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How Smart TVs in Millions of US Homes Track More Than What's on Tonight (nytimes.com) 128

Posted by msmash from the aggressive-expansion dept.
The growing concern over online data and user privacy has been focused on tech giants like Facebook and devices like smartphones. But people's data is also increasingly being vacuumed right out of their living rooms via their televisions, sometimes without their knowledge. From a report: In recent years, data companies have harnessed new technology to immediately identify what people are watching on internet-connected TVs, then using that information to send targeted advertisements to other devices in their homes. Marketers, forever hungry to get their products in front of the people most likely to buy them, have eagerly embraced such practices. But the companies watching what people watch have also faced scrutiny from regulators and privacy advocates over how transparent they are being with users.

Samba TV is one of the bigger companies that track viewer information to make personalized show recommendations. The company said it collected viewing data from 13.5 million smart TVs in the United States, and it has raised $40 million in venture funding from investors including Time Warner, the cable operator Liberty Global and the billionaire Mark Cuban. Samba TV has struck deals with roughly a dozen TV brands -- including Sony, Sharp, TCL and Philips -- to place its software on certain sets. When people set up their TVs, a screen urges them to enable a service called Samba Interactive TV, saying it recommends shows and provides special offers "by cleverly recognizing onscreen content." But the screen, which contains the enable button, does not detail how much information Samba TV collects to make those recommendations.... Once enabled, Samba TV can track nearly everything that appears on the TV on a second-by-second basis, essentially reading pixels to identify network shows and ads, as well as programs on Netflix and HBO and even video games played on the TV.
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How Smart TVs in Millions of US Homes Track More Than What's on Tonight More

How Smart TVs in Millions of US Homes Track More Than What's on Tonight

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  • Don't see the big deal here. (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If it can suggest to me some shows that I will enjoy and would otherwise have missed, and it doesn't cost me any money, then I'm all for it. And conversely it keeps a lot of garbage off the air by letting them know what I don't watch. I feel this is information that really can't hurt me. I don't see them querying my TV to see what I was watching on the evening my mother in law was suspiciously murdered or anything.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      But someone has to categorize and classify all the other TV programs so that they can matched. That costs money. So they have to recover that money somehow. So by logging when your TV is turned on and off, which program was watched and for how long, whether the channel was changed because of an advert, which advert was watched, they can figure out your maximum tolerance for watching adverts against watching a TV show. They can also figure out when you get home in the evening, when you go to bed and what tim

      • >But someone has to categorize and classify all the other TV programs so that they can matched.

        Why? Other than for completely new showsit's probably far more effective to simply say "you watch shows X, Y, and Z - a lot of other other people who watch those shows also watch W and R, you might like them too" Such pattern recognition tends to find a lot of non-obvious connections that would be overlooked by human classification, especially as it gets more sophisticated.

        Plus, it's fairly cheap to do, so the

        • They're a surveillance device connected to your home network - they can also monitor all your web-browsing activity (by site if not by specific content, with https becoming more ubiquitous), and identify every piece of networked hardware you own via MAC address

          Please don't spread FUD. If you have evidence that smart TVs are monitoring network traffic go ahead and post it. Otherwise please stop making up shit. Smart TVs *could* monitor your network traffic in the same way ANY device connected to your network could do the same... including your router itself.

          Unless you only allow OSS on your network and review all of the code.

    • Re:Don't see the big deal here. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Cajun Hell ( 725246 ) on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:50AM (#56896014) Homepage Journal

      If it can suggest to me some shows that I will enjoy and would otherwise have missed, and it doesn't cost me any money, then I'm all for it.

      That's the spirit! It's nice to finally see that some people are team players instead of looking for darkness in everything.

      Now please finish entering your masturbation log (the period of July 1 - 5 appears to be incomplete). We need this data so that our algorithms can most accurately forecast when it will be the best time to show another porn ad. And you know the drill: it's free to have it scheduled for you, and a mere $0.23 to instead scheduled it to appear in the feed for that special someone.

    • And the camera on the TV also?

    • If it can suggest to me some shows that I will enjoy and would otherwise have missed, and it doesn't cost me any money, then I'm all for it. And conversely it keeps a lot of garbage off the air by letting them know what I don't watch. I feel this is information that really can't hurt me. I don't see them querying my TV to see what I was watching on the evening my mother in law was suspiciously murdered or anything.

      However, you might be in trouble when they find that you murdered your MIL in the living room in view of your Smart TVs camera.

    • I have two smart TVs, so-called. they are not connected to the Internet. doing so exposes them to worms, viruses, and malware that the makers do not correct via updates. it also exposes "partner content" to my life. I get my content from $30 Roku boxes that are as replaceable as fuses if they get punked. I'm still smarter than my TVs.

    • If it can suggest to me some shows that I will enjoy and would otherwise have missed, and it doesn't cost me any money, then I'm all for it. And conversely it keeps a lot of garbage off the air by letting them know what I don't watch.

      The objective function is NOT making you happy. It's maximizing profit.

      I feel this is information that really can't hurt me.

      When they are able to determine the limits of your tolerances to "garbage" good luck believing it won't be maximally leveraged against YOU.

      I don't see them querying my TV to see what I was watching on the evening my mother in law was suspiciously murdered or anything.

      I don't either. This would be pointless and redundant as all of the data would have already been transmitted and stored by a third party subject to the third party doctrine.

    • A *person* might not query your viewing habits, but machine learning might use them to help assign probabilities to your matching various patterns.

      Did you re-watch certain scenes in "little miss sunshine". Might reduce your chances at a teaching job.

      Do you watch movies that glorify criminal activity or re-watch scenes that present extremists in a positive light?

      Do you rewatch sex scenes in movies more or less often than the average viewer. Do your watching habits indicates that your sexual orientation ma

  • Is this still news? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Joce640k ( 829181 ) on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:07AM (#56895816) Homepage

    How many times do we need to repeat this story?

    1) X is put into person's home/pocket.
    2) X asks for your email address and phone number then starts to track every movement and button press.
    3) People act all surprised!

    Film at 11.

    • One more time! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by sjbe ( 173966 ) on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:18AM (#56895864)

      How many times do we need to repeat this story?

      One more time as always.

    • We need to keep repeating stories like this because we don't accept that they should be normal even if they are.

      There are all sorts of things that are normal in world both inside and outside the tech spectrum that need to be brought up even if they are normal practice because if they aren't brought up then we either fail to recognise them or just accept them.

      • We need to keep repeating stories like this because we don't accept that they should be normal even if they are.

        Why? Why does anyone really give a rat's ass whether the advertising they see is "targeted" or not? It's not like advertising generates a mysterious force that causes you to go out in zombie-mode and buy, buy, buy!

        Personally, between the adblockers on my computers and my complete disinclination to buy much of anything, I can't really see this as doing anything except wasting some company's mon

        • Because your world is based on what you know. Targeted advertising allows a better control of your world view where better is in the hands of the advertiser. As an example, think of music chart manipulation [nytimes.com].

          "Until 1991 the pop music charts were notoriously unreliable. Paying off record store employees with free albums, concert tickets and even vacations and washing machines was the standard music-business method of manipulating record sales figures. Even the Billboard magazine charts, considered the most

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      There is no step 2, it doesn't ask for your email address or phone number. All it needs is some unique ID that the TV OS supplies it.

      Clearly telling people this doesn't work. It's a failed solution to the problem. What you need are proper privacy laws like the GDPR, where they have to get you to explicitly opt-in to all the data sharing separately from anything else and state in clear language what they intend to do.

    • How many times? As many times as it happens. News isn't supposed to be entertaining. Here's an exercise for you. Rank CSPAN, Fox News, and World Weekly News in entertainment value. Now, rank them in how consequential the stories they cover are. You will see there is an inverse relationship.

  • your cable box reports all kinds of info as well (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:10AM (#56895836)

    your cable box reports all kinds of info as well about what you are viewing.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      your cable box reports all kinds of info as well about what you are viewing.

      Yeah, but I make sure I'm always watching stuff I don't like. So the joke's on them.

  • Dont network your TV (Score:3)

    by AHuxley ( 892839 ) on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:13AM (#56895848) Journal
    Bring media and more trusted networked devices to your display.
    Never allow your TV to report back your media use habits.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Chromecast? shit.
      uh ... Fire stick? They advertise that thing is listening to you.
      Xbox? damnit.
      DVD players and VCRs are the only things that might not be spying on you.

      At least with a book, it's only the library keeping track.

      • That hot librarian knows what you read.

        • Yeah, but librarians are usually pretty adamant about defending your privacy. Something about generally being well-read individuals with an awareness of their traditional role as guardians of the public's access to knowledge against the thought police.

          So yeah, that hot librarian may know what you read, but they'll probably put up a huge fight to protect that information from those who would abuse it. More than a few libraries have chosen to destroy their records rather than allow government authorities to

  • First HOSTS (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Thankfully I use APK's Hosts File Engine For Smart TVs, so there no chance of tracking me.

    • Or just don't enable the wifi and don't let it pick up an IP address. I really don't like that they have a mic.
      When I need access to NetFlix, Amazon prime, etc, I use my Sony BluRay player instead, which gives me a better picture anyway for some reason (Samsung vs Sony maybe?) At least that divorces it from the television and is only on when I'm watching 'net shows.

  • That's why I use an Amazon Fire Stick (Score:5, Funny)

    by Oswald McWeany ( 2428506 ) on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:22AM (#56895884)

    Smart TVs tracking you and invading your privacy!

    That's scandalous... that's why I only use an Amazon Firestick and control it with my Amazon Alexa. This way I can't be tracked. Nothing I do will be uploaded!

    I'll make a post to Facebook recommending all my followers there to do the same.

    • Don't forget to make a few tweets as well. Or post on Instagram, Snapchat, or tumblr... it's like everyone wants to star on Big Brother.

    • The difference is that you get something out of being tracked by Google or Amazon, but you get nothing out of being tracked by a smart tv, or some store's loyalty card program. Is the former kind of tracking still a problem? Sure. Is the latter a bigger kind? Also yes, because there may be some controls on the former kind, but there are none on the latter.

  • " on internet-connected TVs "

    Disconnect said device from the Internet. Problem solved via a simple solution.
    or
    Allow the connection, identify telemetry addresses and block those at the router. Problem solved via slightly more complex solution.

    The former is easier than the latter.
    This really applies to EVERYTHING you connect to the Internet / Network. Assume it's hostile or a potentially leaky device and treat it as such.

    " Trust, but verify " as the saying goes.

    • "...identify telemetry addresses..."

      And there's the problem right there. You know how to do that. The overwhelming majority of people who use "smart" TV's don't. And they certainly don't know how to deal with the problem at the router. So they just look the other way and try not to think about the information they're giving up. Don't forget, it's not as though this is the ONLY data being gathered and used to build a profile on millions of walking wallets. Marketers get this information and combine i

  • Oh, now I get it. (Score:5, Funny)

    by vrassoc ( 581619 ) on Thursday July 05, 2018 @09:49AM (#56896006)

    So that explains the ads I see after having left our house in the care of a house sitter for two weeks. Man, I knew that last guy was a freak.

  • Yet another "smart device" who's real purpose it to monitor and monetize the masses. "Smart Devices" are not for consumers - their for corporations.
    • I hear my work colleagues discussing smart devices, assistants and what not all the time and I don't understand why would you ever want to put such an intruding technology inside your house. Is the promise of convenience and being able to boast to your neighbours really worth giving up every information about you? Soon enough those devices will be capable of recognising their surroundings and reporting back what you own, what you do, perhaps even what's written on your correspondence if you read your letter

  • When does the bubble pop? (Score:3)

    by Gilgaron ( 575091 ) on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:32AM (#56896626)
    I still have this feeling like all this data valuation is a bubble, it is hard enough to glean useful trends out of rigorously collected scientific data. How much does Charmin pay Samsung to find out that the basement TV primarily streams PJ Mask and use that info to try to influence whether I buy the store-brand generic at Kroger vs Sam's Club? My understanding is that the market for banner ads has mostly collapsed as a way to make money, what'll be the next fad after tracking metrics crashes?

  • Fools. (Score:3)

    by Rick Schumann ( 4662797 ) on Thursday July 05, 2018 @11:54AM (#56896768) Journal
    You were a fool to buy these so-called 'smart' devices in the first place, and you're even more fools now for keeping them -- or at least for continuing to allow them access to the Internet. You claim you don't care about your own privacy, but in reality you at some point will, and in the meantime you're being inconsiderate of everyone else by encouraging these shitty companies to use every dirty trick they can to pry into everyone else's lives, too. Repent!

    • oh yeah because your computer that you're using to post on slashdot doesn't have ten times the issues as that smart TV.

      PFFFFFFtttttttttt!!!!!!!

  • I expect TVs and appliances will soon have LTE cellular modems so they can collect consumer info without the need WiFi permissions. It will be close to impossible to turn them off.

    • Those aren't free though. The consumer would have to pay a monthly fee and would notice pretty quickly.

      For the few customers who use a third party streaming device instead of using the "smarts" in the TV, they don't care. As long as they're collecting data from the other 99% they're happy. After all, they don't need LTE as long as the consumer hooks the TV up to some fat broadband for streamng.

      • >Those aren't free though. The consumer would have to pay a monthly fee and would notice pretty quickly.

        The manufacturer will pay the minimal cellular fee, not the consumer, because:
        1. They want to be in control of the account and data.
        2. It will be cheap in bulk with the new M2M services.
        3. They will make more from selling your information than the cellular bill.
        4. It will be always on when your TV is plugged in.

        That's similar to the cost model giving people get free cellular data with a wire

        • Really? $9+ a month (price I pay at work for low bandwidth modem sim cards) will be less than they get by selling data? This still baffles me. How can someone's viewing habits be worth that much. Why aren't advertisers paying ME for this data? I'll turn off my adblock for $10/month.

          I think there's a dotcom like bubble going on yet again where companies are overestimating the value of advertising.

          • I expect it will be sub $1 per device per month for LTE-CatM (slow data 1MB/s) when you have lots of devices on a corporate account. I'm not sure how low it will go once LTE-CatM is mature and in widespread use.

            I have seen fast data-only tablet plans (no voice) for only $5/month with low data amounts (which can be OK for an IoT device).

  • Every upgrade the TV gets this fucking thing tries to get you to agree to it by using several dialogues (if you keep choosing to tell it to fuck off) and with clever wording and button placements.

    This shit should be illegal and companies should be fined. Starting with Sony and/or Samba TV.

  • We are talking about a Samba privacy issue, right?

  • This should come as no surprise; we can assume that every internet connected device spies on you.

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