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Communications The Courts Network United States

New Yorkers Sue Trump and FEMA To Stop Presidential Alert (cnet.com) 511

Not everyone is pleased to hear that President Trump has the power to use communications systems in case of an emergency. According to CNET, three New York residents recently filed a lawsuit against President Trump and William Long, administrator of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, to halt FEMA's new Presidential Alert messaging system.

The lawsuit reads in part: "Plaintiffs are American citizens who do not wish to receive text messages, or messages of any kind, on any topic or subject, from defendant Trump. [Trump's] rise to power was facilitated by weaponized disinformation that he broadcast into the public information sphere via Twitter in addition to traditional mass media." From the report: Presidential Alerts are similar to Amber or other emergency alerts on your phone -- you hear a loud noise comes along with vibration. The messages come from the Integrated Public Alert and Warning System (IPAWS), which attempts to send the alert to every cell phone within the U.S. operating on a network run by a carrier opting into the Wireless Emergency Alert system. IPAWS is used in the event of natural disasters, acts of terrorism or other disasters or threats to public safety. The plaintiffs' main complaint is that Presidential Alerts are compulsory -- there's no way to opt-out of receiving them. They argue that under civil rights law, government cannot use cellular devices to compel listening, "trespass into and hijack" devices without a warrant or individual consent.

The plaintiffs are also concerned Trump might use the alerts to spread disinformation because IPAWS doesn't regulate the content of the messages. That means Trump may be free to define "act of terrorism" and "threat to public safety," and may broadcast "arbitrary, biased, irrational" messages to "hundreds of millions of people," the plaintiffs say in the lawsuit.

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New Yorkers Sue Trump and FEMA To Stop Presidential Alert

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  • by iggymanz ( 596061 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:13PM (#57421604)

    how clueless, President Barack Obama signed the Integrated Public Alert and Warning System Modernization Act of 2015.

    And the messages are from FEMA.

    Beside this fools in major media outlets are embarrassing themselves with their ignorance, spewing about "Trump's messages"

    • by Noishkel ( 3464121 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:20PM (#57421638)
      Yeah, no shit. I recall this being set up during the Obama Administration, and I also remember how badly it failed due to problems integrating it into the larger national alert system.
    • by Octorian ( 14086 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:43PM (#57421764) Homepage

      And when it was signed into law under Obama, I think I remember the Republican-leaning part of the population being equally outraged at it.

      This "we must be outraged *just* because Trump was named in describing the thing" feels just as bad as "we must be outraged *just* because Obama was named in describing the thing" from a few years ago. The only thing that's changed is who is being outraged.

      (Sure, this administration may be saying/doing a lot of things there's a real non-partisan reason to be outraged at, but this isn't one of them.)

      • by postbigbang ( 761081 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @08:43PM (#57422012)

        It's sad that people even give a flying fuck about this message. Oh, test message. Not an Amber Alert, no hurricane or earthquake.

        The EAS has messages at least once a week on your favorite radio station. No one gets outraged. Same principal.

        The electronic trespass rubric seems like a sham to me. If there were a tornado coming through, you'd want to know. A national emergency like some fool N Korean lobbing stuff at the USA, yeah, a real one (not the stupid fake one of recent memory) is important.

        Gonna be earthquake? Sunspots of biblical magnitude (just before most transistors get clobbered) would be nice. I'd break out the candles.

        Of many things to give a crap about, this is not one of them.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          And the same outraged people would be outraged again if some disaster stuck and they weren't notified.

          "Why didn't the government warn us?? WHYYYY!?"

        • >"The electronic trespass rubric seems like a sham to me. If there were a tornado coming through, you'd want to know"

          Indeed. Too bad every one of those tornado alerts I got were hundreds of miles away from me and always at some insane time, and with an EXTREMELY loud and frightening alarm. And so I turned that portion off. Don't even get me started about "amber alerts"...

          And yet we are not "allowed" to turn off "Presidential Alerts"

          The real issue here is one of principle. I don't think the government

          • Although I truly and sincerely desire you to have control over your devices and your privacy, you and I do not.

            Could the alerts be tighter? Sure. I get Amber alerts from 200mi away. I shrug. You should, too.

            You are mightily deceived if you don't understand privacy, LBS tracking, and the sins of the telcos. This is truly chump change compared to the flapping pile of data dirt already stored on you, and I. Living in a crazy world is a grey scale of death by a thousand cuts. This is just one cut. Save the crie

            • >"This is truly chump change compared to the flapping pile of data dirt already stored on you, and I. Living in a crazy world is a grey scale of death by a thousand cuts. This is just one cut. Save the cries for the really deep ones."

              I am very, very aware of how much spying and data collection is going on. Way before people like Snowden started raising eyebrows. Indeed this is just a small cut... but I tend to stand against all the cuts; they all hurt, and they are all additive. But don't think my ire

      • by Obfuscant ( 592200 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @08:57PM (#57422072)

        And when it was signed into law under Obama, I think I remember the Republican-leaning part of the population being equally outraged at it.

        Really? I don't remember any outrage about it at all. It was an extension/upgrade to the existing EAS system and back then people understood that a notification system was a Good Thing. Of course there were people who don't want to get any messages they don't want, like the presidential alert, and are unhappy that there is no way to turn them off. (I am one of those.) It's hardly "outrage" at "Obama" or "Trump" to feel that way. I feel the same way about useless Amber alerts, and even the Everbridge calls that our local Sheriff's office sometimes send out.

        The only thing that's changed is who is being outraged.

        No. There were no lawsuits from morons who wanted to predict all kinds of nonsense about how it would be misused when it was created. This is a lawsuit that is many years too late, because nothing has changed about the system itself. It's only who is now authorized to send the message, and that message is not coming straight from the cellphone of the President, it's coming through FEMA.

        This lawsuit nonsense is a whole 'nother level of derangement. No, Trump is not going to declare a national emergency just so he can trigger a national alert. It just ain't gonna happen.

        • That's right. They are not the same. Few people had Obama Derangement Syndrome compared to tens of millions with TDS. But this madness is not over, it needs to play out further. It's going to be a neurotic society's Primal Scream.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by MisterSquid ( 231834 )

            That's right. They are not the same. Few people had Obama Derangement Syndrome compared to tens of millions with TDS. But this madness is not over, it needs to play out further. It's going to be a neurotic society's Primal Scream.

            Can we stop with the "Trump Derangement Syndrome"?

            It's propaganda intended to dismiss the legitimate opinions about an elected official.

            Trump is by all measures a terrible steward of the economy, the environment, diplomatic relations, the truth, etc. etc. It makes sense people are furious about his executive actions which to date amount to grift, corruption, dishonesty, and cronyism.

            People upset about Trump's executive actions are not necessarily deranged. They're responding as one should to someone who wie

        • by Anonymous Coward

          How can you be sure? He's known for doing or saying whatever just to get what he wants.

        • by Anonymous Coward

          Your memory [thegatewaypundit.com] isn't the only thing that matters, and some of us remember the numerous birther lawsuits, the endless haranging that Obama was going to FEMA camp us into martial law, and all sorts of other nonsense which you were and are conspicuously silent about, but somehow expect the country to be "patriotic" and not badmouth the CURRENT occupant of the White House as he shoots his mouth off.

    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      The idea is older than that. The extension of EAS to cell phones was publicly announced in 2009 (prior to Obama) - http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs... [fcc.gov] but the actual order to FCC was given in 2006.

  • by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) * on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:14PM (#57421608)

    ...because it is idiotic, and could apply to EAS, or EBS before it, delivered via any medium, including radio and TV, or even warning sirens.

    https://nypost.com/2018/10/03/... [nypost.com]

    One of the chief purposes and reasons for being for EAS (and EBS) is for the President to get a message directly to the American people in the event of a major national emergency.

    It's a system that is desperately needed, and was expanded to include Wireless Emergency Alerts (WEA) via the IPAWS legislation signed into law by President Obama.

    And though we hope the system is never used, it does need to be tested.

    https://slate.com/technology/2... [slate.com]

    • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @08:26PM (#57421928) Homepage Journal

      Trump may be a jackass, but this is his job. If he abuses the powers and access of his job, then people have a right to be pissed, but you can't preemptively take the tools of his job away.

    • by guruevi ( 827432 )

      IPAWS modernization was signed into law by Bush (2006), a version of the WEA was announced by FCC in 2009.

    • by e3m4n ( 947977 )

      agreed, this has got to be the worst case of 'i'm going to take my ball and go home' I have ever seen. Forget about WHO ordered the message. This is an emergency alert system. If he didn't run tests, they would accuse him of the same bullshit they accused bush jr of with new orleans. Damned if you do, damned if you dont. Why do they even pretend its about more than being butt hurt?

  • The plaintiffs are also concerned Trump might use the alerts to spread disinformation because IPAWS doesn't regulate the content of the messages. That means Trump may be free to define "act of terrorism" and "threat to public safety," and may broadcast "arbitrary, biased, irrational" messages to "hundreds of millions of people," the plaintiffs say in the lawsuit.

    I think the plaintiffs should have to present some evidence why they believe it is likely the President would abuse this forum to broadcast "arbitrary, biased, irrational" messages.

    To what individual tendency they'd even reference?

    • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:36PM (#57421744)

      I think the plaintiffs should have to present some evidence why they believe it is likely the President would abuse this forum to broadcast "arbitrary, biased, irrational" messages.

      I received the following alert this morning, just before noon PST.

      "Presidential Alert
      THIS IS A TEST of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System. No action is needed.

      Christine Blasey Ford is a skank."

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by rmdingler ( 1955220 )

        I think the plaintiffs should have to present some evidence why they believe it is likely the President would abuse this forum to broadcast "arbitrary, biased, irrational" messages.

        I received the following alert this morning, just before noon PST.

        "Presidential Alert THIS IS A TEST of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System. No action is needed.

        Christine Blasey Ford is a skank."

        Like no steak should ever, not ever, be served; well done, sir.

    • The plaintiffs are also concerned Trump might use the alerts to spread disinformation because IPAWS doesn't regulate the content of the messages.

      Sounds like they're asking for prior restraint, something that the courts frown quite deeply upon.

  • The messages are free, so there are no damages.

  • by dkman ( 863999 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:19PM (#57421632)

    I want to know why alerts don't go into a history like text messages. Personally I think they should just go into the normal SMS history.

    When I clear an alert to make the phone be quiet I lose the ability to see the alert. That's some of the dumbest planning I've seen.

    • by bws111 ( 1216812 )

      They do on my phone (Galaxy). Maybe you just have a cappy phone.

    • It goes into the history on my Windows Phone :D
      Now I'm curious what brand phone you have. Sounds poorly designed.
    • by koick ( 770435 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @08:09PM (#57421860)
      They are buried to be sure, but on my Android Pixel 2 running 9.0 Pie I can find them here:
      Apps & Notifications -> Emergency Alerts -> Emergency alert history
    • by e3m4n ( 947977 )

      i think thats a problem with the device manufacturer. Once the content is delivered to the device, its the device that caches your notifications for review. Aparently they didnt think this type needed to be cached. I agree with you, but I am not sure there is much the feds can do. Not every device that is designed to recieve this actually has the feature you are talking about. Believe it or not but there are still a few 'dumb' phones still in ciculation.

  • We get it... (Score:5, Informative)

    by argStyopa ( 232550 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:19PM (#57421634) Journal

    ...you guys are still butt hurt over the 2016 election.

    But really, you don't want FEMA messages because they "come from Trump"? You know this system was authorized by President Obama, right?

    • Re: We get it... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @08:29PM (#57421948)

      You don't get it. Trump is that badly distrusted.

      But yes, we remember your hysterical anti-Obama actions. Birtherism, Jade Dragon, FEMA in general, and even a letter to Iran from members of the Senate. So sow what you reap.

      The bad thing for you is that Trump has a record of needing adult supervision. His own staff documented it.

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by null etc. ( 524767 )

      ...you guys are still butt hurt over the 2016 election.

      I'm butt hurt over the fact that I live in a country where half of the population is stupid enough to vote for Trump.

    • But really, you don't want FEMA messages...

      Correct, I almost certainly don't want FEMA messages. I'm not sure the use case where it would be helpful, and in an emergency my phone is probably going to be put away. If my phone makes noise during a hurricane, I would expect it to be a friend/family member in trouble.

  • Origin was in 2006 (Score:5, Informative)

    by Woldscum ( 1267136 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:21PM (#57421650)

    The original bill that created this national FEMA alert was passed in 2006. Bush then signed a bill that modified it in 2008. The original test was scheduled to happen during the hurricane Florence. So it was moved to today. Just another opportunity to smear Trump.

    • The original bill that created this national FEMA alert was passed in 2006. Bush then signed a bill that modified it in 2008. The original test was scheduled to happen during the hurricane Florence. So it was moved to today. Just another opportunity to smear Trump.

      Fortuitously, they've been quite few.

    • by e3m4n ( 947977 )

      Fine! I'm gonna take my ball and go home...

  • Anyone? Anyone? The F?
  • Biased media (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:22PM (#57421668)

    > [Trump's] rise to power was facilitated by weaponized disinformation that he broadcast into the public information sphere via Twitter in addition to traditional mass media.

    This is rich considering the objectively lopsided reporting by the media who did their best to elect Hillary. You can't complain about Russian trolls when you have the power of mass media and tech companies behind you.

    Amazingly they still don't understand why Trump won. The fact is, Hillary was an awful candidate, and no propping her up by the powerful elites was going to change that.

  • by gman003 ( 1693318 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:28PM (#57421692)

    Look, I hate Trump probably as much as anyone. But this lawsuit is dumb.

    It's just an emergency alert. The weather service can issue weather alerts, emergency services can issue alerts for wildfires and earthquakes and such. They're an obvious public good - informing the public of imminent dangers to life and limb.

    Could it be abused? In theory, yeah. Not quite sure how you'd do it in practice - it's not like there's a special console in the Oval Office that controls it, any message has to pass through lines of people before it goes out, any one of which would be required to refuse it. I'd be more worried about some FEMA staffer accidentally running something in prod instead of test and spamming the country than the Tangerine Toddler using it as an unblockable twitter.

    More to the point, if you're worried that the President is likely to abuse a top-level emergency warning system to shovel propaganda at an unwilling public... the solution is not "don't let the president do that", it's "don't let that person be president". Such an untrustworthy person should not have been elected in the first place, and such a breach of public trust is cause for immediate removal from office, whether by impeachment or 25A or any other means necessary.

    After all, we trust the president with nukes. If we can't trust someone with an emergency broadcast system, how the hell can we trust them with thermonuclear weapons?

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Look, I hate Trump probably as much as anyone. But this lawsuit is dumb.

      You do not need to qualify it. Just say it:
      This is dumb. The people doing it are dumb or partisan.

      That is it. Adding in the wink and nod means you are trying to impress people who, if they do not agree with you on this stupidly obvious point, are not going to be convinced anyway.

  • Hey wimps (Score:5, Funny)

    by thrillseeker ( 518224 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @07:32PM (#57421710)
    Grow the fuck up. It's the Presidential Alert system, and only for the brief moment is The Trumenfuhrer occupying that seat. Someone else will be President soon enough and we can all luxuriate again in alerts about how many billions of dollars we're shipping in the middle of the night to terrorist supporters.
  • Don't like it? Don't use it. Speak with your wallet.
  • This was no more invasive than the Amber alert for kidnapped children. I've gotten those at 4:30 AM, talk about invasive. I don't remember any lawsuits being filed on them.

    • You can block Amber Alerts. I did immediately after I found out about them. I'm going to be zero use in those scenarios because I don't pay any more attention to children than it takes to avoid tripping over them. As a single middle-aged man, it doesn't pay for me to pay attention to them at any level. And I don't give a shit about a vehicle with a kidnapped kid on the other end of the state anyhow. I'll never be there and they're not going to be headed here. I DO NOT FUCKING CARE. (it's probably the non-cu

    • You can opt out of Amber and other alerts. But not this one. That's a difference.

  • Freaked the shit out of people for a few seconds. Thousands of phones went off at once in a very busy airport, a few people sought cover/shelter.

    Now I expect regular Tweets but not via Twitter...

  • Of course they do ...

    And these are the folks who think they are smarter than us dumb flyover hicks.

  • If things don't go Trump's want he likely will start an uprising against the United States.
  • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @08:32PM (#57421956)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • That humans have run their course, time to give the dinosaurs another chance...

  • Dying in a flash flood to own the GOP means we don't have to deal with your dumb ass anymore.
  • by viperidaenz ( 2515578 ) on Wednesday October 03, 2018 @09:09PM (#57422120)

    This group of people want to avoid "arbitrary, biased, irrational" messages by filing an arbitrary, biased, irrational lawsuit.

You will lose an important disk file.

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