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Privacy Technology

Judge Orders Fairfax Police To Stop Collecting Data From License Plate Readers (washingtonpost.com) 81

Posted by msmash from the tussle-continues dept.
A Fairfax County judge on Monday ordered the Fairfax County police to stop maintaining a database of photos of vehicle license plates, with the time and location where they were snapped, ruling that "passive use" of data from automated license plate readers on the back of patrol cars violates Virginia privacy law. From a report: The ruling followed a related finding by the Virginia Supreme Court last year, meaning the case could affect how long -- if at all -- Virginia police can keep license plate data. The ruling by Fairfax Circuit Court Judge Robert J. Smith is a victory for privacy rights advocates who argued that the police could track a person's movements by compiling the times and exact locations of a car anytime its plate was captured by a license plate reader. Fairfax County Police Chief Edwin C. Roessler Jr. said Monday night that he would ask the county attorney to appeal the ruling.

The issue represents another front in the ongoing conflict over the use of emerging technologies by law enforcement. Police say they can, and have, used license plate location data to find dangerous criminals and missing persons. Privacy advocates don't oppose the use of the technology during an active investigation, but they say that maintaining a database of license plate locations for months or years provides too much opportunity for abuse by the police. Last month, the ACLU disclosed that the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency was tapping into a vast, national database of police and private license plate readers. Such private databases remain unregulated.
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Judge Orders Fairfax Police To Stop Collecting Data From License Plate Readers More

Judge Orders Fairfax Police To Stop Collecting Data From License Plate Readers

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  • This is good (Score:3)

    by rossdee ( 243626 ) on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @10:06AM (#58378092)

    For people that live in Fairfax county.

    Not so good for the people who don't even know where Faifax county is
    Theres probably quite a few of them.

    • I think this is good for everyone, everywhere. Someone has to be first, but once one person or one county does it, others will start to follow in kind.
    • Many license plate databases are privately created and operated. Various law enforcement agencies subscribe to these databases rather than run their own. Fairfax can switch from their system to a commercial system.

      Where does the data for these private systems come from? Auto repossessors, bail bondsmen, private investigators, etc. These folks have been known to constantly scan everywhere they go. Some even cruise mall, stadium, walmart parking lots to build up the database.

      Basically private databases
      • There's nothing preventing anyone from taking photographs in public and I'm more concerned with the dangers of outlawing that than finding other solutions to problems such as these. If it's a big enough concern for a person, someone could easily make a cover for license plates to put over it while parked or have a car that will automatically cover them while the vehicle isn't being operated.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by dcw3 ( 649211 )

          Your cover would be illegal, at least here in Fairfax County, VA. Your vehicle is required to have properly plated tags, even when parked in your own driveway...I know, I went to court over expired tags when I found a ticket on my window in my driveway.

    • Fairfax County is the part of Virgina that touches DC. Which means a lot of government workers live there. It also holds the Pentagon and Langley, as well as numerous other government agencies. Hence, this decision affects a lot of federal workers, which might mean that they pay attention to this, which means it might spread more.

      IIRC, Fairfax county is also the home to several Supreme Court justices.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by sbrown123 ( 229895 )

      Actually it is not. They have had those since 2011. Here is an old article that gives details on how well they worked:

      "From February 2010 through the end of 2012, license plate readers helped the state police recover 529 stolen vehicles and 751 stolen license plates and arrest 229 wanted persons, Geller said. In one recent high-profile case, she said, the readers were used in investigating a string of arsons on the Eastern Shore last year."

      https://www.nbcsandiego.com/ne... [nbcsandiego.com]

      These things were awesome and sto

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by dcw3 ( 649211 )

        I am all against facial recognition. But cars aren't people. And driving is a privilege, not a right.

        Yes, we've all heard that old phrase, but the reality is that if you live in Fairfax county, as I do, you likely have to drive just to make a living. If you consider that a requirement to work, which is is for the vast majority, then you'll have to admit that it's not so much of a "privilege". It's being used to track peoples movements, and that's a blatant invasion of privacy. Yes, you can be photographed in public, but people have no right to follow your movements, and that includes the government.

        • I am all against facial recognition. But cars aren't people. And driving is a privilege, not a right.

          Yes, we've all heard that old phrase, but the reality is that if you live in Fairfax county, as I do, you likely have to drive just to make a living. ...

          To take it a step further, I feel that suggesting driving is a privilege is not only inaccurate, but tends to be pretty intellectually lazy. The fact is that most of our freedoms are a privilege - at least by that standard. For example, even though many believe that we have a right to life, liberty, and prosperity; using the "privilege" standard, our right to not be incarcerated is a privilege. Breaking the law will land one in prison (assuming due process of law). Further, assuming that driving a car

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        This isn't about the use of them, it is about the collection and storage of the information. In other words, building a profile of location data of every plate scanned.

  • One for the good guys (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Sqreater ( 895148 ) on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @10:09AM (#58378116)
    But the general trend is against privacy. Police assume everyone is a criminal who has just not been caught yet. The presumption of innocence is dead.

    • But the general trend is against privacy. Police assume everyone is a criminal who has just not been caught yet. The presumption of innocence is dead.

      Do police really care to believe that, or is it more like they're being sold that steaming pile of FUD from the data peddlers?

      Rule #1 when solving for Why: Follow the fucking money.

      And assuming everyone is a criminal is the kind of delusional shit that creates bad cops.

      • Police had to make the conscious decision to spend the money on the system. That means they were internally motivated to do so. That means they believe the general public is a potential threat. That includes a guy driving to work or a mother making a store run with her kids.

        • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward

          There is a difference between thinking/believing that everyone is a criminal, and wanting to have information to help capture criminals. They likely bought the license plate readers to help them find cars with unpaid tickets, or perhaps used to commit a crime. I cannot say if they had an altruistic concern when they bought the system, but I think we can give them the benefit of the doubt that they did.

        • Police had to make the conscious decision to spend the money on the system. That means they were internally motivated to do so. That means they believe the general public is a potential threat. That includes a guy driving to work or a mother making a store run with her kids.

          Ingrained or taught? My inherent question really does boil down to that. Do those inclined to put on a badge and gun for work every day naturally believe everyone around them is a criminal, or are they sold that line of chest-pounding unionized bullshit every time a data peddler walks in the door with a new surveillance toy?

          I've interacted with and am friends with quite a few of them. Most cops punch in and punch out. They wear a gun as part of their job, and don't ever fire or practice with it unless o

          • Perhaps so, but they are just the foot soldiers, and if higher ups told them to arrest you, they would. It is like in Nazi Germany. If higher ups tell you to arrest this jew who you think did nothing at all, what do you do? Do you say no? Or do you just do what you are told in order to have a job and feed your family? The German police officer may not have known or cared the arrestee was a jew. The data is being used higher up. the And today, the arresting officer may not know the reason there is an arrest

      • I'd wager police leadership is sold on the idea that the plate readers pay for themselves through increased fine collections and civil forfeiture. If they can actually do some data intelligence driven detective work, it's just an added bonus but the real benefit is collecting money.

        The cops *know* there all kinds of people out there with unpaid fines, but traditional methods are so inefficient (short of a mass issuance of bench warrants and a couple of dozen deputies spending a few days clearing them) they

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by dcw3 ( 649211 )

          As someone who moved to Fairfax Co. in '82, I've had numerous opportunities to see the local LE in action. I highly doubt there was some nefarious goal. And I say this as someone who's opposed to them keeping any kind of database to track our movements. Every cop I've interacted with, save one who was a little aggressive but backed down when I shut up (the group I was with was being kicked out of a bar and I was trying to explain what happened), has been polite and professional. From what I've read, the

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Watch LivePD once and tell me they are assuming innocence. Presumtion of innocence is in the courts, not the streets.

    • Police assume everyone is a criminal who has just not been caught yet.

      They are! Everyone is! There are so many obscure or deliberately vague laws out there that I bet every adult human has broken a law in their life in the US, even if they were unaware they were doing so at the time!

      That's why privacy and unreasonable protection from police snooping is so important. The solution is not to arrest the entire populace. When police have too much information, instead of being protect and serve, they can become political and arrest anyone. I've always thought we need fewer, mor

  • They place Emissions testers randomly in corners of highways.

    https://www.rapidpassvirginia.com/VaPublic/Home/FAQ

    "RAPIDPASS systems are exhaust emissions analyzers similar to those used in traditional emissions inspection stations, but adapted for drive-through testing. Two green boxes placed across a lane of traffic measure a vehicle's speed and acceleration and associated exhaust emissions in order to determine its compliance with emissions standards. A camera captures an image of the vehicle's license pla

    • The problem arises if they keep car location data for cars that do not raise any emissions concerns.

    • "RAPIDPASS systems are exhaust emissions analyzers similar to those used in traditional emissions inspection stations, but adapted for drive-through testing.

      Wow..that's wild.

      Where I live, they don't even do emissions testing on annual car inspections, and other states I've lived in, don't even do annual inspections.

      Interesting the differences between states.....

      • Emissions testing is important in dense population areas because air quality can get out of hand pretty fast. In rural or smaller urban areas, keeping old cars on the road longer is a net positive environmentally speaking.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dcw3 ( 649211 )

        Not only that, but in VA we have "personal property tax" on our vehicles. They use the book value of your vehicle to tax it every year. My 2012 is still getting hit for ~$600/year. This encourages people to keep old polluting vehicles much longer than they should. Thankfully, I'm leaving this idiocy in the near future.

  • Track the off duty police (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I have a feeling that if someone started tracking the whereabouts of the police chief and keeping that data stored for years, they may get the hint... or make up some BS reason to arrest you.

  • Headline is wrong (Score:5, Informative)

    by tomhath ( 637240 ) on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @10:39AM (#58378324)
    They're still collecting data, the judge said they can't store it indefinitely without a good reason.
    • I don't think I have a problem collecting it as long as it is disposed of immediately beyond its intended use.

      For example: the system spots a parked car. That car has no warrants. Then do not keep a record that this car was parked here at this time.

      The license is in plain view. An officer could see it, and compare it to a list. When he does so, he doesn't keep a record of every license plate he looked at. This would just automate that. Only record when a wanted car has been found.

  • IMHO:

    License Plate Scanners are a vitally important/valuable tech, for law enforcement, to fight against crime, to protect & serve common good of general public!!!

    & on the contrary to what self-appointed "Privacy Advocates" (like ACLU & EFF etc) always try to claim/portray, general public is NOT obsessed w/ privacy (ask FaceBook!!!) & actually quite willing to help law enforcement!!!

    • > License Plate Scanners are a vitally important/valuable tech, for law enforcement,
      > to fight against crime, to protect & serve common good of general public!!!

      Okay. How about license plate databases. That is what we're talking about here. A database of where every car has ever been and when. That crosses the line. Police cannot be trusted to have such data.

      It's one thing if a system scans plates and only alerts and records when a wanted vehicle is found. It's a whole different thin
      • No. I work in data and tracking the movement of criminals is vitally important to doing pattern analysis. Plus, you have no expectation of privacy in public so if you want to be private, lock your front door and have Amazon deliver your groceries.
        • You have no expectation of privacy in a police state. If you want no expectation of privacy, then you should move to a police state. BTW, police work is EASY in a police state! You can monitor everyone's movements, contacts, associations, past history. It sounds perfect for you!
        • On your other topic: tracking the movement of criminals. I have no problem with that. But only track the criminals, not everyone else.

          I don't have a problem with you scanning for license plates of wanted cars. If you see one, then the system should alert and record the car, time and location. But all those non-criminal car license plates you scanned -- those should be discarded not recorded. No need for a massive police state database of where every car has ever been at any time.

          The problem is th
  • Driving an invisible car is not an option, nor should it be. If we really had an inalienable right to do that, then every license plate would just read "Road Tax Paid."

    But hacking computers, tapping phone lines, intercepting cell phone data, no knock SWAT raids (on the basis of a single phone call), and seizing cash, laptops, and cell phones, all without a court order? Those are the kind of things where we would be better off drawing the line should be drawn and defended. Don't talk about slippery slopes

    • If you want to take it to the kind of extremes where recording a license plate number is illegal, you might just as well outlaw collection and storage of fingerprints and DNA

      I have no problem with scanning license plates - that just augments something a person can do with their own two eyes. It's storage of location data over time that violates privacy.

      Outlawing storage of fingerprints and DNA for people who were not prosecuted or convicted is a good idea to me as well. Collecting for a single case is OK and fine. Even if for no other reason than false positives on future cases wasting innocent peoples' time.

  • The LPR companies like this ruling. It means LEOs will come to them to gather and manage the data. But who can attest to the integrity of the data? And no warrants will be required to access the data.

    I would add that FFC police are horrendous when it comes to transparency.

    • Yes, we also have to do something about LPR companies, if that was your intention.

    • If the LPR company is storing the data long-term, they should be shut down and their CEO convicted for stalking. Stalking is no more legal for a corporation than a private individual following you around and recording your every move.

      • If the LPR company is storing the data long-term, they should be shut down and their CEO convicted for stalking. Stalking is no more legal for a corporation than a private individual following you around and recording your every move.

        While I agree that it's not good, this is the world we live in. Everything harvests and records information in public, as well as places of business. It will take data protection laws to change this, and even then, I doubt the wholesale collection of your shopping habits and location will be affected. We can expect this to continually reach deeper and deeper into our personal lives as long there is a few bucks to be made. It is our duty as private citizens to express displeasure, and work within our system

        • and who makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear for his or her safety, or the safety of his or her immediate family.

          Like offering to sell your data to law enforcement. Sounds like a threat to me.

  • Of criminals and illegal migrants?
    The people who use fake and shared parts of an ID to drive?
    That the "active investigations" all over the USA that needs tech like vehicle license plates to find.

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