Ask Slashdot: Is It Ethical To Purchase Electronics Products Made In China? 375
dryriver writes: A lot of people seem to think it's O.K. to buy electronics made in China. We get to buy products considerably cheaper than we otherwise would, and China by all accounts is growing, developing, and modernizing as a nation due to all the cool stuff they now make for the world. There is only one problem with that reasoning. 21st Century China has an atrocious human rights record, and almost all human rights watchdogs report that China is becoming more and more repressive each year. Freedom House put it this way in 2018: "It's worth noting that, in its attitude toward political dissent, the Chinese Communist Party has proven much harsher than the old Soviet regime of the Brezhnev era. Modern Chinese sentences are longer, the prospects for early release are far worse, and the Chinese authorities are generally unmoved by pleas for leniency from foreign diplomats." Basically, consumer dollars from around the world are not gradually creating a gentler, freer, more prosperous and more modern China at all. They are making the Chinese Communist Party richer, stronger, bolder and more aggressive and repressive in every respect. To the question: knowing what the human rights situation is in China, and that consumer dollars and euros flowing into the country from abroad is making things worse, not better, is it at all ethical to buy electronics or IT products manufactured in China?
It's not ethical to live in the US at all (Score:3, Insightful)
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Refusing to buy from China will just make the people living there even poorer, it won't change their government.
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Ethics in personal purchases are up to the individual based upon the many choices available at the time relating to honesty, true product worth, reliability, country of origin. Why buy from a local company if all the local companies bullshit their customers, buy foriegn from where ever. Same with rip off pricing, government protected.
Ethics, well, when it comes to essential infrastructure, well that is high level survival of the society ethics. Should all infrastructure elements be locally produced in pref
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Refusing to buy from China will just make the people living there even poorer, it won't change their government.
Yes, it will change their government. Not in the way they think or operate internally, of course -- but rather, in the influence their government has on the rest of the world.
If the PRC was a poor-as-fuck little nation (instead of the current economic powerhouse), do you think they'd still have the current impact on world affairs that they do?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
While you state facts...
I believe you are getting "FUCK OFF" because, let's be honest, your comment has absolutely nothing to do with the topic and could really be considered troll-like behavior. In fact by you attempting to insert your agenda into this thread you really do more harm to the facts your speaking about because others will see this as a racially motivated comment.
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
No one ever wonders "how come rich people commit fewer crimes?" or "why do white people commit crimes against their white neighbors instead of driving across time to the black neighborhood?"
Given that this is slashdot, I don't know what's worse. That this earlier AC is being sincere and is really that deluded, or that this is just another troll trying to wind people up.
Re: What to avoid in the US: Blacks (Score:4, Informative)
I know well the story of our Navy, the Marines, and the history and traditions embodied in the Marine Corps Hymn.
But how that relates to the assertion that "regardless of color or ethnicity, not a single one of us is without an ancestor who was a slave." escapes me.
Now, if you're wondering how it was that our nation, the United States of America, found itself battling Muslim pirates so early in our history, consider that this was a response to the restraint of trade imposed by the Barbary Pirates on so many nations, the inability of so many of those other nations to take the measures necessary to respond and re-establish free passage on the seas, and our need to trade cotton, slave-harvested, with Europe.
Sound familiar? It ought to.
At that time Europe was still battling the results of Muslim invasions, and feared antagonizing the Empire, which could not be good for them. Europe was also mired in their incessant internecine squabbles, especially at the time Western Europe, with colonization fever at the highest pitch. The French Revolution would not help this region. American influence was welcomed, tacitly, as we took the initiative, secured by our ocean border, and assumed our ongoing role as the world's policemen of (mostly) last resort. To this day our Navy has, as its primary mission, defense of the free flow of goods over the seas, for all nations. And we still find opposition to that free passage, don't we? Not just the Somali pirates, either...
The Ottoman Empire, while by some measures decrepit in the end, wasn't disbanded that long ago, My mother would have been born before that. World War Two finally finished it off, and set off an era of Middle East unrest, with the entirely predictable consequences. The end of the 'Cold War' permitted Eastern European conflicts to reoccur, similarly predictable. And in all this, the militant Muslims are still looking to expand their control and dominance, not just in the Middle East, but to Europe and beyond. Not much has changed since the Crusades, it seems.
And Europe finds itself in the midst of another invasion. So also are we now facing an invasion. And a revolution-in-the-making. A revolution coming, and one inspired by the same philosophies and intentions as so many in this era. We have choices to make, and soon.
But the assertion, again, that "regardless of color or ethnicity, not a single one of us is without an ancestor who was a slave." is nearly specious. You have to go back, in my family tree, to the beginnings of Albion, and possibly before. What difference, at this point, does it make?
Right (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Right (Score:5, Insightful)
The context has also changed a lot.
It used to be believed by reasonable people that communism and capitalism were fundamentally incompatible, and tat capitalism brought democracy along with it. History justified those beliefs, at the time. Sending business to China was seen as a way to subvert the communist/totalitarian system by injecting capitalism.
However, China has proven that a totalitarian communist system can incorporate a lot of capitalism and just keep on oppressing. I think that changes the answer, at least for some of us.
Of course, there's also the question of the ethics of globalism vs protectionism, but that's not specific to China.
Re:Right (Score:4, Insightful)
However, China has proven that a totalitarian communist system can incorporate a lot of capitalism and just keep on oppressing.
I think China has proven that a totalitarian communist system can incorporate a lot of capitalism and just keep on oppressing for a while. Xi Jinping has been seriously cracking down, true, but I think it's still too soon to count out the rising middle class. The problem is that for capitalism to work you have to give people a fair degree of economic freedom, and that makes them begin to expect quite a bit of social freedom as well.
How long will it take? That's hard to say. Chinese culture is quite different from Western culture, and especially American culture. We have a streak of independence and disrespect for authority that they largely lack (or flip it around, they have a respect for social good and authority that we lack). So it's a given that China will never mirror us. But I think they're going to move much further in that direction and that totalitarian control will be shaken off, due to capitalism.
Re:Right (Score:5, Interesting)
Nothing will happen any time soon because for most Chinese people things are improving rapidly, and they are are happy about it. I've seen the house where my wife grew up - it's made of stone, no windows, no plumbing... And now her mother lives in a seven story mansion, as do most of her old neighbours.
The Communist Party knows that things will have to keep changing though, if they want to avoid the firing squad forever. It will be interesting to see which direction they go with it. In some ways Hong Kong is an experiment for them, to see what the mainland's future could be like.
Re:Right (Score:5, Insightful)
How on earth do you possibly know that? You have access to a parallel universe where China didn't become an electronics manufacturing center? Perhaps you have a delorean? How on earth can you possibly claim to know that Western consumer dollars are making things worse not better?
You're probably looking at all the fancy shmancy tech Western dollars support - great firewalls, social credit scores, surveillance and tracking technology, etc. What about the flip side - the rising Chinese middle class? The people getting jobs with Chinese electronics giants? I don't mean the manufacturers like Foxconn... more firms like Huwai, Xiaomi, ZTE, etc. Even the Foxconns, as bad as they are, may be a better alternative to rural farm life for unskilled workers. Tens of millions died in Chinese famines not that long ago.
So you have a few hundred thousand people who get jailed and treated inhumanely, versus hundreds of millions moving into a vaguely middle class lifestyle. How do you weigh the social utility of that tradeoff and unflinchingly conclude that it's negative? How do you assume an authoritarian regime isn't what most people in China want, regardless of how abhorrent it is to Western cultures?
Nation building doesn't work. Colonialism doesn't work. Mercantilism doesn't work. Of all the choices available, trade and economic prosperity seems by far the best choice. Even if it doesn't bring Western culture with it.
Let the Chinese people deal with the Chinese government. Keep your nose in your own business.
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You mean the same China who is putting people of certain religions in re-education camps, and who is sacking captured territories? The same China that uses people for medical research... or just sells their organs on the market? The same China making military fortifications as a way to harass ships and claim territory that isn't theirs?
Sorry. I won't buy Chinese if I can help it. It can mean one less missile aimed at my kids, one less bullet aimed at a Western soldier. I refuse to support a totalitaria
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Conditions for most Chinese people have improved immeasurably in the last few decades. Factory jobs are sought after, the conditions are pretty good now too because there is so much competition for good workers. The young are rejecting the old "996" model (work from 9 AM to 9 PM, 6 days a week) seeing opportunities in education and new industries.
Economic development brings social development and liberalization.
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"A few hundred thousand .." ? It looks like your count may be a bit low. Here's a report just about a single ethnic group in China:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/22/chinas-mass-internment-camps-have-no-clear-end-in-sight/ [foreignpolicy.com]
hmmm (Score:2)
Its a valid question from a western POV, however historically when was China this "gentler, freer, more prosperous"?
I think any one culture cannot impose their ideology on another and come away feeling good.
Chinese people Are more prosperous, free, and have always been gentle. can't say the same about their government but that is an internal Chinese issue.
same can be said about other cultures we seem to be at an odds with.
Re:hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)
Saying "... that is an internal Chinese issue" is a key point of discussion. That number is about 1/5th of the entire world's population. To ignore 1/5th of humanity and how they're evolving is an enormous mistake.
The "eastern" point of view is becoming much like the "western" point of view, with onerous twists, like mass speech control, and enormous population shifts. Add to this, hundreds of thousands of encamped Western Chinese Muslims. Huge military growth. Ancient unsolved problems, like Taiwan and the madness of Tibetan sovereignty.
The value of life is much different than the "western" legacies. Those western cultures decimated Africa, held huge pogroms for the past millennia, and have polluted and fouled the planet. The Chinese are just catching up to western mistakes, and learning how to amplify control for party success.
There is no "we are at odds with". The planet is very small. You can fly anywhere in about a day. Radio, satellites, the Internet, all link us together. But there is also a common morality that should link us together, and we don't really think about that. Instead, it's the job of most politicians to factionalize us and make us feel our tribal urges, fattening military budgets, and scraping the cream for the kleptocrats. The Chinese face the same wealth disparities as westerners face. Their freedom is questionable and freedom/liberty are measured in ways that thinkers agree upon.
The world is not perfect (Score:2)
The world is not perfect. The United States is *far* from perfect and getting worse in many ways. But none of this excuses China from egregious rights violations so yes, there absolutely is an ethical responsibility to avoid purchasing products made in China, just as there is with Israel.
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one should buy the stuff.. (Score:3)
Stats wise, you should buy the stuff.
I mean their egregious rights violations are not nearly as bad as during cultural revolution or during their civil war - so clearly buying the stuff is actually _working_ to improve the situation.
Even their attitude towards piracy and rights violations is "better" than it has ever been.
so. there's that. it's actually kind of working.
however, as it is pretty hard to buy something that wouldn't have anything from china the whole question is kind of moot. It's also pretty h
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So you're fine with Israel's oppression and human rights abuses but not China's? Where do you draw the line exactly?
If a country has worse abuses than China can we start buying chinese goods again?
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Did you just compare the human rights/freedom situation in China to the free/democratic ISRAEL?? Seriously?
Where would you like to draw the 'moral line'? At what point does human suffering become acceptable when compared to another?
"ethical"? (Score:5, Insightful)
>"Is It Ethical To Purchase Electronics Products Made In China?"
Here are some reply questions: Do we even have a choice? Exactly what can I buy that isn't made in China? What is the proposed solution? Ban imports from China? Is THAT "ethical"? Drive prices up so high on products that poorer people here can't afford to buy anything? Is THAT "ethical"? Is it "ethical" to try and interfere with another sovereign nation's political and operational process? Even if we restricted trade based on "ethicality", how effective would that be? (We are far from their only market) And how much influence would we THEN have? Is there some difference between electronics/IT and any other products we buy from China? (Other than perhaps spyware, which has nothing to do with human rights inside THEIR borders).
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I have a friend who tries to buy goods that are at least not assembled in China. I keep telling him to start a blog to help other people do the same, but he won't do it. And as a shameless transition to a video clip, he's Jewish [youtube.com].
Re:"ethical"? (Score:5, Informative)
What is the proposed solution? Ban imports from China? Is THAT "ethical"? Drive prices up so high on products that poorer people here can't afford to buy anything? Is THAT "ethical"?
I think the answer is to place tariffs on goods from other nations based on how workers are treated in those countries. If it's legal and/or permitted to pay them slave wages, we should put sufficient tariffs on the products that it's not economically beneficial to pay them slave wages. If they get something in between that and an actual living wage, then the tariff should be somewhere in between, too.
It's not a perfect solution because that alone will actually encourage some employers to pay slave wages, but it's not really feasible to place those tariffs on a per-corporation basis, and the goal is to put pressure on the governments.
Re:"ethical"? (Score:5, Interesting)
So as the USA pays minimal wage that is below an actual living wage, the rest of the world should put on a tariffs on goods from the USA.
is that what your telling us?
Re:"ethical"? (Score:4, Interesting)
So as the USA pays minimal wage that is below an actual living wage, the rest of the world should put on a tariffs on goods from the USA.
is that what your telling us?
Yep. If it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. I'm not proud of American wages or employment.
Wrong question. (Score:5, Insightful)
For huge numbers of end consumers, there's not much choice. With wage stagnation and general costs of living generally increasing, the cheap Chinese-made thing is all they can afford. If there even is an option made somewhere else. Assuming the other options aren't made by companies being just as exploitative.
The real question should be, "is it ethical for corporations to outsource all their manufacturing to China?"
STAR WNRS! (Score:2)
Electronics? No, totally unethical. For shame! Now excuse my while I go play with my totally legit Lego.
https://legoways.com/wp-conten... [legoways.com]
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I bet these are produced at Lego factories in China (or copies of the manufacturing hardware used in China). They come with the custom springs, tubes, and non-rectangular things and have the same extra pieces, just without the company logo (probably a check box). Stickers are the same as well, mostly.
Lego used to be produced only in Europe. Now China and Mexico are primary production areas.
They had no qualms about moving production to reduce costs (but still charge $$$$), and I have no qualms about purch
Data is needed (Score:2)
Where is the data that the Chinese government is doing worse than eg during Tiananmen. Sure they have cracked down on "dissent" but that's partially because we've been politically rather quiet the last few decades because we wanted them to purchase our debt. I think China is all around better off, even though their politics still suck, society there has become markedly more "liberal" although still very much far left.
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Uhm, there are a lot of things going on in China that's fsck up.
For example:
China's hidden camps [bbc.co.uk]
Organ harvesting in China [forbes.com]
Mass sterilization in China [nypost.com]
Just go to google and start typing china forced to see the common theme.
Missing from TFS ... (Score:5, Funny)
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... "Sent from my iPhone."
Apple products typically say "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China". So that makes it ok, it is at least semi-ethical.
I'm trying as best as I can to avoid Maid in Chian (Score:3)
I'm really trying my best to avoid Made in China.
Need labelmaker? Got a 1977 Dymo 1570 embosser for almost spare change. I'm not giving China (or Dymo) a red fucking cent. Refills? I buy vintage from ebay. Seriously, a few 9' rolls should last a lifetime.
Somehow I lost my 30-year old Stanley measuring tape. Instead of getting one from Home Depot (made in China) I got an old Powerlock II from Ebay. Works fine.
Need an umbrella after the handle on my Totes went to shit (and the "warranty replacements died like that too")? Bought a Fox, made in England. I'm not giving China (or totes) a red fucking cent. So what if it cost 4x what a Totes costs. It'll last 4x longer.
Where they got me is the phones. Or "new" things. But if there's even a remote chance I can get Thing X that's old and made anywhere but china, I'll buy it.
It's not really just Fuck China, it's more "Fuck the Companies that Manufacture in China, are based Here and don't even pay taxes."
That's what voting with your wallet means. It would've been easier to get these things New, but no. Fuck 'em.
I would like to think more people are thinking like this. SOme of the folks I work with do. Some of my friends do too.
If you can afford it, don't buy China. Seriously. Don't. Fuck the companies who manufacture in China where it hurts them.
This is not for everyone. Most people want it NAO NAO NAO DAMMIT! WAAAH! Fuck that. Patience is rewarded with sweet things.
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Need labelmaker? Got a 1977 Dymo 1570 embosser for almost spare change.
I bought a new one. The letter spacing is much wider. The labels don't look nearly as nice and the labels take up more room.
Bought a Fox, made in England
TIL. I'll lokk out for them next time I'm in the market.
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You avoid maids in China? Are you referring to house-maids, or are you using "maid" to refer to young women in general? Why are you so scared of women?
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You avoid maids in China? Are you referring to house-maids, or are you using "maid" to refer to young women in general? Why are you so scared of women?
Maid in Chian is a bit of an old joke in vacuum-tube hi-fi (and maybe the guitar/bass people too). In the early 2000's there was a run of tubes made in China that read "Erection Tube / Maid in Chian" instead of "Electron Tube / Made in China." If they can't even spell the fucking thing right, how do we know the complicated innards are well-made? (They weren't.)
I'm open to maids from any country, but I want my vacuum tubes made in USA, Germany or the UK, por favor. I'll take JJ from what was Yugoslavia,
Ethical is a loaded question (Score:2)
It's not like there are a lot of options outside of Taiwan or South Korea for electronics.
The real question should be "Is it safe to buy electronics from China?"
Another good question would be "Is it safe to buy food from China?" Large amounts of pork and chicken products are processed in China, with 2 boat trips for the products.
Ethical to Purchase from the US? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Question really is just too narrowly framed (Score:2)
We should be considering: whether we need the product at all; the full weighted impact of a purchase -- yes, human rights, and also environmental impacts (CO2e, minerals extraction etc), and social costs and benefits, and so on; the practical alternatives and the differential impact of each choice (eg sourcing from S Korea vs China); etc etc.
And while the choices are in the end binary (buy or don't buy), the world is more finely graded.
Two Options (Score:2)
You have two options
1) Buy from China
2) Buy from Amazon, Ebay, etc from sellers who ultimately themselves buy from China
So we can either buy direct from China, or buy indirect, at a higher price, from a reseller that buys from China.
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Or buy products that claim to made somewhere that isn't China, while absolutely containing components and/or materials that did come from China.
Reverse the question ... (Score:2)
... for the answer.
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... for the answer.
?anihC nI edaM stcudorP scinortcelE esahcruP oT lacihtE tI sI
Doesn't seem to clear it up for me.
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Nice. :)
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The question is in the form of "if A then B."
What if it were reversed to, "if B then A?"
Is it ethical for China to purchase products made in the US or containing parts made in the US?
There's your answer.
Re: (Score:2)
Human rights... (Score:4, Interesting)
I think the poster should take the log out their eye, because the US is no better! Massive amounts of homelessness, 50% of bankruptcies due to healthcare costs, something that is considered a basic human right in the rest of the western world. MUCH higher prison population per capita than any other country. The government is literally stealing social security. Gerrymandering making elections all but a foregone conclusion. Voter suppression that isn't very different than ballot box stuffing that happens in Russia. I think this is the single stupidest post ever on slashdot.
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The US is a laughing stock to many other countries, and can be considered rapidly sliding towards third world by several measures, but you are very foolish for comparing human rights infringements of the US to that of China.
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Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
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Re:Human rights... (Score:4)
I think the poster should take the log out their eye, because the US is no better!
Bullshit. The US certainly has plenty of problems and is hardly the shining beacon on a hill it would like to think it is. But if you think China is the same, then you don't know much about China. Go read about the Great Firewall, and about social credit scores, and about the treatment of the Uighurs and the Tibetans. Learn something about how the Chinese government treats the poor rural people, especially the non-Han ethnicities. Take a look at how politics is conducted, with regular purges and disappearances of political enemies. Notice how Xi Jinping is very close to establishing himself as dictator for life, and how "Xi Jinping Thought" is being made into a mandatory doctrine not only for government officials, but for university educators, the media and even school children.
Yeah, the US has problems, but you're creating one whale of a false equivalency.
Is international trade ethical? (Score:2)
That question leads to broader "Is international trade ethical?"
We perform international trade because products are cheaper, but one of the causes for the price the difference are different labor and environmental laws that we would not want at home.
It depends on what kind of ethics philosophy (Score:2)
Next dumb open-ended question?
I'm down so long as the world reciprocates (Score:4, Interesting)
Given USA is the worlds top jailer and starter of elective never ending wars costing hundreds of thousands of lives I'm down with BDS China so long as the rest of the world does the same to the United States.
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well yes, african americans are pretty rare outside of the americas. By definition.
There are two lines of reasoning here (Score:2)
The second li
China (Score:2)
recent change (Score:5, Insightful)
Then something changed. China started backsliding. The most obvious symptom of this is Xi Jingping, who has actively pulled the country back towards autocracy, but there's a long list of things that suggest our "do business with them and they'll improve" strategy isn't working any more. A lot of foreign policy types are concluding that a change is needed. I've read that even most pro-Chinese economists in the West have concluded that China is sliding backwards. The carrot isn't working any more, so governments are trying a bit of stick instead. They're not going to have much luck expanding their overseas businesses for the next decade or two.
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Thank you for asking the question (Score:2)
Thank you for asking this question. It is something that I think about constantly. When the reports about the poor working conditions in Foxconn factories first came out years ago, I decided to boycott Apple and never buy another one of their products.
Now, yes, I do understand that it's hypocritical to continue to hold that boycott because there are so many places that manufacture their goods at Foxconn. I have tried to only buy goods that are not made in those factories, but it's virtually impossible these
Try buying electronics NOT made in China (Score:2)
Nearly impossible. Almost all of the electronic components are made in China now. I'd say nearly 100% of the TVs, cellphones, a lot of the home appliances, pretty soon, Chevy passenger cars.
How can we buy electronics that are not made in China?
Our U.S. companies have shut down manufacturing and moved it to China in the majority of consumer products.
RESPECT the Chinese ! They are wonderful people (Score:2)
I can't believe this BS.
Who are these people who think they can preach to China ?
Are they from a country with a huge percentage of its population in jail ?
China has had a civilization for >6000 years.
They generally DON'T start wars try to tell the rest of the world how to live.
They are incredibly smart and industrious.
The have universal health care, guaranteed employment, and very low crime rate
Sure they have problems, but they have shown time and time again that they can solve big problems.
Most all of u
Here's what I do (Score:2)
- I buy refurbished whenever possible. On the upside: It's not only ethical in more ways than one, it gives you neat bargains aswell.
- If I buy new, I see to it that the gear will/could last me 10 years - at least in theory. Point in case: My MB Air is from early 2011 and still is useful.
- I always try to buy hardware that I could control or at least can usefully run offline if push comes to shove. With other things equal, I prefer hackable hardware over regular hardware.
I presume this approach will become
Is it ethical to trade with the Nazis? (Score:2)
Ooooh, that's a real tricky one, isn't it? I guess it depends on how much the slavery, oppression, and murder makes your life easier.
The real question (Score:2)
Asking the wrong question... (Score:2)
Practically, ethics are an issue when one has a choice. When there's a need, but no choice, ethical considerations become hazy, at best. One can always revisit how much XYZ is a *need* vs. a *want*, but if we're talking about the practicality of operating in the modern world, those needs are often pretty real.
So long as the cost remains che
Re:The luxury of asking that question.. (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, neither do I, but my parents keep talking about it.
Re:The luxury of asking that question.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:The luxury of asking that question.. (Score:5, Insightful)
isn't that part of the question, do you try to buy local/US made?
i do but its not always available even at a higher cost. and cost is part of the real equation. Not every one has the luxury to search for American made products, even the ones that are just packaged here.
can't talk about manufactured in China without talking about job loss or income inequality.
we must buy cheap because we can't afford anything more.
Re:The luxury of asking that question.. (Score:5, Interesting)
i do but its not always available even at a higher cost. and cost is part of the real equation.
This is something I often run into. For example, take the ubiquitous smart RGB LEDs like the WS2812 or APA102. They're great little devices that cost 15 cents or so and very useful for a lot of applications, but no one in the U.S. makes a comparable product at even 10 times the price, so you kinda *have* to get them from China if you want addressable RGB blinkenlights that fit in a 5050 form factor. TI makes some RGB controller chips, but they're not nearly as flexible or capable and don't have the controller and LEDs in a single package.
It may be because the Chinese companies have patents on them in the U.S., but that brings up another problem - in the U.S., intellectual property on such things is usually respected because the courts will smack you down if you don't. In China, it's a free-for-all (despite their government saying otherwise), with outright counterfeits (complete with counterfeit branding) being allowed to be imported into the U.S. You can't compete with that kind of tilted playing field.
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I can count the number of American products I bought in the past five years on that many fingers.
You're thinking consumer products not B2B stuff. The US manufactured quite a lot, but it's not low margin stuff that relies on cheap labour, poor working conditions and nonexistent environmental regulations.
Apart from big things like 787 airframes there's all sorts of incredibly obscure stuff that all sorts of industries run on that you won't have heard of.
Re:The luxury of asking that question.. (Score:5, Informative)
Did you buy gas for your car?
Did you or your office buy you some post-it notes?
Have you bought any medications lately?
Do you use Gillette razors?
Drink any cheap beer lately?
Plan on buying a Hallmark card for Valentine's day?
Buy a car in the last 5 years?
And this is just the kind of day-to-day products you'd probably run into. We *export* over $125 billion in machinery alone....
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It was a great commercial that essentially said "don't be a jerk". This greatly upset the jerks for some reason.
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Re: The luxury of asking that question.. (Score:3)
Speaking of post-it notes, paper products are one of Europe's top imports from the USA. Right along with machinery, the last thing on the list...
Re: The luxury of asking that question.. (Score:2)
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Re: The luxury of asking that question.. (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:The luxury of asking that question.. (Score:4, Informative)
Well, the cars sold in the US are typically made from parts coming from several countries, with components assembled in several countries, and generally only final assembly counting as to which country it is made in. Some Japanese cars are mostly made in the US or even have final assembly in the US.
My experience at companies that make products is that very often overseas contract manufacturers are used when there are lots of them to be made, but local US manufacturers are used to make small lots of products such as for early testing or limited runs. And then there's often some sort of local in-house manufacturing step, such as final assembly, installation of software, customization, etc. The US manufacturers are convenient because they're close and you can easily visit them when there's a problem or you need a quick turnaround, but the cost is significantly higher.
Often the difference isn't necessarily about labor costs. Most of these manufacturers are automated and most of the labor comes from setting things up. The traditional assembly line that wants an unskilled worker is relatively rare.
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All the furniture I bought has been made in America, same with my cookware. The cars are made in America, except one came from Japan. My bike was made here. The lumber, including the engineered wood, for the house remodel was made here. The screw and nails were made here as well, because I bought them. The drywall was made here too. The solar panels I put in for the pool were made here but some materials were sourced from China. The appliances were unfortunately made in Germany and South Korea. My lawnmower and weed wacker was made here though as was the air conditioner and heater, and tankless.
They were "assembled" here- but quite likely much of what you list had most of their components made overseas and then just screwed together in the US just so it can say made in America.
This is doubly true for cars. If your car is an American brand such as GM, doesn't mean it is made in America. I'm not sure if this statistic is still true- but a decade or so ago, a friend of mine in the car industry told me a really interesting fact. He asked: What Company imports the most cars to the US? The answer w
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What does the size of one's hands have to do with the number of fingers?
I don't know, but might explain why Donald Trump only has three fingers on each hand.
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Remember when America made things? Yeah, neither do I, but my parents keep talking about it.
You must be in that larger portion of Americans who were not living when men walked the surface of the moon.
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On the other hand I bought an IKEA (of sweden) kitchen, and the appliances were "Made in Italy" like most of the furniture with a bit of surprise, expecting to get them from asian countries. I think for the wooden parts is a logistic problem because normally kitchens ar
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Manufacturing as a percentage of GDP has remained the same for the last 50 years. We shifted from labor intensive to capital intensive manufacturing. Automation has lowered the number of jobs in this sector. America is still a manufacturing powerhouse.
This. Further, we've never had fewer manufacturing jobs decade over decade, though it's fallen as a percentage of jobs as the country has grown.
It's mostly consumer goods that are made overseas, because US consumers mostly want cheap instead of good (though the story is reversed for cars). But there are many industries beyond consumer goods.
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Peasant.
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Of course, as with any other stance, it's ultimately down to a question of just how much one cares to, or can afford to, or can stand to, or is practical, take it.
Vegan? There's precious little made that doesn't involve bits of some dead animal at some point in its manufacture, even if we exclude oil.
Gun control? It's generally accepted that it's a practical necessity for there to be at least some level of civilian firearm ownership, opinion just differs on where to draw what lines.
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From a hobbyist point of view, a while back I decided to actually tabulate the country-of-origin listed on Digi-Key for all the components I was using in a project of mine. While China was definitely at the top of the list, the complete list was actually a lot more distributed than I had expected.
From that exercise, here's the list:
(this is counting unique part numbers, not the actual number of components for each part number)
China (11)
Israel (7)
Taiwan (5)
Japan (4)
Malaysia (2)
United States (2)
United Kingdom
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To drive around with evil magicians symbols.
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