Amazon's Ring May Also Be Working On Facial Recognition (buzzfeednews.com) 71
"More than 10 million Ring doorbells have been installed worldwide, and BuzzFeed News found evidence that the company is working to develop facial recognition technology for its devices in Ukraine."
An anonymous reader quotes their report:
While Ring devices don't currently use facial recognition technology, the company's Ukraine arm appears to be working on it. "We develop semi-automated crime prevention and monitoring systems which are based on, but not limited to, face recognition," reads Ring Ukraine's website. BuzzFeed News also found a 2018 presentation from Ring Ukraine's "head of face recognition research" online and direct references to the technology on its website...
In November 2018, Ring filed two patent applications that describe technology with the ability to identify "suspicious people" and create a "database of suspicious persons..." In December 2018, the Information reported that Ring gave its Ukraine-based research team access to customer videos in order to train image recognition software, potentially for use in Ring cameras. This use of customer videos is, in fact, allowed by the company's terms of service, which says that Ring has the right to unilaterally "access and use your User Recordings" for "developing new Products and Services" -- like facial recognition... As BuzzFeed News previously reported, Ring's terms of service gives the company an irrevocable, perpetual license to the video content users post on Neighbors.
Buzzfeed News also quotes their op-ed last month by the deputy director of the digital rights group Fight for the Future.
"We are on the verge of an unprecedented increase in state and private spying that will be built in plain sight."
In November 2018, Ring filed two patent applications that describe technology with the ability to identify "suspicious people" and create a "database of suspicious persons..." In December 2018, the Information reported that Ring gave its Ukraine-based research team access to customer videos in order to train image recognition software, potentially for use in Ring cameras. This use of customer videos is, in fact, allowed by the company's terms of service, which says that Ring has the right to unilaterally "access and use your User Recordings" for "developing new Products and Services" -- like facial recognition... As BuzzFeed News previously reported, Ring's terms of service gives the company an irrevocable, perpetual license to the video content users post on Neighbors.
Buzzfeed News also quotes their op-ed last month by the deputy director of the digital rights group Fight for the Future.
"We are on the verge of an unprecedented increase in state and private spying that will be built in plain sight."
Are we scared yet? (Score:3, Insightful)
Or do we have to continue?
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We have to continue. Given sufficient time, resources, and stupidity, all possible things will be explored and experienced.
That's the school of hard knocks for you. Do it the easy way? Never!
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The security is a lie.
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Scared of...security cameras? You guys DO know that security cameras with facial recognition already exist, right? Right?
Re: Are we scared yet? (Score:5, Insightful)
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You already embraced it. You carry a mobile phone, right? You use the Internet, right? I have no idea what you are talking about in terms of security cameras. They have been around for decades. You are suddenly worried about it now because there is some $99 crappy quality camera that you are aware of? Very weird. Unless you are proposing that security cameras be banned, you have no point.
Re: Are we scared yet? (Score:2)
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Re: Are we scared yet? (Score:1)
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"You responses donâ(TM)t seem very bright, the problem is that modern technology security cameras, for instance, are now cheaply networkable to the stateâ(TM)s security ecosystems making 1894 scenarios possible"
Yes, they are listening in on people using those carbon mic telephones. You don't have to turn the crank!
The Pony Express is up to no good. I know they are going to the local railroad station transcribe my letters via telegraph to the government!
Re: Are we scared yet? (Score:2)
Ordinary citizens walk downtown _without even wearing a suit of armor_, therefore they _obviously_ don't care about getting mugged.
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Yes, they do.
But they don't exist (well, cloud-doorbells aside) on 10's of millions of private front porches.
I'm in the market for a video doorbell and, as great as the feature set for Ring is, they're a hard no from the start. Even ignoring the comically high monthly fees for what you're getting...no freaking way I'd ever give Amazon or any other data-collection company a 24/7 view of my front door.
Does anyone seriously believe Amazon WON'T start using info from that to coordinate/learn/sell to your behav
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The part that was controlled was what finally got onto the local news.
Now everyone can see who is doing crime in ice parts of a city.
Crime in less nice parts of a city.
Crime in a city.
The press has lost control over what to show.
Inner crime can be seen for what it is without political spin.
So now the world is told the collection system is "bad" for what it shows.
Seeing who is doing the crime and what criminals do to nice homes is
Grand Designs (Score:3)
I was watching an episode of Grand Designs (with Kevin McCloud) - there's always some nice design and architecture there, but this episode had a shot of their doorbell (yes, a Ring, seen for maybe 1-2 seconds).
Whatever Ring are doing, they're very good at it. Why they're doing it is a more complex subject, I suspect.
Either way, this was inevitable - your video is (probably) already being run through facial recognition, but you're not getting the benefits. At least if they go public, you're going to get some "feature" out of the invasion of your entire neighbourhood's privacy.
Statistical bias. (Score:3)
Would not work in Europe (Score:2, Insightful)
There are so many ways this would not work in Europe. At least here in Denmark, there are laws against video cameras pointing to public spaces, against sharing video footage of people without their consent, against police offices making this kind of deals with private businesses, and probably a few more. As there should be in any civilized country, in my opinion.
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Um, what? Security cameras are deployed across Europe already. You guys are living in some sort of fantasy land.
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AFAIK, he was referring to privately owned and run cameras.
In any case, these things are coming nowhere near my home.
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I see. So as long as the government owns them it is OK. The Ring is used to monitor your front door, and catch package thieves and people who enter your property. They are perfectly legal in Europe, along with the zillion other home security cameras.
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And yet, how come London is a dangerous place to walk around these days? That city is CCTV land, yet you got youths attacking people with those huge 'zombie' knives.
And somehow youths are also packing guns, in the gun free UK.
Re: Would not work in Europe (Score:2)
The purpose of mass surveillance and gun control is to monitor and disarm ordinary honest citizens. It has nothing to do with preventing non-political crime.
Re: Would not work in Europe (Score:3)
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No I don't. I think Amazon sucks and I have a Ring that I stopped using because it isn't any good. But nice try. I just don't understand why you guys apparently think that Ring is the enemy here. There are much better systems available.
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Their time to respond to crime?
What they do when a criminal is found doing crime?
The rising crime rate, the lack of police and the level of police training?
CCTV seeing the face of the criminal/s would be welcomed by police.
Show the media who did what crime and if anyone saw something?
Why should criminals seen doing crime get any CCTV privacy in "public spaces"?
Thats for the police to show the nations media.
A civilized country should be free of most crime.
Cons
Re: Would not work in Europe (Score:2)
What I don't understand, my brother, is why you suppose the law enforcers have any particular interest in fighting crimes committed against commoners. That supposition does not accord with most people's observation of real world law enforcer behavior.
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Crime spreads to their good parts of a city?
Average police cant afford another mortgage again to escape crime rates by moving again.
When the crime rate is in every part of a city, then the police start to take notice.
Police unions want the best for their members.
Who wants to return home to a part of a city that is as full of crime as the streets patrolled all shift?
No pay rise can give back that good city feeling police expected over de
Re: Would not work in Europe (Score:2)
I've heard of cities trying programs to encourage (or even require) cops to live in the neighborhoods they patrol. I don't know the details of the programs that have been tried, nor their actual outcomes. But it certainly seems like a promising idea.
We need our cops to be /police/ - implying maintenance of public safety and order. Not /law enforcers/ - imply enforcement of (often tyrannical) laws, without concern for public safety and peace.
doubleplusungood (Score:4, Funny)
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Didn't we say that 1984 was not an operations manual?
In fact it was an observational documentary.
Anti-Ring articles (Score:3)
What is the deal with all the anti-Ring articles? There are a zillion security cameras out there right now with face recognition: https://www.cnet.com/news/the-... [cnet.com]
And yes, these cameras can be accessed with permission by law enforcement and also subpoenaed. And yes, they are installed in the country where you live. They aren't illegal. Slashdot is like your grandmother who learns about what a web browser is.
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But I am sure they ARE working on adding it to Ring. If they don't have it, they are way behind Nest and the zillion of cheap Chinese cameras that already have facial recognition. I don't understand why people think this is new. A camera captures video, and computer can do facial recognition. You are just putting the two together in one package. What is next, Slashdot is going to learn that mobile phones have location tracking functionality in them?
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Uh, what? Nest is owned by Google and already has listening microphones and their cameras already have facial recognition in them. And yes, Google contractors and Apple contractors already listen to your conversations. How do you guys think things like Siri work? They need to be tweaked by humans. Slashdot used to be a site with technologically knowledgeable people, now it is a bunch of out of touch people who don't really understand how technology works.
Re: Anti-Ring articles (Score:4, Informative)
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No they aren't opt-in. If I am on your property I am subject to your "smart speaker". And if you go onto someone's property you have "opted-in" into a lot of things, including being monitored by security cams if the owner wishes. You guys are weird. You act like Ring is the first security camera to exist. Google's security camera already have face recognition capabilities and so do a dozen other manufacturers. Ring is used to monitor your front door. It isn't even very good at that.
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Re: Anti-Ring articles (Score:2)
'all qualify as "dystopian panopticon shit."'
FTFY
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That shows that the data sets that the FBI has collected for decades is correct.
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They also let Amazon (etc.) see and track literally every person who comes and goes via your front door.
I'm not generally the paranoid type, but if you couple a bit of AI learning this type of video feed contains an IMMENSE amount of data about individual habits and choices.
Let's play it out a bit...Friday night and you're wearing a tiny red dress when you leave. Amazon starts suggesting products like fake breasts and drag makeup kits.
That's worth a laugh but equally, the amount of insight that video feed
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They can install and upload any data sets they want.
If that ends up with the media, online, the police, getting millions of views?
Their home, their network.
Re 'track literally every person who comes and goes via your front door."
For that the person gets security. Like CCTV but networked better.
Re: Anti-Ring articles (Score:4, Interesting)
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I have a Ring. I think it sucks. It doesn't work well at all. Usually, by the time it detects someone is at the door, the person has left. I just think it is weird that someone keeps submitting anti-Ring articles, when there are a zillion other cameras which are much better.
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Got some non-cloud suggestions for video doorbells?
Re:Anti-Ring articles (Score:4, Interesting)
try asking amazon. obviously it's a big deal or amazon, the largest of the operators, would stop being coy and freely admit they're monitoring neighborhoods and entire communities with the latest in powerful surveillance technology, like hmm...facial, gait and voice recognition, plate scanners, ir sensors or more? sweeping up in their ever expanding opaque and proprietary dark net everyone from delivery and repair people, dog walkers, joggers, children, moms pushing prams etc with nearly each and every single innocent passerby who in no way shape or form was queried let alone consulted about having their bio-metric data captured and stored indefinitely by who knows who and for who knows what purposes, assuming they're even old enough to give consent. all the while forcing the technology deeper to make it even more intrusive and personal and all this while fluctuating property and violent crime rates remain at or near the low levels not seen since the '60s. pointing out that ring is the major force behind an epidemic of chimeric commercial/state hyper surveillance is a public service and i'm glad someone is doing it.
- js.
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Er, why ask Amazon? Why not ask Google, or Apple, or one of the zillion other security camera makers? The Ring camera monitors your front door. It isn't even a particularly good quality camera.
Re: Anti-Ring articles (Score:2)
The next obvious step (Score:5, Insightful)
Human figure recognition is rapidly being integrated into home surveillance cameras. Even the $19 Wyze cam provides it. I have no doubt that facial recognition will be another standard feature within a decade.
As to the driver behind this: in most medium and large cities in the U.S., the police and courts have essentially given up on enforcing property crime laws. In my own neighborhood, there are several habitual criminals who have literally been arrested hundreds of times. Their cases are routinely dismissed by the D.A., who doesn't bother wasting resources to prosecute them. A day or two later they're back in our neighborhoods, breaking into cars, stealing packages, and burglarizing homes whenever they see an opportunity.
Within a few years, the day will come when these guys will walk down the street looking for a car to break into or a package to steal, and suddenly find that lights are turning on and residents (some of them armed) are coming out on their porches and decks to look for them, because their camera systems have identified a known criminal in the vicinity. It will be high-tech vigilantism, and homeowners who are sick and tired of being victimized will embrace it.
If you want to put an end to growing neighborhood surveillance, you have to give the police the resources to do their jobs, and elect a district attorney who is willing to prosecute and incarcerate habitual criminals. As I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future, then all the complaints about Orwellian police states will fall on deaf ears. No one gives two flips what Fight for the Future thinks.
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Um, what? Facial recognition within a...decade? Is everyone on here like 80 years old?
Re:The next obvious step (Score:4, Insightful)
there are several habitual criminals who have literally been arrested hundreds of times. Their cases are routinely dismissed by the D.A., who doesn't bother wasting resources to prosecute them.
Sounds like you just need to organize and oust the DA in the next election for those very reasons listed - problem solved.
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Often people who have been arrested hundreds of times have some kind of mental illness. "Hundreds of times" crimes seem to be things such as Kleptomania and other such crimes related to mental illness.,
Maybe they need to be committed to a mental hospital to get treated?
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And how good is the facial recognition in that cheap $19 cam? Has the software been audited, with the results made to the public so people who are smart enough to analyse it can?
How do we know it's not going to mistake grandma for an ISIS foot soldier?
I don't like this one bit. They are not being transparent with everything that is going on. Remember how when you had a billing dispute, the clown at the other end of the line would say "well, THE COMPUTER says you owe us money, the com
Arlo camera and Netgear? (Score:1)
I have to admit all the nonsense Amazon seems to be doing with Ring makes me wonder if Netgear is up to similar shenanigans with Arlo. I can't find anything troubling with a quick google search.
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Not sure what "shenanigans" you are referring to. What is the difference between Arlo and Ring? Neither have facial recognition yet. Google's Nest camera does though. And Google just logged your search and shared it with their partners. How is that for "shenanigans"? People are so dumb.
Re: Arlo camera and Netgear? (Score:2)
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" And Google just logged your search and shared it with their partners"
Oh really....
(rushes off to type in some very disgusting keywords that produces nauseating mental images that will haunt them)
Can you recognize my surprised face? (Score:2)
No shit they're working on facial recognition. Why wouldn't you?
I'd be working on object recognition, too. yolo can detect thousands of objects just on a pi. A description of a scene with facial recognition and object recognition would be awesomely powerful.
Yeah, there are many implications, but this stuff is inevitable.
This is a great time to read "Dodge (or Fall in Hell)" by Neal Stephenson, which I'm finally getting around to. Not much of a coincidence though since we talk about this stuff all the time,
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Ring already has (bad) object recognition. That is how it differentiates between a human and a car. Every decent security camera in the last couple years has had that. Sometimes I wonder what planet you guys are living on. Like you said, even a $5 Raspberry PI Zero can do it.
The Ukraine (Score:1)
You would think after decades of being forced to be the 'worker's paradise' they would know better.
Maybe there is a bit of that nostalgia of being under what was a scary and very dangerous police state.
It did have it's own perks though; Don't like your neighbor? Rat him out (falsely or not) as being an enemy of the State. Poof, he's gone!
Re: FACIAL RECOGNITION TECH IS VERY BENEFICIAL!!! (Score:2)
Shills be shillin'!
Nest video doorbell already has facial recognition (Score:2)
It maintains a list of people who appear at your door. You can then identify them, and from then on, it tries to recognize those specific people when they come to the door. It only works about half the time, but it does have the functionality.