Lobbyists Demonize 'Right To Repair' Legislation (securityledger.com) 149
"New Hampshire lawmakers got an early taste last week of the arguments that manufacturing, technology and telecommunications lobbyists will use to try to hobble and defeat right to repair legislation in 16 states this year," writes long-time Slashdot reader chicksdaddy.
The Security Ledger reports: Curious children could find themselves dismembered by run-away washing machines. A phalanx of illegally modified lawn tractors and leaf blowers will belch pollution in defiance of the EPA, darkening the sky... At least, that's the scene painted by representatives from some of the U.S.'s biggest industry groups. At a hearing before the New Hampshire House of Representatives Committee on Commerce and Consumer Affairs February 5, they painted a dire picture of the consequences of passing a proposed Digital Fair Repair Act, HB 462, saying the proposed legislation would stifle commerce, leave New Hampshire consumers vulnerable to cyber crime and even physical harm at the hands of clueless owners and inexperienced or unethical repair professionals.
"There is a lot at stake when it comes to Right to Repair, and you could feel those stakes in the room," wrote Nathan Proctor, the head of the right to repair campaign at the U.S. Public Interest Research Group (PIRG), in an email statement. "Legislators have their work cut out for them sifting through all the frantic opposition and their deceptive, and at times bizarre, arguments," he wrote.
HB 462 would require original equipment manufacturers that do business in New Hampshire to make the same documentation, parts and tools available to device owners and independent repair professionals as they make available to their licensed or "authorized" repair professionals. Similarly, documentation, tools, and parts needed to reset product (software) locks or digital right management functions following maintenance and repair would also need to be made available to owners and independent repair professionals on "fair and reasonable terms."
The Security Ledger reports: Curious children could find themselves dismembered by run-away washing machines. A phalanx of illegally modified lawn tractors and leaf blowers will belch pollution in defiance of the EPA, darkening the sky... At least, that's the scene painted by representatives from some of the U.S.'s biggest industry groups. At a hearing before the New Hampshire House of Representatives Committee on Commerce and Consumer Affairs February 5, they painted a dire picture of the consequences of passing a proposed Digital Fair Repair Act, HB 462, saying the proposed legislation would stifle commerce, leave New Hampshire consumers vulnerable to cyber crime and even physical harm at the hands of clueless owners and inexperienced or unethical repair professionals.
"There is a lot at stake when it comes to Right to Repair, and you could feel those stakes in the room," wrote Nathan Proctor, the head of the right to repair campaign at the U.S. Public Interest Research Group (PIRG), in an email statement. "Legislators have their work cut out for them sifting through all the frantic opposition and their deceptive, and at times bizarre, arguments," he wrote.
HB 462 would require original equipment manufacturers that do business in New Hampshire to make the same documentation, parts and tools available to device owners and independent repair professionals as they make available to their licensed or "authorized" repair professionals. Similarly, documentation, tools, and parts needed to reset product (software) locks or digital right management functions following maintenance and repair would also need to be made available to owners and independent repair professionals on "fair and reasonable terms."
Time for a legal check (Score:5, Funny)
Did they pay the appropriate royalties to Stephen King and AC/DC for their wild claims?
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I think the anti-caravan/wall lobbyists got there first.
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As evidence, I want the lobbyist to play this clip...
"Look Dewey, I got the microwave to work with the door open." - Hal "Malcolm in the Middle"
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Shade tree mechanics have been a thing since cars went mainstream. Same for tractors. Somehow, we haven't ended the human race yet. It's becoming less common now, in part because it's getting harder to fix without a special blessing from the OEM (who do they think they are, the Pope?) but I don't see any evidence that lives are being saved. If anything it's more dangerous since people will avoid expensive dealer repairs as long as possible (sometimes out of necessity).
Danger FUD is a common tactic of those
GIVE THESE BASTARDS A NAME (Score:4, Interesting)
Right to Repair advocates always get named in the news.
The anti RTR side is usually anonymous.
It's time to name the people and companies fighting RTR.
Let them destroy themselves with their own words and greed.
Re: GIVE THESE BASTARDS A NAME (Score:3, Informative)
Apple and John Deere are some, anyone know of any more?
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They included the Association of Equipment Manufacturers, wireless industry group CTIA, TechNet, the technology industry lobby, the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers (AHAM) and more.
In other words lobbyists. Feel free to dig into who pays their bills and let the rest of us know.
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But New Hampshire would be the first to pass such a bill, and for good reason, said Matt Mincieli, the Northeast executive director of TechNet, a technology advocacy organization that includes companies like Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft, Verizon and Uber. Bills in other states, including Massachusetts, have gotten no traction.
“This bill would be a gift to cybercriminals,” Mincieli wrote in the Concord Monitor, and circulated the article to the lawmakers. And he testified at the hearing, “No one really knows once we open up tech to anyone. Who would protect your security?”
The bill would scare technology companies away from New Hampshire, he insisted, and it’s so broad that it would affect nearly every type of industry.
The bill, he noted, didn’t just ask companies to reveal schematics, but also diagnostic software, services access passwords, updates and corrections to firmware (though advocates said it wouldn’t reveal encrypted security information).
Indeed, the bill drew testimony from beyond usual technology suspects: securities companies, the entertainment and gaming industry and even farm equipment.
William Taranovich, Jr., president of North Country Tractor, an authorized John Deere dealer from Pembroke, testified brandishing a long screwdriver and a laptop. In 1991, he mainly used the former to fix equipment, but today even chainsaw repairs need proprietary software, “so the saw won’t jump up and hit you in the face.”
Apple, Amazon, Facebook, John Deere, Microsoft, Verizon and Uber
I am somewhat terrified that John Deere recommends maintenance on operating machinery.
source: TechNet report [technet.org]
How is this any different from car repair? (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone who doesn't know what they're doing could injure themselves in countless ways. But I still have the choice to change the brakes on a car myself, if I'm confident I can do the job. Otherwise, I can go down the street and pay a mechanic to do it. In no event do I need Ford or GM's permission to touch the brakes. If I own a car I can do whatever I want with it.
Too many companies want to make everyone a renter instead of an owner, and use the government as a weapon to enforce their shitty business models.
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If I own a car I can do whatever I want with it.
The auto industry is trying to change that. Fortunately, we consumers have big corporations who are in the DYI and independent auto-repair industry to fight it. NAPA (Genuine Auto Parts), O'Reilly's, Autozone, Advance, Pep Boys, Goodyear, America's Auto, etc.... have a vested interest.
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Except on a Tesla. Changing your brakes is illegal.
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Simple: In their eyes, obviously your right to repair your car should be removed as well. And car makers tried that. It just created enough outcry because the dumb masses _finally_ got a clue what is going on and started to say something.
It is true that right-to-repair will cause some accidents and cost some lives. But so is allowing people to ride a bike, for example. Overall, the figures will be small and meaningless and vastly offset by the quality of life gained.
high cost restore disks / roms / software that som (Score:2)
high cost restore disks / roms / software that some embedded hardware systems is an other. Why should I pay + shipping for an SD card and can't just get the image to load on my own card?
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And you're perfectly free to open up your iPhone or Android or whatever and do anything you like to it. Fix it yourself. Pay someone else to do so. Break it up and sell the parts to others. Leave it in the box in the hope that it somehow becomes a collector's item. Put it in a Vitamix and upload the video to YouTube. Once money has changed hands, the phone is yours to do with as you please and the seller cannot stop you by legal means, or any other.
You already have the right to repair your own hardwar
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You may be unaware of a legal concept known as construction.
When a manufacturer takes steps to make sure parts are unavailable, repair information can't be published, and goes out of their way to have a properly speced repair part not work (for example, by requiring a software tool to "introduce" the part to the system, they are constructively denying your right to repair.
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> These businesses simply don't want to bother to establish, for instance, their own supply chains for spare parts.
And how, pray tell, is ANYONE supposed to establish "their own supply chain for spare parts" when the parts are built by a vertically-integrated company for themselves, to specs that aren't public, with DRM to make reverse-engineering any embedded software "problematic" at best (and quite possibly impossible, technically and/or legally)?
I honestly don't think Tesla (just to name one specifi
extrapolating to the extreme (Score:5, Insightful)
gasoline because everybody will put it in baggies and huff it
bananas because everybody will dry the peeling and smoke it
automobiles because everybody will use them as weapons of mass destruction
electricity because everybody will use it on salt water to make chlorine gas
yada yada
It's so blatantly obvious that the lobbyists are not lobbying for the health and well being of normal citizens that even a politician could see it.
Wait
Re: extrapolating to the extreme (Score:2)
What I seem to recall is that you need hundreds of pounds of banana peel scrapings to produce a small quantity of the stuff...
Re: extrapolating to the extreme (Score:2)
That'd be caffeine (Score:2)
The only (known) drug in Mello Yello [wikipedia.org] is caffeine. It's the same drug that's in Mountain Dew [wikipedia.org], which also has a song named after it [wikipedia.org].
The Donovan song is about an intimate massage device.
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The Donovan song is about an intimate massage device.
Unless his song refers to sticking a banana up his ass, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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The song is indeed about inserting a banana-shaped device into one's intimate parts. According to the article you linked, an "electrical banana" was a banana-shaped vibrator popular at the time.
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It just goes to show how useless echo chambers are for accuracy.
Sadly, the Internet - when it comes to certain subjects - can be the biggest and worst echo chamber...
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...on your list don't forget "Assault Rifles" because everybody will use them to commit murder
Quiet you! (Score:2)
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gasoline because everybody will put it in baggies and huff it
Funny you should say that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Mind you the latest craze is those people in those communities are huffing avgas with all of it's leaded goodness.
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>"So the predictable actions of a small percentage of consumers should be extrapolated to the general population?"
That certainly seems to be the current mindset of gun control advocates. Despite study after study showing such increased control does NOT stop or deter the tiny percent of bad people and DOES hurt good people.
With freedom, there is some risk. No matter what the thing is being discussed. If you want the freedom to repair things, there will always be some added risk. But without that freed
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>"Australia used to gave gun problems."
And they still do. Their "gun violence" was already going down, year after year UNTIL their confiscation. Then it stalled before returning to the previous downward trend. "Gun violence" in the USA has also been steadily going down and down. But don't let facts get in the way of your beliefs...
>"Now they regularly bust people with millions of dollars of drugs & no gun because the gun would be REAL JAIL TIME."
Duh, "the gun" would be "real jail time" in the
very simple solution! merge with gun laws. (Score:2)
put it together with gun laws.
if a tractor can be used to avoid EPA regulations and destroy the world, a gun can also be used to kill.
So put them under the same law. Either you allow guns, and modification of tractors. Or you ban both guns and modifications of tractors.
Growing up (Score:5, Interesting)
I remember growing up, our washing machine occasionally wandered around the utility room. It also didn't stop if you opened the lid. Somehow, I never even got a bruise from it, but I did get a good laugh once when my Mom tried and failed to stop it from wandering.
On the other hand, I also remember reports a few years ago about some brand or another violently disassembling itself due to a manufacturing defect and the maker swearing it wasn't at all dangerous.
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I remember growing up, our washing machine occasionally wandered around the utility room. It also didn't stop if you opened the lid. Somehow, I never even got a bruise from it, but I did get a good laugh once when my Mom tried and failed to stop it from wandering.
How, by sitting on it? Bet she got a good laugh, too.
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She tried to push down on it to make it stop like my dad once did, but she's not heavy enough.
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You also have to apply enough force at that point to overcome the energy being input to the system.
It's much easier to control where it walks to than it is to stop it from walking.
runaway washing machines? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Of course, if it's ACTUALLY a rental (and not actually a purchase on credit with an end run around usury and banking laws) , isn't whoever rented it to you supposed to be on the hook for repairs?
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Right to Root (Score:5, Interesting)
I want the software equivalent, which is the right to root. If I want to root my phone and uninstall all the bloatware, that's my business, and the vendor should be required to let me do so. And if they've put in technical measures to prevent that, they need to provide a way for me to bypass them.
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Fully agree on that.
ffs sake, lets count the ways (Score:2)
phone. My last phone had a replaceable battery, and I replaced it. Got years out of that phone before it got too slow to be useful.
ebook reader. Bought a Kindle Fire for, I dunno, $180 or so? 2 years ago. Battery is dying, took to an iFixIt store, they can't find the battery and tell me it will cost at least $
Re:ffs sake, lets count the ways (Score:5, Informative)
(1) Safety razor.
(2) Cheapie phones designed for developing-country and poor-area use (low-end Moto and Samsung) typically still have removable batteries. You just won't impress a date with them, which might be a good test anyway.
(3) Ebook reader? Just use a laptop and get access to a good e-library site.
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Have you ever *tried* reading on an e-ink screen? way better than a laptop.
Re: ffs sake, lets count the ways (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah I'm with that other anon, an e-reader with a real e-ink screen is the next best thing to a real book. Sometimes better, in my experience. I've tried reading books on computer screens, laptops, and phones, even a DS Lite, and no LCD compares with e-ink. My old ereader fit in my left hand and I could change pages with a thumb swipe (new one is a bit too bulky for that unfortunately) and I can't tell you how fabulous it is to read a book one handed. No pressing on pages to flatten, easy to read in my side
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I have a pretty decent eink reader, but I don't use it and prefer to read on my phone.
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(1a) Safety razor with replaceable blade. $20 for a decent handle, blades are dirt cheap (under $10 for a 50 pack).
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Straight razor is the way to go. All you have to do is sharpen it.
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Also stop using canned shaving cream, get a good quality badger hair brush with a stand and cake shaving soap. The brush will last forever and cost per shave of soap is pennies. You can find all sorts of interesting scents as well.
The only time I got a better shave was in a barber shop where they put
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and cake shaving soap
Or a tube of Proraso cream. That stuff kicks ass.
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I'll have to try the leaving the wet soap for a bit.
I use a safety razor (can't be bothered to sharpen or strope a straight razor every time I want to use it) and the platinum blades - I just bought 300 of them for about 10 bucks. I think I basically have blades for life now, as each one lasts me 2 weeks or more. I do get excess moisture off the blade when I'm done - supposed to help make them last.
With the cost of disposables and canned shaving cream - best move I ever made.
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Lobbyist... (Score:2)
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Indeed. Right above politicians. They are utterly dumb in addition. Lobbyists tend to be pretty smart, just without morals.
Self driving cars (Score:2)
Re:Self driving cars (Score:4, Insightful)
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Point me to where the constitution says anything about what car's I can drive
second amendment bro, now stand in front of my headlights, I'm going to try something.
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Point me to where the constitution says anything about what car's I can drive. It do'snt.
So I can do as I like, and you are a libcuck fagass.
--
cayenne8
I like how you included your sig after you posted as AC. Classy move.
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Modifying safety-critical components on equipment used in public should require you to be a licensed expert and have insurance. That said, of course getting that license and getting that insurance should be open to anybody that has the requires skill-level. There are other professions were that works and the balance is there.
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Lets not do that. We have managed just fine allowing people to repair their cars and lawn mowers without a special license for as long as those things have existed.
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Basically you just said I need to be a licensed expert and be insured before I be ALLOWED to change the brake pads on my '65 mustang.
I don't usually sling mud, but yours was an idiotic statement.
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Why not, I have the right to repair or modify the steering on my car. If you modify the autosteer badly, you are the most likely person to die.
Right to Repair is a misnomer (Score:1)
An honest right to repair would mean no legal repercussions for repairing something you own. However, these laws are typically about forcing manufacturers to change design decisions to accommodate tinkerers and third-party repairers, or to make schematics, guides, and tools available. So there's no legitimate right to repair being advocated; it's all smoke and mirrors in an attempt to give new obligations to hardware vendors.
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Bullshit and you know it. This information and the modifications are in reality a requirement to not actively sabotage repair attempts. Go away shill.
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They're not forced to, they could just not sell their irreparable junk anymore if they like.
Go tell that to whoever you're shilling for.
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These bills force one private entity to do business with another. Whatâ(TM)s right or fair about that
These "private entities" are *corporations*, which do not even exist except through an act of government. If the corporation wants to conduct business by selling an item likely to need service at some point, it's well within the government's purview to make it a requirement that the item be user-serviceable, particularly when it imposes relatively little burden on the corporation.
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I had to resort to underhanded tactics of getting the m
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All that the right-to-repair laws I have seen require is that the manufacturer provide to 3rd parties anything (tools, diagnostic hardware and software, spare parts, consumables, whatever) that they provide to their own service shops or to manufacturer-authorized service shops.
So if John Deere authorized service centres can buy replacement transmissions from John Deere and can get the tools/hardware/software to reset the tractor computer so it will accept the new transmission, anyone who wants to repair tra
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However, these laws are typically about forcing manufacturers to change design decisions to accommodate tinkerers and third-party repairers, or to make schematics, guides, and tools available.
In case you were unaware, manufacturers already have to produce these materials for their registered service agents. Under RTR they're not having to create anything new, they just have to provide it to everybody on a fair and reasonable basis.
Obfuscation by design (Score:5, Insightful)
These guys are purposely conflating repair with modification.
Pick one and stick to it (Score:2)
Let consumers, not the government, decide (Score:2)
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But if the most consumer desireable device can not be made repairable, let the consumer decide.
Consumers are too stupid to decide many aspects of capitalist society, sorry to tell ya. That's how we got fake news and anti-vaxxers. The average human being is too stupid to govern himself in many important areas of society which is why society is so fucked up to begin with.
Just look at videogames, the videogame industry has successfully stolen software by letting "the consumer decide". We got DRM, broken games and stolen games out the wazoo.
Size claim (Score:1)
A lot of their arguments seem to be that small companies are less ethical than large ones.
So long, and thanks for increasing the garbage (Score:1)
The farmers are the ones suffering the most (Score:2)
Sure electronics get all the headlines but as one post pointed out the farmers are the ones shafted the worst.
They're locked into a service contract when they buy new equipment. There's no choice, So if something breaks that they can fix the equipment still won't work until a factory tech shows up and enters the secret code that tells the thing it's OK to run. They don't do any more than that but the farmer is stuck without working equipment while his crops rot. And then he has to pay for the bill for this
bribery isn't working? (Score:2)
Are you telling me that the standard practice of just giving a lot of money to politicians to get the laws they want is no longer working?
It strikes me as too much to hope that the typical voter gives a rat's ass about the cost of repairs at "authorized" outlets vs some local small business. So why bother with the scare tactics?
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Because it's not just about being able to take your item to a local shop. I recently replaced the power steering pump and intercooler in my truck. I paid about $100 in parts, and did the work myself. Forcing the owner to take the vehicle to a factory authorized dealer and have them pay $800 for the same work would matter to me, and I'm quite sure, to a lot others.
We should make a "Right to Tax" law (Score:2)
Any time companies get a law passed that allows them to basically generate more massive landfill waste (intentionally or not) they need to be on the hook for the environmental costs.
$100,000 USD per tractor. $1,000 per iDevice. Etc.
I think Stephen King should sue for plagarism.... (Score:2)
Curious children could find themselves dismembered by run-away washing machines. A phalanx of illegally modified lawn tractors and leaf blowers will belch pollution in defiance of the EPA, darkening the sky... At least, that's the scene painted by representatives from some of the U.S.'s biggest industry groups
That will never happen unless an alien 'weather satellite' is in orbit somewhere..... SMH
unethical repair professionals? like the dealershi (Score:2)
unethical repair professionals? like the dealership??
Some dealerships want a $100 min just to look at the issue vs other shops that will gave an free estimate
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Charging for an estimate isn't necessarily unethical. You can't always diagnose a problem without doing some degree of disassembly and inspection. Personally, I'd RATHER pay someone a fair price to give me an accurate, detailed, written diagnosis & do a good job of carefully putting my car back together than get a "free" estimate that ends up causing even MORE damage because the pissed-off mechanic did a sloppy job of reassembly after I decided to get another quote from someone else.
With an accurate, de
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Agreed. The diagnosis takes time away from other work, so I don't have a problem with paying for it. $100 for a diagnosis that I can follow up on myself later is still a bargain if it's something I can fix myself and would cost a substantial amount of my own time otherwise.
Of course, it's just the opposite! (Score:2)
(...) would (...) leave (...) consumers vulnerable to (...) physical harm at the hands of clueless owners and inexperienced or unethical repair professionals.
In reality, it’s much more likely that granting easy access to “the same documentation, parts and tools [...] as [...] licensed or "authorized" repair professionals” would reduce , rather than increase, the odds of injuries and non-compliant modifications (a.k.a. hacked repairs by uninformed tinkerers or desperate owners). And perhaps not only by enabling better repairs, but also by promoting better/cheaper regular maintenance.
Simple solution (Score:2)
Well, if I'm not allowed to repair my machine on my own (if I'm so inclined), then I guess I don't have to worry about paying to have the broken product taken to the dump. I can just drop it on the sidewalk of these "authorised repair" facilities and get something else. They want to control the stupid thing that badly, they can take care of its disposal.
The other alternative is to jerry-rig a fix anyway. If they don't like it, too damned bad.
Build to Repair (Score:2)
The problem is products are not built to repair, which is by design and for multiple reasons:
I own it. I'll take it apart, by God. (Score:2)
The idea that we are not allowed to look inside and fix some device that we have purchased and own is insane, totalitarian, and antithetical to everything America stands for. Self-reliance? Uh-uh. We're all too stupid to touch the insides of our high-tech devices or, heaven forbid, reprogram the computers that control them. This should not be a matter of copyright or patent, as I am not considering copying the device and manufacturing it myself without paying royalties to the owner of the design. I jus
The US. (Score:2)
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And we can tell them that with legislation in the public interest with the added benefit covers the many cases where the manufacturer didn't notify the customer before sale that every effort to make the device irreparable has been made.