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Crime United States

Two More 'SWAT' Calls in California -- One Involving a 12-Year-Old Gamer (ktla.com) 178

In January an online gamer in California was arrested after at leat 20 fake emergency calls to police, one leading to a fatal shooting in Kansas. But this week in California there's been at least two more fake calls:
  • A 12-year-old gamer heard a knock at his door Sunday -- which turned out to be "teams of Los Angeles police officers and other rescue personnel who believed two people had just hung themselves." The Los Angeles Police Department "said there's no way to initially discern swatting calls from actually emergencies, so they handle every scenario as if someone's life is in danger," according to the Los Angeles Times. The seventh-grader described it as "the most terrifying thing in my life."
  • 36-year-old David Pearce has been arrested for falsely reporting an emergency at a Beverly Hills hotel involving "men with guns" holding him hostage. A local police captain later said that the people in the room had not made the call and in fact might have been asleep through much of the emergency. The Los Angeles Times reports that there's roughly 400 'SWATting' cases each year, according to FBI estimates, adding that "Some experts have said police agencies need to take the phenomenon more seriously and provide formal training to dispatchers and others to better recognize hoax callers."

Meanwhile, in the wake of a fatal shooting in Wichita, Kansas lawmakers have passed a new bipartisan bill increasing the penalties for SWAT calls. If a fake call results in a fatality -- and the caller intentionally masks their identity -- it's the equivalent of second-degree murder. "The caller must be held accountable," one lawmaker told the Topeka Capital-Journal.


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Two More 'SWAT' Calls in California -- One Involving a 12-Year-Old Gamer

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  • by Entrope ( 68843 ) on Saturday February 24, 2018 @12:11PM (#56181411) Homepage

    If there is really no way for a 911 dispatcher to tell that a call is arriving from somewhere outside the local area through a commercial VoIP service, that is a shameful state of affairs that needs to be addressed. Probably all SWATing hoaxes involve that kind of proxy to reach the target dispatch, and probably vanishingly few legitimate emergency calls use those services.

    If a dispatcher sees a VoIP call that indicates a high risk of violence or strongly points to heavily armed response, that should be good grounds to watch out for a hoax.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Last thing I'd want while talking to a 911 dispatcher is for them to be allowed to have doubt in my story.

      • Last thing I'd want while talking to a 911 dispatcher is for them to be allowed to have doubt in my story.

        Last thing I'd want is a bunch of people wrongfully shot dead because doubt is too scary for some other people who might have a story that "requires" a paramilitary strike.

        • by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Saturday February 24, 2018 @01:11PM (#56181737)

          Last thing I'd want while talking to a 911 dispatcher is for them to be allowed to have doubt in my story.

          Last thing I'd want is a bunch of people wrongfully shot dead because doubt is too scary for some other people who might have a story that "requires" a paramilitary strike.

          That takes proper training to assess a threat, and has little to do with the problem of fake calls. You either have trigger-happy idiots behind an armed response, or you do not.

          This is a two-fold problem. Make no mistake that change needs to happen on BOTH sides.

          • That takes proper training to assess a threat, and has little to do with the problem of fake calls. You either have trigger-happy idiots behind an armed response, or you do not.

            This is a two-fold problem. Make no mistake that change needs to happen on BOTH sides.

            The root of the problem is there are far, far too many laws and regulations, many related to the "War On (some) Drugs". Having so many laws and regulations means you need a large number of jackboots to enforce them. Proper training is too expensive and time consuming for maintaining such a large standing force, so standards and training are minimal. It also means that internal discipline and accountability for mistakes take a back seat to maintaining sufficient numbers of boots on the street.

            Strat

            • by Uberbah ( 647458 )

              The root of the problem is there are far, far too many laws and regulations, many related to the "War On (some) Drugs". Having so many laws and regulations means you need a large number of jackboots to enforce them.

              Hmm, sounds a little Randian. SWAT teams aren't generally used for possible zoning or pollution violations, if that's what you were going for.

      • If you are calling from the local area, the cops should be aware of that. If you are intentionally trying to be anonymous then cops should also be aware of that. Not all anonymous tips are bad but they should be approached with caution. Even something as simple as letting the SWAT team know that the tip might not be good should help them case the place properly before busting down a door.

    • by Kohath ( 38547 ) on Saturday February 24, 2018 @12:24PM (#56181499)

      ...that should be good grounds to watch out for a hoax.

      The fact that anything could be a hoax is good grounds to watch out for a hoax.

      But we don't need "good grounds" for the police to be careful when deciding to shoot at people.

      • by Entrope ( 68843 )

        Sure, any call to the police could be a hoax. The issue is that this kind of hoax is both dangerous and somewhat frequent, so it is worth considering how to identify such hoaxes quickly.

        • and somewhat frequent

          Really? Two examples in two months in a population of almost 40 million people is "somewhat frequent"???

          Assuming that the two examples mentioned were representative, that would imply that your chance of being the victim of a swatting in your lifetime are on the order of 0.001%. Hardly "somewhat frequent"....

    • by b0s0z0ku ( 752509 ) on Saturday February 24, 2018 @12:26PM (#56181507)
      The calls are often to a NON-EMERGENCY number, since 911 would route it to the SWAT'ter's local 911 service center. Calling a non-emergency number about a life-and-death issue should be a big clue. Apparently, that's what happened in the SWAT'ting that caused a death recently.
      • by Entrope ( 68843 )

        If someone makes an emergency report to a non-emergency number, that would be another good indicator.

        My understanding was that SWAT hoaxers typically use (somewhat shady) VoIP services because VoIP effectively hides both their identity and their actual location, so that they could call 911 and make it appear as if they were really at the location they want to be SWATted.

      • The calls are often to a NON-EMERGENCY number

        [Citation Required] The problem is that there are many services that don't route your call source, and even more where that call source has nothing to do with your current location. Welcome to the world of VoIP.

      • In my area non-emergency numbers are forwarded to 911 if you call after normal business hours. Want to call in a noise complaint, you're going to end up talking to a 911 operator.

    • Plenty of services use VoIP. If you have "digital telephone" with your cable or dsl provider, you have VoIP. If you have true 4G/5G (Europe and Japan only, not the US 2.5G that is sold as 4G) your calls are probably packet based.

      Many people use Vonage or a number of other VoIP providers, anytime you need a little box to talk to your POTS or if your phone line goes dead during a power outage, you have VoIP.

      The nice thing about VoIP is that you don't need to have a physical line, any SIP phone can talk to any

      • by Entrope ( 68843 )

        That is the kind of thing I was trying to address with my statement about calls from "outside the local area through a commercial VoIP service". Mobile phone companies are probably sufficiently careful with e911 to be trusted. So are incumbent and competitive local carriers.

        How does a 911 call work with SIP? Exactly which services relay from SIP to the emergency dispatch service? That's the point where I think there needs to be sufficient authentication of the originator, and where their location should

    • by DogDude ( 805747 )
      Ma Bell has allowed phone number spoofing for decades. They make money on all of those telemarketers, you know.
      • by PPH ( 736903 )

        They make money on all of those telemarketers, you know.

        Yeah. But how? They obviously can track and bill all these telemarketing calls. Or they wouldn't let them through. But it seems that they have given law enforcement the second-tier interface to their tracking/billing system.

        This could easily be solved with a few subpoenas and a few telco execs spending some time in prison for contempt of court and lying to law enforcement officials (essentially what an intentionally broken interface is doing).

        • by arth1 ( 260657 )

          Yeah. But how? They obviously can track and bill all these telemarketing calls. Or they wouldn't let them through.

          That's not how it works. The connecting phone company pays the receiver's phone company a small termination fee. The caller pays the connecting phone company, and how much is outside the receiver's phone company's control or knowledge.

          • by PPH ( 736903 )

            So how does my phone company know to bill me $5.99 per minute for calling that "Hot and Sweaty Sex" 1-900 number? And how does the sex service know who to go after if the money isn't paid? I assume that phone companies have some method of blocking or flagging VoIP number spoofing from entering their system so as not to be on the hook for an hour of heavy breathing owed to the phone sex service.

            In the case of a VoIP call to 9-1-1, I know I had to register my IP address with my home location to get emergen

        • Lying to law enforcement is not illegal, yet. Not even in your fucked up legal system.

    • If there is really no way for a 911 dispatcher to tell that a call is arriving from somewhere outside the local area through a commercial VoIP service, that is a shameful state of affairs that needs to be addressed. Probably all SWATing hoaxes involve that kind of proxy to reach the target dispatch, and probably vanishingly few legitimate emergency calls use those services.

      If a dispatcher sees a VoIP call that indicates a high risk of violence or strongly points to heavily armed response, that should be good grounds to watch out for a hoax.

      The problem with your "easy" fix is when you're wrong, and someone dies as a result.

      With the popularity of cloud-based phone services, WiFi calling, and the number of people who have no "home" phone, it's hard to use VoIP as a delineation point.

      • by Entrope ( 68843 )

        Guess what: People could die in response to any 911 call. The point is to reduce how often people unjustly or preventably die.

        I am not proposing that 911 automatically treat any VoIP call as a hoax, or that they not respond if a VoIP call is placed using a shady service that has been known to falsify caller locations. I am only pointing out that many (most?) SWATing incidents actually do have a fact pattern that sets them apart, even a priori, from legitimate calls; that emergency dispatchers should have

        • > I am only pointing out that many (most?) SWATing incidents actually do
          > have a fact pattern that sets them apart, even a priori, from legitimate
          > calls; that emergency dispatchers should have the tools to detect that
          > fact pattern; and that responders could use the presence of that fact
          > pattern to dial back their response rather than go in with guns blazing.

          This will merely result in something similar to the spamblocking wars. As filters discovered spam patterns versus "real mail" patterns

      • and the number of people who have no "home" phone

        This. Haven't had a "home phone" for at least a decade. Ditto siblings. I don't think my parents do either, but I could be mistaken there - Dad is old-fashioned....

    • 1) Call tracing and source profiling -- perfect for a simple algorithm or AI to do, just as we do for email servers, black lists etc. Obviously, no black list but a bad source impacts confidence levels.

      2) Spam-like filtering. Threat levels or confidence ranking on the credibility of the call. This can be pure statistics for the crime and the area involved, but time of day, time of year, observer type/location, incident type/location are things best done by machines. Going further one could analyze stress in

      • by Entrope ( 68843 )

        I think your #2 is too hard to practically solve. The problem is underdetermined: There are too many possible variables and too few training cases. This means that your #3 will give unreliable numbers.

        That is why I only suggested the equivalent of your #1, which may depend on parts of #4: If VoIP is appropriately standardized, #1 becomes relatively simple and very robust, leading to reliable information for people to factor into their judgment about the situation at hand. It is better to provide simple,

        • not a problem: 1st off, the degree of accuracy would be a factor in any half done system. Part #1 would get more influence!

          Just like a spam filtering system today, it's all statistics... if you just keep it simple, you have RULES like spam assassin does which have huge factors of influence then you have a lesser impact from the Bayes classifier. I'm not saying to make the Bayes classifier more important or even equal to other factors. (which works with tiny training sets unlike what you're thinking as t

      • Your plan will work fine right up until someone is killed and a lawyer files a suit alleging that had the confidence rating not been so low, it would have been taken more seriously and the death prevented, and then the family gets on TV to vilify the police not taking calls seriously.
        • People SUE for every stupid thing imaginable; it is not a reason to avoid doing something. The cops ultimately decide and while it does give the cops something to use an excuse, the city gets sued regardless! Rarely does it ever come down to just the cop who gets sued for money.

          It's just a ball park which WILL reduce how many innocents are harmed. Right now you have an INFORMAL process at best. "Black man seen climbing into window" already has a % bias being applied which is NOT in writing. Lawsuits ha

      • The simple number is a good idea, just give a guideline, have police respond anyway. Still it's ridiculous that police would go into any dangerous situation with their guard down because of these clowns. There's a story about a boy who cried wolf, it encodes the Bayesian nature of human behavior. If you allow endless fake bombs into secure areass as a "joke" without punishments, it becomes easy in time to bring real ones in.

    • > If there is really no way for a 911 dispatcher to tell that a call is arriving from somewhere outside the local area through a commercial VoIP service, that is a shameful state of affairs that needs to be addressed. Probably all SWATing hoaxes involve that kind of proxy

      Well that is indeed how IP works. You can't reliably distinguish the location if the person has made an effort to mislead. The most popular geoip service, Max mind, claims 90 percent accuracy when nobody is trying to be tricky. That's

      • by Entrope ( 68843 )

        Right. Almost no legitimate emergency call will involve people "trying to be tricky". If a VoIP call comes in to an emergency dispatcher with any "someone is trying to be tricky" indicator, that is a strong hint that it's a hoax. Identifying the call as a likely hoax should reduce the risk of the hoax getting anyone hurt.

        After we make sure no one is hurt by the emergency response, the question becomes tracking down the hoaxer. Maybe the company or service that connected the VoIP call to the emergency di

        • > If a VoIP call comes in to an emergency dispatcher with any "someone is trying to be tricky" indicator, that is a strong hint that it's a hoax

          Such indicators are not reliable, and not always present, but there ARE indicators that could be used to *sometimes* suggest that something suspicious *might* be happening. For example, I have a list of virtually every open proxy used by hackers. Not all suspicious traffic comes through an open proxy, and not all traffic from open proxies is illegitimate, but i

      • > The most popular geoip service, Max mind, claims 90 percent accuracy when
        > nobody is trying to be tricky. That's their marketing claim for their own service;
        > the real number is probably closer to 80 percent when no proxies are involved.

        You mean THIS MaxMind http://www.bbc.com/news/techno... [bbc.com] that decided to geo-locate "unknown" US IP addresses somewhere near the geographical centre of the USA? Unfortunately for the inhabitants of a farm located at those co-ordinates, that meant a constant stream

    • In Germany basically all new phone lines are VoiP.

      • by Entrope ( 68843 )

        In Germany are basically all new phone lines using weird providers that allow their customers to lie about their address, and then the provider passes that false address for emergency calls?

        If so, then my proposed hoax detection might not work well in Germany, but I suspect that Germans are not so foolish as to allow companies with significant market share to behave like that.

        • VoiP does not imply lying about your address.
          Actually you can pinpoint one down to his floor in a flat ...

          And in most european countries, ordinary emergency calls have no address atached anyway, people calling an emergency service are supposed to know where thay are.

    • VOIP is largely unregulated. It needs to be regulated. The current federal government won't do that. They're too busy stuffing their pockets with "campaign donations" from AT&T, Time-Warner, and Comcast.
    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      If there is really no way for a 911 dispatcher to tell that a call is arriving from somewhere outside the local area through a commercial VoIP service, that is a shameful state of affairs that needs to be addressed. Probably all SWATing hoaxes involve that kind of proxy to reach the target dispatch, and probably vanishingly few legitimate emergency calls use those services.

      If a dispatcher sees a VoIP call that indicates a high risk of violence or strongly points to heavily armed response, that should be goo

  • Good job (Score:5, Funny)

    by Kohath ( 38547 ) on Saturday February 24, 2018 @12:12PM (#56181417)

    Congrats to the LA police for not killing any innocent people when responding to those incidents. Keep it up.

    • by Khyber ( 864651 )

      "Congrats to the LA police for not killing any innocent people when responding to those incidents."

      As if the LA police could actually hit someone. Remember Christopher Dorner? Remember that blue truck they shot up with two women inside, thinking he was in that truck? 40 something rounds and ZERO fatalities?

      The LA police are so shitty with their guns, that they had to beat Rodney King point blank - they know they're too fucking incompetent to even hit the broadside of a barn with a firearm.

  • The world is going to hell in a handbasket and I'm unsure what to put in my carryon bag.
           

    • The world is going to hell in a handbasket and I'm unsure what to put in my carryon bag.

      There's an extra fee for carry-on luggage.

  • Attempted murder (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Anything that elicits an armed SWAT response should be considered an attempt to kill the SWATee.
    There is no other reason you'd send an armed response team into a situation that split second decisions mean more people may die.

    Once swaters start publicly getting 20+ years for single swat attempts it'll put off a fuckton of others.

    • Yep, no 2nd degree stuff, this is the same as murder for hire (on the cheap). Should have the same penalties. There is malice aforethought, obviously. Just because you tried to hire a low competence hitman on the cheap shouldn't be extenuating.
  • In the UK we have an offence of wasting Police time, it is minor offence, dealt with by fixed penalty fine. Then our cops down storm houses with guns. What choice are American's going to make?

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-g... [cps.gov.uk]

    • by jabuzz ( 182671 )

      No in England and Wales you have a system. Here in Scotland we have a completely different legal system and any references to the Crown Prosecution Service are an immediate flag to that fact. There is no such thing as a UK legal system.

  • Take away qualified immunity and watch the problem go away.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 24, 2018 @01:22PM (#56181787)

    You should NOT rely on data from UNCONFIRMED and potentially unreliable sources to initiate violence against another human being. This is a training issue- not an issue with someone placing a fake 911 call. What this does is it misplaces blame and diverts responsibility for shooting someone to that other than the shooter. The person who placed the fake call should be held responsible for abusing resources- not a murder committed by a poorly trained or over-reactive officer. But no, we can't ever hold the people with guns responsible for there own poor decisions, officers in blue can't ever make mistakes. They're our "heroes". The sad fact is government kidnaps and murders more people every year than all the serial murders and terrorists combined. The problem isn't prank calls or terrorism. It's poor training and an excessive number of police and military personal.

    • It isn't just a waste of resources, it's deliberatey endangering others. No matter how well trained the officers are, there's the possibility of someone getting shot. The officers may think they're in danger, and all it takes is one officer making the wrong decision to create a tragedy. Obviously, the officer concerned should be held responsible, but if the swatter hadn't created the situation to allow the officer to kill someone with a wrong decision there wouldn't have been a death.

  • A 12-year-old gamer heard a knock at his door Sunday -- which turned out to be "teams of Los Angeles police officers and other rescue personnel who believed two people had just hung themselves." The Los Angeles Police Department "said there's no way to initially discern swatting calls from actually emergencies, so they handle every scenario as if someone's life is in danger,"

    And they didn't suspect something was amiss when someone answered the door?

    • And they didn't suspect something was amiss when someone answered the door?
      If I have a hang over, I don't open doors ... oh, that was not what you meant?

  • We need to update our phone systems to allow a traceroute like command, rather than just looking at the claimed sender phone number.

    Knowing that a call that supposedly came from Chicago first entered the phone system in Alabama would be very helpful.

  • Police need to take every call seriously and at least do a welfare check; that isn't going to change. We weed to be able to easily trace all calls back to their origin. I get calls from scammers using spoofed caller id all the time. How do I know they are spoofing the caller id? Because the first 6 digits of their number is the same as my own number -- and I don't know anybody with a number similar to mine. Also seems like a stupid strategy to convince you that one of your neighbors is calling, since my cel
  • "Some experts have said police agencies need to take the phenomenon more seriously and provide formal training to dispatchers and others to better recognize hoax callers."

    I was a 911 dispatcher for 8 years and I can tell you this line is 100% B.S. You can NEVER treat a call like a hoax due to liability issues. I don't see the "experts" risking jail time for blowing off a call that was real. One of the first things you are taught is that lives are depending on how fast you can get the appropriate help to them in an emergency situation, and if you had a duty to react and fail to do so you can face CRIMINAL charges.

    • by Uberbah ( 647458 )

      I was a 911 dispatcher for 8 years

      Then you know false or misleading calls happen all the time.

      You can NEVER treat a call like a hoax due to liability issues. I

      It doesn't have to mean blowing off calls like when Michael B Jordan [wordpress.com] tries to order a pizza. I can mean noticing that the house you're going to doesn't match the description being given over the phone so the first person who walks out the door isn't shot in two seconds.

  • by Karmashock ( 2415832 ) on Saturday February 24, 2018 @05:06PM (#56182523)

    Back in the day they wouldn't just kick the door down and go in with tactical teams every time they got a call. Obviously use SWAT when you need "Special Weapons And Tactics"... but if what you actually need to do is send some officers over to knock on a door.. .maybe do that instead.

  • "teams of Los Angeles police officers and other rescue personnel who believed two people had just hung themselves."

    I understand that this one turned out to be just a pair of Hollywood plastic surgeons practicing on each other.

  • by k6mfw ( 1182893 ) on Saturday February 24, 2018 @07:10PM (#56182921)
    I haven't followed much of these stories, I see lots of media and commentaries but no personal knowledge of situations calling for a SWAT team. It seems to me these events begin with one phone call from a single person that leads police to response like the military, similar to something looks funny so call in a airstrike with a few 2000lb bombs. If approaching this like the military, have a recon team to assess the situation before calling in the big stuff that leads to huge collateral damage. Or treat it like a crime instead of a war.
  • by Reverend Green ( 4973045 ) on Sunday February 25, 2018 @12:27AM (#56183701)

    America does not need SWAT teams. We don't need an occupying army with tanks and machine guns rampaging through our city streets.

    Disband all SWAT team is now! Return to civilian policing!

    For that once-a-year situation that's too much for normal cops to handle, that's why we have a National Guard. In the other 99.999% of the situations there is no need for a paramilitary response.

    • The tragedy in Wichita was because an officer screwed up and shot. I've read that the officer wasn't a part of the SWAT team, so, as far as the incident went, the SWAT team did exactly what they should have.

      The National Guard is often called "weekend warriors", because they train during weekends and another two weeks a year. When you need the National Guard right now, odds are everybody's off at their jobs or their homes or bars or something. It takes time to call the Guard up.

      Once the National Guar

      • Remember the old Republic, back when America was still a free country? Somehow that worked just fine without paramilitary police death squads lurking in every city. Really I don't give a shit if a few criminals get away, if that's the price for living in a free society.

        • Yeah, back when the crime rate was higher? There are rare situations that come up in which a specially trained police unit is extremely useful. I'm not claimed that they're necessarily trained or equipped properly, or used appropriately, but a SWAT team is useful.

          Given equivalent situations, are a SWAT team more likely to kill an innocent than a regular police officer? In the Wichita shooting, someone here claimed (I didn't follow it up and check it myself) that the officer who shot the fatal bullet w

  • Where are the parents? 12 year olds should not be streaming live on the internet.

"Tell the truth and run." -- Yugoslav proverb

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