Ring Told People To Snitch On Their Neighbors In Exchange For Free Stuff (vice.com) 49
popcornfan679 shares a report from Motherboard: Ring, Amazon's home security company, has encouraged people to form their own "Digital Neighborhood Watch" groups that report crime in exchange for free or discounted Ring products, according to an internal company slide presentation obtained by Motherboard. The slide presentation -- which is titled "Digital Neighborhood Watch" and was created in 2017, according to Ring -- tells people that if they set up these groups, report all suspicious activity to police, and post endorsements of Ring products on social media, then they can get discount codes for Ring products and unspecified Ring "swag." A Ring spokesperson said the program described in the slide presentation was rolled out in 2017, before Ring was acquired by Amazon. They said it was discontinued that same year.
"This particular idea was not rolled out widely and was discontinued in 2017," Ring said. "We will continue to invent, iterate, and innovate on behalf of our neighbors while aligning with our three pillars of customer privacy, security, and user control." "Some of these ideas become official programs, and many others never make it past the testing phase," Ring continued, adding that the company "is always exploring new ideas and initiatives."
"This particular idea was not rolled out widely and was discontinued in 2017," Ring said. "We will continue to invent, iterate, and innovate on behalf of our neighbors while aligning with our three pillars of customer privacy, security, and user control." "Some of these ideas become official programs, and many others never make it past the testing phase," Ring continued, adding that the company "is always exploring new ideas and initiatives."
They charge you, and You're still the product (Score:3)
Unlike the Facebook and Google, premium information-gathering services charge you for the surveillance, and then, sell your data.
1st gen Ring doorbell is garbage (Score:5, Insightful)
I had a problem with kids vandalizing things with permanent markers. Bought one of the Ring doorbells primarily as a deterrent, and it's a good thing it has worked in that respect, because it is otherwise a total piece of crap.
It claims adjustable motion sensitivity, but doesn't realistically provide any finer granularity between "detect every time a car drives by" and "completely ignore someone breakdancing at your front door". The smartphone app takes an eternity to connect (if it even does successfully connect at all) and load the live video, which makes it almost entirely impractical for telling the a UPS/USPS driver needing a signature "Hey, hang on a sec, I'll be right there!", before they make a beeline back to their truck. The video recordings it takes always seem to start a few seconds after it has detected motion, so you get a lot of videos of peoples' backsides as they're walking away (as well as numerous recordings of cars driving past your house).
As for the hardware, it's awful too. Despite being hardwired, the thing still uses a battery and somehow manages to deplete it if you watch too much live video (or record too many cars passing by). It also sometimes randomly decides to not charge, and you've gotta power cycle the doorbell transformer to get it charging again. I've also discovered that when the battery finally does crap out, the first generation Ring is essentially disposable. No one sells a suitable replacement battery, and the doorbell itself isn't designed to be serviceable. I don't mean you need some weird screwdrivers to take it apart - I mean it takes bending and prying to get it apart and it will never go back together quite as well when you're done with it (and that's assuming at some point someone makes a compatible replacement battery available).
The whole experience has soured me on anything Ring, so no wonder they've resorted to giving away shit for free.
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Arlo is like this too. Annoying. Are there any wireless security cameras that do work?
the dystopian future (Score:4, Insightful)
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The 'Corporate Stasi' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org], the worst dystopian science fiction brought to life see, USA not different at all to China, on wait in China it is the government and in the USA it is a conspiring cabal of corporations, seriously right there in your face (they conducted the trial and then withdrew whilst they worked on the propaganda schemes to make it seem, doesn't even really have to be, just seem to be publicly acceptable).
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"Be a government informer. Betray your family and friends. Fabulous prizes to be won!" #votesmeg
I knew it (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I knew it (Score:4, Insightful)
Burglars and package thieves are enemies of the State? You guys are weird.
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Screw you. We have a massive problem with package theft and burglaries in my neighborhood. Yes, everyone is posting Ring videos, warning their neighbors and calling the police. Normal people don't go down the entire street or alley checking for unlocked car doors.
- Necron69
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Reporting such acts to police and telling the world about who was doing the crime.
The house and private property is better protected.
A city with a set number of police can do more with its police.
People are talking with and helping the police thanks to networked tech.
Police get a good look at criminals in the area, criminals who traveled to an area.
Lots of different areas in a city are now more safe as crime is reduced.
Re: I knew it (Score:2)
Re: I knew it (Score:3)
Two words: community trust.
If you think incentivising watching neighbours and telling on them is a good thing for community, you are part of the problem.
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Have you been living under a rock for the last 30 years?
"Neighborhood Watch" programs have existed and been encourage by the cops and city government for decades, at least around here and I suspect many places. They will hang a sign that says "Neighborhood watch program" in your neighborhood if you call city hall.
The idea is not to rat out your next door neighbor, but to report on suspicious behavior -- people you don't recognize entering neighbor's homes, suspicious strangers and vehicles, etc.
Ring is onl
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Unfortunately those things don't know where your property ends. They record everything. Which may be ok in more fascist countries, over in my country you're in pretty hot water if your camera as much as COULD record a public place.
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Whats wrong with seeing people who are on property doing crime? Reporting such acts to police and telling the world about who was doing the crime. The house and private property is better protected. A city with a set number of police can do more with its police. People are talking with and helping the police thanks to networked tech. Police get a good look at criminals in the area, criminals who traveled to an area. Lots of different areas in a city are now more safe as crime is reduced.
Safer because people have stopped stealing packages that are just left in the open by stupid delivery drivers or safer because the residents are happily becoming a surveillance state, and not only that are paying, installing and running the gear to spy on themselves, by themselves. Better be careful no one wants to report you for your unharmonious activity and those two very shady looking people you had in your house for 2hr 32m yesterday afternoon.
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I had always assumed we would know full tech driven fascism when cell phones were effectively mandatory and made available for free to those who could not buy ta spy-minder on their own, too.
IoT using bad, outdated tech (Score:1)
Sure they have an excuse. (Score:2)
You'd think it would have a 30 second buffer like the Axon police body cams do but I guess no. Doorbell cams [have] no excuse [for not having a pre-trigger buffer]
SURE they have an excuse.
They're battery powered for the long term. IoT devices run for months to years on a small battery by not doing power-burning stuff except on rare occasions. You can't do continuous video compression and flash writing, or have enough RAM to store half a minute of uncompressed video in a running 24/7 loop, and expect your
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But SECONDS after it detected motion it starts recording?
I am far from a professional. But even I manage to build IoT devices that wake up in milliseconds from deep power down and can do what they're supposed to do, what takes SECONDS for these things to start recording? Seconds is half an eternity and then some for a microcontroller.
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IoT devices run for months to years on a small battery by not doing power-burning stuff except on rare occasions. You can't do continuous video compression and flash writing, or have enough RAM to store half a minute of uncompressed video in a running 24/7 loop, and expect your batteries to last even a few days.
Maybe in some setups but why can you not wire your doorbell to the electrics of the house, like a normal doorbell, then it can do all that stuff.
Didn't the Stasi do the same thing? (Score:4, Interesting)
The free stuff in that case was not getting thrown in jail.
Thank you for your cooperation comrade.
Re: Didn't the Stasi do the same thing? (Score:1)
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If Erich Mielke (head of GDR Stasi) was still alive, he'd probably bite his own ass if he could watch this.
Well, capitalism has always been more efficient than communism...
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Oh no, you could get quite a lot from collaborating with the Stasi. Want a car for yourself without waiting 15+ years? Or how about some oranges? Maybe even bananas? Want a better flat so you and your family don't have to sleep stacked on top of each other? Nothing is too good for true comrades!
Privacy of NON-customers. (Score:1)
Invading the privacy of customers is not too much of an issue. They do sign up for it when they subscribe to the service.
Invading the privacy of NON customers, who did NOT in any way consent to be spied on, is another matter.
* Deploying a 24/7 security cam (with sound recording) built into a doorbell button, pointed at the yard across the street (as my neighbor recently did), may make one a "peeping tom".
* Selling such a product and service, and explicitly ENCOURAGING and REWARDING such dep
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Um, deploying security cams doesn't make you a "peeping tom". Do you guys realize that security cameras have been around forever? If you ever see Ring video you would realize it captures a lot less than a regular security cam.
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deploying security cams doesn't make you a "peeping tom".
Depends on your state law and how they're aimed.
Re: Privacy of NON-customers. (Score:1)
That someone else is more of a peeping Tom doesn't mean you aren't.
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Capturing video of my front yard is illegal where I live, unless it's me doing it.
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The camera can then see no more than any human eye can from a person own property.
Can the cam set on a person own property be guilty of a trespass?
Did the cam see any more than a random person walking down the street?
Can a person walking around their own property "looking" with their own eyes be guilty of trespass?
The "yard across the street" is as open to a person, a cam seeing as it every was.
Want privacy? Try a fence. C
Re: Privacy of NON-customers. (Score:1)
Time to get experience in a community, with real people.
Because so far you don't get it.
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Basically, guys on Slashdot think "police are evil" because they are suburban "libertarians". But when something happens, the police are the first people they call.
Re: What is wrong w/ "Digital Neighborhood Watch"? (Score:3)
You are on Slashdot.
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Yes. What exactly is your problem with this?
If I need the police, I'll call it. Notice the "I" in the sentence? And the absence of "you"?
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People who live in a home get to see who is doing the crime.
Big company makes a product that works at a low cost and that shows criminals on a persons property.
Police get to an area quicker and might catch the criminal.
The world then gets to see who is doing the crime on the web/local news.
Crime stats are not just numbers of "people" who did "something" over a year. Many homes in a good part of a city got stolen from.
Now the world can see who did what.
Po
Re: What is wrong w/ "Digital Neighborhood Watch"? (Score:2)
Now consider those cases that are not a crime, but are watched and reported, breaking community trust, due to such incentives?
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Law enforcement isn't evil. Some people working for them might be, but law enforcement itself is a very good thing. I do greatly benefit from it, as do most people.
There is a thing called privacy, though. Try it, you might like it.
Ring hate (Score:1)
I don't get the Ring hate. Are you guys realizing that security cameras exist for the first time or something? Somee dude really has it in for Ring and keeps posting this nonsense. Ring is there to catch package thieves and burglars, not to "snitch on your neighbors". WTF does that even mean?
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Then point those cameras in a way to record your front porch and not mine. No problem with that.
And inform me that they do, so I can avoid visiting you.
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A good way to see it is tactical vs strategic. A surveillance tool can have benefits in a specific case and at a specific time, but at the macroscopic level it contributes to an evolution. That's the value of laws protecting privacy or free speech. You always have individual cases where these laws get in the way, but overall they are beneficial to the health of a society. There was a book out recently 'The Age of Surveillance Capitalism' . I haven't read it yet but one point it makes is that people's behavi
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I don't get the Ring hate. Are you guys realizing that security cameras exist for the first time or something? Somee dude really has it in for Ring and keeps posting this nonsense. Ring is there to catch package thieves and burglars, not to "snitch on your neighbors". WTF does that even mean?
Ring isn't just Ring. It's also the social network called Neighbors where everyone can link their rings anonymously. They can all talk about things they capture on their ring network to everyone without being identified. THIS is where Ring goes bad.
Ring Good, Neighborhood Bad (Score:3)