Russia Will Ban the Issuing and Selling of Cryptocurrencies (forbes.com) 61
A senior Russian official says an upcoming digital assets bill will ban the issuing and selling of cryptocurrencies.
Forbes reports: "We believe there are big risks of legalizing the operations with the cryptocurrencies, from the standpoint of financial stability, money laundering prevention and consumer protection," Russia's central bank head of legal, Alexey Guznov, told Russia news agency Interfax this week in comments translated to English via Google. "We are opposed to the fact that there are institutions that organize the release of cryptocurrency and facilitate its circulation," Guznov said, adding the coming bill "directly formulates a ban on the issue, as well as on the organization of circulation of cryptocurrency, and introduces liability for violation of this ban...."
However, Guznov admitted that Russia would not be able to completely ban bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. "Nobody is going to ban owning cryptocurrencies," Guznov said, adding people will not be punished for owning crypto "if they made their deal in a jurisdiction that does not prohibit that."
Forbes reports: "We believe there are big risks of legalizing the operations with the cryptocurrencies, from the standpoint of financial stability, money laundering prevention and consumer protection," Russia's central bank head of legal, Alexey Guznov, told Russia news agency Interfax this week in comments translated to English via Google. "We are opposed to the fact that there are institutions that organize the release of cryptocurrency and facilitate its circulation," Guznov said, adding the coming bill "directly formulates a ban on the issue, as well as on the organization of circulation of cryptocurrency, and introduces liability for violation of this ban...."
However, Guznov admitted that Russia would not be able to completely ban bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. "Nobody is going to ban owning cryptocurrencies," Guznov said, adding people will not be punished for owning crypto "if they made their deal in a jurisdiction that does not prohibit that."
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At least Russia has *this* right.
Exactly.
Ban Cryptocurrency, and the entire Ransomware money laundering network evaporates!
buy buy buy (Score:3)
Re: buy buy buy (Score:2)
Why the fuck do I want a currency that's got no fucking worth? [moviequotedb.com]
Re: buy buy buy (Score:4, Interesting)
Any currency is worth what you can buy with it. Period.
Can you buy anything with bitcoin? Well, yes. Not easily in general commerce, but at the very least, you can buy other currencies with it that are in wider circulation.
I once heard a currency expert on NPR say that bitcoin is a collective hallucination that some abstract concept has a value. He then quickly added that any currency is a collective hallucination that some abstract concept has a value.
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He then quickly added that any currency is a collective hallucination that some abstract concept has a value.
And unfortunately. that truism even extends to the fiction of so-called "intrinsic value", like with "precious" metals and "precious" stones.
Any time there is barter, the buyer's "currency" only has as much value as the seller is willing to believe it has at the moment of a transaction.
Re: buy buy buy (Score:2)
Example: gold is usable in electronics. Diamonds have numerous industrial applications. Rubies, too. A piece of clear quartz you can find walking on a hike might be shiny and pretty to look at on your shelf.
A bitcoin
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One might argue that the intrinsic value of something is the value that remains after you discount any market-related value. For example, the intrinsic value of gold per ounce would be what it costs to prospect, mine, and refine it. The intrinsic value of a stock option is the difference between the stock price and the strike price of the option. The intrinsic value of bitcoin is what it costs (in electrical energy) to create it and maintain its blockchain history.
The market-portion of something's value mig
Re: buy buy buy (Score:1)
The reason this is not so is because you can't convert your bitcoin back into the effort required to generate it aside from selling it to a greater fool (as in Greater Fool Theory). If a bitcoin could convert directly into electricity or some other kind of "work" then yes it would have that value.
Outside finding another buyer there's just nothing to do with a bitcoin.
Even a dollar bill will still have value after the
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you can't convert your bitcoin back into the effort required to generate it
You can't convert gold back into the effort required to mine it either.
Re: buy buy buy (Score:1)
Gold is pretty
Gold is made into jewelry
Gold is used in industry
Gold used to be used in dentistry (maybe it still is? My dentist doesn't)
Bitcoin is not pretty
Bitcoin is not made int9 jewelry
Bitcoin is not used in industry
Bitcoin was never used in dentistry
Gold has intrinsic value.
Bitcoin does not.
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Any time there is barter, the buyer's "currency" only has as much value as the seller is willing to believe it has at the moment of a transaction.
The thing is, currency, even fiat currency, isn't much different from anything else people might trade. Almost all value comes from human preference. This is obvious in the case of, say, a painting, but even for food or building materials demand is dominated by what people expect/prefer over "could possibly be eaten" or "could possibly be used to build a house".
Most of the value of gold comes from the fact that most humans think it looks nice, and most humans value social signalling and status signals. S
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Terry Pratchett captured this extremely well with his book "Making Money", about the creation of paper currency in the essentially medieval economy of Discworld. The story captured both the concepts and the abuses of paper currency: the principles apply very well to cryptocurrencies.
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The thing is, currency, even fiat currency, isn't much different from anything else people might trade. Almost all value comes from human preference.
That is exactly what I was trying to say; thank you!
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Mostly agree, but gold is not that rare - its a controlled supply chain to ensure about 1% and only that amount of new gold is minted each year, to protect the existing gold holders value. It definitely does have social value in much of the world. Gold coins with a Queen on it are legal tender, so its de facto and de jure money.
> For BitCoin to lose its value, it would merely need to stop working to sneak wealth across national borders, or buy illicit goods.
Uhh, Bitcoin is traceable and is used much much
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Mostly agree, but gold is not that rare - its a controlled supply chain
Bullcrap.
Perhaps you are thinking of diamonds and the De Beers cartel.
Nothing like that exists for gold.
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Uhh, Bitcoin is traceable and is used much much LESS for sneaky stuff than the USD
Even so, it's early growth, the only reason it got above $10, was the purchase of illegal stuff. It's still used that way quite a bit, that's just dwarfed by the main use - capital flight. The fact that it's a really bad idea never stopped anyone, especially not anyone who's buying something that's a really bad idea in the first place.
Bitcoin and other cryptos are used for legit trade of real goods and services every day.
Sure, and a Bitcoin might be worth a whole dollar thanks to that use! I hear someone bought a pizza once, but I'm not sure you can still do that. That's right up there wit
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You can ban the conversion of crypto currencies into real currencies, ban those financial transactions and you zero out the imaginary advertising generated based on the illusion of rarity and worth created by limited mining. Once you ban the mass handling of transaction you force it underground and it losses it's entirely delusional marketing panache and the value is crippled. It becomes legally risky to advertise crypto currency services in a country and they will target them for prosecution for offering i
Well, sort of... (Score:2)
Right! The Russian government or other oligarchs can't get their beak wet on crytocurrency money laundering, Only the regular kind.
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It's easier to trace if you don't care about it being traced. As with conventional currency, there are countermeasures that can be used against tracing if you want to put in the effort and lose a little money in overheads. With conventional currency, there is the classic briefcase-of-banknotes. With bitcoin, you usually bounce it through a conveniently complex intermediary in a non-subpoena-able jurisdiction, like a gambling site.
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I'm sure they're still allowed to liquidate stolen cryptocurrency!
Looool! (Score:3)
Calling Putin Christian...
Hilarious!
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Well, he does get to choose to Russian Pope
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How would that work? (Score:2, Interesting)
Given that, with end-to-end encryption, to a government, cryptocurrency activities are equivalent to: "Hey, I'm sending you this file / network packet of random data."
Where both ends might be servers in another country, merely controlled by a Russian citizen, unbeknownst to the government, and with no way to find it out.
Empty posturing is all this is.
Besides, it's only cryptocurrencies that allow generating imaginary and non-earned wealth (like with "mining"), that are a problem. (And people managing it, wh
They can stop the exchanges from useing banks / ca (Score:5, Interesting)
They can stop the exchanges from useing banks / cards in Russia.
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What's to stop people from laundering (once again) through some other exchange that is allowed to operate in Russia?
I get it. It's whack-a-mole for Russia. But people wouldn't do this if it weren't possible for the mole to avoid being whacked.
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That's exactly the point. They have to go through some exchange that is controlled by Moscow!
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Are there _any_ cryptocurrency exchanges that are not actively involved in money laundering drug trafficking, slavery, extortion, murder, and theft of cryptocurrency from their clients? The leadership of Silk Road was specifically convicted of laundering money for heroin traffic, and of hiring a hitman to kill partners. These sorts of convictions of the leaders of the necessary crytocurrency exchanges themselves.
Is there _any_ cryptocurrency exchange that declines to handle transications explicitly involvin
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Few bank founders actually attempt to murder their partners as Russ Ulbrict of Silk Road did. All in the USA are compelled to report various transactions of over $10,000, which makes large scale money laundering more traceable, and most cooperate with subpoenas for their client's bank records.
Are there _any_ cryptocurrency exchanges that do not deliberately solicit criminal transactions? Can you name even one that cooperates with subpoenas to provide their client's transaction records, including those trans
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Your questions could be asked of any currency exchanges (without the 'crypto') as well, and the answer for most of them will be similar, including for the ones involving the US dollar.
But it is the "blind debtor", stuffing your money into some digital glory-hole aspect that makes this particular method of transacting "business" particularly and even uniquely-suited for nefarious purposes. Not that there's anything fundamentally wrong with that.
But...
It is one-particular transaction that is honestly worth eradicating Cryptocurrency from the Universe: Ransomware.
If Cryptocurrency went away tomorrow, there would still be:
1. Drug Trafficking.
2. Child (and Adult) Sex-Trafficking.
3. Convention
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Ransomware.
I wonder how many of these were Russian operations. And now will be sitting on piles of Bitcoin that they can't move. Of course, they can always solicit partners outside Russia to help them liquidate funds. Be prepared for the e-mails:
Hello. Permit me to introduce myself. I am Ivan Dumbassky and I have recently received a large sum of Bitcoin which I have sudden need to liquidate. I am seeking partner in my new found wealth which you may become for an advance fee of .....
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But there would NOT be:
Ransomware.
It simply would evaporate into nothingness overnight; or very nearly so.
There would still be ransomware, but it would demand payment in cryptocurrency that isn't being supported any more and would direct you to a page that 404s, like the last "Your machine has been locked by the FBI" one i saw.
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The gov says no.
Any trying legally gets reported and detected.
Tax collection and banks have to be aware of sudden unexpected cash payments, bank account use.. To report sudden wealth not from a wage, approved method of moving wealth around..
Just like banks all over the USA have to report attempts at structuring. ie they all have to report financial crimes.
ie work, inheritance, investments is ok, . "cryptocurrency activities" is not.
The "unbeknownst" part st
Re: How would that work? (Score:1)
In the US the FBI takes over the web sites and all users become known and fucked.
In Russia they see your packets going to a known crypto site, kick in your door, break your jaw, array you, take all your shit, and send your sorry ass to Siberia.
You think in either case a major government is going to say, '"oh gosh this nerd has encrypted his packets to this illegal site, so I guess we'll just have to move on! Nothing we can dooooo!"? Re
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I guess you have not TFA. You can do whatever you want with crypto, except exchanging it back to FIAT. And that part is at least partially enforceable.
So that's why the price recovered (Score:1)
Uses of cryptocurrencies (Score:3, Insightful)
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Putin probably lost a fortune (Score:2)
and he's pissed that someone got his money. No more!
With Russian gangsters out of crypto, the price will probably drop further or remain low until they decide to get back in.
A little odd for Russia to be doing this? (Score:2)
from the standpoint of financial stability, money laundering prevention and consumer protection,"
Since when did Putin's government and the Russian oligarchs care about that? Powerful people in Russia that have tried to clean up their country have ended up penniless, dead, or both.
What's their real angle?
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OK FSB36.
What's old is new again (Score:4, Interesting)
When my mother was a child growing up in Soviet Russia, one of her neighbors was arrested and sent to Siberia because they had "old" paper money in the house. That currency had been "replaced" by new government-issued currency. It's not like the person could go out and spend the old money because nobody would take it.
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Well duh (Score:1)
AGAIN Russia ?!? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is what, about the 5th time in a decade that Russia has banned, threatened to ban, unbanned and rebanned crypto. You'd think they could make up their minds...
Good luck with that. (Score:4, Informative)
Governments everywhere hate cryptocurrency because, like the Internet, they really can't control it.
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Yes. Governments tend to hate uncontrolled and unaccountable money presses. There are some good reasons for that.
Countries who PRO crypto will be the WINNERS (Score:1)
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And you really believe that, right? How many BTC do you own?
Just in time... (Score:2)
For their economy to collapse due to COVID-19