extra hour of sleep when school starts.

    Or may be business could just move to summer hours and open an hour earlier in the summer.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 01, 2020 @10:00AM (#60671718)

    Over the years it is apparent that most people who have spoken about the twice-yearly clock change oppose it.

    That's because the people who don't oppose it had no reason to "speak about" it. Duh.

  • Not only should we get rid of daylight savings, but also get off the sun's dick. Six 28 hour days is the same amount of time as seven 24 hour days; let's do that.
  • We pine for standard time.;

    Daylight saving was and is an epic fail for anyone with children.

  • We keep it around for the retailers that claim they get more sales. It's time to get rid of it since the most recent studies showed that the change in schedule from the Bush Administration showed that there was no real energy savings from switching to DST.

  • by Vlijmen Fileer ( 120268 ) on Sunday November 01, 2020 @11:35AM (#60671960)

    That time of the year again, when whiners looking for a cause gang up over DST.

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