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Electronic Frontier Foundation The Courts Google Oracle The Internet United States Technology

EFF Files Amicus Brief In Google v. Oracle, Arguing APIs Are Not Copyrightable (eff.org) 147

Areyoukiddingme writes: EFF has filed an amicus brief with the U.S. Supreme Court in Google v. Oracle, arguing that APIs are not copyrightable. From the press release: "The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today asked the U.S. Supreme Court to rule that functional aspects of Oracle's Java programming language are not copyrightable, and even if they were, employing them to create new computer code falls under fair use protections. The court is reviewing a long-running lawsuit Oracle filed against Google, which claimed that Google's use of certain Java application programming interfaces (APIs) in its Android operating system violated Oracle's copyrights. The case has far-reaching implications for innovation in software development, competition, and interoperability.

In a brief filed today, EFF argues that the Federal Circuit, in ruling APIs were copyrightable, ignored clear and specific language in the copyright statute that excludes copyright protection for procedures, processes, and methods of operation. 'Instead of following the law, the Federal Circuit decided to rewrite it to eliminate almost all the exclusions from copyright protection that Congress put in the statute,' said EFF Legal Director Corynne McSherry. 'APIs are not copyrightable. The Federal Circuit's ruling has created a dangerous precedent that will encourage more lawsuits and make innovative software development prohibitively expensive. Fortunately, the Supreme Court can and should fix this mess.'" Oral arguments before the U.S. Supreme Court are scheduled for March 2020, and a decision by June.

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EFF Files Amicus Brief In Google v. Oracle, Arguing APIs Are Not Copyrightable

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  • What YEAR IS THIS?
  • by BitterOak ( 537666 ) on Monday January 13, 2020 @08:43PM (#59618022)
    I certainly hope that the Supreme Court rules that APIs are NOT copyrightable. This would also have an impact on the GPL, effectively eliminating the distinction between the GPL and LGPL, at least when it comes to libraries. As long as you don't redistribute GPL'd libraries with your code, then you shouldn't have to license your code under the GPL even if you are using GPL'd libraries since the only thing you are distributing is code which makes use of the libraries' APIs. Essentially GPL licensed libraries would effectively become LGPL'd.
    • by jrumney ( 197329 )

      Not really. It allows you to make an API compatible library under a different license so that you are not tied to the GPL'd library. But if the GPL'd library is the only option for running your program, then what you have is a derived work, whether you distribute the library or not.

      • by BitterOak ( 537666 ) on Monday January 13, 2020 @09:06PM (#59618090)

        But if the GPL'd library is the only option for running your program, then what you have is a derived work, whether you distribute the library or not.

        But that's exactly the question that is being decided in this case. Is a work a derived work cause you are using its APIs?

        • by lokedhs ( 672255 )
          The next step is then to designate commandline arguments. error message formats, and general structure of a software program as part of its API's.

          Once that is done, GCC can argue that Clang is a derivative. But wait, that would make GCC a derivative of the C compiler in the original Unix.

          • by guruevi ( 827432 )

            And this is the root of the problem, what is an API and how far do we go before we say it's copyrightable. If you declare API's public domain, then all that is left is a specific implementation of an API which could be indistinguishable from another implementation. Especially in Java and other programming languages, there's only so many ways you can represent a string in memory on x86 or do a comparison. For programming languages, the API is the language so if all API are public domain you can't copyright a

            • And this is a problem how, exactly? If there is only one possible implementation of an API then both the API and its implementation are purely functional elements completely lacking in creative expression, and thus not the sort of thing copyright was ever meant to cover.

    • I certainly hope that the Supreme Court rules that APIs are NOT copyrightable.

      You better make your peace with the fact that APIs are copyrightable because the Supreme Court already declined to hear this argument once, letting the Federal court's ruling stand. What does this mean for you? If you use an API, make sure you have a license to use it

      This would also have an impact on the GPL, effectively eliminating the distinction between the GPL and LGPL, at least when it comes to libraries.

      No, the LGPL is a license that allows you to do certain things, and would not be impacted by this (briefly the LGPL means you can link to the library without your own code becoming GPL/LGPL. That will not change if the court rules that APIs

      • You better make your peace with the fact that APIs are copyrightable because the Supreme Court already declined to hear this argument once, letting the Federal court's ruling stand.

        Did you miss the part where oral arguments are scheduled for March? The Supreme Court has agreed to hear this case. That's why it's a case that the EFF can file an amicus brief on.

    • No, this wouldn't affect the distinction between the GPL and the LGPL at all.
      GPL code will still be licensed as GPL, LGPL code will still be licensed as LGPL.
      You are still bound to the license of the code you're linking to, because you used it.

      What this means, is that if you re-implemented GPL code interfaces and licensed it as BitterOak 1.0 License, then the copyright holders of the original code cannot sue you.
      • You are still bound to the license of the code you're linking to, because you used it.

        No. As GPL proponents are always pointing out, the GPL is a redistribution license, not a usage license. As long as you aren't redistributing the GPL libraries, or any executables which CONTAIN portions of those libraries (as opposed to simply dynamically linking to them at load time), then the only hold on you is your code's use of the APIs through this dynamic linking. If the APIs aren't copyrightable, the GPL effectively becomes LGPL.

        • No.

          Yes...?

          As GPL proponents are always pointing out, the GPL is a redistribution license, not a usage license.

          An oft-quoted oversimplification does not license terms make.

          The argument goes, that linking to a GPL work (dynamically or statically) constitutes a derivative work (since your work is a combination of GPL code and your own)
          The API is not in question.
          And of course, the oft-quoted oversimplification is still right, in that if you don't ever distribute your work- then you can do whatever the hell you want with it.
          I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong in this instance.

  • I copyright APIs with the letter E in them!

  • Has Oracle ... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PPH ( 736903 ) on Monday January 13, 2020 @09:03PM (#59618082)

    ... paid Dennis Ritchie (or his estate) royalties for each use of the main( ) API used in their C programs?

  • by sgage ( 109086 ) on Monday January 13, 2020 @09:13PM (#59618108)

    ... I hate Google, and I detest Oracle.

    Is there a way for them both to lose?

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Solandri ( 704621 )
      I kinda want Oracle to win, and Google is forced to pay them. And then Intel and AMD hit Oracle with a quarter trillion dollar lawsuit for back-pay on using the x86 and amd64 instruction sets without a license. Oracle settles (spending all the money they got from Google and then some). By which point Congress realizes just how stupid copyrighting APIs is so amends copyright law to explicitly exclude APIs. And Intel and AMD use the money they got to improve processor speeds.
      • by lokedhs ( 672255 ) on Monday January 13, 2020 @11:39PM (#59618354)
        That's not what would happen though. All that really would happen is that the tech giants will sign cross-licensing deals that protects them from any further lawsuits. They can then spend even more effort using these new copyright restrictions to squash any small upcoming companies.
      • by gtall ( 79522 )

        At this point, Congress would just cave to the company lobbying. The biggest companies can afford the most effective lobbyists. The biggest companies are in the business of squishing any small upstart companies and any more roadblocks the biggest can throw at the upstarts will be welcome from the biggest's point of view.

    • by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Monday January 13, 2020 @11:01PM (#59618294) Journal

      ... I hate Google, and I detest Oracle.

      Is there a way for them both to lose?

      Instead of deciding based on picking teams, maybe think about the issue at hand. If you're not a programmer, maybe it's not so clear... but if you are, it should be pretty obvious that alllowing APIs to be copyrighted will do incredible damage to the software industry and help basically no one.

      • by Knightman ( 142928 ) on Monday January 13, 2020 @11:57PM (#59618376)

        ...and help basically no one.

        Except the lawyers...

      • They are both spending huge amounts of money on lawsuits. That's a loss for both.
      • it should be pretty obvious that alllowing APIs to be copyrighted will do incredible damage to the software industry and help basically no one.

        It won't be too bad. The key is to be sure to get a license to any API you use, and all the major ones are licensed in a reasonable way (including Java! The only reason Google got sued is because they didn't want to use the GPL for their implementation of Java).

        • it should be pretty obvious that alllowing APIs to be copyrighted will do incredible damage to the software industry and help basically no one.

          It won't be too bad. The key is to be sure to get a license to any API you use, and all the major ones are licensed in a reasonable way (including Java! The only reason Google got sued is because they didn't want to use the GPL for their implementation of Java).

          As others have pointed out, if APIs had been copyrightable in the 80s, Compaq could never have created a PC-compatible computer. Consider the implications.

  • I think all the confusion comes from terminology. APIs are often called "software interfaces", but they are no more made out of software than "electrical connectors" are made out of electricity, or water pipes are made out of water. The terminology has confused the courts - I hope the Supreme Court fixes this.
    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      If you consider an isomorphic mapping equivalence, then anything that implements a software interface must contain that interface. I suppose you could argue that electric signals and magnetic fields aren't characters, but I don't think many would agree with you.

  • Kindly refer to this timely article written by Tom Wolfe in the July 1986 edition of Popular Mechanics on pg 127 : https://bit.ly/371JKWN [bit.ly] The gist, the patent system was originally conceived to encourage creativity, to help people share ideas and develop them. Now it is used to stifle ideas, for big companies to steal them and inhibit its development. It comes down to, who can afford the most lawyers. Until patent law gets a major overhaul, developments in technology will get strangled.
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Sure, but we can draw some paraelels...no? Can we perhaps agree that both are abused and stymie creativity rather than encourage it?
        • by iroll ( 717924 )

          At that point you might as well say "the legal system in general is abused by the powerful," to which I say "no shit."

          • Both deal with ideas, who can market them and to what extent. Whether it is a piece of software or an idea for an invention, it is about who gets to control it. The way you phrase it, you are putting a murder trial and a divorce case in the same arena. The point I am making is around the realm of ideas, not the court system in general.
  • by presearch ( 214913 ) on Monday January 13, 2020 @09:32PM (#59618162)

    A man that represents his shelf has a food for a client.

  • Ultimately what many may not consider is that the core API would be eligible for copyright protection as would any library or sub-component. In other words we're talking about the foundations of OSes and programming languages themselves, both standard APIs and ABIs.

    int main(const int argc, const char **argv);

    Who holds these copyrights? How long until they expire? Is it more than a century? APIs were never considered eligible as they are not creative works. So from the very beginning these foundations were b

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      I've got to disagree with one of your points. SOME interfaces MAY not be creative works, but almost all of them are. They are, however, functional requirements, and thus were never considered copyrightable.

    • Replying to self to elaborate a bit; A good example of copyright eligibility is a telephone number as I used in my description. Originally the choice of the format of such a number is indeed creative... something like 3 digits, hyphen, four digits (xxx - xxxx). The sole thing about that choice which makes it creative however is "3 hyphen 4" which isn't considered substantial. Now you might make up such a number, take 867-5309 for example. This number itself is also not substantially creative enough to warra

    • It's not about a function signature, description, the idea of implementating the Fibonacci sequence in a recursive way, etc.

      It's about everything from the implementation (twice over, as Google was using JIT style VM bullshit, not compiled code) to the description, organization, examples, etc. Google copied EVERYTHING, as they always do.

    • int main(const int argc, const char **argv);

      Who holds these copyrights?

      In the case of the C standard library (a language itself isn't copyrightable), it would be ANSI or ISO, right?

    • by gtall ( 79522 )

      "Documentation or record of fact is not eligible for protection. An example of such records of fact is a list of telephone numbers, names and addresses"

      I don't know if you intended this but to my mind this is nearly an accurate description of interfaces. The only thing I would add is that their can be multiple entities behind the "telephone numbers, names and addresses", but I don't think that detracts from the meaning much.

  • So this is where we are then? Oracle are still trying to monetize their fading language by patent trolling and charging for the JDK.
  • API's are kind of like verbs in language. The word walk for example means to move. Taken alone, the word means little, but combined with other types of words you can make a sentence to express something. So much like you cannot copyright a word in the dictionary, you should no be able to copyright API's. But this is the US justice system, where money can buy nearly anything. Take the guy on Nor Cal's coast that is still not letting people have beach access thru his property.
  • An individual API is not copyrightable. This is like an individual dictionary entry or an individual recipe. The problem is a collection of APIs, or a recipe book or a dictionary is copyrightable. As much as I hate it, I don't see any possible way that the entire Java API can't be copyrightable.

Understanding is always the understanding of a smaller problem in relation to a bigger problem. -- P.D. Ouspensky

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