Chicago To Shutdown Composting Business Because Regulations Don't Cover Worms (blockclubchicago.org) 97
schwit1 shared an article from Reason's "Volokh Conspiracy" blog:
Nature's Little Recyclers is a father-son business that does composting on empty residential lots, transforming organic waste into nutrient-rich soil. Last year, the business's worms processed 10 tons of banana peels and cups from the Chicago Marathon that would otherwise have gone to a landfill. But Chicago officials are going to shut the business down -- and not because the city doesn't think composting is a good thing (the city's sustainability website directs people to Nature's Little Recyclers). Rather, the city's business and zoning regulations weren't designed to accommodate small and innovative operations like Nature's Little Recyclers.
"None of these operations met the criteria for garden composting or an on-site organic waste composting operation," said Anel Ruiz, spokesperson for the Department of Public Health, in a statement to Block Club Chicago, adding "Further, these sites are not properly zoned for commercial composting."
But another perspective was shared by lawyer Amy Hermalik, associate director of the Institute for Justice Clinic on Entrepreneurship at the University of Chicago. "The city will unofficially imply there's wiggle room, saying it only enforces certain ordinances against 'bad operators,' but that leaves businesses subject to shifting political winds or personal whims, Hermalik said. 'They [the city] have an incredible amount of power to do as they please.'"
"None of these operations met the criteria for garden composting or an on-site organic waste composting operation," said Anel Ruiz, spokesperson for the Department of Public Health, in a statement to Block Club Chicago, adding "Further, these sites are not properly zoned for commercial composting."
But another perspective was shared by lawyer Amy Hermalik, associate director of the Institute for Justice Clinic on Entrepreneurship at the University of Chicago. "The city will unofficially imply there's wiggle room, saying it only enforces certain ordinances against 'bad operators,' but that leaves businesses subject to shifting political winds or personal whims, Hermalik said. 'They [the city] have an incredible amount of power to do as they please.'"
Regulation (Score:2)
Is one of the largest issues with the economy today. I'm spitballing a bit, but I'd say half of the regulations are great and keep people safe and business operating properly. Half are protectionist, nonsensical, outdated or so broad or vague nobody knows how to follow them.
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He was making a "guesstimate" and stated as such. That's not lying in the least. It's more accurate to claim you're lying by calling him a liar.
He could be right... Or he could be low... Or he could be high. I'd gamble he's right on or low.
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I didn't give the original figure, but I'll jump in on the topic with some sources:
Regulations Cost U.S. Business More Than Canada’s GDP [fortune.com]
The accumulation of rules over the past several decades has slowed economic growth, amounting to an estimated $4 trillion loss in US GDP in 2012 (had regulations stayed at 1980 levels) [mercatus.org]
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Close but not quite. Most are their to allow arbitrary enforcement. Can't rule a country filled with innocent people.
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The country is filled with uncharged people who commit three daily felonies per capita. Most are honest, good people. You could hang them. Yes, I'm channeling Richeliu.
Or maybe I missed your /s.
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The problem is the justice/legal system is far too much by the books. There are too many people who use the word of law and regulations to do things that are in contradiction to what benefits society or are worded in a way where innovative way to help society are not allowed because of flaws in the law.
Americans and the English culture seems to encourage following the Letter of the Law, and people will protest and fight people who break the letter of the law, even though what they are doing is beneficial t
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The law that causes the most trouble for people who think laws should be simple and "flexible", is the law of unintended consequences.
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Complexity has nothing to do with how good the law is.
Here's an actual, complex law:
Whoever, within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, willfully and maliciously sets fire to or burns any building, structure or vessel, any machinery or building materials or supplies, military or naval stores, munitions of war, or any structural aids or appliances for navigation or shipping, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be imprisoned for not more than 25 years, fined the greater of the fine under this title or the cost of repairing or replacing any property that is damaged or destroyed, or both.
Here's a simpler, more flexible version of the same law:
Any person who intentionally sets fire to property and presents a danger to others, shall pay for the damages they caused and/or be imprisoned for less than 25 years.
Now, suppose somebody sets fire to a platter of thermite. In the first version, the prosecution would have to spend time to convince the jury that thermite is a building material or munition. In the second, they would spend that time arguing that burning thermite endangers others. Which is the more important question? Which do you think the court should spend time delib
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I applaud you for taking the time to come up with such a concise and clear example. I think it really illustrates that the complex laws are clearer in their intent. The first law is clearly not meant to cover setting a dumpster on fire, and possibly not thermite (depending on what it's used for). This is an ideal case, because real world laws are written with special interests in mind, often being written in entirety by special interest groups.
When a law is vague, application is left up to the discretion of
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I think what you're seeing as clarity in the first example is exactly what I see as a problem. You'd think a dumpster fire is not covered, but if by chance there was a piece of 2x4 in it, prosecution can now argue it's setting fire to construction material.
More importantly, it gives no consideration to the danger caused by the action. If someone set fire to a discarded pile of 2x4s in the middle of an empty desert, then it's not particularly harmful to anyone, and probably shouldn't even be prosecuted. But
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Re:Regulation (Score:4, Informative)
Nah, this just sounds like the same stupid zoning shit you get everywhere in the US.
Not everywhere. For instance, Houston has no zoning.
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Australia is zoned as tight as it can be, detailing use and look, extremely strictly enforced. Everyone knows what they are buying into and if they try to change use, they will be shut down hard, good. The only sane way to manage property zoning.
Else you get capitalist chaos. Oh look there is a nice neighbourhood, let's buy a property, put the worst industry you can get away with to drive out the other residents and oh look, no one wants to buy now and down go property prices. Buy up cheap and shut down th
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Australia is zoned as tight as it can be
"Australia" is nothing. The zoning restrictions varies greatly from city to city. Local councils are in control of it.
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Whatever you say, comrade. gotta have extreme micromanagement because anything less is anarchy. Dictators always love those false dilemmas.
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And Money (Score:1)
Just how much do you think a composting business can be shook down for ?
Re:Wrong Approach (Score:4, Funny)
Another example of zoning ruck amok (Score:5, Interesting)
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Well if it's not (insert all the reasons why something zoned as a landfill transfer station is bad) then you wouldn't care. But all those reasons are precisely why zoning exists, and nuisance has a very broad definition.
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This is another example of how zoning and business regulations in the US have run amok where the default is that something can't happen.
The default with all zoning laws is that something can't happen. Nuisance has a broad definition. Slight smell coming over? Nuisance. Delivery truck in the street? Nuisance. The Japanese system is somewhat retarded in that it promotes low value slums and poverty without city planning to prevent it by allowing things like residential buildings to be built in industrial complexes naturally keeping land value low while also impacting citizens health.
There's a lot wrong in the Bay Area with zoning, but absolute
"Wiggle room" (Score:5, Funny)
I get it.
This being Chicago... (Score:1, Troll)
There is probably some large, mob-owned trash business that is benefiting from this ruling. That's why the biggest line of business in the city is gangland shootings.
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...what real difference does it make if they were placed in a landfill?
Unfortunately, the low-oxygen conditions inside landfills makes for a very poor environment for the aerobic bacteria that eat organic material like paper and plant waste. Without those bacteria and a good supply of fresh air, that waste won't decompose in a landfill much better than plastic.
That's one reason why worms are so important in composting. Their tunnels carry enough oxygen to keep the bacteria alive, reducing the need to constantly turn the soil.
In other words, you forgot the Payola (Score:4, Insightful)
"The city will unofficially imply there's wiggle room, saying it only enforces certain ordinances against 'bad operators,' but that leaves businesses subject to shifting political winds or personal whims,"
So the real story here is the busses missed the subtle hints as to who they needed to pay off to let the business keep working.
Why anyone would start a business in Chicago of all places is beyond me, unless you were sure of profitability after paying out the substantial graft required.
Steps (Score:2)
They probably started a business there because that is where they happened to live.
Step 1) Have great idea for business.
Step 2) Move to some place where the government is not so corrupt they will be sure to eventually shut you down or bankrupt you.
Step 3) Profit.
Chicago is incredibly corrupt (Score:5, Informative)
That's probably what's going on here. The guy running this composting business either refused to or doesn't know he's supposed to bribe the city officials.
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I'll take "Things That Didn't Happen" for $1000, Alex
In Chicago? (Score:3)
I'll take "Things That Didn't Happen" for $1000, Alex
I'll take the "things that happen daily - Double" for $2000, Alex.
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I'll take "Things That Didn't Happen" for $1000, Alex
You must be incredibly naive. When I die, I'm moving to Chicago so I can still vote.
Every city is incredibly corrupt (Score:5, Funny)
I'll give you the classic example I like to trout out from my little town. Down here there was a land owner who wanted some state trust land. Trust land, if you don't know, is when the state holds land in "trust" until a developer is ready to do something with it so they don't have to pay property tax in the meantime.
Anyway, this particular plot of land wasn't for sale, because it was full of an endangered species of goat. But that landowner wanted it. So what did he do? Bought a plot of land next to it, put up some rickety fences, put a bunch of sheep with syphilis on the land, waited for the sheep to jump said rickety fence and for the goats to do what goats do to sheep. The sheep had various immunities, the goats did not. Wasn't long and the goats were all dead. After that he got his land.
This is nothing new. Go drag your ass down to your local community college and pull up microfiche of the left wing rags in your local city and you'll find they're full of crap like this. Nobody cares and nobody does anything about it.
If you want crap like that to change you have to start voting and pay attention to who you vote for. And you have to vote in your primary. Otherwise the local businesses will just buy up the politicians. And local politicians are _cheap_.
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You get what you measure (Score:2)
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It being Chicago, this is exactly what is going on. Once the Alderman gets his envelope, the zoning problems go away.
The whole damn planet is zoned for it (Score:2)
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It happens absolutely everywhere: an organic thing hits the dirt, that thing gets consumed and literally becomes the freaking dirt.
When someone drops a french fry on the ground and it goes through the process of becoming the freaking dirt, no one notices and no one cares. When a commercial enterprise causes ten tons of banana peels to "hit the dirt" and go through the process of becoming the freaking dirt, it causes a powerful stench and lots of people notice and lots of people care. See the difference?
Move to a great city/state (Score:2)
Set up the worms and grow a state that welcomes production and jobs.
A state and city where officials welcome jobs and support work.
Cities all over the USA that have regulations to attract new jobs.
That Darned Disease Again (Score:2)
There is probably more to this story (Score:2)
The problem with composting is that it’s not commercially viable, hence why commercial com posters typically use heavy chemicals to ‘assist’ the process, they also concentrate a lot of the toxic waste like pesticides from the things they are composting and a commercial composting facility/process in a residential neighborhood will cause a lot of problems with odor or may even be outright dangerous.
that is just plain stupid (Score:2)
Random piles of crap? (Score:2)
This is litteraly worm crap right? And they purchased undeveloped residential plots, and are making massive piles of this stuff? Compost stinks. I bet if this went up next door while you were trying to sell your house the value would drop 30%. How locally do they sell their worms and compost?
They were then selling all this stuff for a profit right? I didn't read anything that said they were a non-profit. So we are now demonizing the city for protecting neighborhoods from a corporation who are making c
So... (Score:2)
... What mob-and-Chicago-City-Hall-connected enterprise wants to take over the composting business, and is using this to take out the competition?
Better than their traditional "break kneecaps" method, I suppose.