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The Courts Communications Privacy United States

Supreme Court: Warrant Generally Needed To Track Cell Phone Location Data (cnn.com) 195

daveschroeder writes: The Supreme Court on Friday said the government generally needs a warrant if it wants to track an individual's location through cell phone records over an extended period of time. The ruling [PDF] is a major victory for advocates of increased privacy rights who argued more protections were needed when it comes to the government obtaining information from a third party such as a cell phone company. The 5-4 opinion was written by Chief Justice John Roberts siding with the four most liberal justices. It is a loss for the Justice Department, which had argued that an individual has diminished privacy rights when it comes to information that has been voluntarily shared with someone else.
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Supreme Court: Warrant Generally Needed To Track Cell Phone Location Data

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  • Good news! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 22, 2018 @10:15AM (#56828590)

    Now, what about things like license plate trackers that track where your car goes?

    • Now, what about things like license plate trackers that track where your car goes?

      Dude. This is a major victory for people who care about civil liberties and freedom. Take a moment and enjoy it.

  • Never forget (Score:3, Insightful)

    by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @10:22AM (#56828634) Journal

    The 5-4 opinion was written by Chief Justice John Roberts siding with the four most liberal justices. It is a loss for the Justice Department, which had argued that an individual has diminished privacy rights when it comes to information that has been voluntarily shared with someone else.

    So, the liberals on the court voted in favor of your right to privacy and the "conservatives", including Trump's boy Gorsuch, voted that fuck your privacy rights, the police need to track you without a warrant. Also, the Trump Administration argued that your freedom isn't as important as the right of the government to track you.

    Remember that the next time some Republican or Trumpist tells you that they're all about the rights of the individual and smaller government. Republicans will always be the party of authoritarianism and the elite.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      You mean the court case that was appealed to the Supreme Court by Obama’s Justice department?

      I hope the Russian vodka is worth it popecrapso

      • Re:Never forget (Score:5, Informative)

        by KixWooder ( 5232441 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @11:00AM (#56828848)
        and strongly supported by Trump's justice department. Both sides wanted the opposite of this ruling.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          You all somehow think that departments change with administrations... The Federal government changes VERY little from administration to administration. Sure the heads change, but the workers all know they were there before the head and they will be there after, so changes are slow.

      • I'm glad the decision went this way, but it was a close call. The dissenting argument was support for the longstanding "third party doctrine" which is that the Fourth doesn't apply because the records are not owned by the defendant, but by his communications carrier. If this really puts an end to third party, the implications are huge. The federosaurus will try for an immediate Congressional "fix" on whatever technical grounds it thinks will keep its investigative machinery going, but it will be highly cont

        • Do we get to see our entire medical records now, as HIPAA was supposed to specify? Can a communications provider refuse to share personal records with the government now, applying Apple-style encryption to them? For companies that did so, this could be a good selling point in a highly competitive market.

          Any business/industry/etc the US government becomes really annoyed with but can't outlaw or ban for various reasons ranging from political/PR to legal/constitutional gets the "Operation Choke-Point" treatment where banks and financial institutions are pressured to refuse to do any business or perform any financial transactions for certain businesses like gun stores or else suffer endless audits and investigations by multiple agencies and departments.

          I'd like to see the SCOTUS rule against that practice. Gov

    • Re:Never forget (Score:4, Informative)

      by schwit1 ( 797399 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @10:32AM (#56828706)

      Gorsuch didn't like that the Roberts ruling was too vague and incomplete on addressing prior fourth amendment cases.

      The Court today says that judges should use Katz’s reasonable expectation of privacy test to decide what Fourth Amendment rights people have in cell-site location information, explaining that “no single rubric definitively resolves which expectations of privacy are entitled to protection.” Ante, at 5. But then it offers a twist. Lower courts should be sure to add two special principles to their Katz calculus: the need to avoid “arbitrary power” and the importance of “plac[ing] obstacles in the way of a too permeating police surveillance.” Ante, at 6 (internal quotation marks omitted). While surely lauda- ble, these principles don’t offer lower courts much guidance. The Court does not tell us, for example, how far to carry either principle or how to weigh them against the legitimate needs of law enforcement. At what point does access to electronic data amount to “arbitrary” authority? When does police surveillance become “too permeating”?

      • Re:Never forget (Score:4, Insightful)

        by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @10:58AM (#56828834) Journal

        Gorsuch didn't like that the Roberts ruling was too vague and incomplete on addressing prior fourth amendment cases.

        Gorsuch voted in favor of the government's right to track your location without a warrant. You can spin that all you want, but it's in the record books now and you can't refute it.

        All the talk of "rights of the individual" and "The Constitution" are lip service. If he supported liberty over tyranny, he could have voted with the liberal majority and written a concurring opinion to clarify his position.

        Bootlickers gonna bootlick.

        • This case is the wireless equivalent of "Can the government search your garbage [wikipedia.org] without a warrant after you've put it on the street corner for pickup?" The issue here wasn't if the government needed a warrant to track you as you're mischaracterizing it. It's if the government needed a warrant to obtain personal information you've already willingly given up to a third party. Unlike possessions inside your home or car or on your person, it is not at all obvious that these things enjoy 4th Amendment protect
          • This case is the wireless equivalent of "Can the government search your garbage [wikipedia.org] without a warrant after you've put it on the street corner for pickup?" The issue here wasn't if the government needed a warrant to track you as you're mischaracterizing it. It's if the government needed a warrant to obtain personal information you've already willingly given up to a third party.

            That is remarkably stupid. Just because you share something with a third party doesn't mean you give up your rights.

          • by orlanz ( 882574 )

            No, it isn't. In the garbage case, the government can search your garbage without a warranty. However, they can't do it every single day for a year and aggregate data upon just you to use in a case. That would still require a warrant (Gorsuch actually uses garbage as an example that legally is vague but realistically isn't. An owner would interject if you were to go through his garbage... thus some sort of privacy is expected).

            The current case is resting on two foundation cases. Very oversimplifying, b

          • This case is the wireless equivalent of "Can the government search your garbage [wikipedia.org] without a warrant after you've put it on the street corner for pickup?" The issue here wasn't if the government needed a warrant to track you as you're mischaracterizing it. It's if the government needed a warrant to obtain personal information you've already willingly given up to a third party. Unlike possessions inside your home or car or on your person, it is not at all obvious that these things enjoy 4th Amendment protection.

            No, it isn't equivalent. By putting something in the garbage, you take a specific, explicit action that disclaims ownership of that item. Using a cell phone is not explicitly telling the police that they can track you at all times; (almost) nobody buys a cell phone for the specific purpose of being tracked.

        • I think Gorsuch wanted a solid legal foundation that lower courts could use, whereas the decision as it stands doesn't clarify exactly how much law enforcement power is too much. So expect a revisiting in the future. There is room in the court for pragmatic decisions that affect just one case, as often the supreme court prefers that the lower courts come up with the precedents.

          • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

            by PopeRatzo ( 965947 )

            I think Gorsuch wanted a solid legal foundation that lower courts could use

            More likely he wanted to pay back the Republicans for holding Scalia's seat empty for a year so he could be nominated by an illegitimate president.

        • No, he wants to see the third party doctrine totally done away with, and attacks this ruling as being too narrow: https://supreme.justia.com/cas... [justia.com]

          • No, he wants to see the third party doctrine totally done away with, and attacks this ruling as being too narrow.

            And to prove how much he wants to do that, he voted to allow the government to access your location information without a warrant.

            If Gorsuch was even halfway serious, he would have voted with the majority and written his own opinion. He's just what everyone expected, an authoritarian Trump boot-licker. He will always vote with the Trump justice department. He will only exert his "conservative"

      • The full text of Gorsuch's dissent is here: https://supreme.justia.com/cas... [justia.com]

        To summarize, he wants a case that would allow the court to definitively nuke the third party doctrine. He does not feel that this was the right case. He wanted to concur in the broad, brightline ruling that this decision was not.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Remember that the next time some Republican or Trumpist tells you that they're all about the rights of the individual and smaller government. Republicans will always be the party of authoritarianism and the elite.

      Came to say exactly this ... they're in favour of small government, except when it comes to the surveillance state, enshrining laws which are pushed by religious people, and protecting the profits of corporations.

      They are consistently against privacy, Constitutional rights, and anything which limit

      • I see no evidence the Republicans like small government, nor do they appear to understand prudent fiscal policy. If you run a Trillion dollar a year deficit during "Good Times", what happens when we get a recession?
      • by Raenex ( 947668 )

        The Democrats have become the party of illegal immigrants and transgender bathroom "rights".

    • Re: (Score:1, Interesting)

      If only people like yourself would actually read the material rather than just skim for confirmation bias. We would have never had a President Trump. Alas even in opposition to Trump you and many like you are revealed as the problem rather than the solution.

      A simple read of Gorsuch's dissenting opinion shows how you are wrong.
      • If only people like yourself would actually read the material rather than just skim for confirmation bias. We would have never had a President Trump.

        What you are saying is that people who voted for Clinton are responsible for President Trump.

    • Re:Never forget (Score:5, Insightful)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @10:58AM (#56828836)

      Also, the Obama and Trump Administrations argued that your freedom isn't as important as the right of the government to track you.

      Fixed that for ya. This case hit the supreme court petition list in 2016, with arguments in 2017. That means it started in the lower courts well before that time, and under the Obama administration, then continued under the Trump administration. Either could have dropped it, but they didn't.

      • You're absolutely right, this case was mostly handled under the Obama administration, and the Trump administration could have chosen not to defend it.

        It occurs to me that the legislature is supposed to pass laws saying what people can't do, including cops. The Constitution, as interpreted by SCOTUS, is the BARE MINIMUM protection that Congress and state legislatures MUST respect. Why the heck are we living under the bare minimum respect for our rights? Why has no state, under either party, ever passed a la

        • Why has no state, under either party, ever passed a law saying cops must respect our rights by ... (not doing mass surveillance or whatever)?

          Utah: https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/utah-enacts-significant-location-and-communications-privacy-bill

        • The only major bills protecting rights which come to mind are the Civil Rights Acts, which barred racial discrimination. Of course, those were pushed by Republicans, with Democrats fighting against them, including a filibuster by Grand Dragon Robert Byrd, the only person Democrats elected to Congress for 55 years straight.

          You're missing the part about it being Democrats introducing it [wikipedia.org], a Democratic president signing it [wikipedia.org], and how most (somehow Byrd stayed on) of the racists fled the Democrats into the waiting arms of the Republicans. The result was the openly racist Southern Strategy [wikipedia.org] which persists as part of the GOP electoral map and campaign strategy to this day.

          I did like the part about Byrd though -- didn't know that

          • by Raenex ( 947668 )

            "The Myth [nytimes.com] of the 'Southern Strategy'"

            It's an easy story to believe, but this year two political scientists called it into question. In their book "The End of Southern Exceptionalism," Richard Johnston of the University of Pennsylvania and Byron Shafer of the University of Wisconsin argue that the shift in the South from Democratic to Republican was overwhelmingly a question not of race but of economic growth. In the postwar era, they note, the South transformed itself from a backward region to an engine of

    • Re:Never forget (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <mashiki@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Friday June 22, 2018 @11:11AM (#56828902) Homepage

      including Trump's boy Gorsuch, voted that fuck your privacy rights,

      Did you even read his argument as to why he dissented? Obviously not, otherwise you'd know that he did because he felt that the other opinions were too vague in order to be in favor of it. Go on, read it. Dust off that annotated copy of rulings, and you'll figure it out. When you do, you'll also figure out why you look like an idiot to anyone who's studied law.

      • Re:Never forget (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Kernel Kurtz ( 182424 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @11:29AM (#56829012)

        Did you even read his argument as to why he dissented? Obviously not, otherwise you'd know that he did because he felt that the other opinions were too vague in order to be in favor of it. Go on, read it. Dust off that annotated copy of rulings, and you'll figure it out. When you do, you'll also figure out why you look like an idiot to anyone who's studied law.

        So you are saying that rather than vote for it, even though he thought that it is not precise enough, he decided to vote against it and write that it is not precise enough.

        Still pretty obvious whose interests he is siding with then IMHO.

        • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

          Still pretty obvious whose interests he is siding with then IMHO.

          Sure is. The interests would be that the law is not up to date with the current technology, and voting against avoids legislating from the bench. This is also the reason why the US is 30 years behind the rest of the world in terms of privacy legislation, but you people seem to be happier legislating from the bench.

      • Re:Never forget (Score:4, Insightful)

        by jittles ( 1613415 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @12:12PM (#56829278)

        including Trump's boy Gorsuch, voted that fuck your privacy rights,

        Did you even read his argument as to why he dissented? Obviously not, otherwise you'd know that he did because he felt that the other opinions were too vague in order to be in favor of it. Go on, read it. Dust off that annotated copy of rulings, and you'll figure it out. When you do, you'll also figure out why you look like an idiot to anyone who's studied law.

        He can claim all the reasons he wants but that doesn’t make it any more inappropriate for anyone on the supreme court to dissent from this issue. The only consent I can give in this matter is to A) Not have a cell phone and be completely unable to maintain a job or B) give up my personal location data and be able to continue my career. There is no other way to look at this issue. Cell phones and internet have become mandatory parts of life for MOST people in the industrialized world.

        • So maybe what we should have then is Congress writing a law like the Stored Communications Act but include phone tracking data in it. Dissecting this issue simply isn't a job for the Supreme Court.

          This will not happen, of course, because Congress is fucking worthless for anything other than moral grandstanding.

        • Cell phones and internet have become mandatory parts of life for MOST people in the industrialized world.

          I would have to disagree....

          I've worked in IT for decades, and until I did work from home (i.e. went into an office), I have never once had my work depend on me:

          1. Have a cell phone

          2. Have an internet connection at home.

          I've had landlines in the past...that sufficed for calls at home,

          So...while it is HANDY and convenient and a great help, I don't think we've reached the tipping point to where inte

          • by sjames ( 1099 )

            We finally got my Mom a cellphone because if she ever had car trouble, finding a payphone would be nigh impossible. Many people's landlines will fail within 24 hours of a power failure now. I have seen parking downtown where the old parking meters have been replaced by an app.

            And many people DO have their work depend on them having a cellphone. Your exact personal circumstances cannot be reliably extrapolated to the whole population.

        • I think it would be possible to have cell phones regularly switch their IMEI codes with other phones. It would require them to route their calls through a VPN that keeps track of the details/crypto and hands out IMEI codes. You'd still be able to make and receive phone calls, and nobody else would be able to track you or listen in to your calls (without breaking into the VPN).
        • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

          You've just argued that his point is correct, and that the proper reasoning would be for congress to write the appropriate law rather then the court legislate from the bench.

      • Re:Never forget (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Dragonslicer ( 991472 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @12:59PM (#56829570)

        including Trump's boy Gorsuch, voted that fuck your privacy rights,

        Did you even read his argument as to why he dissented? Obviously not, otherwise you'd know that he did because he felt that the other opinions were too vague in order to be in favor of it. Go on, read it. Dust off that annotated copy of rulings, and you'll figure it out. When you do, you'll also figure out why you look like an idiot to anyone who's studied law.

        If Gorsuch thought that a warrant is needed, he would have voted that way. If he did, but didn't like the reasoning that Roberts et al used, he could have written a concurring opinion. The fact that he voted that a warrant isn't necessary tells you that he thinks a warrant isn't necessary.

        • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

          The fact that he voted that a warrant isn't necessary tells you that he thinks a warrant isn't necessary.

          And that's the correct decision based on the current state of the law. So what does that tell you? Figure it out? It means that the proper solution is to write and amend the existing law to be that, and have it tested.

      • I have no idea how this got modded up. He could have written a *concurring* opinion as has already been pointed out. But even if the post was factually correct, having the ad hominem (calling the OP an idiot) is enough that -1 is the correct moderation.
        • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

          That's because the original post was written by an idiot, that has repeatedly shown that they lack the basic understanding of law, separation of powers, functioning government, and would be much happier taking a hyper-partisan approach to the issue then adding something constructive(failing to read the opinion). That doesn't make it an ad-hom, unless you're lacking in their past comments and hyper-partisan history. If I was actually going to use an ad-hom, I would have started with a low-IQ retard, stacke

    • Re:Never forget (Score:5, Informative)

      by magzteel ( 5013587 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @11:24AM (#56828982)

      The 5-4 opinion was written by Chief Justice John Roberts siding with the four most liberal justices. It is a loss for the Justice Department, which had argued that an individual has diminished privacy rights when it comes to information that has been voluntarily shared with someone else.

      So, the liberals on the court voted in favor of your right to privacy and the "conservatives", including Trump's boy Gorsuch, voted that fuck your privacy rights, the police need to track you without a warrant. Also, the Trump Administration argued that your freedom isn't as important as the right of the government to track you.

      Remember that the next time some Republican or Trumpist tells you that they're all about the rights of the individual and smaller government. Republicans will always be the party of authoritarianism and the elite.

      Did you read the ruling? It's very interesting. This is from the dissent:

      "The Court has twice held that individuals have no
      Fourth Amendment interests in business records which
      are possessed, owned, and controlled by a third party.
      United States v. Miller, 425 U. S. 435 (1976); Smith v.
      Maryland, 442 U. S. 735 (1979). This is true even when
      the records contain personal and sensitive information. So
      when the Government uses a subpoena to obtain, for
      example, bank records, telephone records, and credit card
      statements from the businesses that create and keep these
      records, the Government does not engage in a search of
      the business’s customers within the meaning of the Fourth
      Amendment.

      In this case petitioner challenges the Government’s
      right to use compulsory process to obtain a now-common
      kind of business record: cell-site records held by cell phone
      service providers. The Government acquired the records
      through an investigative process enacted by Congress.
      Upon approval by a neutral magistrate, and based on the
      Government’s duty to show reasonable necessity, it authorizes
      the disclosure of records and information that are
      under the control and ownership of the cell phone service
      provider, not its customer. Petitioner acknowledges that
      the Government may obtain a wide variety of business
      records using compulsory process, and he does not ask the
      Court to revisit its precedents. Yet he argues that, under
      those same precedents, the Government searched his
      records when it used court-approved compulsory process to
      obtain the cell-site information at issue here.

      Cell-site records, however, are no different from the
      many other kinds of business records the Government has
      a lawful right to obtain by compulsory process. Customers
      like petitioner do not own, possess, control, or use the
      records, and for that reason have no reasonable expectation
      that they cannot be disclosed pursuant to lawful
      compulsory process.

      The Court today disagrees. It holds for the first time
      that by using compulsory process to obtain records of a
      business entity, the Government has not just engaged in
      an impermissible action, but has conducted a search of the
      business’s customer. The Court further concludes that the
      search in this case was unreasonable and the Government
      needed to get a warrant to obtain more than six days of
      cell-site records. "

      • Re:Never forget (Score:5, Insightful)

        by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @11:35AM (#56829048) Journal

        Did you read the ruling? It's very interesting. This is from the dissent:

        This is a long-standing American tradition that goes back to the Founding Fathers: Use the flowery language of Liberty, but when it comes right down to it, support Tyranny. That's what the dissenters did today.

        • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

          by magzteel ( 5013587 )

          Did you read the ruling? It's very interesting. This is from the dissent:

          This is a long-standing American tradition that goes back to the Founding Fathers: Use the flowery language of Liberty, but when it comes right down to it, support Tyranny. That's what the dissenters did today.

          Translation: you didn't read it and you don't care what the legal rationale is.

          • Re:Never forget (Score:4, Insightful)

            by PopeRatzo ( 965947 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @12:07PM (#56829250) Journal

            Translation: you didn't read it and you don't care what the legal rationale is.

            At the end of the day, it's just rationale. He voted to allow the government to access your location without a warrant. Full stop. Lip service is lip service.

            • Translation: you didn't read it and you don't care what the legal rationale is.

              At the end of the day, it's just rationale. He voted to allow the government to access your location without a warrant. Full stop. Lip service is lip service.

              He dissented from the majority ruling because he felt it was inconsistent with the law and with prior court rulings regarding government access to business records.
              If the laws are out of step with the times it is the elected congress that is tasked with changing them, not the appointed justices. The alternative means your rights can change at any time based on the makeup and whims of the current court.

              If you ever get around to reading it you will note that under certain circumstances they can still get the

              • The alternative means your rights can change at any time based on the makeup and whims of the current court.

                And you apparently believe your rights can change at any time based upon a vote of congress. Historically, the courts can be trusted to protect rights more often than Congress. That's why the Founding Fathers decided to have a co-equal Supreme Court.

                • You are correct. Your rights are established by law. Some of those rights are incorporated into the constitution, a document that can be altered. Other rights and responsibilities are established through the legislative process. The Supreme Court's job is to interpret and de-conflict the laws made by the legislature. The do protect your rights, but only as they are recorded in law. There is some room for degree of interpretation, but they could not take up a case, and rule that you are entitled to a f

          • Did you read the ruling? It's very interesting. This is from the dissent:

            This is a long-standing American tradition that goes back to the Founding Fathers: Use the flowery language of Liberty, but when it comes right down to it, support Tyranny. That's what the dissenters did today.

            Translation: you didn't read it and you don't care what the legal rationale is.

            Except that PAST business records did not track your position 24/7, did they? So how exactly do those previous ruling apply? And how can they claim that I consented to provide my location when I have no choice but to provide my location and I am required to have a cell phone for my job. So what choice do I have in the matter? Find a fast food job where no one cares if I have a cell phone?

            • Did you read the ruling? It's very interesting. This is from the dissent:

              This is a long-standing American tradition that goes back to the Founding Fathers: Use the flowery language of Liberty, but when it comes right down to it, support Tyranny. That's what the dissenters did today.

              Translation: you didn't read it and you don't care what the legal rationale is.

              Except that PAST business records did not track your position 24/7, did they? So how exactly do those previous ruling apply? And how can they claim that I consented to provide my location when I have no choice but to provide my location and I am required to have a cell phone for my job. So what choice do I have in the matter? Find a fast food job where no one cares if I have a cell phone?

              I didn't express support for either the majority or dissent. I think both positions have merit. What happens in these discussions is people are so attached to an outcome that they can't rationally discuss the issues or the appropriate way of achieving the outcome. They just want what they want when they want it.

          • Did you read the ruling? It's very interesting. This is from the dissent:

            This is a long-standing American tradition that goes back to the Founding Fathers: Use the flowery language of Liberty, but when it comes right down to it, support Tyranny. That's what the dissenters did today.

            Translation: you didn't read it and you don't care what the legal rationale is.

            Yep. And not an emanation or penumbra to be found in the dissent either, just legal reasoning.

        • What? I do hope you don't live in the USA then.
          • What? I do hope you don't live in the USA then.

            No, I live in California.

            • Well, one might argue my previous statement was correct, I suppose.
              • Well, one might argue my previous statement was correct, I suppose.

                Yes, that was my point. California is not part of the USA, and that is why we moved here.

    • The 5-4 opinion was written by Chief Justice John Roberts siding with the four most liberal justices. It is a loss for the Justice Department, which had argued that an individual has diminished privacy rights when it comes to information that has been voluntarily shared with someone else.

      So, the liberals on the court voted in favor of your right to privacy and the "conservatives", including Trump's boy Gorsuch, voted that fuck your privacy rights, the police need to track you without a warrant. Also, the Trump Administration argued that your freedom isn't as important as the right of the government to track you.

      Remember that the next time some Republican or Trumpist tells you that they're all about the rights of the individual and smaller government. Republicans will always be the party of authoritarianism and the elite.

      The dissent has some actual legal reasoning, which you might read.

      I suppose it could have used your "emanations and penumbras", but some silly people rely on actual law and stuff.

      • The dissent has some actual legal reasoning, which you might read.

        He voted to allow the government to collect your location data wiithout a warrant. His reasoning is worth fuck-all. His motivations were purely political, in support of an authoritarian president.

        • The dissent has some actual legal reasoning, which you might read.

          He voted to allow the government to collect your location data wiithout a warrant. His reasoning is worth fuck-all. His motivations were purely political, in support of an authoritarian president.

          Your motives are purely political. Someone actually dared to dissent from the result you wanted, so it must be because "da fascist".

          You don't have to agree with his legal reasoning, but he did in fact use some.

          It may not even be the outcome he wanted. Honest legal reasoning sometimes has that result, you know.

    • It's somewhat simplistic to label the justices as conservative or liberal. Some of them were appointed before such definitions changed (which happens every year). People are not ones and zeros, and so the justices are not either, and you cannot divide every political opinion into a clear cut conservative vs liberal bucket, especially as such definitions are fluid.

      What's happening is that a lot of people assume that wanting strong government actions to prevent crime is a core conservative value when in fac

      • People are not ones and zeros, and so the justices are not either

        I disagree. Justices Alito and Thomas are both zeroes.

    • by Agripa ( 139780 )

      So, the liberals on the court voted in favor of your right to privacy and the "conservatives", including Trump's boy Gorsuch, voted that fuck your privacy rights, the police need to track you without a warrant.

      Read Gorsuch's dissent; he did not support the decision because it did not go far enough.

      • Read Gorsuch's dissent; he did not support the decision because it did not go far enough.

        So instead, he voted to allow the government to continue collecting location data without a warrant. That makes sense. He cares so much about the Fourth Amendment that he voted against it.

        • by Agripa ( 139780 )

          Read Gorsuch's dissent; he did not support the decision because it did not go far enough.

          So instead, he voted to allow the government to continue collecting location data without a warrant. That makes sense. He cares so much about the Fourth Amendment that he voted against it.

          Read it again. His point is that the "reasonable expectation of privacy" test which the majority upheld is being used to justify warrantless searches.

          The majority decision effectively upholds warrantless searches because the government is just going to collect the data in a different court sanctioned way. The court has a long history of explaining exactly how law enforcement can defeat civil rights and they have done it here again.

          • Read it again. His point is that the "reasonable expectation of privacy" test which the majority upheld is being used to justify warrantless searches.

            Except, that's not what he said, at all.

            https://thinkprogress.org/gors... [thinkprogress.org]

            His point is that the "reasonable expectation of privacy" test which the majority upheld is being used to justify warrantless searches.

            And he felt so strongly about it that he voted to let warrantless searches continue.

            There's just no way to spin this one. Face it, Gorsuch is one of th

  • by crow ( 16139 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @10:29AM (#56828694) Homepage Journal

    The question of what requires a warrant needs to have a simple answer that is easy to apply.

    My solution: If an unaffiliated private individual would be expected to be able, both technically and legally, to conduct the same operation, then no warrant is required. In these cases, there is no expectation of privacy, as anyone could gather the same evidence.

    Once you go beyond that standard, there is an expectation of privacy, so the government should require some checks on the power to violate that privacy. The standard check is a court-issued warrant.

    • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
      Re "standard check is a court-issued warrant"
      US citizen? Get a warrant.
      Not a US citizen? Release the CIA, GCHQ, NSA...

      The part the US police and investigators have a problem with is going to court and telling at the US court system who they want to track.
      Why are the US state and federal task forces domestically so in need of having to go around the US court system?
      Do the state and federal law enforcement know something about what happens when a court order is approved to log and track?
      Is someo
      • by crow ( 16139 )

        Citizenship should make no difference. The Bill of RIghts says "Congress should make no law..." There's nothing limiting those rights to citizens or even to domestic activities. At a higher level, they are a statement of our values--our understanding of human rights.

        • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
          Re "Citizenship should make no difference."
          So the FBI can spy globally? They should get the full CIA spying budget?
  • by TomR teh Pirate ( 1554037 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @10:33AM (#56828714)
    A few years ago I had been drafted into jury duty for the 9th circuit in California. The case involved some sort of Medicare scam involving bogus sales of medical "devices" such as mobility scooters. During the jury selection process, prosecutors asked the pool whether any prospective jurors took issue with warrantless location tracking via cell phone towers. Apparently I was the only person who took issue with this, because the other 71 people in the room did not raise their hands. My public conversation with the court went something like this:

    Prosecutor: Why do you take exception to warrantless location tracking?
    Me: I believe the 3rd party doctrine is being abused in a manner that is unconstitutional and therefore illegal

    Judge: I will decide what is legal and illegal, and your job is to decide innocence or guilt
    Me: Richard Nixon once declared that "if the President does it, it's not illegal". We all know how that turned out. I will decide for myself whether the spirit of the Constitution is being violated

    Jurors were then adjourned while the judge, prosecutor, and defense attorney negotiated a jury pool. The pool was then welcomed back into the room, and I was thanked for my service, but then dismissed.

    It's nice to see the Supreme Court finally came to the same conclusion.
    • by NormalVisual ( 565491 ) on Friday June 22, 2018 @10:44AM (#56828768)

      I admire your restraint. I think I'd have probably responded to the judge's statement by replying that John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, disagreed with his statement.

      I'm a bit surprised that Roberts voted as he did, but it's a happy surprise.

    • As an afterthought to my own post, I wonder how many convictions might be thrown out because any evidence gathered subsequent to an unconstitutional tracking effort by law enforcement becomes inadmissable. Defense attorneys could have a field day with this.
    • by ebvwfbw ( 864834 )

      Congratulations. You were smart enough to get out of jury duty. I know so many that aren't that smart. You even pulled it off in the 9th circus.
      I pulled mine off in Baltimore.

  • https://www.theverge.com/2013/... [theverge.com]

    The NSA collects mobile location data under an executive order issued by the Reagan White House in 1981, reports The Hill. The news follows The Washington Post's report revealing how the agency tracks the locations of hundreds of millions of citizens around the world, supported by documents leaked by Edward Snowden.

    • The NSA collection is under the (tenuous) rationale that the phone conversations they record are of people outside the U.S., and thus persons who do not enjoy 4th Amendment protection. (The fly in the ointment is that the other half of the conversation is with someone in the U.S. who enjoys 4th Amendment protection.)
      • The Constitution of the USA doesn't grant rights, it recognizes the pre-existing rights people have. Therefore all people should have them, not just Americans.
  • This court is on the verge of tossing Chevron Deference and replace it with judicial fiat. That is a greater threat to operating in the modern world than this stupid crap.

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