Tesla Faces FBI Probe Over Model 3 Production Numbers (cnbc.com) 143
A new report from The Wall Street Journal says the FBI is reviewing Tesla's Model 3 production numbers as part of an ongoing criminal probe into whether the company misled investors. "Federal agents are reviewing Tesla's stated Model 3 numbers dating back to early 2017, the Journal reports, citing unnamed sources," CNBC reports. From the report: Tesla had previously said it provided documents to the Department of Justice regarding CEO Elon Musk's controversial take-private tweet -- a blunder that ultimately cost Tesla and Musk a combined $40 million in fraud settlement fees. Now Tesla says it also provided information to the Department of Justice regarding Musk's public statements regarding production numbers of its Model 3 sedan. Tesla says the company has not received "a subpoena, a request for testimony, or any other formal process," but the Journal reported Friday that former Tesla employees have received subpoenas and requests for testimony.
Elon Musk will soon learn... (Score:2, Offtopic)
... the value of political contributions and tolerating Trump's 'Business' panel.
https://www.theguardian.com/te... [theguardian.com]
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So... they pulled out too early?
Giggity.
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So... they pulled out too early?
Giggity.
I tell you what won't be pulling out early: the uncircmsized 14 inch nígger penis JAMMED good and hard right up your nasty rancid POOPER, ravagina you for an hour with blood from intense anal tearing as the ONLY lube. You'll be shitting blood and nígger cum for days!!
I was going to ask for clarification on how this contributes to the discussion, as the above AC response seemed... odd.
But then I researched the term Giggity [wikipedia.org], (I haven't watched television, except Firefly and Agents of Shield, in almost two decades) and now the AC response makes perfect sense.
Upending the defense contract rocket launch industry, the auto industry, and scaring the shit out of the energy industry will likely inspire some rather powerful establishments to ass-rape Elon.
No further clarification
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...
But then I researched the term Giggity [wikipedia.org], (I haven't watched television, except Firefly and Agents of Shield, in almost two decades) and now the AC response makes perfect sense.
...
You might try The Expanse [wikipedia.org]. It's the best TV I've seen in a very very long time.
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Cool, it's on Amazon Prime, thanks!
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And yet there is an orange muppet who was a business man all his life, had never done any politics before and is now the president of the U.S.A.
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so, only failed socialists like Bernie can run for office? Wow that is awesome idea.
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You didn't name any policies they have or how long. You also pick the easiest low hanging fruit to go to say socialism sucks. Also picking a country whose economy is ran on oil but also gets completely fucked by the US in any way it can be. What about universal healthcare in Canada? Or maybe free college like Germany? Oh you can't use those examples because they are first world countries actually doing well. Instead you pick a third world shit hole and go see its socialist and its shit so that means a
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Classic musk faggot whataboutism.
Here, calm down with some nice videos:
Help with anger management, courtesy of the Muppets and Jack Black. [youtube.com]
Technological advances should not be seen as an enemy. [youtube.com]
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Here’s a better video faggot [youtube.com].
That seems to be a video of idiots driving poorly, mostly in Teslas. Last I checked, idiots (before incarceration and/or death) are free to drive whatever they want.
Are you suggesting that Tesla drivers are predominately idiots? If so, I see a lot of idiot driver and crash videos for pretty much every make of car.
So please, clarify...
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Re: Maybe citizens will soon learn... (Score:1, Funny)
I'll let you know when I decide.
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That was genuinely funny, thank you for that :)
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You contradicted yourself there, suggesting the government has no business asserting power over individuals, and then suggesting using the government's power over individuals to settle disputes.
Straw man. Also, you're just wrong. (Score:2, Interesting)
Your parent never said government has no business asserting power over individuals, so your reply is a logical fallacy known as a "straw man".
Next, it's possible for 2 individuals to agree that the contract which binds their behavior will be arbitrated and enforced by the government, making such arbitration and enforcement by the government a perfectly voluntary interaction.
However, as an aside, one can see that the government need not play a special role here either; why should this one particular organiza
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When Romney famously said "Corporations are People", what you leftists heard was "A corporation is a person"
They actually are. This was an important medieval invention. It's definitely not "what leftists hear".
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There is a massive disparity in power and resources between large companies and individuals. It's far too easy for a company to bury individual lawsuits in paperwork until the opposition has exhausted its resources.
There also needs to be a level playing field: there must be boundaries that are the same for every company, or you get the unhealthy situation that the company most willing to damage its surroundings outcompetes its competitors.
There can't be a separation of business and state. Businesses have to
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Lawsuits aren't handled by "governmental" courts. In first-world countries, great care is taken to make the judiciary independent of the government.
Private arbitration is a company's wet dream. They get to stack the deck in their favor and if the arbitration is binding, there's no legal recourse either.
The real world has rejected your notion of 'freedom'. In every civilized country government and judiciary keep individual and corporate greed in check.
The nice thing about government as it's set up today is t
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Lawsuits aren't handled by "governmental" courts. In first-world countries, great care is taken to make the judiciary independent of the government.
You're kidding, right? The courts are most definitely part of the government. In the US, the Constitution clearly states it is one of the three branches of government. Judges are selected and approved by the other two branches.
Did you mean that great care is taken to make the judiciary independent of political influence?
Re: Elon Musk will soon learn... (Score:2)
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FBI can't investigate a rape properly...
Given that there were no allegations of rape against Kavanaugh, I'm not sure what you are referring to.
...but they can investigate Tesla to find out if they're making as many cars as they say they are?
So.... the FBI is never allowed to investigate ANYTHING ever again because you think they didn't handle some other investigation properly? OK.
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Just like in Soviet States.
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Somehow they "made" ~$300MM in profit, but their cash position improved by $730MM? Either they didn't pay ~$430MM in bills (keeping the money in the bank to increase their cash position) or they lied about one of the numbers. If your salary for the month is bumped up $10,000 you don't magically get an extra $25,000 in your bank account.
My guess is they withheld significant payments to vendors near the end of Q3, so their cash position not only looks really good, but they could claim a profit (not having t
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They could have converted some other assets to cash. For instance, stockpiles of parts used to assemble Model 3's.
Early 2017 Model 3 Numbers, 0 (Score:3, Informative)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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In skimming the CNBC article for an answer, it looks like the issue is regarding production goals, rather than production itself. I.e. did they knowingly make unrealistic claims regarding their production goals. So, not exactly fake news, but definitely not a clear picture of what's going on from the snippet in the summary.
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In any company with leading edge tech or new products any production goals are tentative. Intel has issues with production yields with new processes for example and quite often the yield rate is only told a long time after the fact as the information can be used by competitors and determines price signals.
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And knowingly lying about them can get you into serious shit.
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There's a big difference between announcing a reachable goal but not reaching it and actually announcing a goal you KNOW in advance is unreachable.
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Only privately held companies are allowed to reach for the sky! Welcome to Trumplandia.
Revenge Of The Short Sellers (Score:2)
Since when is a profit on stock s a right?
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While bicycling through my neighborhood yesterday I almost crashed into a Tesla that was backing out of a driveway. The lack of engine and exhaust noise did seem like some kind of fraud....
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Re:This is getting ridiculous. Fucking Wall Street (Score:4, Informative)
They'd do ANYTHING to get rid of Musk. Even resorting to getting the FBI in there to "find" something... "anything, dear god, please, anything!".
Next up: "Musk found dead from 39 bullet shot wounds and his head being chopped of by an axe. Death ruled an 'accident'."
"Yep, worst case of suicide we ever saw! Poor soul, he was just too high-strung." -- Combined Aerospace, Automobile, and Energy Industry Interests.
Musk is an existential threat to the established industries in those sectors as well as to those in government who get all those fat corporate contributions from them.
Tesla Model 3/Falcon9FalconHeavy/PowerWall == Tucker Tornado x 3.
Go read about what the government, in collusion with established manufacturers, did to Tucker and Tucker Motors while keeping in mind he only threatened *one* major industrial sector's established players and that the government is at least as corrupt today as then, if not more so.
Strat
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Tesla Model 3 Is #1 Top Selling American Car In USA
https://cleantechnica.com/2018... [cleantechnica.com]
The only three cars that sold more than this American success story were the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, and Honda Civic.
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Yes, Camrys, Accords, and Civics [goodcarbadcar.net] outsell the Model 3 in sales. But that's just cars - what the US buys now is trucks and SUVs, and for that, it's led by Ford who sells one F series pickup every 35 seconds. Consumers in the US have been moving away from cars for a long time, and the fact is that even Toyota and Honda sell more SUVs and trucks in the US than cars. Of the top 12 vehicles sold (of which Tesla does not break the ranks of), three are for cars - the other 9 (including the top 6) are trucks and
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As far as success story, Q3 Tesla claims to have made ~$330MM in profit (even though their cash flow position increased by $700MM - were bills not paid?). Ford did about $1B in profit for Q3, and GM is expected to do around $1.8B in profit, for the quarter - without any curious increase in cash position that doesn't correlate with earned profit (how do you make $330MM in profit but your cash position increased by over double that amount, unless you're not paying out everything you're supposed to?)
Capital expenditures. Auto manufacturing is an extremely capital-intensive heavy industry. Tesla is still growing rapidly, making huge capital investments and paying for previous capital expenditures.
Go back and look at nearly any capital-intensive heavy industry at the same point in time from their beginning. They were nearly all deeply in debt and were not yet showing a profit despite most not having the level of competition and heavy-handed regulation Tesla faces from mature businesses and government.
Qui
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I'll make it even simpler.
Without being able to see Tesla's ledgers, any speculation...good or bad...is just that; speculation.
Strat
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Whatabout if we move the goalposts over HERE!
( Two fallacies in one post! Good Job.)
Your beliefs are blinding you to reality. Tesla is doing pretty well. Deal with it.
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There is so much money at stake its surprising that they havent just gone ahead and murdered musk.
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There is so much money at stake its surprising that they havent just gone ahead and murdered musk.
Musk's cult of personality is keeping him alive. Kind of like Snowden, or Assange. Staying in the news keeps him relevant.
Why the FBI? (Score:1)
This sounds more like it would be the jurisdiction of the SEC, unless they found potential criminal activity beyond just allegedly misleading investors.
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This sounds more like it would be the jurisdiction of the SEC, unless they found potential criminal activity beyond just allegedly misleading investors.
It pays to have friends in low places.
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Market Manipulation (Score:5, Interesting)
Has there ever been a company which has had to endure as much media sponsored market manipulation as Tesla?
Two days ago the news headline [yahoo.com] was:
"Tesla reports surprise profit, stock surges. Tesla reported its third-ever profit in its eight years as a public company. This exceeded average analyst expectations of losses of 15 cents per share on revenue of $6.32 billion."
Today more speculative drama chipping away at its integrity and success.
Did that "stock surge" burn someone? Did someone think "oh dear, I was wrong, I should have gotten in earlier" or are the shorties still dreaming they can topple it?
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This is par for the course when a stock is heavily shorted. All good news must be followed by damning news, so that the stock price follows a rollercoaster pattern. I've seen it happen to other companies before, almost as if the shorters are actively trying (via the power of the press) to induce failure in the company (regardless of how the actual business is doing at any given moment).
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That's what happens when your CEO posts lots of internal information on Twitter. Musk is the one making public promises about production targets, forthcoming features and the like. Most companies keep quiet about such things until they are ready to put out a press release after the numbers have been met or the product is on sale.
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That's what happens when your CEO posts lots of internal information on Twitter. Musk is the one making public promises about production targets, forthcoming features and the like.
His companies have been the most consistently delivering companies in the "pioneering technology" area that I've ever seen. As you say, "he makes promises about production targets", is there any doubt those are not his targets? In fact he is widely known for setting too high targets, which is why he usually hits them later than he expects. It is not actually illegal to be an optimist as far as I know.
So it seems that this is just the usual FUD he gets hit with, with huge interests against him, as they are l
Just appreciate the tech. (Score:1)
Wonder what they are investigating (Score:3)
It does not release monthly figures, it does not give country wide break up...
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Re:Wonder what they are investigating (Score:5, Informative)
It is illegal if they made X cars but reported X+Y cars.
It would be illegal to give an inflated forecast about production rate knowingly. It would be very hard to prove Tesla knew it is going to miss production deadlines and still misrepresented the issue. With all that talk about production hell, and sleeping in the factory etc, they made no effort to conceal the problems they had in production.
Conveniently released (Score:5, Informative)
The story is old news and Tesla made a statement they haven't received any subpoenas from the DOJ.
The story was conveniently (for some) released as the stock was hitting +8% in a bear market, and it promptly dropped to around 0% for the day.
After about 20 minutes the market realized the story was bullshit and the stock continued to rise 5% by closing time, but the doubt has been sowed and momentum slowed.
Wait...so let me just be clear... (Score:1)
Elon Musk stated that they had a goal and expectation of production numbers and profitability, however, many investors did not believe it to be possible. They pulled out....
Elon Musk and Tesla achieved, and even exceeded their stated goals. So the investors who pulled out, basically are crying cause they lost thousands by pulling out too soon. And so now Elon and Tesla are being investigated for providing accurate estimates regarding future metrics.
It almost sounds like the real issue, wasn't that Elon s
Re:Don't investigate Trump's middle east holdings (Score:4, Interesting)
Musk didn't cut any corners. He simply used "border-radius: 8px".
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Re:Big oil strikes again (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Big oil strikes again (Score:1)
These days it's less of a gamble if you are shorting - just write a bunch of FUD as an article and post it to a crowdsourced "news" site like SeekingAlpha, and all of a sudden you are at the top of everyone's Google searches on that company! Your piece of shit "thesis" based on old information and wild ass guesses gets read by tens of thousands of people, but it's ok because 8 pages later after a login that nobody is going to register for is where it discloses that you are shorting, and really intend to ma