Trump Ban On Chinese Drone Parts Risks Worsening Wildfires (arstechnica.com) 127
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Financial Times: The U.S. interior department's decision not to buy more drones with Chinese parts has made it more difficult to fight wildfires, according to an internal departmental memo that lays bare one cost of the Trump administration's crackdown on Chinese technology. The memo, which was written by the department's Office of Aviation Services earlier this year, found that by the end of the year, the department will have carried out only a quarter of the controlled burning it might otherwise have done had it gone ahead with planned drone purchases.
The U.S. is experiencing one of its worst years for wildfire outbreaks thanks to hot weather and a lack of firefighters. And while none of those appear to have happened on federal land, government insiders warn the de facto ban on buying drones with Chinese components risks making the situation worse. The internal memo, which was written earlier this summer and has been seen by the Financial Times, warned: "[The department's current fleet] must expand to meet the demand of preventative measures mandated for the reduction of wildfire via vegetation reduction." It found that by the end of the year, the department will only have carried out 28 percent of the controlled burning it could have done had it purchased 17 new drone-based firefighting systems as planned. "David Bernhardt, the interior secretary, announced the crackdown on Chinese-made drones last year amid concerns about the national security implications of flying them over federal lands," the report says. "Bernhardt decided all 810 departmental aircraft should be grounded pending a review into the security risks they pose, given that they all contain Chinese parts."
"Bernhardt did allow an exemption for carrying out controlled burning on federal land, a regular method of halting wildfires in their tracks. But at the same time, Susan Combs, one of his assistant secretaries, said that no new drones should be purchased without her authorization, which she has not since given."
The U.S. is experiencing one of its worst years for wildfire outbreaks thanks to hot weather and a lack of firefighters. And while none of those appear to have happened on federal land, government insiders warn the de facto ban on buying drones with Chinese components risks making the situation worse. The internal memo, which was written earlier this summer and has been seen by the Financial Times, warned: "[The department's current fleet] must expand to meet the demand of preventative measures mandated for the reduction of wildfire via vegetation reduction." It found that by the end of the year, the department will only have carried out 28 percent of the controlled burning it could have done had it purchased 17 new drone-based firefighting systems as planned. "David Bernhardt, the interior secretary, announced the crackdown on Chinese-made drones last year amid concerns about the national security implications of flying them over federal lands," the report says. "Bernhardt decided all 810 departmental aircraft should be grounded pending a review into the security risks they pose, given that they all contain Chinese parts."
"Bernhardt did allow an exemption for carrying out controlled burning on federal land, a regular method of halting wildfires in their tracks. But at the same time, Susan Combs, one of his assistant secretaries, said that no new drones should be purchased without her authorization, which she has not since given."
Cry me a river (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry, but there are five drone companies approved by the Pentagon. STBY, DJI.
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Skydio has commercial level drones also. US company.
I thought DJI was Chinese.
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Drones are not commodity products. They need to be evaluated and specific models authorized for purchase. DJI put in the work to develop them and get them certified.
Switching to another supplier will cost time and money, and is probably pointless because by next year DJI will be available again. Meanwhile your house is on fire.
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Five? Wow! A whole Five. Now I suppose those five meet the requirements in every way including number of drones for a budget?
Yes I do feel for them. When you have a lunatic at the wheel that just puts up roadblocks without any suitable detours then yes, let the tears roll.
Re: Cry me a river (Score:2)
What's with the inflammatory clickbait headlines? (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate Trump, but really? People have been fighting forest fires for decades before drones even existed. Yea, maybe they shouldn't have bought backdoor Chinese shit in the first place? Like, really? If we need one, offer an incentive for domestic drone production/development? Planes and helicopters and other shit still exists. How about military drones? Are they grounded too?
Re:What's with the inflammatory clickbait headline (Score:5, Insightful)
And there are US drone makers. Maybe they should just buy those?
People need to get it in their head that the cheap chinese goods are going away. A new cold war is on and they will be economically isolated. So you know, get used to it.
Ars is a REALLY biased site though so this is well within what I'd expect them to right.
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And there are US drone makers. Maybe they should just buy those?
The problem is not the drones themselves. The problem is the electronic bits, which are all made in Asia, usually China. It's probably literally impossible to build a drone using all-American components today.
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How does the military buy drones without Chinese components?
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How does the military buy drones without Chinese components?
I don't believe that they do. They might buy drones without major Chinese components, like CPUs. But there will surely be minor components made in China, or Chinese territories.
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Its definitely possible and doable to entirely source electronics from US manufacturing. America has a lot of semi conductor fabrication capacity and expertise. It's somewhere China is still trying to catch up in actually. And while Intel has recently lost the crown on having the most advanced fabrication processes to TSMC in Taiwan its still very much alive and they are in many market segments. You also have Global Foundries with multiple high tech fabs in the US as well. And that's just the cutting edge s
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It's all well and good to talk about the main components but there are lots of lower-margin components that aren't profitable to produce in the USA, like caps and diodes and other basic but necessary discrete parts.
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But those can be sourced from other countries that aren't china and domestic manufacturing for the sake of strategic production can easily be set up.
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How does the military buy drones without Chinese components?
I don't believe that they do. They might buy drones without major Chinese components, like CPUs. But there will surely be minor components made in China, or Chinese territories.
I believe you are incorrect. I'm fairly sure they don't buy any major mill-Spec components of any weapons system from China because they are all available from other sources. It costs a bit more at times, but it's totally possible to design and build complex electronics in the USA. But the military isn't all that concerned about price, but they are concerned about tactical advantages, so they don't mind spending some bucks to keep dollars and technology out of China's hands.
Now consumer markets, where pr
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How does the military buy drones without Chinese components?
By specifying the full supply chain be from outside of China in their contracts and paying the increased price. AND requiring that there be a lifetime supply of repair parts procured with the weapon system.
They actually do this for the majority of their procurement contracts for weapons systems. Which is why some of the things they buy are so blooming expensive.
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If America want's a cold war with China it can count the rest of the world out. Obtaining a satisfactory trade deal should be possible without plunging the world into proxy wars again for the next fifty years. Particularly as Trump has been treating the friends of America as enemies during his rule.
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Incorrect, Australia, Japan, South Korea, HK and the UK for example would be in board with that.
True dat!
If for no other reason than many of those countries would benefit greatly as manufacturing jobs currently done in China, showed back up to be done in their countries.
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We are in a cold war with China whether you realize it or not.
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Well than that kinda makes the rest of the world pieces of shit doesn't it. Whatever you think of Trump the whole open China to liberalize them has NOT worked.
They continue to engage in practices like ethnic cleansing , that nobody claim to support anything resembling western values should accept. Its long past time to isolate China again an d demand they reform if they want to engage with the rest of the world. Its long pasts time from a basic security perspective to recognize they are our rivals and to ge
Re:What's with the inflammatory clickbait headline (Score:4, Insightful)
open China to liberalize them has NOT worked
Yes it has, just not as fast as you would have liked. Compared to where they were in the 80s it's done wonders for the average Chinese citizen and their government has transformed their economy from communist to capitalist.
The fact that Trump can even wage a trade war against China is proof of how well it has worked.
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I think the hope is that they would turn democratic, not that they would turn capitalist.
That said, there's still time for it to happen. The worst enemy of democracy is a benevolent dictator, and they'll fail to find the next one eventually.
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Unluckily the opposite seems to be happening with America seeming to be getting less democratic and currently having a President who praises how China is handling the Uyghur's.
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And there are US drone makers. Maybe they should just buy those?
Put up the dollars then. The USA doesn't lose tenders to the Chinese because the local fire department is besties with Xi. If you want to buy USA you better frigging *fund* USA as well. Oh yeah that's right the budget was dropped by $50million last year by the same department which told them their equipment is just about to get more expensive.
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I do buy USA every chance I get. I don't consider myself a hypocrite on this. It can be very hard a times so I'm not always successful. As for funding the firefighters, I don't live in California, my taxes aren't funding them. Personally I find it unwise to build a life in a biome that naturally catches fire every year which is only compounded by human activities. I chose not to live in New Orleans for the same reason. Being below sea level on the coast is not smart.
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I do buy USA every chance I get.
I'm sure you do, and I'm not suggesting you're hypocritical. I'm talking about your government. It doesn't matter where you live, the point is a) fires are getting worse, b) resources are being tightened, and c) the government makes it "better" by additionally removing the option for cheap procurement.
It's not a winning strategy.
Re: What's with the inflammatory clickbait headlin (Score:1)
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For a political party that claims to understand the importance of every vote this year, you sure seem intent on alienating as many potential voters as possible. Thank god itâ(TM)s on /. where hardly anyone will read it
You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that because I think that president man-baby is an idiot and his Trumppublican party is an odious congregation of dumbasses that I therefore must be a Democrat. In fact I despise the corporate Democrats only marginally less than Trump. But that's you trying to pivot this discussion onto a tangent you feel comfortable bogging me down in and I'm not going to do that. The point here is that president man-baby's latest tantrum has stiffed an awful lot of people
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......You do realize that Anti-China policies are also part of the Dem platform right? If you'd let yourself come down from your Trump-hate high every once and awhile you could keep up with the political discourse in America. Nobody likes China and cutting them off has bipartisan support. In fact its becoming a bit of a game in the election on who will be tougher on them.
But hey man you do you. Keep buying goods made from Uyghur slave labor.
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Ah, I see now. Say hi to Pooh Bear for me.
Get-Out-The-Vote campaign for Trump (Score:1)
Every time you see another headline like this, 1000 more Trump voters are created.
At some point no matter how much you hate Trump, you hate the people who hate Trump even more for the stupid nonsense they try to shove down your throat and vote for Trump to spite themt....
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This is true. But the man is evil, and it is only because of spite that he won the first time. There are very few people on this planet that are less qualified
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Re:Get-Out-The-Vote campaign for Trump (Score:5, Insightful)
He is most definitely evil. He cut off a family member who had a medical condition from receiving insurance money for treatment of cerebral palsy [thehill.com] because they spoke badly about him. He also cut off water to an 86 year old widow [veteranstoday.com] so he could steal her land for one of his failed golf courses.
He is also racist [brookings.edu]. Why do you think he does so well with white supremacists?
He is also incompetent. With 16 failed businesses, including losing $1 billion running a casino, and his properties are never profitable. Even now, as he soaks the taxpayers by having the Secret Service buy rental time for golf carts [businessinsider.com] at his failing properties or buying rooms at full rates [theatlantic.com], his golf clubs are miserable failures. In fact, Scotland is considering forcing the con artist to show the source of all the money [bbc.com] he keeps pouring into his failed courses.
So yes, the con artist is everything people say about him. He's petty, childish, a boor, unintelligent,and most of all, a failure. At everything. His own words and actions show his true nature and to deny those words and actions is to deny reality.
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He did stop black people renting his properties though. That's pretty racist.
Evil? It's impossible to know what it in his heart (apart from cholesterol) but the things he does and the effects they have on people, coupled with his knowing about the suffering caused and not doing anything about it does make him a pretty bad person. He probably think's his actions are for the best.
he is racist (Score:2)
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That is just what you have been told for four years
No, that's what we've been told for decades. Trump wasn't born four years ago. Your dilapidated memory combined with your short attention span might be telling you that he was but outside of the US politics bubble he's been known for being an asshole for much longer than that.
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... but if you filter out the propaganda, you'll see the man honestly tries. Often fails, but still tries.
Sure, he honestly tries. Just like how a new-age-voodo-psychic tries to cure cancer using crystals and chanting. It is a very generous definition of "try".
Re:Get-Out-The-Vote campaign for Trump (Score:5, Informative)
He'll happily mock people with disabilities, he'll mock military veterans for getting injured, captured, or killed. His entire election campaign currently seems to be based on encouraging violence to stoke fear, and it is clear that he was prioritising his politcal position over saving lives in his handling of coronavirus. He's been openly racist and sexist. He's bragged about sexually assaulting women and how he could walk into the changing rooms of underaged girls. For what it's worth I wouldn't use the word evil (though it isn't as clear cut as I'd like in a President) but anything short of self-centred immoral mediocrity would be giving him more praise than he is due.
Re: Get-Out-The-Vote campaign for Trump (Score:2)
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and follows his beliefs honestly
So did Ted Kaczynski, so that doesn't tell you a lot.
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TDS is not that, it is the ability to believe the alleged president. He's up to over 19,000 falsehoods since coming into office. Don't drink the bleach, bad for you.
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There are multiple organizations that have done the research and can spell out exactly what makes Trump's statements lies. You could use that information to verify for yourself. But part of TDS is that reporting = fabrication, science = fantasy, expert knowledge = making stuff up, truth = lies, and you can take that telescope and zoom in and out as far as you want in either direction.
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You need to look up deranged. It may be obsessive and angry but it is not deranged behavior; plus it's extra ironic because it's Trump and his supporters who are deranged in the 1st place!
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The dramatic wildfires right now are in California - are they on federal land or state land?
Last I heard California doesn't believe in controlled burning to manage wildfires.
Understand the difference between state land and federal land, this decision only impacts federal land.
Understand that there are US drone makers, officials are choosing to not purchase from them - why?
Understand that the state of California is not subject to the federal de-facto ban on Chinese drone parts.
Understand that California does
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Last I heard California doesn't believe in controlled burning to manage wildfires.
Who told you that? They lied.
Understand that California does not engage in controlled burns.
I live in California and have literally seen the controlled burns.
What I understand from your post is that you are a liar.
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What I understand from your post is that you are a liar.
I don't know about liar. Let's say he/she was just misinformed.
Here is a 2020 article about prescribed burns in California [arstechnica.com], complete with a photo of one being carried out.
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I live in California and have literally seen the controlled burns.
Not only that, but sometimes we make PG&E -- the power company in Northern California -- pick up the bill. (Hey look, privatization!)
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Yes, California does controlled burns for as long as I can remember. And the wildfires are in private, state, and federal lands. So far, the owners of the federal forests have not started to rake them as as advised by the firefighter in chief.
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and in your scenario/analogy,we shouldn't have our lives depending on a chinese drug
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I mean... I agree it's a stupid problem, but 'planes and helicopters' as an alternative to drones? Assuming the budget's already more than enough for that.... hehe sorry that made me giggle, anyway whatcha gonna do: Whip out an American Express and next-day deliver a helicopter and have one of your buddies pilot it?
As for your question about the inflammatory headlines... we're enduring large wildfires and political-halfassery means we don't have full capacity to put them out. That's not actually somethi
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It's been found that the drones from DJI are backdoored to hell and back. They have a China-controlled kill-switch, controls override, video feed access, and firmware change functionalities. You're literally able to use them at manufacturer's sufferance and your ability to use them may be revoked at any time with the manufacturer-approved entities taking complete control at will.
The alternative is helicopters (Score:2)
To
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wow are you brainwashed.
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Do you think Trump knows what he's talking about when talks about "raking" the forests to prevent wildfire?
Not a rhetorical question.
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Planes and helicopters and other shit still exists.
That doesn't help right now if they've already replaced their planes, helicopters, and pilots with drones to save money.
Plus, if they've gotten rid of planes and helicopters, they've probably also decommissioned some maintenance infrastructure too.
It can take a lot of time and money to spin that back up.
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People have been fighting forest fires for decades before drones even existed
Indeed. We also farmed without mechanical equipment and went to work on horseback. But as it turns out the world has changed, not the least of which is continuous downwards cost pressures on emergency services and at the same time a dramatic increase in conditions which cause forest fires.
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Trump Ban on Poisoned Chinese Dog Food Causes Rise in Coyote Attacks on Infants
What is the endgame of these transparently partisan articles? Do they really think that people are so gullible they'll read the headline and say, "I guess Trump is the worst thing in the entire world. Literally Hitler."?
It's all so tiresome.
Just doing it the CCP way (Score:4, Informative)
The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) model for building a strong domestic technology manufacturing base:
1. Ban or tariff to-death your main competitors' products;
2. Brazenly steal competitors' intellectual property;
3. Flood international markets with heavily state-subsidized products; and,
4. Profit!
The Trump administration is starting to implement step 1 of a "do it the CCP way" initiative.
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Re: Just doing it the CCP way (Score:3)
Not disagreeing. Just pointing out. About time we treated China like they treat the rest of the world.
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The US isn't banning Chinese drones so they can start a domestic drone manufacturing industry. Is everyone here an idiot?
True. He's mostly using hate (towards China) as a political tool.
(to gain votes from the xenophobic populace).
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Are you not aware that the Chinese government IS bad and SHOULD BE HATED?
The government is bad, yes, but not the people.
And what Trump's doing won't help with that. It's fomenting hatred towards the people.
Re: Just doing it the CCP way (Score:3)
China is blatantly predatory. Nothing racist or xenophobic trying to stop it from repeatedly kicking us in the nads, WRT trade.
Re: Just doing it the CCP way (Score:2)
Your response is inappropriate.
No, everyone here is not an idiot. Let me help you understand what most others already have.
The original post is not meant to be a literal statement of fact. Instead, it uses sarcasm and humor (oblique reference to South Park underpants gnome episode) to suggest that this action is likely part of a larger Trump Administration policy to counter China's predatory trade practices, a policy with good intentions but one that could probably benefit from more detailed planning.
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>"The Trump administration is starting to implement step 1 of a "do it the CCP way" initiative."
So you could say he is "fighting fire with fire"? :)
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NIce try, the U.S. foreign accounts deficit just manged a brand new high. MAGA.
Re: Just doing it the CCP way (Score:2)
That's a non sequitur. Not about trade deficits. It's all about stopping predatory behavior.
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The Trump administration is starting to implement step 1 of a "do it the CCP way" initiative.
But he isn't supporting it. The CCP didn't just ban or tariff the competition, they setup local systems to provide alternatives, something which Trump hasn't done. Instead, in the face of increased costs for equipment to buy USA alternatives the administration instead cut $50m from the budget. The old "kick them in the balls, and then when they are down kick them in the face for good measure" trick.
Re: Just doing it the CCP way (Score:2)
Nope. China has onerous import tariffs. Trump was simply leveling the playing field when he initially placed tariffs on Chinese imports. China's "alternatives" were often built with stolen IP and heavy state subsidies. This allows China to take over entire industries simply by dumping its products into the marketplace at below-cost prices. This is exactly how China network hardware manufacturers gained large market shares.
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Trump was simply leveling the playing field when he initially placed tariffs on Chinese imports.
You fundamentally missed my point. Yes Trump was "leveling the playing field". But if you're going to level the field you may want to tell your own team first so they don't end up tripping over themselves faceplant the ground while the opposition laughs at you. You know, kind of like the farmers which needed bailing out.
Trump really sucks, man (Score:1)
Not true in California (Score:2)
The U.S. is experiencing one of its worst years for wildfire outbreaks thanks to hot weather and a lack of firefighters
This is not a complete claim. Yes the weather has been scorching hot. Death Valley in California nearly broke its own record and scored 130F on the weekend that fires broke out. But you guys who don't live in CA should know that most of the 600 something wildfires occurred that weekend and it was actually caused by excessive lightning strikes. Thunderstorm is extremely rare in CA but just one night it striked CA over 10K times. The state has never been prepared for such a dramatic change. Along with the u
What National Security Concerns? (Score:2)
Most of this land is federal parks, right? I cannot see any significant national security risk with flying Chinese-made drones over national parks. So buy them, and use them there.
When possible, prefer American-made drones. It is acceptable and even prudent for the government to support American industry when it can.
And require that fire-prevention activity over military bases and other sensitive facilities be performed by domestic aircraft. This is a narrower restriction that should have less of an impact.
Re:What National Security Concerns? (Score:4, Insightful)
I cannot see any significant national security risk
Undermining the US drone industry (which supports military applications). And leaving civilian and public service applications at the mercy of a Chinese instigated parts and support shutdown.
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Stockpile imports, then require all imported software to provide their source code to the government, who will open source it in case the maker decides to pull the kill switch.
Actually now that I think about it, they should just do it for all software, not just those imported from elsewhere.
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Stockpile imports
Which does nothing for our domestic industry. But it helps the Chinese.
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The reason for the stockpile is to prevent China from attacking us with trade. With enough stockpile, any time they try to make things more expensive or cut it off from us, we'll have time to redevelop our own industry, or find it from another country. That means China could only "win" if they always produced those things cheaply, but that's exactly what we want.
This is what economists call competitive advantage. Our domestic industry will shift towards areas where we're more productive. Then we use that to
But.... but.... (Score:2)
Isn't that the orange man's entire line of reasoning?
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Why not? Russian rocket engines are still allowed.
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Ill bet Russian drone parts are A-OK to buy.
LOL.. The Russians have NOTHING to sell...
In case you didn't know, Russia, as a country, is a rusting burned out hulk left over from the Soviet empire. Economically they are destitute and it's getting more desperate by the day. Their military is a rusting relic, barely able to stand up and slowly decaying, still dangerous, but they won't be able to sustain that. They have no cash industry, except for being the natural gas supplier for eastern Europe and with energy prices in the basement, it's not enoug