Bill Gates: Cryptocurrency Is 'Rare Technology That Has Caused Deaths In a Fairly Direct Way' (cnbc.com) 161
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: During a recent "Ask Me Anything" session on Reddit, the Microsoft co-founder said that the main feature of cryptocurrencies is the anonymity they provide to buyers, and Gates thinks that can actually be harmful. "The government's ability to find money laundering and tax evasion and terrorist funding is a good thing," he wrote. "Right now, cryptocurrencies are used for buying fentanyl and other drugs, so it is a rare technology that has caused deaths in a fairly direct way." When a Reddit user pointed out that plain cash can also be used for illicit activities, Gates said that crypto stands out because it can be easier to use. "Yes -- anonymous cash is used for these kinds of things, but you have to be physically present to transfer it, which makes things like kidnapping payments more difficult," he wrote. Gates also warned that the wave of speculation surrounding cryptocurrencies is "super risky for those who go long."
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Don't forget his charitable foundation that has also caused many deaths by pushing American drug company agendas in the developing world.
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Or by investing in corporations which are killing the very people they claim to be saving [latimes.com].
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Bill believing crypto-currencies to be "anonymous" is just one more proof of him being detached from reality. Crypto-currencies are as transparent as could be - and people will be convicted for crimes they committed decades ago, due to the block-chains preserving the evidence forever.
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Bill believing crypto-currencies to be "anonymous" is just one more proof of him being detached from reality. Crypto-currencies are as transparent as could be - and people will be convicted for crimes they committed decades ago, due to the block-chains preserving the evidence forever.
They're not inherently anonymous, but they can be anonymous if you can keep your wallet and all transactions made separated from anything that personally identifies you. Easier said than done, naturally, but those using them for nefarious purposes are motivated to do so and seem to have reasonable success.
Connecting to the real world (Score:2)
They're not inherently anonymous, but they can be anonymous if you can keep your wallet and all transactions made separated from anything that personally identifies you. Easier said than done, naturally, but those using them for nefarious purposes are motivated to do so and seem to have reasonable success.
Yes, you could be anonymous if the only single usage you do of crypto currency would be shifting numerical values around between crypto-wallet.
Then yes, you could be even exchanging BTCs with known terrorists, child porno graphers, etc. and never be found out by the government.
But usually, the point of making transactions with other parties is that you want not only value shifting wallets, but also obtain something for it :
You'd like to buy arms from an illegal arm dealer, you'd like to receive drugs, etc.
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Re: Windows has killed more (Score:1)
You don't know what Monero is then do you?
Re:Windows has killed more (Score:5, Insightful)
. I can cite military Navy vessels being sank due to improperly applied Windows 2000 patches.
Bull Fucking Shit!. Name one.
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Name one.
The U.S.S. Montana. Windows decided to reboot my machine while I was in the middle of a battle in World of Warships.
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I have come fairly-directly close to topping myself with the frustration of installing Windows before now.
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Yeah, that's bollocks. You can't name any such vessels and if you could, Gates wasn't the one improperly applying the patches.
Furthermore, the NSA could equally have saved more lives than were lost by spying on Windows computers. You don't know because they don't tell you such things.
The deadly currency (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The deadly currency (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yes, and gold. And diamonds. Some stones are called "blood diamonds" for good reason.
At least oil and gold can be useful. Killing for diamonds? Fucking hell...
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Usefull diamonds (Score:2)
Diamonds can be useful too
...and the industry has evntually found a way to produce what it needs artificially at a much lower price than the crazy market.
it's just that most of their value (or perceived value, at least) is in their being a status symbol.
...and for some weird reasons, most of the people have been conditionned to see the status symbol only if that peculiar piece of diamond happens to have been dug out of the ground, despite having all the same atoms in the same position as what the industry grows in labs.
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Most of the industrial diamonds are artificial though. Much easier and cheaper than trying to find and dig them up.
The only people who care about getting their diamonds out of the ground instead of out of a factory are people looking for an expensive status symbol.
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They do have value, especially for industrial uses (very similar to gold, in that respect). Diamond powder abrasives are widely used.
According to Wikipedia (sourced from minerals.net) around 80% of mined diamonds are unsuitable for use as gemstones, and are used in industrial applications, where diamond is valued for its hardness and thermal conductivity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
There are also a lot of synthetic diamonds produced for these purposes, where appearance doesn't matter much as long as t
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So what you're saying is that diamonds actually do have intrinsic value. They are highly valued in industry.
That some marketers got the brilliant (ha!) idea to overhype them as gemstones is a completely different matter. The original statement was that diamonds weren't useful, unlike gold and oil, but diamonds do have tons of very good uses, just like gold.
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There's no such thing as intrinsic value. Value is contextual by nature.
Well (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows 10 is pretty convincing proof that anonymity is frowned upon.
hypocrite (Score:1, Funny)
So tax evasion is ok as long as he's the one doing it.
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I dare anyone to kidnap me for ransom, ha! They aren't getting much.
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great (Score:3, Funny)
President Orange Julius once remarked that Bill Gates should help find a way to 'shut off the internet' to stop bad guys. If he's saying something about cryptocurrencies, our dumbass in chief will think it's gospel.
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If we use the concept of: "something that could be used for bad is definitely used for bad", then we definitely should shut down Microsoft. Heck, the US military, the North Korea military, both likely use Microsoft software.
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I would trust that North Korea has at least patched it. The USA? Not so much.
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Doesn't NK use their own OS, something based on Linux?
'Red Star' it's called, i think.
Don't we all know this already? (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because Bill Gates repeats what's been said for years, it's more relevant?
Trying to finger crypto-currency as "more evil than cash" because it's "easier to use" seems to be cherry-picking scenarios.
How many times is cash used for illicit transactions because it's so straightforward? You can't do a thing with a crypto-currency unless you're tech savvy enough to set up some kind of wallet to receive the funds, and then you have to deal with a buyer who is equally savvy to pay you with them. And right now, you have long waits for most transactions to complete if you're using a well established e-currency like bitcoin. So that's another obstacle in some situations.
I mean, technically, he's not wrong. I'm sure people have died because of drugs that were bought and sold using cryptocoins. I just don't think the tech itself is ever anything but neutral. Again, the problem lies in the motivations of the sellers and buyers - not the payment method.
It's not that it's easier to use (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's what you think today... Tomorrow, it could be the case the NSA could connect 75% of bitcoin transactions to individuals thanks to some unknown hack.
The truth is that if you commit a big enough crime, with or without bitcoin, that someone will still be searching for you in 20 years... You will be found, probably in a very unexpected way.
The difference between cash and bitcoin is that bitcoin leaves a trace that just cannot be deleted. And you do not exactly know what this trace contains.
That was kinda my point (Score:2)
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"as a criminal your goal is to do crime big enough to live well but small enough that the authorities moves onto easier targets."
Or really big enough that you can bribe governments and still have spares for you.
It might be the case that Gates knows a thing or two about that.
Car analgoies. (Score:2)
it's that it's harder to trace. In theory if you can keep your name from being associated with your wallet it's impossible to trace. But it doesn't need to be impossible. A locked car is harder to steal, not impossible to steal.
A car with doors welded shut would be close to impossible to steal.
But eventually, for a car to be more useful than a giant paper weight, you need to be able to enter it and drive it.
so instead you settle for merely locking door, which makes stealing the car deginitely possible.
Using crypto-wallet exclusively for shifting numbers between them would be pretty much impossible to trace.
But eventually, for crypto-currencies to be more useful that a cryptographer play toay, you need to be able to order good del
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A car with doors welded shut would be close to impossible to steal.
You've clearly never stolen a vehicle. A broken window, or entry with a crowbar through the trunk/back seat would be simple enough.
Re:Don't we all know this already? (Score:5, Insightful)
Trying to finger crypto-currency as "more evil than cash" because it's "easier to use" seems to be cherry-picking scenarios.
It is, and worse, it's a factually incorrect claim.
How to buy drugs with crypto:
1) decide what crypto you want to spend, find a wallet program, and set it up (sometimes easy, sometimes ridiculously hard)
2) acquire said crypto somehow -buy it, mine it, steal it, etc.
3) figure out how to configure Tor, then how to find dark web sites, then find the dark web site run by a drug dealer you want to buy from
4a) if you're lucky, drug dealer already accepts the crypto you have
4b) if not, find an exchange, create another traceable account, wait for transactions to complete, etc
5) trade crypto for drugs (and I guess give out a physical address for shipping?)
6) pray that your drugs don't get stopped, the government isn't monitoring the blockchain, that you don't get busted on your way to pick them up, or that they even shipped in the first place (you didn't really trust a drug dealer, did you?)
How to buy drugs with cash:
1) get cash (many untraceable methods here, YMMV)
2) find drug dealer (try the 'poor' side of town)
3) buy drugs
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Yeah, because he is obviously talking about small time consumer buyers, not large scale distributors buying directly from drug manufacturing cartels.
Or do you really live in such a shithole neighborhood that you can go to the "poor side of town" and pick up 200 kilos of coke, 15 kilos of good weed, and maybe 60 kilos of H with a couple kilos of Fentanyl to cut it with?
Lots of folks won't risk a drug dealer (Score:2)
There are _lots_ of folks looking for pain meds because our healthcare system is so fucked up. Some of them need the meds to manage cronic pain, some of them need them because they have treatable conditions they can't afford to
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Yeah, you completely left out the money laundering process on the cash side. That's the area that law enforcement has gotten pretty good at tracking. Not so much with crypto, and that's the entire point.
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I'm sure people have died because of drugs that were bought and sold using cryptocoins.
Cryptocoins can also be used to buy Snu Snu!
Bill Gates: "Death! Death by Snu Snu!"
Evil corp E-coin... (Score:2)
1. that's a pretty high bar... cf Timothy 6:10. Actually, how does one manage to be more evil than the root of all evil?
2. oh that's bloody great, now the Church of Satan has to come out with yet another crypto-coin. Thanks.
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Just because Bill Gates repeats what's been said for years, it's more relevant?
Trying to finger crypto-currency as "more evil than cash" because it's "easier to use" seems to be cherry-picking scenarios.
How many times is cash used for illicit transactions because it's so straightforward? You can't do a thing with a crypto-currency unless you're tech savvy enough to set up some kind of wallet to receive the funds, and then you have to deal with a buyer who is equally savvy to pay you with them. And right now, you have long waits for most transactions to complete if you're using a well established e-currency like bitcoin. So that's another obstacle in some situations.
I mean, technically, he's not wrong. I'm sure people have died because of drugs that were bought and sold using cryptocoins. I just don't think the tech itself is ever anything but neutral. Again, the problem lies in the motivations of the sellers and buyers - not the payment method.
Cash requires a physical transfer to exchange the asset, that makes it really tough to use for criminal online transactions.
Cryptocurrency is different, if offers the ability to transfer of value to another party with complete anonymity (if you conceal your wallet ownership) and trust (ie, I don't have to worry that the bitcoin you sent me will be reversed by the credit card company).
That makes it uniquely suitable for crime, drug transactions, hits, extortion, money laundering, etc.
Is Gates really an expert in anything anymore? (Score:2)
He was obviously a "good" businessman (as in made a lot of money and dealt with a lot of competitors) and he had some technical chops early on, but what makes Gates an expert on much *now*?
I'm not even sure he has more than just a slightly better-informed opinion on many things anymore.
Re:Don't we all know this already? (Score:5, Insightful)
Fair is fair, take the blame on yourself, BillG.
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I think you are getting direct and indirect confused.
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How many times is cash used for illicit transactions .... some kind of wallet to receive the funds
Making sense isn't necessary because the establishment media will not question Gates, and Reddit doesn't count. This is just the blather that comes out of his mouth as he thinks up rationalizations for the imposition of his will. The establishment mentality. The thought that something, somewhere might happen beyond scrutiny is intolerable so whatever BS must be promulgated to stop it is the gospel of the day.
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Of course, Gates' main pad is in Washington state, where two former governors, Gary Locke and Christine Gregoire, got a whole bunch of people killed, raped, assaulted, robbed, etc., etc., when they signed an Interstate Compact bringing 3 out 4 ex-convicts to the Puget Sound region, where may again offended, and that's an indisputable fact, and last I read, there were ov
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He thinks crypto currencies have anonymity. I'm surprised he made this comment being so ignorant in the subject..
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I'm no expert on the topic, but didn't we just have an article yesterday where Woz got scammed out of $70k worth? How is that not anonymous for the scammer?
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his credit card was stolen, after that all bets are off. the blockchain holds the records of who has the bitcoins, so it's possible to identify the person who received the coins.
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"more evil than cash"
He didn't say that though. That phrase does not appear in any of his posts, nor anything like it.
He was just saying that it's unusual for technology to lead directly to deaths, by which I think he meant computer technology because obviously military tech is pretty common.
Gates has done a lot wrong in his lifetime, but that doesn't excuse attributing things to him that he didn't say or believe. Like the classic 640k meme.
Liar or Ignorant (Score:1)
Cash can be laundered through many paradises. Did he ever heard of Panama ? Malta ? Delaware ? (Non exhaustive list) ...) everything done for him.
Many recent documentaries showed how money can be transferred through these countries and their rotten lawers companies without living town. I guess that for people like him, it's easy to forget because he gates (ooops, sorry for this one
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The premise that being Bitcoin rich doesn't require laundering a lot of cash is pretty weak too.
Bitcoin gives you a legitimate transaction to pay taxes on (selling it), but if you raise flags, they'll track back your transactions and see them tumbled af and investigate, or see them outright shady.
Of you want to spend the cash, it needs to be laundered.
502 Bad Gateway nginx/1.13.9 (Score:1)
Russian interference.
People tend to forget... (Score:2)
Lest anyone forgets $1B went missing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Oh and you wanna talk about baby killers? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
How about that opoid crisis? 20 million painkillers to a town of 3,000. ALL CASH. https://www.npr.org/sections/t... [npr.org]
Also...the anonymity isn't crypto's main feature. Just look at the most recent $10 Billion lawsuit. It turns out all those rich list addresses were owned by exchanges and things like that. Cash is far more anonymous than crypto. Why else would drug de
Direct? (Score:1)
Is this some new definition for "direct"?
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Yeah, it means "indirect". It's like "literal" meaning "figurative". At this rate, words will have no meaning at all sometime between January 2025 and September 2031.
Every form of wealth does it (Score:1)
Money and every single other form of wealth have produced massive deaths slavery and innocent's deaths, Bitcoin is that exposes wealth and money as the fraud it is, anyone can make it's own currency based in anything and with enough commercial connections can make it usable, we can see currency do not have to be backed by real resources and even debt can be traded as a regular commodity.
so has fiat currency (Score:3, Funny)
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Just like Windows (Score:1)
Absolutely absurd (Score:1)
Does Bill sponsor Slashdot? (Score:4, Informative)
Does Bill sponsor Slashdot for citing him so often?
He is correct, but oil and coal more lethal (Score:2)
billg is right about this, but most of the harm is only to Americans and Canadians who have shortened their lifespans due to said pharmaceuticals, and to a lesser extent those who died as the result of oil and coal exploration, extraction, processing, and shipping to provide the electricity to generate them.
On a global scale, these "epidemics" are mostly reduced.
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No, he's entirely wrong, because the normal cash used for such things make the cryptocurrency used a rounding error. the problems existed long before cryptocurrency and will continue with or without it.
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No, he's entirely wrong, because the normal cash used for such things make the cryptocurrency used a rounding error. the problems existed long before cryptocurrency and will continue with or without it.
You say that as if, it's not a matter of time for all "normal" transactions to be done via crypto so that the money doesn't need to be laundered. No need to meet in some dark alley with assault rifles, and no risk of tracking the funds. I'm not a crypto guru, so please tell me why that's not accurate?
Stuid lie (Score:5, Insightful)
When you buy a gun and kill someone, no one says "OH MY GOD, US DOLLARS KILLED HIM."
That is not "Direct" harm. That is not even secondary harm. That is very, very, very indirect harm. Tertiary at best.
The shooter and the gun 'directly' caused the harm. The secondary cause might be the drug sales or whatever made you mad enough to kill him.
The stuff you used to buy the weapon? That's at best tertiary. Not a direct cause.
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When I first got DR DOS, it was on a hand-labeled floppy. Someone had written it as 'Dr. DOS.' It took a long time before I met someone who asked why I was pronouncing it as 'Doctor Dos.'
If Crypto currencies make it effortless (Score:2)
Until (Score:1)
rare? (Score:5, Insightful)
it is a rare technology that has caused deaths in a fairly direct way.
Bill, this is gunpowder. Gunpowder, Bill.
New money (Score:2)
Pot calling the kettle black (Score:2)
And how many deaths has Windows called?
How many BSODs causing ACTUAL DEATHS?!?
I think Bill Gates is demented. (Score:1)
Or, he's just bashing a currency medium that the elite are having difficulty wrapping their tentacles around.
It's complicated (Score:1)
Arrogant comment (Score:5, Insightful)
I didn't expect anything else: the guy who most benefits from the current finantial system bashing a trending, actually revolutionary. It is quite shameful to see him resort to such a low blow. It's like saying: "hey, 20 people died making this humongous undersea tunnel", without acknowledging the bridge prevents 200 deaths a year out of whatever the fuck they did to cross the straight before.
Seriously, this guy has been the top richest dude, in the world, for 18 out of the last 23 years. He has - wait scratch that -
him and his next 10 generations have absolutely no say in the matter of "what is fairer than what we have now?". Fairness is seriously not something at play here.
I assume he and everybody else know Microsoft has surely caused deaths in a fairly direct way as much as any cryptocurrency, and just like crypto, none of them were part of the plan. Obviously not as direct as, say Smith and Wesson, Heckler and Koch, Lockheed Martin or any so-called "defense"-related company, but even those have their own sorry excuses for liability.
But screw "fairly" - you know what causes human death in a very fucking objectively direct way? Other humans. And maybe old age and disease and natural disaster. Now go get an actually decent argument to bash crypto, you know, like common people have to do when they want to make a point instead of using that odd "I am so popular I can say anything" falacy.
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TYPO: "revolutionary... *one", obviously
Bill Gates Quote (Score:3)
All technologies have killed (Score:2)
Pretty much every technology killed some people in some way. Electricity caused many deaths, and the wheel, and fire. Even medicine kills on a regular basis.
A company making helicopters even use this argument in their communication. They proudly say that helicopters saved more lives than they took. They don't deny that helicopters kill, they just say that they make up for it by saving others during search-and-rescue missions.
The argument works in reverse. One could argue that the atomic bomb saved lives by
640k moment. (Score:1)
Ya.. I'm old.
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Easily traceable (Score:2)
Technology That Has Caused Deaths In a Fairly Dire (Score:2)
I rode my motorcycle to lunch today. Now *there* is a technology that has caused a lot of deaths in a fairly direct way.
Ban motorcycles now!!!1!!!!!1!!3!!! Who will think of the childrens?!?!?!555!!??!
Death by desperation! (Score:2)
As if M$ hasn't caused deaths. Almost anything causes deaths. Death by sheer desperation is one of the cruelest ways to go.
Oh non existing deity! Why do we still have to reboot Windows 10 almost daily to have patches installed? Why so many meaningless updates on Skype since M$ took over? And always when I actually want to use the bloody thing!
energy (Score:2)
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Yes. Every currency has blood on it. How many have been murdered for the cash in their wallets? Time to ban money entirely.