Ask Slashdot: Can A Lack of Privacy Be Weaponized? 77
Slashdot reader dryriver asks a scary what-if question about the detailed digital profiles of our online and offline lives that are being created by "hundreds of privately owned, profit-driven companies operating with no meaningful oversight."
Digital profiles are just a collection of 1s and 0s and are wide open to digital tampering or digital distortion. You could easily be made to appear to have done just about anything from visiting questionnable websites on the dark web, to buying things that you never actually bought or would have an interest in buying, to being in places in the physical world at given dates and times that you would never actually visit in real life. In other words, your digital profile(s) may make you appear to be a completely different person, doing completely different things, from who you objectively are in actuality.
For now, these digital profiles mostly sit in data centers around the world, and try to serve ads to you. But what happens if someday your digital profile is weaponized against you?
What happens in a situation where you need to prove that you are a morally upright, law-abiding person, and your digital profile(s) are accessed, and claim that you are anything but a moral, law-abiding person? What happens if these digital profiles are someday routinely examined by courts of law to determine whether you are a person of good character or not?
What happens if one of your digital profiles is purposely leaked into the public realm someday, and your "digital mirror image" did all sorts of crappy things that you, in real life, would never do?
For now, these digital profiles mostly sit in data centers around the world, and try to serve ads to you. But what happens if someday your digital profile is weaponized against you?
What happens in a situation where you need to prove that you are a morally upright, law-abiding person, and your digital profile(s) are accessed, and claim that you are anything but a moral, law-abiding person? What happens if these digital profiles are someday routinely examined by courts of law to determine whether you are a person of good character or not?
What happens if one of your digital profiles is purposely leaked into the public realm someday, and your "digital mirror image" did all sorts of crappy things that you, in real life, would never do?
Social credit (Score:5, Informative)
In China this is not a theoretical question anymore...
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The answer is definitely yes - it can be weaponized, and already is because ads are a form of weapon application.
This is why we all need adblockers and filters for trackers.
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Privacy v Public reputation v Re:Social credit (Score:3)
I guess this reply is starting as a criticism of your FP effort, but it seems the moderators have already criticized you far beyond my poor ability to add or detract. (Actually you have a still hidden "Informative", but those 9 words aren't.) Don't know why, but I have no ability to give mod points. (Or maybe the reason is my propensity to criticize the moderation?)
Starting my analysis with privacy, both sides should be considered. There's too much focus on the "bad secrets" you want to keep hidden, but you
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That's an easy example on the negative side, but the positive side is that I'd simply prefer to spend more of my time with nice people. (But perhaps it would be dangerous and delusional to pretend the bad people have stopped existing?)
And not just that, but blatant wishful thinking. You would simply do away with people who make you feel uncomfortable? Says a lot about you doesn't that?
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That's an easy example on the negative side, but the positive side is that I'd simply prefer to spend more of my time with nice people. (But perhaps it would be dangerous and delusional to pretend the bad people have stopped existing?)
And not just that, but blatant wishful thinking. You would simply do away with people who make you feel uncomfortable? Says a lot about you doesn't that?
I don't think that I'd give much weight to dimensions related to "comfort", but I think that's a matter of personal priorities and you [any reader] should be free to decide otherwise. (Are you [SCVonSteroids] projecting your own narrow-minded preferences?) I rather like new ideas and novelty, even though such ideas often make me uncomfortable. I'm not saying that I welcome discomfort, but that I doubt I'd filter against it. Of course it depends how it's measured. Perhaps a "polite" dimension? If so, I might
That would be a 'duh'. (Score:2)
Re: That would be a 'duh'. (Score:1)
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dryriver is captain clickbait. Check his history.
Re:That would be a 'duh'. (Score:5, Informative)
Anything (Score:2)
The idea is to be proactive about it (Score:5, Interesting)
People are putting their life online. That's the problem here. You're using it wrong. What you should be doing instead is to create the persona you want to show the world and feed the social profile that image. I have no idea why people are honest about their online profiles, mine is anything but me, it's, if anything, an idealized me.
Social media are for advertising. It's time we start to notice that we can use them to advertise, too. Advertise yourself! Create a better version of "you" to show to the world.
Of course, if anyone actually asks me if anything of it is true, I will respond truthfully. No, it's mostly Photoshop and made up bullshit. But people don't ask, that's the fun part. People still believe what they see online. Yes, even companies. They're so used to people actually posting truthful information about themselves on those pages that the idea of someone using it as a propaganda tool for himself doesn't enter their mind.
Re:The idea is to be proactive about it (Score:5, Insightful)
That's not really the issue here. You can fake a profile to put your best foot forward, or change it to an unreal version of yourself, or do anything you want with regards to your online personna. The issue is what if someone CHANGES it to your disadvantage? Doesn't really matter how clever you are if someone else has access and tweaks it to THEIR advantage instead of yours.
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Pretty scary thought, people believe the bullshit I write on there, of course they'd believe the bullshit anyone writes on there.
Re: The idea is to be proactive about it (Score:2)
Who cares? We are entering the age of AI generated BS anyway. Anyone with DB access at any of these ad companies can change it right now to reflect whatever they want on you. These are not trustworthy institutions. The idea that will lose power is that someone in a position to monitor you and make reports on you is that useful. Want to know what small data looks like? Here are 4 bytes: f=ma. Here are 6: e=mc^2.THAT is what real power looks like, these little truths that never fail, and the structures that c
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People are putting their life online. That's the problem here. You're using it wrong. What you should be doing instead is to create the persona you want to show the world and feed the social profile that image.
In the old pre-digital world there were lies, damn lies and resumés. Think of your digital profiles as being your resumés in the context in which it is relevant. Be creative, in all the ways you were used to being creative in the world of employment.
One example of profile creativity would be managing time gaps in, say, a dating profile. Do you want a two-year dry spell to be visible to prospective mates? You have to spin that somehow: inflate the three one-night stands into a gap-bridging relation
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The biggest problems are where there's an expectation of privacy but there isn't.
There are a lot of parties that can remove your anonymity to violate your privacy and this is a problem where we don't have rights.
If we believe for example in an unpopular opinion or even a fact then people can if they know your identity go after you.
I've seen some wars break out on places that are anonymous and if just one party in those online holy wars over who has the
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Didn't work for Jimmy Fartwell, and he not only knew the writer of the graffiti but the magazine in which it was published ...
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WHAT IF SOMEONE LIES ABOUT YOU?!? â"this is a concern, but not something to lose sleep over. If someone weaponizes your online profile and claims you are this, that, or the other, did this, that, or the other, and it is not so, you reply PROVE IT.
Moving right along...
Except in many cases you might not have the opportunity to prove it. Prospective employer sees it? Moves right along to the next candidate. Prospective date? Ick! Moves right along to the next candidate.
Do you think that they will ask you if what they read about you online is true? Do you think they'll believe you when you say it's all lies?
Libel laws clearly apply here (Score:2)
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That only works if you have laws working for you. As soon as the use of the information goes on government level then you are on your own.
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While libel and fraud laws may apply, enforcing them is extraordinarily difficult. Enforcement is actively and passively hindered by the FBI Computer Crime lab, which only collects information and consistently refuses to do anything with it. I base this on personal experience, reporting 3 incidents in the last 3 years with no FBI followup against the perpetrators.
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Assuming you can identify the person responsible and they're in a compliant jurisdiction.
laws in practice (Score:1)
Stalkers (Score:4, Insightful)
Let's say you post on a social media platform. Let's say you've developed some enemies (look at the anti-fans some of the posters here have developed). Someone can dump your information publicly, or threaten to.
Look at all these data aggregators that show so much of your personal information when you type your name into Google.
What about all that location information you're giving up to Google and Apple and other companies?
What happens if you don't want randoms or actual enemies to have this information? Seems to me your information is valuable, "digital oil", and you should have control over reasonably-non-public portions of it.
Suffer or hack it. (Score:2)
Should any digital system be used against you, you have two options: suffer the effects of it being used against you or hack it. Hacks may be indirect (e.g. social reform to have it disabled entirely) but ultimately it is the target.
What happens if a date says "#metoo" about you? (Score:4, Interesting)
Poisoning a reputation has been part of human society since they first existed. Even _primates_ engage in destroying each other's status, effectively their reputation, through deceit. And various criminal defendants are rewarded for turning in other criminals, rewarded with money or reduced sentences, so it's only logical that some will take advantage of poor security to plant evidence against the people they turn in.
Ask anybody... (Score:1)
... whose name is on the âoeno fly listâ, with no idea why.
Re: Ask anybody... (Score:1)
(Sorry about the quotes, apparently Safari on the iPad does this automatically.)
Very easy to do. (Score:1)
A number of years ago, there was a Web based BBS which was specific to a local scene. One guy got the admins mad, so the admin edited a few of his posts, culiminating with a death threat to people, as well as some fake messages. The guy got arrested for death threats, and convicted, because the jury thought nobody can do a SQL query and edit stuff.
Fucking with someone's profile is easy to do, and can easily be used for this.
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A number of years ago, there was a Web based BBS which was specific to a local scene. One guy got the admins mad, so the admin edited a few of his posts, culiminating with a death threat to people, as well as some fake messages. The guy got arrested for death threats, and convicted, because the jury thought nobody can do a SQL query and edit stuff.
[citation needed]
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sometimes with minor consequences https://www.cbsnews.com/news/p... [cbsnews.com] https://eu.stargazette.com/sto... [stargazette.com]
sometimes a bit more (note that its possible to construct convincingly sounding voices using software today) https://www.justice.gov/usao-m... [justice.gov] https://www.jpost.com/Breaking... [jpost.com]
sometimes even sending emoji can get you 6 months https:/ [sophos.com]
Re: Very easy to do. (Score:2)
There is a difference between "can easily happen" and "has happened".
'hacking' of electronic evidence while in custody (Score:1)
The government's prosecution of Larry Benedict, 45, is unusual because all the evidence in the case is electronic, and all of the evidence appears to have been allegedly tampered with or otherwise altered after it was in government custody.
An analysis by Stan Kremen, a computer forensics specialist hired by the defense, concludes that "extensive changes were made to the Bolander hard drives for quite some time after the computer was in custody." That evidence--an exchange of letters signed "LB"--is key to the prosecution's case against Benedict. Kremen says that fax software was added, image directories were modified, Adobe Photoshop was used, and so on, according to the directory tree--as recently as May 1995, when the computer was in police custody. The government doesn't deny it. In a motion filed last December, prosecutors say that investigators had no spare computers to use for an examination.
https://www.cnet.com/news/elec... [cnet.com] Not to mention, the hard drives in this case were badly stored
Prosecutors stored 27 U.S. Postal Service mailbins in the soggy basement of the Geneva, New York, post office. After a few floods, the computers had rusted and the disks were encrusted with a filmy white substance.
Lot of bullshit going on in this story.
What happens in a situation where you need to prov (Score:2)
What happens in a situation where you need to prove that you are...
If that happens, at least in the US, we're already fucked, because we've then already lost one of the most fundamental tenets of our legal system, which is the presumption of innocence unless proven guilty. This critical, because you can't prove a negative - it must be up to the accuser to prove that you DID do something. I think everyone is well aware that digital data is trivially tampered with, so unless there's some corroboration or other evidence, such accusations will (hopefully) go nowhere in the l
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Mostly reacting to ask about the apparent typo in your sig.
However on the topic, I think we are largely in agreement, though I don't see any approach to a solution in your comment. In my earlier reply, I mentioned changing the default ownership of private personal information to the person. "Possession is 9 points of the law." Or at least it used to be.
New problem of our technology is that it has become almost infinitely easy to copy and propagate any person's private information. The solution approach (on
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Typo? What typo? :) (thx, it's been there a very long time, and I never noticed that)
Yeah, I agree with you that I didn't really offer any solution, as I don't see an easy one. It was more a consolation that I don't think it's going to be a significant problem only because I don't think most people will be all that motivated to ruin someone else's reputation for no clear reason - at least, not the people that have access to that data.
You mention "changing the default ownership"... I agree that eventually
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I don't know if it will help, but let me try to put it in a historical perspective. I'll use the time frame of the (American) Constitution because it's still pretty influential and I have to give them credit for the cleverness of their wording.
At the time they were writing the (American) Bill of Rights, it was pretty hard to access your personal information. The best source was you, and the 5th Amendment comes right out and says you don't have to give it up if you don't want to. They even needed justified w
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Anyone who has the skill to do this sort of data manipulation seems unlikely to target a random shmoe.
No, but they'll get paid handsomely to simplify it down to click-to-hack software. Where do you think the term script kiddie comes from? The vast majority of "hackers" aren't the same geniuses capable of writing the software they're running. They're not hackers but it's cool to be called such.
You are naive, friend.
What if you lack "A Lack of Privacy"? (Score:3)
Suppose the airport inspector or the traffic cop wants to check on you -- and there is no record. No social media account, no law enforcement encounters, no DNA record or fingerprint on file ...
Such a person can look very suspicious to certain authorities. Most authorities. There's nothing more terrifying than a totally undocumented person in the midst of civilized society.
Open a Facebook account and make sure that it makes you look like an ordinary person.
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Then someone else changes it to make you look like a non-ordinary person. That's the issue.
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This is a serious problem. Just creating a neutral account won't work because it will look "too neutral". "what is he hiding...".
With lots of machine learning systems scanning for the unusual, it will become difficult to fake being "normal" without actually being normal.
On the other side, since people are unlikely to have useful access to their own data, if their "lifestyle" has been hacked they may never know. They will just fail to get some jobs that they otherwise might have gotten, and receive more p
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Forgive my bluntness and crudeness, but: Fuck that shit sideways with a rusty chainsaw! Would rather cut my nuts off with a dull spoon than do that.
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cesspool of corruption and violence
I would like you guys to try to keep things clean and sane so things like that don't grow out of proportions. Also its pretty sad that they are happening in Brazil and other countries. How did it came to that?
signed. just A Concerned guy
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I am happy for you to demonstrate such deep understanding of how things work and i am very glad you have found such an elegant and simple solution https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]. Bye now, i don't want you to miss the next episode of Ow my balls.
China has already weaponized their surveillance (Score:3)
Ask the Chinese how they like their new social credit system. We need to be careful. Western politicians are learning from China and thinking of new things they can get away with.
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Yep, America would never have no fly lists, credit list, sex offender lists, lists of criminals including some pretty harmless activities or being forced to plea bargain, lists of those who can't purchase a gun etc.
Note that many of those lists are way too easy to get on. Who knows why someone isn't allowed to fly, sex offenders who peed or traded photos with there 1 year younger girlfriend, not being in debt to prove you can pay your bills, various laws that are targeted against various minorities and who
Psychological Harm (Score:2)
In 2017, Michelle Carter was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter after she sent a series of text messages to her 18-year-old boyfriend, urging him to kill himself. To be fair, that was a slightly different and blatant case, but there will certainly be others were actions taken - perhaps without full intent - will have an unexpected result and
Do it first (Score:2)
Simple answer: do it first and do it right, in ways that let you prove that what's in your profile is false. Don't make it obvious it's you doing it, of course, but arrange it so that if anyone does try to do this to you you can pile on so much proof that what's in the profile is false that you completely demolish the credibility of that profile. Start doing it early enough that by the time you need it there's a solid real history behind things you can use to counter any attempt to claim you poisoned your o
Can stupid headlines be weaponized? (Score:1)
Yes. The answer is yes, identity theft can be weaponized, and not only has it been weaponized already, it has been weaponized against me directly, and I've been complaining about it for years now, not that anyone cares or will listen except the trolls they're still paying to stalk, harass, libel and steal from me. If you're just waking up to the possibility now then it is probably too late to save you or your social ties from being fully mired in this mess. Your family is in on it. Your friends are in o
The exception that proves the rule (Score:2)
Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no.
This one ... it's a definite "yes".
Sure the answer is Yes, but (Score:1)
Re: Yes and it's already been done to me, but... (Score:2)
Facebook makes surgical precision nearly impossible as its focus is on making everything front and center or deciding for you which audience should see what. There is no easy segregation of social circles to enable tailored communication that each particular audience would understand.
There are layman's terms, technical jargon, pop cultur
Already being done. A lot. Not much you can do. (Score:3)
I have a friend that is a small celebrity (appears on TV shows as a consultant). He also had an online presence, including a blog. He is clearly jewish (among other things he wears religious symbols as jewellery).
An anti-semetic has created several user names based on his full name plus the words "TheReal...." and then started spouting nazi garbage, under his name. They also copied his photo from his blog, to make it look like him.
Scared the crap out of him. He has taken all reasonable steps, even hired someone to buy up domain names and user names. Cheap to do each one, but expensive as hell to get most.
When he complains to the companies that accept "TheReal...." username, they kill the ones he mentions after a couple of days. And sometimes kill his actual accounts as well.
Worse, new, slightly modified usernames pop up immediately. (The_Real...).
First governments, then organised crime (Score:2)
Yep, I can see governments, especially security agencies, under certain circumstances would want to discredit individuals & sources of information in the media. At the moment, they use legal allegations & prosecutions, often sexual misconduct, aimed at investigative journalist, human rights lawyers, & political campaigners in order to distract the media away from the information itself, e.g. Julian Assange. If they can further manipulate people's online digital traces & plant long histories
Sure (Score:2)
Just prepare massive automated identity theft and you can essentially have a modern society grind to a halt.
Wrong question to ask. Here's the right ones: (Score:2)
2. What makes anyone think we'd know it's been weaponized?
Author is missing the point, twice (Score:3)
> For now, these digital profiles mostly sit in data centers around the world, and try to serve ads to you.
That ship sailed a long time ago. This research by the FTC from 2014 already showed that databrokers make more money from 'risk management' products than advertising.
https://www.ftc.gov/system/fil... [ftc.gov]
What's more, the problem is not purposefully manipulating these profiles, it's the way machine learning is used to put them together in the first place. Databrokers derive and infer new data from your raw data, and this process gets things wrong a lot. It's basically making educated guesses about people.
Cambridge Analytica was an example of both of these things. They created psychological profiles based on social media data. These profiles were wrong a lot, but right often enough to be very valuable.
That's the issue with profiles made through machine learning: they are too powerful and too wrong at the same time. It's like deciding who can get a job or cheap insurance based on horoscopes.
Captain obvious? (Score:2)
Seriously, do we really need to study this type of crap?
Didn't Sandra Bullock make this movie? (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure Sandra Bullock starred in a movie that asked this very question. It ended with her having to literally burn a building down to escape.
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Fear Will Keep the Local Systems In Line (Score:2)
Grand Moff Tarkin was correct then and is correct now. As was Jeremy Bentham with his panopticon prison concept.
That is, people will change their behaviors if they believe they are being watched. Even if only because we are all complicit in certain socially constructed prohibitions that personally we may personally partake of in private (think of "icky" things like picking one's nose/ear/face), our behavior is modified by the fear of being publicly shamed for doing something generally thought to be unaccept
Defective data (Score:2)
Google thinks I visited a dog park about an hour away from where I live. I could understand if maybe I visited somewhere directly adjacent to it, but I was nowhere near it.
I had a bunch of pictures taken in Newfoundland marked as in Norway because Google trusted the ship's WiFi over the GPS satellites for position.
I recently had taken pictures that Google decided were in Istanbul instead of Canada. No idea why.
I imagine that there's a lot of bad data out there.