Apple's Tim Cook Makes Blistering Attack on the 'Data Industrial Complex' (techcrunch.com) 185
Apple's CEO Tim Cook has joined the chorus of voices warning that data itself is being weaponized against people and societies -- arguing that the trade in digital data has exploded into a "data industrial complex." From a report: Cook did not namecheck the adtech elephants in the room: Google, Facebook and other background data brokers that profit from privacy-hostile business models. But his target was clear. "Our own information -- from the everyday to the deeply personal -- is being weaponized against us with military efficiency," warned Cook. "These scraps of data, each one harmless enough on its own, are carefully assembled, synthesized, traded and sold. Taken to the extreme this process creates an enduring digital profile and lets companies know you better than you may know yourself. Your profile is a bunch of algorithms that serve up increasingly extreme content, pounding our harmless preferences into harm. We shouldn't sugarcoat the consequences. This is surveillance," he added. In a series of tweets, Cook added: It was an honor to be invited to ICDPPC 2018 in Brussels this morning. I'd like to share a bit of what I said to this gathering of privacy regulators from around the world. It all boils down to a fundamental question: What kind of world do we want to live in? GDPR has shown us all that good policy and political will can come together to protect the rights of everyone. We believe that privacy is a fundamental human right. No matter what country you live in, that right should be protected in keeping with four essential principles.
First, companies should challenge themselves to de-identify customer data or not collect that data in the first place. Second, users should always know what data is being collected from them and what it's being collected for. This is the only way to empower users to decide what collection is legitimate and what isn't. Anything less is a sham. Third, companies should recognize that data belongs to users and we should make it easy for people to get a copy of their personal data, as well as correct and delete it. And fourth, everyone has a right to the security of their data. Security is at the heart of all data privacy and privacy rights. Technology is capable of doing great things. But it doesn't want to do great things. It doesn't want anything. That part takes all of us. We are optimistic about technology's awesome potential for good -- but we know that it won't happen on its own.
First, companies should challenge themselves to de-identify customer data or not collect that data in the first place. Second, users should always know what data is being collected from them and what it's being collected for. This is the only way to empower users to decide what collection is legitimate and what isn't. Anything less is a sham. Third, companies should recognize that data belongs to users and we should make it easy for people to get a copy of their personal data, as well as correct and delete it. And fourth, everyone has a right to the security of their data. Security is at the heart of all data privacy and privacy rights. Technology is capable of doing great things. But it doesn't want to do great things. It doesn't want anything. That part takes all of us. We are optimistic about technology's awesome potential for good -- but we know that it won't happen on its own.
Channeling his inner Eisenhower (Score:1)
I like this attitude, at this rate my next phone my be an iPhone. At least they do more than lip service for this sort of thing.
There's no connection to advertisers (Score:2)
They're leasing you to the advertisers instead.
What exactly does that mean? It sounds great but what are you thinking is happening - if there's no transfer of data from Apple to advertisers, then how can you claim anything like "leasing" is occurring, which is just another form of buying... leasing is just another form of buying.
Remember, Apple's walled garden isn't to protect you, it's to cage you.
What are the reasons divers use shark cages I wonder.
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What a truly precious little snowflake you are....
What? To Who? (Score:2)
Which is another form of selling your information.
Which Apple does not have since they do not collect it.
Your information is being provided to another party.
To who, and what exactly do you think Apple is selling since they do not collect information from me?
What a truly precious little snowflake you are....
What an ignorant child you are...
So you are still wrong then (Score:4, Informative)
They're selling ads from their servers on behalf of advertisers.
Ok... but since Apple doesn't sell ads, just WTF are you talking about?
Hence "leasing", for a lack of a better term.
Hence "wrong" because you are wrong about Apple leasing data to third parties. They don't even have data to lease!
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I would rather be Googles product then have apple hold my hardware hostage every time it needs to be repaired.
Re: Wow (Score:2)
I almost got there, was seeking a flip phone with tethering for a carry around tablet, but got sold on iPhone X. Maps is one of the hardest thing to let go of. But still, recommend it. Iâ(TM)m in a situation where I want to write down some business ideas and thereâ(TM)s nothing to use, nothing can be trusted. Whatâ(TM)s the use?
So, "Big Brother" is complaining... (Score:4, Informative)
Apple loves to control what its users do with its products, but the moment there is something like data that it can't control, they complain? I know that people love to hate various companies, from Microsoft to Facebook to Google, but NONE of them are as bad as Apple when it comes to trying to control the users.
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Apple loves to control what its users do with its products, but the moment there is something like data that it can't control, they complain? I know that people love to hate various companies, from Microsoft to Facebook to Google, but NONE of them are as bad as Apple when it comes to trying to control the users.
iOS could collect a whole lot more data about users--like Android does--but Apple chooses not to collect the data. Google/Android collects data on you even when you tell it not to:
* https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locations-even-when-location-services-are-disabled/
Amazing (Score:5, Interesting)
10 Troll posts . . . that have no clue.
1) At very least, Apple is beating the drum, everyone else is saying don't worry
2) Apple has gone on record FOR protecting users, putting themselves in a spot where, if it's ever found out that they're lying, NO one will trust them
3) The comment about China? Let's see some sources that say what's provided to the government, and whether it's the carriers or Apple; don't forget, the biggest provider is owned by the government . . .
Get out of your basements, get some sun, it's 2018
He says all the right words (Score:3)
It is surveillance, plan and simple, just as he says.
Tim Cook, however, represents the same type of corporation as the ones he critizies. I suspect that he maybe would like to know everything about Apples' customers, too. And the potential Apple customers. And control their behaviour to purchase more Apple products and services. It is hard to distinguish any ernest concern for a surveillance society, from being upset for not having competitive technology in this field.
Data collection has come to be the new level of expectation for businesses. I saw Dragon's Den the other day, where some app developers, however brilliant in marketing and technology, were flamed for not collecting and monetizing on the user data.
It is ironic how the society that led the world in the fight against oppression and for freedom, now leads the world into a world of digital slavery...
Hypocrisy (Score:1)
"[Noun] Industrial Complex" misuse (Score:5, Informative)
I'm getting tired of people saying "[Noun] Industrial Complex" without apparently understanding the meaning of the original Military-Industrial Complex. That original phrase meant that the Military and Industry were in a Complicated relationship with each other. It's not talking about an "Industrial Complex" (whatever that is) run by or about the Military.
"Data Industrial Complex" implies that there's something separate from Industry called Data, and that Data and Industry are in a Complicated relationship with each other. That does not seem to be the the way it's used, though.
You have autism (Score:1)
Is this the power of the autism industrial complex?
Re:"[Noun] Industrial Complex" misuse (Score:4, Funny)
Data gate then?
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That is a good way of putting it, thanks! Because the data is coming from industrial activity, so "data industrial complex" just sounds like it's a "complex" of the data industry, but it can't be a complex without something else complicated with it. If "Intelligence" (CIA/FBI/etc like you say) is the something else, then it makes sense.
Action, not words (Score:5, Insightful)
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Apple could help enhance privacy for everybody : just make an iMessage client for Android and Windows.
So Google and Microsoft can datamine iMessages from/to iPhone users? Great idea... for Google and M$.
No. I liked that iMessage is limited to Apple devices, knowing that Google cannot get their fingers on them.
Data belongs to the users... (Score:5, Insightful)
Third, companies should recognize that data belongs to users
This is the fundamental issue, and we went the wrong way back in the 1980's when companies starting building computer databases. Your electric bill and phone bill should be your data. Your bank account transactions should be your data. But we went the wrong way and decided that your bank account information really belongs to your bank, and they just license you to access it. Wrong wrong wrong, and it's going to be a really difficult slope to go back and fix that.
Really Tim? (Score:2)
It's so cool he says that given that Apple boasts the biggest margins in the industry only rivaled by the sellers of drugs and weapons.
And also, what's their fee on purchases in App Store? Something close to 30%? I would love to have a business like that.
I'm not downplaying his concerns about data mining but you cannot expect Facebook (LinkedIn/Twitter/Google/etc.) to offer their services completely for free - they want something in return and it's your data which you part with. Meanwhile you are free n
Re:Really Tim? (Score:5, Informative)
I was selling applications in online stores for Symbian and Windows before the Apple App Store existed, they all wanted 50%. Brick and mortar stores wanted even more. I think there were one online store asking for less than 50%, they were small and trying to make it big.
The Apple App store set a new industry low for their "take" should be, everybody followed suit.
Disingenuous (Score:3, Interesting)
Google, Facebook and other background data brokers that profit from privacy-hostile business models
It's worth noting that Apple sells thick-client product that are deeply threatened by thin-client cloud-based solutions like the products Google is selling. When you can buy a Chromebook for $250 that lasts for a decade, convincing people to drop $2000 on a Macbook becomes a much harder sell.
If you're Cook, your primary way to attack this market erosion is to seed doubt about data in the cloud.
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Apple sells thick-client product that are deeply threatened by thin-client cloud-based solutions
Right, because they don't sell any thin-client products that use cloud services:
https://www.apple.com/ipad/ [apple.com]
https://www.apple.com/iphone/ [apple.com]
https://icloud.com/ [icloud.com]
https://www.apple.com/ipod-tou... [apple.com]
And those thick-client products that you refer to? They account for less than 10% of Apple's revenue.
https://www.statista.com/chart... [statista.com]
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With the exception of 'iCloud' you just rattled off a list of thick-client products. All of them store data locally and most anyone who had an ipad or ipod has it stuffed with local content - Photos, video files, documents, whatever.
A mid-range iPad has 128 Gb of storage. Hardly a "thin client."
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And you specifically listed a Chromebook, which goes from 16 GB to 128 GB (just like Apple's). Hardly what I'd call a "thin client".
Tim Cook has a point,but (Score:1)
I am not always convinced Apple is sincere about any issue they bring up. Other then its a potential marketing angle they think is attractive. Notice that just as the privacy concerns are heightened in users minds. Apple just happens to come along and say they feel your concern. Yes, I do think there is a shred of sincerity from Tim Cook about privacy. But I also know how Apple probably thinks it can make some money from selling privacy now.
namecheck (Score:5, Funny)
Name Check: to mention approvingly by name [merriam-webster.com]
I have to say that namecheck, press-ganged into a verb, with the mainsail of semantic drift inflated to a D cup, made me throw up a little bit in my mouth.
Perhaps "blamecheck" could step into the breech, initially sounding twice as hipster refurb, though about 10% as asinine.
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I have to say that namecheck, press-ganged into a verb, with the mainsail of semantic drift inflated to a D cup, made me throw up a little bit in my mouth.
The guy who wrote that sentence is criticizing people's use of language?
The next rant (Score:2)
Nothing changes (Score:2)
I'm sure we'll take his words to heart and make some smart decisions like we did with the MIC.
And just think of the possibilities of a combo.
Peter- "Oh, wonderful, we have to get these two together."
Egon - "I think that would be extraordinarily dangerous."
Only a matter of time.
GNAA??!? (Score:1)
Where is the GNAA when you need them???
The Timing... (Score:1)
Apple, Microsoft and monetization (Score:1)
Some people... (Score:2)
Society is improved when we applaud good things and reject bad things.
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Cynicism and suspicion about multinational corporations rarely disappoints.
Cook gave a good speech; that's all. It isn't sufficient to lead to conclusions. I completely agree with him, however.
Cook should just shut up and ... (Score:2)
PRISM was what then? (Score:2)
Priorities (Score:2)
If you did a survey which Apple strategy would be the most important to consumers?
1 - Maintaining Privacy and continuing to strengthen it
2 - Restoring the headphone jack
"Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil." - Niccolo Machiavelli
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No, Tim Cook just wants everyone to be locked into an Apple controlled environment, and other big businesses being out there stops him from being the one in charge of what they see, don't see, what programs/apps they can use, etc.
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doesn't matter what he wants. his point is still valid. quit trying to distract from the subject.
lots of that going on in this thread. sheesh. et tu, Slashdot?
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No people do not want their data mined. They don't want their data collected period. Point of fact, nobody asked them in the first place.
Moron.
Re: LMAO...Apple is not doing it? (Score:2)
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No, Tim Cook just wants everyone to be locked into an Apple controlled environment, and other big businesses being out there stops him from being the one in charge of what they see, don't see, what programs/apps they can use, etc.
What twisted world view do you come from? Data privacy is data privacy, and he's all for it. Apple has yet to indicate they're doing anything other than exactly what they say with regards to data privacy. Just because you don't like the "walled garden" or have the mistaken belief that a mac doesn't allow you to run anything you want doesn't apply in any way to their stance on privacy.
Re:LMAO...Apple is not doing it? (Score:5, Insightful)
Shorter Tim Cook "You can trust us, but don't trust our competitors."
Not a shocking position for a CEO to take I suppose.
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Shorter Tim Cook "You can trust us, but don't trust our competitors."
This is actually a valid point. Apple makes money selling hardware, and has no inherent need to mine data. Google and Facebook make money from targeted advertising, and data collection and mining is the core activity of their businesses.
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Undercut in what sense?
Undercut by Android, which is nearly free. Google doesn't make money from selling Android. They make money by using it as a data collection platform.
People seem to be buying Apple Stuff at ever-increasing prices in ever-increasing numbers.
Apple's market share peaked in 2012.
Re:LMAO...Apple is not doing it? (Score:4, Insightful)
has no inherent need to mine data
Insomuch as public companies have stock holders, this is incorrect.
Just what do you think they data mine? (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple is the only one taking privacy at all seriously.
Even for determining how to make Maps better, Apple has said they don't sample whole routes, just fragments of routes to see how Maps is performing...
They also do things like keep Face and Touch ID all local on the device, nothing goes to Apple.
So once again, just what do you claim they are mining?
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They are 'mining' real resources using slaves to make cheap electronics which are recycled at ~20% efficiency, they are aggressive against the right to repair movement, aggressive to tie in their software to their upgrade cycle, aggressive to customers who throw hundreds of extra dollars at an average product.
Lovely aluminium chasis. Hint: aluminium for a cheap computer meant to last 3 years is a dumb decision that gives us 2+ degrees global warming.
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Re:Just what do you think they data mine? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, Apple is one of the only tech companies caring about your privacy.
It is also one of the worst offenders to seeing their customers as big bags of money they need to squeeze every single penny out of - as well as trapping them in a walled amusement park filled with amazing wonders.
I'd much rather go with, say, Canonical or Red Hat, or go full communist with Debian...
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One word: "Siri".
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Just ask all the fappening celebs.
Hint: The Fappening was the result of folks breaking into iCloud accounts of targeted celebrities then publishing selected contents of those accounts - not the result of data-mining on Apple's part.
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the result of folks breaking into iCloud accounts of targeted celebrities then publishing selected contents of those accounts - not the result of data-mining on Apple's part.
So what. The data was still ended up where it was not intended. The reason the data was collected isn't much comfort to Jennifer Lawrence.
Maybe Mr. Cook should get up an speak about the evils of cloud computing. Oh wait, that'd hurt his business.
Um, no (Score:2)
They do have an ad platform everyone is forced to use.
Oh you mean this one [apple.com]?
The one that no developer was ever forced to use, and that was shut down - in part because Apple wouldn't give advertisers user data?
They do have an app that suggests what to watch.
You mean TV? That simply displays what is popular to download, based on downloads only and nothing sent to Apple from users?
The only time Apple uses data like that is ratings, where USERS CHOSE TO SEND RATINGS TO APPLE. Apple did not collect the data fro
Where the money is really at - customer service (Score:2)
At the end of they day the data is where the money is
How can you say that when Apple is the living proof that statement is wrong? Or at best partially correct.
Oh there is money in data to be sure. But that is not where even MOST of the money is. Apple has managed to amass more money than any other company with a philosophy of not selling data on customers, period.
Obviously it is possible to make money via a different path than selling data.
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Way to back track ass-hole.
Talk to Facebook and Google sometime. Data is money. Period. What the fuck do you think Amazon does. Why do you think you get spam and targeted ads. Data is collected about you all the fucking time. Every click, every app, every web site, data about your habits are being collected.
Tim Cook knows this. So he's throwing out the narrative that Apple cares about privacy though NEVER explicitly stating Apple will do anything about it.
Y
Re: Where the money is really at - customer servic (Score:2)
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Talk to Facebook and Google sometime. Data is money.
Yes data is money, which is what I said also.
But the point you seem to have missed is that it DOES NOT HAVE TO BE MONEY. That companies can grow quite rich without turning data to money at all, which is what Apple has done.
Tim Cook knows this. So he's throwing out the narrative
This is where you go off the rails. Cook is throwing out nothing, Apple is not selling user data. If you think so you are ignoring all the actual evidence and the reality of how t
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Some tech economists crunched numbers and figured out that if you tried to self-host all of the services Google provides you for free, it would cost about 20K/yr .... Google is pretty much giving you 20k in services ....
Self-hosting cannot be comapred with Google hosting, as it ignores the economies of scale.
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Yeah he's just mad Apple's not a part of it. At the end of they day the data is where the money is and Apple's devices are just windows to data (Well, services. Services are just applied data).
I'm no fan of Apple for a lot of things, but this is just a dumb statement. Apple is literally the most valuable company on the planet as of this posting at over 925 billion dollars. That is 150 billion dollars more than the number 2 company Amazon and 175 billion over Alphabet which is arguably the largest data mining company of them all. I don't think he is mad that they are not getting much of a slice of that pie because if he were then they wouldn't be making these statements constantly and you would
Re:LMAO...Apple is not doing it? (Score:5, Interesting)
While we obviously can't know for sure, there so far hasn't been any evidence that Apple does this. They do collect data with respect to services that they specifically provide that requires them to use such data (eg: Siri, maps, etc) but I've read past reports from people who have wiresharked the traffic coming out of their iDevices and Apple was true to their word. iDevices did not send unnecessary data to Apple.
Nor is there evidence that they buy up data from elsewhere like Facebook or Google does.
They have positioned themselves as data privacy champions. If they were exposed as data miners of the likes of Google or Facebook, don't you think that exposing that hypocrisy would be massive news? I know I haven't seen any such news yet. Please feel free to link such news stories in case I simply missed them.
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They have positioned themselves as data privacy champions.* If they were exposed as data miners of the likes of Google or Facebook, don't you think that exposing that hypocrisy would be massive news? I know I haven't seen any such news yet. Please feel free to link such news stories in case I simply missed them.
*Offer not good in the People's Republic of China.
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While I think it's true (Score:5, Insightful)
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Did they do this in the past when they were on the ropes? No? Then, what?
Just to play devil's advocate a bit here, the last time Apple were on the ropes, mass data collection wasn't really a thing. The internet was only just beginning to get into peoples' homes.
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And this was only enabled by the easy-to-use interface, pioneered by the (once) masters of UI/UX, of the iPhone.
Let's face it... Mac OS influenced Windows. iOS influenced Android. And new owners of iPhones influenced Blackberry/Nokia owners to upgrade --lest you look like you're living in the past.
Just think about it.. the government didn't have to stoop to Orwellian means to track peoples' movements, behaviors and general actions/thoughts by installing cameras in everyone's
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Apple has a different vice: vendor lock in. That is also a user-hostile behavior. So you get to pick your poison in vendors for handset computers: one is aggressive about vendor lock in (iphone) and the other is aggressive about data collection (android). The right way forward is, as it has always been, open standards. The closest solution right now is third-party android.
I shouldn't have to use icloud as my online storage, I should be able to use any number of vendors that I can choose to trust and w
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I shouldn't have to use icloud as my online storage
Is there anything forcing you to? As far as I know you can set up ownCloud and use that instead of iCloud if you want, at least for documents, photos and videos. Granted, I don't think they support contact info and such but still...
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Even if Apple does collect data, that does not mean we should ignore the warnings from Tim Cook. Maybe it's a good idea if the villains stand up and say "we're out to get you!" so that people took their privacy seriously.
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There's nothing to encrypt if data isn't being sent. Even if you can't see the data itself, you can still tell that data is going out, and where it is going to.
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What you can't tell on an encrypted communications channel (without finding a way to bypass the encyrption) is what is being sent. In particular whether the information being sent is the minimum required to complete the action at hand or whether additional data is being exfiltrated.
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Troll harder.
If you can't use Duck Duck Go you probably can't tie your shoelaces. Targeting does the exact opposite of what you describe, it makes things harder to find since it burys more precise results under a mountain of "other users searched for blank instead" suggestions.
Want to look up a restaurant or business in another city on google, or search for an obscure name or term? Have fun having it "correct" your search and bombard you with advertisements for local stuff or shit you don't need. "Did yo
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I can't for the life of me imagine a society being optimized towards allowing a random weirdo search for something obscure. Try living like a normal person and the system will work fine for you.
Re: I actually love being tracked (Score:1)
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I don't mind the use of personalization if *I* control the personalization, not Google et al. I might want sites to know my favorite games but NOT my favorite underwear brand.
And your preferences don't have to be tracked via IP address or cookies. It could be mor
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Surely it was sarcasm. Otherwise I can't believe I read it.
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I think you probably realize that lot of people in their 40s generally expect to move on with their lives and don't spend their whole day coding or otherwise burning up what little neurons they have left with anything complicated or time-consuming.
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My experience with having once lived in a smaller and more conservative town is that word travels fast and everybody "tracks" you, as in, gossips... since when has humanity revolved around privacy instead of rampant gossiping? Surely the people who can achieve some level of privacy have a very enlightened and polite circle of friends in a very large city... my life experience consists of being judged and having stories made up about me. And of course the grocer would also be happy to upsell you some new ite