'My Airbnb Guests Threw a New Year's Party For 300 People' (theguardian.com) 374
"What's the worst that can happen?" thought Nicko Feinberg last December when he listed his house on Airbnb.
The listing explicitly said no parties. Then a request came through to book the house for one night on New Year's Day. It was from a young man, probably in his early 20s. He had one review but it was terrific.... I picked up my boys and we stayed down the road at my mother's apartment... When I got back [the next day] I saw three or four cars in the driveway. I threw my food down and knew I was screwed. Inside there were about 12 young adults, all trying to clean.
The floors looked like someone had poured Jagermeister and champagne everywhere and then danced on them. Everything seemed wrong: my artwork was not on the walls; there was furniture missing; the glass panel on my staircase was shattered; even the floor didn't seem level any more. Then I noticed they were using my best sheets and towels as mops....I told them no one was leaving and I called the police and Airbnb. When a police officer turned up, he said it was a civil matter, before adding: "We were here last night...."
Ultimately, it was just stuff and I knew it would be OK. But I felt a massive disappointment in humanity. That night, it wasn't hard for me and my boys to find Instagram pictures and videos of the party. It was horrifying to see so many people in the house, jumping up and down on the furniture and windowsills. They broke my hot tub and tiles in the bathroom; when I looked in the rubbish bags, I saw all my drinks bottles empty, as well as broken glasses and towels. I found an image online of the invite that said, "Mansion Party" with my address. There had been 300 people there. Boys were charged to enter; girls got in free.
While he won't disclose what Airbnb paid him for the damage, "a year later repairs are continuing. The floor is still uneven." But he told one local news channel that the damage was over $100,000, adding "There's footprints on my bathroom walls."
At one point more than 100 cars had been parked outside, according to a police report, and the 23-year-old was ultimately charged with "disorderly conduct". He also was banned permanently from Airbnb -- which said in a statement that "negative incidents are incredibly rare."
The floors looked like someone had poured Jagermeister and champagne everywhere and then danced on them. Everything seemed wrong: my artwork was not on the walls; there was furniture missing; the glass panel on my staircase was shattered; even the floor didn't seem level any more. Then I noticed they were using my best sheets and towels as mops....I told them no one was leaving and I called the police and Airbnb. When a police officer turned up, he said it was a civil matter, before adding: "We were here last night...."
Ultimately, it was just stuff and I knew it would be OK. But I felt a massive disappointment in humanity. That night, it wasn't hard for me and my boys to find Instagram pictures and videos of the party. It was horrifying to see so many people in the house, jumping up and down on the furniture and windowsills. They broke my hot tub and tiles in the bathroom; when I looked in the rubbish bags, I saw all my drinks bottles empty, as well as broken glasses and towels. I found an image online of the invite that said, "Mansion Party" with my address. There had been 300 people there. Boys were charged to enter; girls got in free.
While he won't disclose what Airbnb paid him for the damage, "a year later repairs are continuing. The floor is still uneven." But he told one local news channel that the damage was over $100,000, adding "There's footprints on my bathroom walls."
At one point more than 100 cars had been parked outside, according to a police report, and the 23-year-old was ultimately charged with "disorderly conduct". He also was banned permanently from Airbnb -- which said in a statement that "negative incidents are incredibly rare."
Good (Score:3, Insightful)
I felt a massive disappointment in humanity.
You played a stupid game with your personal property, and it looks like you won some pretty stupid prizes. Hopefully this was a learning experience.
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want to act like a hotel, be prepared for people to treat you like one.
Which hotel allows you to throw parties with hundreds of people?
Re:Good (Score:5, Informative)
CC makes sense but not that pre-auth (Score:3)
explain why any hotel would accept a reservation without ID and credit card
Pretty much any hotel I've stayed at does that, but then I don't stay at the places that are hourly and bill more for discretion than anything else...
and a pre-auth on the credit card of say 1,000 to 10,000 to cover damages
Sadly such a large pre-auth would lose probably about half of all hotel customers. Yes, even at $1k. Not to mention it's really pad PR as it panics most people to see such a large charge on the CC, they don't ne
Re:CC makes sense but not that pre-auth (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't need to do a pre-auth, just a credit check. Hotels will sue you for damage and will win in court. AirBnB is typically an illegal house rental, not a hotel stay, to begin with and kind of falls under "you should've gotten a bigger security payment".
I used to live near the ocean which is a big tourist place in summer, people would rent out rooms or houses for thousands of dollars per month and security payments for twice or three times as much, they would have shitty couches and furniture and keep it pretty barebones all summer long. Shit got damaged, you'd end up making a profit.
Re: (Score:2)
Which hotel allows you to throw parties with hundreds of people?
Most large hotels have ballrooms and banquet facilities available. They also have security, bartenders, cleaning staff, and maintenance workers. Oh, and they charge you appropriately for use of all of the above.
Re: (Score:2)
Which hotel allows you to throw parties with hundreds of people?
The Four Points Sheraton in Warren, Michigan....
Well, they used to anyway - if you were high school buddies with the desk clerk. I just looked them up and that location is CLOSED. I used to work for a company that put all their out of town visitors there. I arrived one Friday night to find quite the party going on and they were all high school kids. I had to get up about 4 AM Detroit time which sucked even more because I was on west coast time. I called the front desk 3-4 times to complain about the
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want to act like a hotel, be prepared for people to treat you like one.
Which hotel allows you to throw parties with hundreds of people?
Call any larger hotel and tell them you want to book a party. Their conference services people will set you up in a room that handles 300 people easily, complete with DJ and bar.
The thing is to not book a single king bed room and expect the same.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I am honestly shocked that the police didn't charge the AirBnB guest with, at the very least, criminal mischief
I think your confusion is thinking that police do much of anything that isn't a revenue stream for the government that employs them.
Re:Good (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
It seems like allowing everyone to run their own little hotel out of their house without regulation is more of a libertarian move. A socialist move might be something like the government requiring you to rent your spare bedroom and demanding a cut - or maybe quartering troops in your home or taxing your empty bedrooms like they do in some countries.
Re:Good (Score:5, Interesting)
I have an Airbnb, and have hosted hundreds of guests. I never had anything happen like what is described in TFA.
I once rented to a group of people that turned out to be a Harley motorcycle gang. When they checked out, the place was immaculate. All the laundry was done, the towels were folded, the dishes were washed and put away, and they left me a five star review.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Keep trusting strangers with your personal belongings.
Yeah, right. Because I am super worried they are going to steal the dishes I bought at Walmart five years ago.
Do you really think that Airbnbers leave their Ming vase collection sitting on the kitchen counter?
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, right. Because I am super worried they are going to steal the dishes I bought at Walmart five years ago.
Of course you aren't worried about that, but this is where AirBnB gets weird. I suspect your AirBnB rental is something that isn't your primary residence, but part of the promise (or so I thought) was that people could open up their spare bedroom or even their master bedroom when they were away and not using it themselves. It would be a way to make a little money and also provide an affordable room to someone else who might find paying for a hotel room a bit expensive.
If I felt I could trust someone not
Re: (Score:2)
what if they break all the windows? What if they start ripping copper out of the walls?
They don't need to rent the place to do that. They can just smash in the front door with a sledgehammer.
Either way, this almost never happens. Spending your life cowering in the corner because of one-in-a-million risks is idiotic.
Re: (Score:3)
Keep trusting strangers with your personal belongings.
Yeah, right. Because I am super worried they are going to steal the dishes I bought at Walmart five years ago.
Do you really think that Airbnbers leave their Ming vase collection sitting on the kitchen counter?
Is AirBnB still arguing that they are just helping people rent out their private homes for those weekends etc where the hosts are out themselves?
Re: (Score:2)
this man is still repairing the damage to his property months later.
What happened to him is very rare, and he was reimbursed by Airbnb.
Saying that you shouldn't rent rooms because of this is as silly as saying that you shouldn't go outside because you might get hit by lightning.
You think you're completely immune from assholes who don't respect your stuff?
I have 3 rooms that I rent for $100 per night each, with about 70% occupancy. That comes to ~$6000 per month. That is double what I could make with long term rentals. Over the last five years, I have had no more than a handful of broken plates and glasses, and a few towels with wine stains. Maybe
Russian roulette (Score:2)
Instead on one cartridge in a 6-shot revolver, let's offer a single cartridge in a Glock 17 with a 17 round magazine!
Well duh (Score:2, Insightful)
You rent your home full of your stuff to a total stranger. What do you expect?
Re:Well duh (Score:5, Insightful)
You rent your home full of your stuff to a total stranger. What do you expect?
The same as any B&B who rents out a room expects - someone who stays, behaves, pays, and leaves.
People like this should be sentenced to military conscription, with every paycheck going to the victim until all damages are paid off with interest. That should teach them some respect.
Re: Well duh (Score:2)
People like this should be sentenced to military conscription,
Because what could possibly go wrong?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
It would also teach them that slavery is alive and well.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, they want to share. But they're using money as a convenient proxy. Completely and totally not the same as using money as a proxy for bartering.
Re: (Score:2)
You rent your home full of your stuff to a total stranger. What do you expect?
You expect people to be civil and reasonable, not a bunch of animals -- even teenagers.
Of course I'm an old fogie, I worked hard and paid for it, so I'm more likely to take an interest in prolonging its lifetime As Opposed To seeing if the fridge with float in the hottub.
Re: (Score:2)
A quick review of the record shows that you are hopelessly optimistic.
Re: (Score:2)
And someone with a very nice house, why would you even need the extra cash by renting out to air-bnb?
negative reviews (Score:5, Interesting)
"It was a great experience. I enjoyed looking at the interesting patterns the mold made on the bathroom tiles. Five stars."
Another thing: for a while, Agoda would ask you to rate a place, and if you didn't put five stars, would ask, "What was wrong with this place?" As a result, it was easier to just not review, unless you wanted to give them five stars.
Lately I've stopped looking at hotel reviews at all, and just sorting by cleanliness rating. If it doesn't get a top clean rating, it's probably not worth visiting.
Re: This (Score:3)
Re: This (Score:2, Insightful)
Your mistake is thinking humans are rational actors.
stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Stupid person did a stupid thing and what everyone who is not an idiot expected after the first line happened.
Seriously. A 20-something rents a house for one night on New Years Eve. If that didn't raise every red flag within 20 miles, I have no idea what it takes to telegraph you "something just might be a bit wrong here".
I have a hard time believing this story is real. If it were told to me as the plot of a movie I would say it stretches the suspension of disbelief quite a lot.
Re:stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Not all 20 years olds are criminal fuckwits.
And, if your guests disregard parties being explicitly disallowed by rules they signed, and the party gets rowdy, what you expect is a few empty bottles in the garden, cigarette butts in a flowerpot and an used condom in the bedroom. Not a commercial enterprise that organizes the party and charges admission for entry.
Re:stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
Not all 20 year olds are fuckwits. But anybody renting a large place on New Years for one night should raise a red flag. At least enough of one to do a drive by or two, particularly if you're just down the street at your mom's.
Re: (Score:2)
Combine the renter's age, the size of the place, and the day of the year, and holy fuck that's all red flags. It wasn't a guy who just needed a bed to crash in after going out, or a room for a shag if he got lucky. A kid in his early 20s rented a whole fucking house on NYE. FFS, I wouldn't rent a 50 yr old a whole damn house on NYE if I wasn't ok with a giant party there!
And as you noted, he got paid in spades for his criminal negligence for being all of 10 minutes away and not doing at least a couple of dr
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, but the ones who aren't are a lot less likely to want to rent a house for one night on New Year's Eve.
Re: (Score:2)
If it were told to me as the plot of a movie I would say it stretches the suspension of disbelief quite a lot.
A 20-something rents a house for one night on New Years Eve. ... I have no idea what it takes to telegraph you "something just might be a bit wrong here".
No kidding -- just that short description sounds like a risky business.
My kid just got done with a trip (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyway, Not every 20 year old is a party animal. This one was pretty clearly running a professional party for money. Anyone could do that, not just a 20 year old. The real problem is that you put 300 folks in a building meant for 20 tops it warps the floors.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Really? Took me less than 30 seconds on Google. Try harder.
https://www.lohud.com/story/ne... [lohud.com]
https://abc7ny.com/realestate/... [abc7ny.com]
http://www.news12.com/story/37... [news12.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Movie plot that stretches disbelief (Score:2)
Weren't there two movies with this plot?
One was called "Risky Business", and can anyone answer the name of the other one?
Bueller? Bueller?
Re:Movie plot that stretches disbelief (Score:4, Insightful)
The Cat in the Hat?
Trust, but verify (Score:2)
A couple of wifi-enabled cameras in front of the house could be used to mitigate renter abuse.
Reading this earlier, it appears he received an undisclosed sum from Airbnb for damages.
Or neighbor... (Score:2)
I was a little surprised the guy did not have a neighbor that called him up, if I were renting a place out I'd let the houses on either side know and give them my number to let me know if anything seems strange...
As you say, some kind of precautions would have been warranted, especially around NYE.
"stayed down the road" (Score:2)
The summary says the owner "stayed down the road at my mother's apartment". If I were renting out my house on New Year's Eve, and I was just down the road, I would probably drive by once or twice myself.
Re: (Score:2)
The social media post says "Mansion Party" meaning this house is frigging huge and it's closest neighbor is probably far enough to not hear/see any unusual things. Plus in rich neighborhoods, people don't really socialize. They keep to themselves pretty much and they probably call the cops when you try knocking on their doors.
Re: (Score:2)
For varying definitions of "frigging huge". Rich neighborhoods WILL notice if suddenly one of their neighbors turns their house into Grand Central Station and the street starts filling up with cars.
But if the houses are so friggin' huge that the driveways are a mile apart then maybe they won't be too quick to notice. Can you fire a gun off your back porch and not have to worry about hitting your neighbor? If not, maybe your estate isn't big enough to host an impromptu party with hundreds of people.
Re: (Score:2)
The houses on either side are likely FURIOUS that this is happening and just waiting for proofs to report them 16 ways over. AirBNB neighbors don't exactly make the best friends.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Trust, but verify (Score:4, Insightful)
the gig economy is making poor and even middle class people do things they would not normally do. the fact that uber/etc make you use your own car, your own insurance and you are NOT using commercial type, but personal type, which limits what you are supposed to be able to do or claim.
the gig econ puts the cost of business on YOU. the risk on YOU.
this is fucked up. but, well, the top percent that own everything are laughing so hard at us all, just trying to make ends meet.
when do the pitchforks and fires come out, again? we're getting to that point. the gig econ is just a stepping stone to that, no doubt about it.
Re: (Score:2)
I just moved, and the insurance company made sure to ask me whether I'd ever be renting out my new place with AirBnB or the like. Unless he specifically told his insurance company he'd be renting it out, chances are his household insurance is void. He should count himself lucky they didn't burn it down. Or burn down the neighbours'.
Re: (Score:2)
No respect anymore, people think it's funny (Score:2)
It really makes me depressed thinking about the future. It's like Clockwork Orange is being mimicked by the mainstream. How incredibly sad.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: No respect anymore, people think it's funny (Score:2)
Re:No respect anymore, people think it's funny (Score:5, Interesting)
Indeed. The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
And for those who didn't know the reference: The above is ancient quote attributed to Socrates (469-399 B.C.)
The more things change, the more they stay the same...
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Debunked as ancient:
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/ [quoteinvestigator.com]
Re: (Score:2)
That's funny because even before I finished reading your post I was thinking you sounded like that old bum from A Clockwork Orange.
It's a stinking world because there's no law and order anymore! It's a stinking world because it lets the young get on to the old, like you done. Oh, it's no world for an old man any longer. What sort of a world is it at all? Men on the moon, and men spinning around the earth, and there's not no attention paid to earthly law and order no more.
change him like an rent a car place say the (Score:2)
change him like an rent a car place say the full cost of the house (best list price of an smaller one in your area - the sell it now income) + lost of use say $300-$400 a day (to cover meals + a high end hotel)
Re:change him like an rent a car place say the (Score:4, Insightful)
He declares bankruptcy, because few people could ever be able to afford anything even approaching that over their lifetime, and then you lose it all anyway. And you can't seek any further remedy as you already have your "win" in court.
Agree that you should charge the perpetrator and seek further action against them, but he took Airbnb's offer so that's a no-go.
Public liability insurance exists because no one person could ever operate under such a system of fines. But neither the guy who rented, or the one renting out, had that, it seems. Airbnb's insurance no doubt paid out, but only on private terms outside of court.
Re: (Score:2)
It's on Airbnb (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you know how to tell if someone doesn't give a shit about their place or their neighbours? It's on Airbnb.
This happened to a friend... (Score:2)
... though not as bad as in the linked article.
Never rent out for a "model shoot", etc.
It was supposed to be some sort of a photo shoot for some MMA personality.
It turned out to be a big party and porno shoot. There was a rape reported by the neighbors.
They ruined the pool table felt.
At least the Roomba captured about a pound of weed.
Re: (Score:3)
It turned out to be a big party and porno shoot.
Always wondered about that. Back in the 'old days', porn shoots looked like they were done in Motel 6. After the 2008 recession, lots of porn looked like it was being made in high end, well furnished properties*. I guess it was one way for the formerly rich people to make the mortgage.
*Sometimes, I'd be watching a scene and hoping that the actors would get their fat asses out of the way so I could get a better look at the architecture.
Re: (Score:3)
Dead give-away that it's shot in an AirBnB (the kind that is not somebody's actual home) would be the "artwork" from HomeGoods. Stupid, inspirational phrases in the cheapest possible frames.
My friend shops at AmVets for artwork. Cheaper than HomeGoods, and actual art, or at least nicely-framed reprodu
Sigh. (Score:5, Insightful)
"I let random strangers that I didn't know stay in my house unaccompanied and unsupervised and it got trashed".
News at 11.
Honestly, no matter WHAT the rules for Airbnb may or may not be, why on earth would you be stupid enough to do that? If someone "random" asked to borrow your car for one night, would you let them? Would you let them if it was a sportscar? But you'll let them do it with a house worth what? 10 times as much?
20-something pays a minimal fee to use your house for one night over New Year's... bad enough. With a single review? Just what the hell were you thinking?
This is nothing to do with Airbnb per se, it's just bog-standard stupidity. And I bet it's not covered under any of your home insurance policies - for good reason. Airbnb probably aren't even obliged to do anything either... they just choose to do so to as a goodwill gesture to limit the bad press.
Honestly, some people are so stupid it defies belief.
The whole idea of Airbnb is a stupid concept in the first place, though I'm sure profitable when it does work. When it goes wrong, seriously, what did you expect?
If nothing else, a ten second Google will show you things like people Airbnb'ing and turning places into brothels and drug-dens, by comparison a party is the low-end of the scale. Not to mention that they have access to your address for the period of time they are Airbnb'ing... they could be doing all sorts with that kind of access - I could destroy your credit rating in a week in my country by getting access to things addressed to me at your mail address.
I wouldn't even trust a 20-something who might be my own son to have a place "just for New Year's" without making sure they couldn't have a party without my knowledge. Let alone a random stranger.
You learned a lesson that most people never have to learn because they're just not that thick.
Either rent out your place, with a full rental agreement, deposit, month's-rent-in-advance, insurance and all the legal trimmings that come with that, or don't. Short-term rental based on an app EULA is the most ridiculous thing ever and you only need one bad incident to wipe out an entire lifetime's profit doing it.
Re: (Score:3)
Airbnb probably aren't even obliged to do anything either... they just choose to do so to as a goodwill gesture to limit the bad press.
"Airbnb Host Guarantee program". Most of these apps have secondary insurance.
Re: (Score:3)
"What is the Airbnb Host Guarantee?" (text theirs, highlights mine)
The Airbnb Host Guarantee provides protection for ***up to*** $1,000,000 to a host for damages to covered property in the rare event of guest damages ***above the security deposit or if no security deposit is in place***.
The Host Guarantee Programme **doesn't cover cash and securities, collectibles, rare artwork, jewellery, pets or personal liability***. We recommend that hosts secure or remove valuables when renting their place. The progra
Re: Sigh. (Score:2)
And that one, terrific review was ... (Score:2)
It was from a young man, probably in his early 20s. He had one review but it was terrific....
Re: (Score:2)
One "terrific" review - I don't do AirBNB, but I do know to avoid Amazon products with one five-star review.
300? (Score:2)
Don't know that many houses that can hold 300 people or was this a mansion?
Re: (Score:2)
I found an image online of the invite that said, "Mansion Party" with my address.
Shocking! (Score:2)
OK, that's not quite the word I was searching for..., ph, right, PREDICTABLE.
Of course this is what they did, they got it because they could trash it an walk away. Don't want you stuff to get broken? Then don't rent it to strangers.
New holiday rental policy (Score:5, Funny)
For nights like New Year's Eve, the deposit will be like in the "rent a helicopter" scene in the film "Clear and Present Danger":
Jack Ryan: I’m here to rent the Huey.
Helicopter owner: We don’t rent it anymore, but it is for sale.
Jack Ryan: How much?
Helicopter owner: Two million dollars.
Jack Ryan: Uh, my pilot and I will have to take it for a test drive.
Helicopter owner: Of course, you just have to leave a deposit.
Jack Ryan: How much is that?
Helicopter owner: Two million dollars.
Well (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
Please Read and Comply (Score:2)
The listing explicitly said no parties.
Here's my wallet. No running off with it, now. *dust cloud heads off toward sunset*
He'll be back aaaaany minute now...
Had it coming (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
That's my biggest gripe with this. They did the AirBNB thing. Shit happened, but they knew the risks. Their neighbors however didn't ask for this, and if the area was zoned purely residential, a house used commercially shouldn't have happened. They had to deal with 300 random people parking outside and enough shit that the cops were called. All because someone got greedy and can't follow the rules.
(If that kind of shit is allowed in their municipality, then the administration of the city needs to go to hell
so... (Score:2)
"What's the worst that can happen?" (Score:2)
A: Not thinking through the question of what's the worst that can happen.
Thats what you get (Score:2)
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
Disappointing comment Michael, but far worse is being given a "score 3" on this site.
I moved to Melbourne more than 50 years and there's been a great tradition of vilifying each new wave of immigrants
However, it usually reflects more on the family of those doing the denigrating - in my experience at least.
(I was born from English dad & "Aussie" mum whose family was hugely racist against Australian aboriginals - I never worked out why.)
Re: Yeah (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
For a country founded as a penal colony, they sure managed to import a lot of English classism with them.
I think people are becoming less racist in general, but the holdouts seem to be so bitter and vile about it.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
"immigrants" aren't a homogenous group and aren't perceived as such.
For example traditional Asian immigrants in Europe are generally well liked and there's no "oh they're all like that" generalization. That's exactly why British journalists try to rebrand criminals from the middle east as "Asian".
Re:Yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
I've got an apartment in Flemington (Melbourne) as well as one in Elizabeth Bay (Sydney), so when I'm in Melbourne, I'm in African immigrant central. There's almost no trouble here. In fact, most of the trouble involving Africans is vandalism targeting businesses owned by Africans in the main street. A few years back, they had to sack most of the local cops because they were targeting African kids for no reason. The trouble is, when you have to cops unfairly targeting a group, they'll think, "Well, I get treated like a criminal even when I'm clean - I may as well just be a criminal."
If you haven't noticed that every group of immigrants in Australia is racist to the next group, you've had your eyes shut. The western Europeans/Brits hated the Greek and Italian "wogs", then the "wogs" hated the Chinese/Vietnamese, and the Chinese/Vietnamese feel entitled to hate the Indians and Africans.
Now there have been issues with groups, but you get that with kids that grew up in a war zone - they're going to have trouble adjusting to a "normal" society. Do you remember the 4T gang in western Sydney? They'd shoot people for looking at their girlfriends wrong. They imploded when their charismatic leader was killed. But what would've happened if instead of targeting the problematic behaviour, we'd alienated the entire Vietnamese community? We'd have a permanent underclass at odds with the rest of society. What about the MERCS (middle-eastern raping cunts)? Do you remember the outrage over that? When the other Lebanese people found out who was responsible for this, they started sending death threats to their parents, like, "Your fucking kids are giving the entire Lebanese community a bad name! We're gonna kill you!" But it was the same thing - kids from a war zone not knowing any different.
Wait a decade or so, and Sudanese will be the same - the Sudanese community will be an integral part of Australia's multicultural society, everyone will look back on the initial issues through the lens of hindsight, and they'll join in with everyone else in hating on whoever the latest round of refugees or economic migrants are.
Re: (Score:3)
Wait a decade or so, and Sudanese will be the same - the Sudanese community will be an integral part of Australia's multicultural society,
Wishful thinking at best. How are the Aboriginals doing? Living in Melbourne, you probably don't meet any, but come to WA or Queensland.
These social divides can last centuries with no solution in sight. Yes there are big differences in the two groups, but also similarities. And overseas experience with sub-Saharans has not been good. Look at London or the US. Or visit sub-Saharan Africa - it is nothing like Eurasia.
I fear there is no factual basis for your optimism, but I do hope it proves correct.
Re: (Score:3)
They're already integrating. When the Sudanese arrived, they started opening gender-segregated coffee shops etc. - you'd have these places where just Sudanese men hung out, no women or other nationalities. Now most of them have closed, and when you walk past the ones that haven't, you see women and white Aussies sitting down there as well. There are three Somali restaurants on up the street, and there are Vietnamese people working alongside the Somalis in the kitchens. I bet there are gonna be a hell of
Re: (Score:2)
Australians need to go back to England??
Re:POC (proof of concept) (Score:4, Insightful)
Though I agree in principle, there are a reason for (most) such rules.
Your park one - the alternative is that even when you provide tons of homeless shelters at great expense, people still seek places away from authority. Fuck using a bathroom in a park late at night on my own when it's being used by homeless and those thrown out of the shelters.
Most countries have "the pedestrian has right-of-way" because pedestrians can't avoid a 60mph car, but a 60mph car can avoid a pedestrian. Daylight savings - agree, it's a nonsense. New Year's - no idea if that's the rule but if so it seems likely there's a reason for that. Catering bathrooms for 1,000,000 people on a one-off event is a big deal. Try it. Honestly. It's hard even for 1000 people, especially if there's an "event" where they all want the bathroom at the same time - seriously, marshal even a small-town event and see what happens. Just handling 1,000,000 people ANYWHERE doing ANYTHING is a nightmare. That's why there are rules about how and when that number of people can meet and organise such events.
It's nothing to do with people wanting to make up stupid rules. It's to do with people all wanting to do something "quite simple" for themselves, that actually has a huge number of serious knock-on consequences that they never have to consider, and they care only about the self.
Re: (Score:3)
because pedestrians can't avoid a 60mph car, but a 60mph car can avoid a pedestrian
You've got that backwards. A pedestrian can stop in one step, about 2 feet. A 60 MPH car stops in about 120 feet. If that doesn't make sense, compare the stopping distance of a car and a train. Probably a similar disparity. Who gets the right of way?
Re: (Score:2)
Roads are for cars only, to drive at or near the speed limit,
We get it. You don't like to live by rules. Neither do I. Particularly the one against running over drunks wandering in the middle of the street. But hey, we all have to compromise to sustain social order.
Re: (Score:2)
Drunk skulls make dents as well as sober skulls. The rules are there to protect everybody.