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Trump Blew Up More Than Just TikTok and WeChat (bloomberg.com) 145

Posted by BeauHD from the cause-and-effect dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: U.S. President Donald Trump's decision to ban dealings with ByteDance, owner of video-sharing sensation TikTok, appears to codify what his administration has already been warning. A second edict targeting messaging app WeChat and its parent, Tencent, seems weirdly overdue. The executive orders issued by the White House go beyond stopping average Americans from becoming unwitting spies for the Communist Party through their postings and data. The implications could hurt not only the Chinese targets, but the U.S. companies they work with, including Apple and Alphabet's Google.

Though TikTok and WeChat have been getting all the recent attention, the orders state that American companies cannot work with ByteDance or Tencent (though an unnamed U.S. official later stated that Tencent transactions were still OK). That clarification notwithstanding, the wording of the orders does imply that regardless of intention such bans could extend further, to include Americans advertising on dozens of products offered by either Chinese company, or to selling them cloud-storage services, or perhaps the most nuclear option: distributing their apps, even within China. [...] Even though Chinese smartphone brands dominate their domestic market, iOS and Android remain the dominant platforms and Apple and Google cover almost the entire global ecosystem with their respective app stores. If they can't do business with ByteDance, for example, even after a TikTok spin off, then the Beijing company might be unable to distribute its own apps, even within China.
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Trump Blew Up More Than Just TikTok and WeChat More

Trump Blew Up More Than Just TikTok and WeChat

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  • In summary (Score:5, Funny)

    by biofunnel ( 7090297 ) on Friday August 07, 2020 @07:12PM (#60378747)

    China: TikTok!

    U.S.: Tick, tock.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by NotQualified ( 981391 )

      China: TikTok!

      U.S.: Tick, tock.

      Exactly! We have met the enemy and he is us

      • We're are own enemy for letting the Communist Chinese getting this far for infiltrating our behemoth social media companies advocating censorship at every level, or for pulling the plug now on companies that let foreign influencers make decisions that don't have America's interests at heart??

        • Re: In summary (Score:2, Insightful)

          by stevenfuzz ( 2510476 )
          No, I think he meant having a president that makes EOs like he thinks we are a dictatorship. China is a distraction.

          • No, I think he meant having a president that makes EOs like he thinks we are a dictatorship

            You're like a decade late with that commentary.

          • Comment removed based on user account deletion

            • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

              by Anonymous Coward

              Why do you care what China does? Trump certainly doesn't. He told Xi personally he though it was the right thing to do.

              In fact the leaders Trump admires most are China, Russia, Saudi-Arabia and Turkey. Think about that for a moment...

          • Re: In summary (Score:4, Interesting)

            by arglebargle_xiv ( 2212710 ) on Saturday August 08, 2020 @04:46AM (#60379639)
            And that's why WeChat, and everything else, won't get hit. TikTok was slapped because it was used to prank Trump. The evil-Chinese-whatever spin is just that, spin. The lesson is, don't run a social media app that a bunch of kids can use to make the President of the US look like a fool. That's the President's job.

        • Re: In summary (Score:4, Insightful)

          by rtb61 ( 674572 ) on Saturday August 08, 2020 @12:48AM (#60379349) Homepage

          What do you mean, just like your typical US corporation that puts profits first and the interests of the people, what the fuck, are you joking, interests of the people FUCK OFF, profits, profits, profits, dummy.

          The USA is losing the economic war with China and is doing silly shite that makes it worse. Provides greater incentive for the Government of China to declare war on M$ and Google and any other US tech corporation.

          Do you know what China has to do to kick the USA's arse all over the global map. Offer better free software, with the source code and then sell proprietary games and other apps. Done and finished, MS and Google are as customer abusive as it gets, they are sitting ducks right now and Trump is setting them up as victims of an economic war against China and of course Russia and do no forget India all three will push theirs and use Trump as an excuse to kill competition from US businesses.

          The only winners in this game, are us, cool have fun idiots.

          • How cute, you actually think the same government that disappeared the people who uploaded Covid data to Github would allow large scale open source projects to exist and be sold by CCP controlled corporations.

          • Do you know what China has to do to kick the USA's arse all over the global map. Offer better free software, with the source code

            lol

            Wake me up when that happens.

          • Do you know what China has to do to kick the USA's arse all over the global map

            Free or closed IP, China will have to (re)create a lot of stuff they are currently relying on. Such as the app stores of Android and iOS. And developing their own microprocessors so they don't need Intel, AMD, ARM and Qualcomm anymore.

            I think the Chinese are now serious about this. Thump made it clear enough to them that they can be cut off from might

            • Sorry, hit submit instead if preview...

              Trump made it clear enough to the Chinese that they can be cut off from western technology at a whim. It will take them a few years, but I expect that they will see that technological independence effort through.
              After that, we may see western and Chinese tech drifting apart, each doing their own thing.

          • Can't tell if you're feeding a troll or toying with a sincere fool, but your comment deserves favorable moderation and has none. It's obvious that part of the trolls' destructive gaming of Slashdot involves moderation abuse, but can they be playing both sides? Not just giving out lots of discussion-busting mods on one hand, but on the other hand somehow preventing you [not just rtb61] from getting the positive moderation you've earned?

            However my own response is mixed agreement. I think you are mostly advoca

        • We're are own enemy for letting the Communist Chinese getting this far for infiltrating our behemoth social media companies advocating censorship at every level, or for pulling the plug now on companies that let foreign influencers make decisions that don't have America's interests at heart??

          Yep.

          If it were a smaller, less scary country we'd have invaded it by now and made it a democracy like we did in Vietnam. Those were the days of real leaders in the Whitehouse!

      • Maybe it's just me, but...

        What's the problem with the Chinese government having access to a billion videos of teenage girls dancing to the Laffy Taffy song? How does that affect national security?

    • Stevie Ray and Jimmy Vaughan: Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock people....

      The Vaughan Brothers - Tick Tock [youtube.com]

      What a corny song.

      One night while sleeping in my bed I had a beautiful dream
      That all the people of the world got together on the same wavelength
      And began helping one another
      Now in this dream, universal love was the theme of the day
      Peace and understanding and it happened this way       ....

      People of the world, all had it together
      Had it together for the boys and the girls
      And the children of the world look forward

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gwolf ( 26339 )

      Geopolitics and rivality aside, the USA looks every day more as a fascist dictatorship, where the Great Leader gets to choose what its citizens -sorry, its underlings- think, do and use, and less a plural, democratic country where the best option wins by its own merits.

  • so what? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 07, 2020 @07:15PM (#60378753)

    Tencent seems to be a major investor in a variety of tech/gaming companies, but those companies are valuable in the eyes of investors so when one group of investors leaves, another will swoop in. Doesn't seem like China has a lot of leverage here.

    And anyways, why are people so much more concerned about what a foreign government knows about them, then their own government, whose jurisdiction they fall under. Americans got a clear view of what their government was doing with the AT&T and Snowden leaks, but somehow, it's China they are more worried about? A country that can't affect them?

    China can't arrest you on American soil just because you said Xi looks like Winnie the Pooh. Get your fucking priorities straight.

    • I think the idea is to start leaning on Chinese tech firms. Someone on RT made a good point that all US tech firm apps are banned including all Western news apps. So this is just another case of China wanting us to do as they say and not as they do.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

        Here's the thing though, we live in a free society.

        Letting the guy in charge tell everyone what messaging app they can use and therefore who they can talk to is antithetical to our ideals. If our freedoms disappear the moment they becomes inconvenient, then how are we any better than China?

      • Why are we aping China all the sudden?

        This is the rule now? POTUS can just decide to block websites and apps if he feels like it?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Tencent invests when it wants to distribute those games and movies and TV shows in China. If they stop being distributed there it will be a huge financial loss for the Western companies making them.

    • I'm not worried that Xi will come to my home and arrest me for calling him Winnie the Pooh, and I'm not worried that Trump will come to my home and arrest me for calling him an orange, baby-handed cheeto man. What I am worried about is a foreign power having a ton of influence and control over what can be said here in the US because of how much of the media they control, which means they have a ton of control and influence over all of our public discourse. This isn't an irrational fear - it's happening dail

  • For those still stuck in the 1950's Red Scare (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fermion ( 181285 ) on Friday August 07, 2020 @07:27PM (#60378771) Homepage Journal
    For those who still believe that their data is hidden from the Communists or Socialists or White Supremacists, or just everyday terrorist, here are the facts. All this stuff is for sale. California earns $50 million every year selling thier citizens data to whomever wants it. That is valuable information to the terrorist.

    The NRA sells their list of gun nuts to anyone who wants it. That is valuable information for invasion, which neighborhood requires a surgical missile strike to remove the enemy.

    If it can't be bought from Google or Facebook or Experian, these communists have more bored hackers than we do, especially the males. Due to one child policy, there are million of young men with nothing to do but hide in their bedroom in their parents house and hack into commercial databases.

    For Government or private firm with sensitive information, they should not use any unsecured service, be it Facebook or Google or Zoom or Tok Tok for any thing to do with sensitive information. That is just common sense. For the common person, it is your choice to tell the world you will be on vacation for a month, or your kid is alone waiting for someone to pick them up at the park at 3:30 every Tuesday, or download a random app that tracks you exercise path precisely every day with times where you are most secluded for attack.

    But it is not the communists. It is everyone that is collecting data and not securing it or treating it as a profit center instead of secure information. There was an episode of the Rockford Files was back in the 1970's the explored this. A US group was setting up a centralized database of US citizens. They question was what were the risks involved. Too bad we never really has a debate over that question. It just happened.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by fermion ( 181285 )
      And I just scrolled down and noticed that all the DNA sequencing that US citizens voluntarily gave away has been bought by a venture capital firm with offices in Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore, Beijing, Won't that make it convenient for the communists to buy the generic profiles. It may be that in the US they are based from access from the data, but what is stop them form shipping drives to Being and selling them to the communists.

    • For those who still believe that their data is hidden

      The suspicions (well-founded suspicions) against TikTok et al is not merely privacy-violations. They are suspected and credibly accused of being tools of the foreign adversaries, used not so much to collect data (except, maybe, to sell it to help finance the operations), but to manipulate public opinion.

      Which manipulations they've been doing since 1960-ies too — spending more money on fostering various "peace" movements [medium.com] in the West, than they gave Ho Chi Min.

      I'd very much the services like Mail.ru and Yandex to be added to this list. And Telegram — investigated.

      The NRA sells their list of gun nuts to anyone who wants it. That is valuable information for invasion, which neighborhood requires a surgical missile strike to remove the enemy

      Whether they sell the information or not, police departments simply having the lists of gun-owners will make the data available to any successful invader. "Red Dawn" (the original), I believe, was warning against just such a possibility.

      • LOL, you say it as if "manipulating public opinion" isn't what the US is doing. Remember when the US tried to tell us war crimes are good?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        • Neither of your links have anything to do with war crimes. Was your comment just a horrible troll, or did you have some kind of point to make?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mi ( 197448 )

          isn't what the US is doing.

          Yes. We have guns too — and we shoot them at enemies once in a while. Does that mean, we must — just to be fair — allow enemies to shot their guns at us?

          • No, shoot all you can. Just don't pretend you're any different from them - you're the same scum.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by mi ( 197448 )

              Just don't pretend you're any different from them.

              Where we prevailed — Japan, South Korea, Western Germany — people became wealthy and free within a generation, maybe two. Where we failed — North Korea, Eastern Germany, Vietnam, Cuba — millions and millions continue to live in dire poverty and under murderous oppression.

              you're the same scum.

              Fuck you, asshole.

              • Mwahahahaha. You're truly stupid if you believe this crap, and really ignorant about postwar history, too.

                Fuck you, asshole.

                Fuck me with what, you dickless eunuch?

      • Which manipulations they've been doing since 1960-ies too — spending more money on fostering various "peace" movements in the West, than they gave Ho Chi Min.

        Yeah really, man, only those dirty commies want peace and equal rights for everybody.

        • I think the point of his comment was to show that those dirty commies are misusing people's desire for peace in order to push their own agenda.

          • And that agenda was -wait for it - peaceful coexistence. A war, even a cold one, is expensive.

            • And that agenda was -wait for it - peaceful coexistence

              That's adorable. Yes, I'm sure that the nation which was pushing anti-vietnam war sentiment while keeping all of eastern Europe under it's thumb just wanted peaceful coexistence. Just like their funding of Western anti-nuclear sentiments while building up their own nuke stockpiles clearly shows a desire for disarmament.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mi ( 197448 )

          only those dirty commies want peace and equal rights for everybody.

          Peace is achieved through victory. The commies — dirty and otherwise — demanded we achieve it by surrendering.

          “Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one. In practice, 'he that is not with me is against me'.”

          — George Orwel

      • For those who still believe that their data is hidden

        The suspicions (well-founded suspicions) against TikTok et al is not merely privacy-violations. They are suspected and credibly accused of being tools of the foreign adversaries, used not so much to collect data (except, maybe, to sell it to help finance the operations), but to manipulate public opinion.

        I wonder what else manipulates public opinion?
        Ads, influencers, TV shows, movies, documentaries (including the made up shit like Ancient Aliens), music, shortly put any wide reaching information out there.
        Everybody tries to sway public opinion to their side, whichever that is.

        The best weapon against manipulation is called NOT BEING STUPID. A weapon most people unfortunately lack.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mi ( 197448 )

          A weapon most people unfortunately lack.

          And so the President steps in and cuts off those manipulators he can legally cut off...

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        The suspicions (well-founded suspicions) against TikTok et al is not merely privacy-violations. They are suspected and credibly accused of being tools of the foreign adversaries, used not so much to collect data (except, maybe, to sell it to help finance the operations), but to manipulate public opinion.

        So the same thing Facebook is up to? Okay, time to ban Facebook.

        Weird that Trump would start with TikTok and WeChat though, considering how much he complains about Facebook and Twitter being biased against him.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by mi ( 197448 )

          Weird that Trump would start with TikTok and WeChat though, considering how much he complains about Facebook and Twitter being biased against him.

          They are American companies, which fact protects them from such bans of American President. Had he really been a Hitler-sympathizing dictator (like FDR [mises.org]), he would've found a way to shut them down.

          TikTok is not an American company, so the US Executive can do (almost) what he wants.

          • Had he really been a Hitler-sympathizing dictator (like FDR [mises.org])

            Nowhere in that Mises piece does it say FDR sympathised with Hitler or describes him as a dictator. In fact the piece says

            Roosevelt preserved civil liberties, while the dictators did not.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by mi ( 197448 )

              Sorry, I meant Mussolini — a different Fascist...

              'I don't mind telling you in confidence,' FDR remarked to a White House correspondent, 'that I am keeping in fairly close touch with that admirable Italian gentleman'"

              • Sorry, I meant Mussolini — a different Fascist...

                Yeah, it's really easy to get Hitler and Mussolini mixed up. Even their names sound alike.

                'I don't mind telling you in confidence,' FDR remarked to a White House correspondent, 'that I am keeping in fairly close touch with that admirable Italian gentleman'"

                He did say that...in 1933, when much of America and the rest of the world liked Mussolini. That quickly went south two years later when Mussolini invaded Ethiopia, and it was gone entirely when Italy militarily aligned itself with Germany in 1939.

                Bu

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by mi ( 197448 )

                  Yeah, it's really easy to get Hitler and Mussolini mixed up. Even their names sound alike.

                  Names? Names aren't relevant — their Fascism was quite similar, though, as were their dictatorial traits. Fuhrer-lead glorious Collective above the stupid Individual!

                  in 1933, when much of America and the rest of the world liked Mussolini. That quickly went south two years later when Mussolini invaded Ethiopia

                  Ah, please, who's ever — in the US or in Europe — cared for Ethiopia?

                  and it was gone entirely

                  • Names? Names aren't relevant

                    Says the guy who says FDR was a fascist dictator and Hitler sympathizer and linked to an article that doesn't support his claim. Oh wait! I meant Mussolini!!! LOL. Sure, pal. Names are irrelevant.

                    BTW, guess who else praised Mussolini? Winston Churchill. I guess that makes him a fascist sympathiser in your book.

                    Ah, please, who's ever — in the US or in Europe — cared for Ethiopia?

                    Western democracies? [wikipedia.org]

                    The invasion of Ethiopia and its general condemnation by Western democracies isolated Mussolini and Fascist Italy until 1938

                    Just because you may not care about Ethiopi

                    • Re: (Score:2)

                      by mi ( 197448 )

                      Says the guy who says FDR was a fascist dictator and Hitler sympathizer and linked to an article that doesn't support his claim. Oh wait! I meant Mussolini!!!

                      My accusations against FDR stand perfectly well with "Hitler" replaced by "Mussolini". Your objections collapse and crumble. Therefore, my argument is valid and your attempts at rebuttal — aren't.

                      It DOESN'T say "Roosevelt preserved civil liberties, while the OTHER dictators did not."

                      Roosevelt's civil liberties-record is better than that of the eu

                    • My accusations against FDR stand perfectly well with "Hitler" replaced by "Mussolini".

                      I really don't care that much about your accusation that FDR was a dictator, Mussolini-sympathizing or otherwise. Yeah, I think it's a pretty brain-dead thing to say, but what I really posted about was your idiocy in thinking your source backed up your ridiculous claim. Your article simply doesn't support your accusation that FDR was a dictator, period. Furthermore, anyone who confuses Mussolini for Hitler is either intellectually deficient or mentally impaired. Or both.

                      Your objections collapse and crumble. Therefore, my argument is valid and your attempts at rebuttal — aren't.

                      HAHAHA! Good one! And thanks.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Your post is actually hilarious. Do you really think that the US is in danger of being invaded and the only thing protecting it is gun owners?

      US conservative conspiracy theories are getting worse, I swear.

      • you know the war in Afghanistan has been going on for NINETEEN YEARS because of that, right?

        An armed aggressive populace drains invaders dry over time. We will be bleeding our economic capital into Afghanistan until my grandkids have grandkids, and all because the population will _never_ stop taking pot-shots at us.

    • The US should ban all data about Americans from being transmitted outside the US and impose large fines on violators. Leave people free of course to transmit their own data willingly with full disclosure. If a company wants to do business in America, then locate here. And if a company wants to collect data then detail what they are collecting.

  • Again (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NoNonAlphaCharsHere ( 2201864 ) on Friday August 07, 2020 @07:28PM (#60378775)
    This administration is trying to turn the upcoming election into some kind of referendum about China (China BAD!!!), instead of a referendum about Trump (Trump defy BAD BAD China!!!). Every day they ratchet up the chest-thumping rhetoric and the tough-guy theatre.
    Turns out, all they're doing is running scared.
    Because they're incompetent losers.
    Tired of "winning too much" yet?

  • Trump is declaring no freedom of speech. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by zephvark ( 1812804 ) on Friday August 07, 2020 @07:59PM (#60378845)

    If it's not his news, it should not be yours. He's currently showing a willingness to damage mail-in voting in favor of crowding you in with his maskless MAGA hats, risk of contagious disease notwithstanding.

    He doesn't care if the people who vote for him die. His time is clearly limited. You will keep the populist demagogue in power. You must!

    This screwball orange-faced comb-over apparently has appeal with people who have been screwed over too many times but, he is far from their savior.

  • Thanks for doing it in such a hilarious slapstick way.
    It's almost as if Admiral Benson from Hot Shots is running your country. :)

    No hard feelings.
    We'll recover the wasteland when you're ... done. :D

  • Where is the fucking jurisdiction? (Score:5, Informative)

    by humankind ( 704050 ) on Friday August 07, 2020 @08:27PM (#60378907) Journal

    Can someone explain to me how a US president can arbitrarily decide any company is no longer to allowed to do business in the country?

    Do we have checks an balances or WTF?

  • Executive orders (Score:3)

    by linuxguy ( 98493 ) on Friday August 07, 2020 @08:27PM (#60378911) Homepage
    I did not realize that a president had this much power. You're all OK with this, yes? When the next president decides to do whatever they want, through executive orders, you will all be OK with it, right?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by awwshit ( 6214476 )

      I made my kids uninstall that crap, after my wife had allowed it, months ago. No, I don't like the executive order but fuck tiktok, fuck all social media for that matter.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Twinbee ( 767046 )

        fuck all social media for that matter.

        You're posting on one now. And we appear to have less censorship than most other social media sites.

        • Would you miss this latest incarnation of Slashdot if it went away? I certainly could live without it. Slashdot peaked a long time ago. Honestly, I don't feel like Slashdot influences anyone - most around here seem to stubbornly hold their positions no matter what. You don't hear about Slashdot influencing elections - temporarily overloading web sites (and maybe not so much anymore) and trolls are the worst that Slashdot can offer. The audience for Slashdot is pretty small too.

          Teaching an adversary wha

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Cederic ( 9623 )

      You're a bit late to the party.
      https://www.federalregister.go... [federalregister.gov]

  • How about going after OS providers (US ones) that allow these companies to collect data?

    • How about going after OS providers (US ones) that allow these companies to collect data?

      It's okay when US companies run roughshod all over your privacy. Here, have a mobile OS maintained by an advertising company, some "smart speaker" listening devices sold and maintained by a major online retailer, etc...

      It's the same mentality that makes abusing executive power to push an agenda perfectly acceptable, so long as it's your favored political party that is doing it.

  • Yeah well thats what happens when you let american companies be the gatekeepers of the internet. Do business with america at your own peril.

  • What’s the “security” concern around videos of teenagers making 30-second dance clips with filters anyway?

  • If the US starts acting that way, China will just (possibly with the agreement of the WTO) invalidate any patents, trademarks, copyrights, etc. that they need for use within China. That they definitely can do. Whether they could export the works, though, would require the agreement of the WTO...which the US has already declined to support. And China would have a very strong case given the extortionate threats that have already been issued.

  • Trade protectionism will, long term erode US supremacy, as well as invite retaliation. Donny, has just told China all your mobiles and all your Chromebooks belong to us. Do as we say, or we will stop you selling any mega-trend value added product(s). To a lesser extent, India just told China to F-off too. Google spyware under CLOUD is OK, but yours is not. Game over China. Also we may discriminate and block our capital markets too. China's best solution is to mandate not just open source software by also pa

  • "Trump blew up" is all we wanted to have, you could have kept the rest.

  • And this is authorized by ... ?

    Subject line reuse.

    It'll be useful long after the election, no matter who wins in 2020. And 2022. And 2024. And ...

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