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Microsoft Government Privacy Technology

Microsoft Calls on Congress To Regulate Face Recognition (axios.com) 87

Addressing a growing concern by privacy advocates and users alike over the usage of facial recognition by government bodies, Microsoft urged the US government on Friday to start thinking about what limits should be set on the use of such technologies. From a report: In a blog post, Microsoft also said it is consulting with outside groups to help set its own policies for how it will use and sell such technology. Face recognition can be used for a range of purposes, from reuniting missing kids to mass surveillance. Currently, there are few rules for those using or selling the technology. "The only effective way to manage the use of technology by a government is for the government proactively to manage this use itself," Microsoft president Brad Smith said in a blog post. "And if there are concerns about how a technology will be deployed more broadly across society, the only way to regulate this broad use is for the government to do so." For its own part, Smith said Microsoft is going to move slowly on commercial use of face recognition while it explores what its own policies should be.
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Microsoft Calls on Congress To Regulate Face Recognition

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  • by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ) on Friday July 13, 2018 @12:22PM (#56941898)

    No facial information should be allowed to be stored by a government entity without a warrant. I would have thought that THAT is already covered by the constitution.

    No private entity should be allowed to store facial recognition of an individual without that individual's explicit written consent- and should not be allowed to sell any data collected via means of facial recognition.

    • What do you mean by "store"? If I run your photo through my open source facial recognition software is that storing it?
    • And to think that two days ago we were worried about ICE requesting license plate information from malls in California.

      Hint: Any camera that can do license plate OCR, can *also* do facial recognition OCR.

      Privacy is a losing battle. NO way this won't be abused, and no law is going to stop it.

    • The Constitution was created before the invention of the Photograph Camera.

      I am sure biometrics tracking wasn't considered an issue at the time.

      • The Constitution was created before the invention of the Photograph Camera.

        I am sure biometrics tracking wasn't considered an issue at the time.

        No, but it did address searching. Searching through a facial database should be covered by that.

    • I wouldn't even want to guess at how many mug shots law enforcement has.

    • I'll go out on a limb here and state that this is not the best congress to appeal to for protections of civil liberties. I suppose it's less bad than the Bush 2 era, but still.

      • > it's less bad than the Bush 2 era, but still.

        That's not for lack of trying. 45 is a whole lot more malicious and malignant than the worst hyperbole ever uttered about Bush #2. The difference is that Dubya knew enough to surround himself with competent people like Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rove. 45, OTOH, tolerates the presence of no one who is not a sycophantic yes-man.

    • No facial information should be allowed to be stored by a government entity without a warrant. I would have thought that THAT is already covered by the constitution.

      Which part of the Constitution covers this? Do you consider a photo of someone to be a search, or is it a seizure? Is it abridging the freedom to keep and bear arms? I'm trying to figure out what specific part of that document prohibits this. I am asking. What do you think covers this?

      Keep in mind that schools are clearly "government entities", and every K-12 school I've attended has created a yearbook with each student's photo in it, along with group photos for clubs and sports teams. They are also now cr

      • No facial information should be allowed to be stored by a government entity without a warrant. I would have thought that THAT is already covered by the constitution.

        Which part of the Constitution covers this? Do you consider a photo of someone to be a search?

        Doing a facial scan of someone and storing where they have been and are going is an illegal search. It's just a more efficient way than cops breaking in your house and searching your pockets for ticket stubs, and your shoes for bits of earth.

        • Doing a facial scan of someone and storing where they have been and are going is an illegal search.

          That's not what you said. You said: "No facial information should be allowed to be stored by a government entity without a warrant." A picture of someone's face is "facial information". Where does the Constitution prohibit the storage of a picture of someone's face by a government?

        • Doing a facial scan of someone and storing where they have been and are going is an illegal search.

          I am not a cop. Is there already a law that says I can't take a photograph of the Grand Canyon that has other people in it, where I chatted with them and discovered they're going to check out Monument Valley next? Or are you suggesting we need a new law to prevent me from doing that?

          On thing's for sure: once I have that photo, you will never know what I did with it. Any laws against my further analyzing the p

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      The US has powerful federal privacy protections to stop any federal database of people getting collected at a US gov level.
      The way other federal law enforcement agencies work around set of privacy laws that is:

      Perfect the hardware and software to detect faces using federal criminals faces already in the federal criminal databases.
      Tell every US sate and city that the powerful, expensive and new software exists but it has no real time use.
      Provide federal funding to any state interested in any federal sta
    • Won't require a warrant after Kavanaugh is confirmed.
  • by bluelip ( 123578 ) on Friday July 13, 2018 @12:23PM (#56941906) Homepage Journal

    Microsoft is crying for regulation because they are so far behind.

  • only way people can guard against abuse(and even just use) of facial recognition, is through knowing how it is done(where the cameras are, how the software works, what are details in database used) etc etc).
    government should stick to facilitating opening all those details to everyone. it should not act to regulate that knowledge, as it wants, including to its own uses, without opening it up.

    • Or wear IR diodes from remote controls around your neck. My nephew did that for a science fair project last year. It was amusing until he walked into a bank...
    • Step 1) Buy a camera
      Step 2) Take a photo
      Step 3) Go to https://cmusatyalab.github.io/... [github.io] and install the software
      Step 4) Profit
    • Given modern AI processors, not all the details are knowable. But it should be pretty easy to fool- with a rubber face mask and a pair of mirror shades. I know my face unlock on my phone can't recognize me with my glasses on- which I need to see the screen that is recognizing me.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by sittingnut ( 88521 )

        to generalize, so called modern "AI" is just data analysis, running on deterministic processors, using fuzzy logic aimed getting imperfect faster approximate results, rather than perfect results(which in some problems, especially real life problems. is impossible or near that).
        as such what is done, is "knowable". there is no secret knowledge there.
        secrets are due to humans rather than process or technology

        • The ratio of human beings who are software engineers to begin with is less than 1%.

          In this era of Javascript kiddies, want to make a guess at how many people understand "Fuzzy Logic"? Or for that matter, even deterministic processors?

          • ... want to make a guess at how many people understand "Fuzzy Logic"? Or for that matter, even deterministic processors?

            what for?
            if people want to stay ignorant about who and what sees, recognizes, and monitors them . let them.
            my point is, if people don't want to stay ignorant, and want to guard against that , they should have access to the knowledge.

            even if less than 1% understand how it is done in detail, that is still millions, and they can distill that knowledge to digestible forms for benefit of others,
            fact that only a few medical researchers understand everything about a certain virus, does not mean others do not want

            • The original point was that Open Source alone solves it all.

              I'm saying that the inclusion of fuzzy logic in the code, as a rule, changes the deterministic easy-to-understand-by-anybody-able-to-read-an-if-then-else-statement to esoteric-knowledge-that-is-hard-to-explain.

              That is why we package virus cures under anti-microbial medicines and vaccines that are easy for a 2nd year medical student to prescribe and use on their patients.

              • "The original point was that Open Source alone solves it all."
                where did it say that?!
                it is clear you are confused as to what i said, and arguing with strawmen.

                • "only way people can guard against abuse(and even just use) of facial recognition, is through knowing how it is done(where the cameras are, how the software works, what are details in database used) etc etc).
                  government should stick to facilitating opening all those details to everyone. it should not act to regulate that knowledge, as it wants, including to its own uses, without opening it up."

                  If you didn't mean that open source can guard against all abuse, then what did you mean?

    • The problem with Regulating technology. Is that advanced tech today will be cheap an mainstream in a decade. And with or without regulation it will be too cheap and easy to enforce.

  • by the_skywise ( 189793 ) on Friday July 13, 2018 @12:34PM (#56942030)
    fingerprint, voiceprint, face rec, retina scans ANYTHING of that nature from now into the future that can be used to personally ID you - none of that data should be stored or sold.
    • Doesn't the data need to be stored in order to match your identity?

      It shouldn't be wildly distributed. But if you want your biometrics to unlock your phone or laptop or open a door for you, then it needs to be stored.

      • by E-Rock ( 84950 )

        If it's just being used to match, you could store a hash rather than the source data. If the hash of the credentials you supply match, you're in, but they can't lose the data because they don't have it. Same issues with storing passwords this way, but a hell of a lot better than storing the source data.

  • This includes facial recognition.

    Oh, pro tip, change clothes, hats, wigs, glasses, alter your stride, stand next to different people, remember that face dazzle paint does work, and remember how they measure faces (points on nose, eyebrows, chin, mouth, cheekbones). Anything that alters those defeats all known facial recognition, even orange spray tans (sparkle rainbow is better, tho).

    • What works a lot better than any of that crap is a collection of independently flashing, pulsing, and strobing high-brightness IR LEDs... because all of these cameras are designed to work in the dark, and therefore have no IR filter. Altering your gait doesn't affect your biometrics as much as you think it does; you've still got the same skeleton, after all.

      All of the various means currently used to avoid detection will eventually be worked around, like painting rectangles on your face or wearing special cl

      • To you, the Ministry of Silly Walks isn't a useful thing, but it really does work.

        Oh, and ditch/replace your cell phone, the metadata correlation allows us to target the tracking.

  • by rapjr ( 732628 ) on Friday July 13, 2018 @12:58PM (#56942222)
    It's relatively easy to build your own facial surveillance tools using open source software and wouldn't cost much to deploy across a town or part of a city. Same thing for automated license plate readers. And walking gait biometric trackers. And heart rate biometric trackers using the small variations in face color caused by heart beats. And to add activity recognition trackers. And to add radio signal trackers. And it's easy to get people to install software that tracks their activities on phones and computers. These kinds of surveillance are not limited to just governments and big companies, _everyone_ with a few skills can do it. As soon as the CEO's and politicians start realizing this by finding their faces, and cars, and biometrics being tracked and their activities being broadcast to the world, then you'll start to see new laws. Not sure they'll do much good though, there is no obviously effective way to police this. How do you tell what the intent is behind a tiny camera and computer sitting in some random location? How do you even tell if it's a camera/computer/radio? It doesn't have to look like one. You could build your own car/face/biometric surveillance system using a few $100 of cheap cellphones. People are likely already doing this. Soon you'll be able to buy complete systems on eBay.
  • Nobody ever came out and said, "Please pass a law so I can be forced to stop doing something I shouldn't be doing," no, it's always, "Please pass a law to force them to stop doing something that I don't like." - Robert A. Heinlein
  • Microsoft can't seem to get their own facial recognition software working very well.

  • Outlaw all face coverings....

    Cold out? TOO BAD!

  • >"The only effective way to manage the use of technology by a government is for the government proactively to manage this use itself,"

    Also needs to cover private use and government contracts with private companies.

    But that also depends on us actually believing the government will obey its own laws and regulations.... something I think many of us don't believe. Especially when you start throwing in the kinds of things the FBI, DHS, JD, ATF, CIA, DMV, ICA, etc, are tasked with doing.

    Generally, the only sa

  • I mean... it's not like every other attempt to ban or regulate what sort of software people are allowed to write and use has failed comically or anything. Yup. PGP, Gnutella, Bittorrent... they're all just distant memories that no one uses anymore.

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