People Keep Finding Hidden Cameras in Their Airbnbs (buzzfeed.com) 167
"Airbnb has a scary problem on their hands: People keep finding hidden cameras in their rental homes," reports the New York Post. "Another host was busted last month trying to film guests without their knowledge -- marking the second time since October that the company has had to publicly deal with this sort of incident." BuzzFeed reports:
In October, an Indiana couple visiting Florida discovered a hidden camera disguised as a smoke detector in their Airbnb's master bedroom. Earlier that same year Airbnb was forced to investigate and suspend a Montreal listing after one of the renters discovered a camera in the bedroom of the property... Hidden cameras aren't just an issue for Airbnb -- it's been a hot-button topic in hospitality for years. There are hundreds of stories about hotels using unlawful surveillance. [For example, this one.]
Airbnb recommends its customers read the reviews of the host of any rental property they might be interested in, and also offers an on-platform messaging tool that allows communication between host and guests... "Cameras are never allowed in bathrooms or bedrooms; any other cameras must be properly disclosed to guests ahead of time," Airbnb spokesperson Jeff Henry told BuzzFeed News.
This time the couple discovered hidden cameras that were disguised as a motion detectors. Airbnb says they've permanently banned the offending host -- and offered his guests a refund -- adding that this type of incident was "incredibly rare."
Airbnb recommends its customers read the reviews of the host of any rental property they might be interested in, and also offers an on-platform messaging tool that allows communication between host and guests... "Cameras are never allowed in bathrooms or bedrooms; any other cameras must be properly disclosed to guests ahead of time," Airbnb spokesperson Jeff Henry told BuzzFeed News.
This time the couple discovered hidden cameras that were disguised as a motion detectors. Airbnb says they've permanently banned the offending host -- and offered his guests a refund -- adding that this type of incident was "incredibly rare."
Isn't Voyeurism a CRIME? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Isn't Voyeurism a CRIME? (Score:5, Funny)
I am so OUTRAGED that I am going to SELECTIVELY capitalize WORDS to make my POINT.
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I'm more *fond* of asterisk emphasis than of CAPITALIZATION.
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If you're going through life believing that writing properly is only for english class, I pity you.
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If you think actually using a language isn't proper I pity YOU.
IOW Fuck off.
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Re: Isn't Voyeurism a CRIME? (Score:2)
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One shouldn't blame the AC for contributing precisely nothing to the conversation. It is their natural manner.
(I realise the irony in my own empty snark, here. Ah well.)
Re: Isn't Voyeurism a CRIME? (Score:2)
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Re:Isn't Voyeurism a CRIME? (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. Banning the host and refunding some money isn't even close to good enough here. In almost any civilised country, this should be a police matter, and someone should probably be going to jail and getting added to the sex offenders register or local equivalent.
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Banning the host and refunding some money isn't even close to good enough here
It's good enough for AirBNB. The guests can go to the police themselves.
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Maybe you're right, legally speaking, but I'd like to hear a judge say that before I assume it. Given the way Airbnb works, it wouldn't surprise me if an argument based on having an implied duty of care could be made either. In any case, presumably the guest can report the matter to the police, and the police could/should then take action against the host.
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Google employee spotted.
"how stupid and flawed that argument is." (Score:1)
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someone should probably be going to jail and getting added to the sex offenders register or local equivalent.
It was in the US. Neither police nor government want to set a precedent of jailing someone for illegal surveillance.
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Of course this is a crime
Really? Can you cite the law?
In America, surreptitious audio recordings are generally illegal, but video recordings and photography usually are not. It would be illegal to use the photos for extortion or blackmail. It might be illegal to distribute them without the consent of the subject, and would almost certainly be illegal to do so for commercial gain.
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So are you saying that in America it's not a crime to put a hidden camera inside, for example, a women's public shower room as long as it's only you who masturbate with the recording? Cool!
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So are you saying that in America it's not a crime to put a hidden camera inside, for example, a women's public shower room as long as it's only you who masturbate with the recording? Cool!
It is illegal in some jurisdictions. But I am not aware of any federal law.
Surveillance of us here at Slashdot...... (Score:1)
I find it hypocritical that Slashdot would publish a submission about surveillance in the hospitality industry being wrong, when this is a web site that uses all sorts of online trackers and "analytics" providers to surreptitiously monitor us!
My blockers show something called "RPX Now", and something called "Stack Sonar", and something called "Cross Pixel Media", and something called "Janrain", and something called "AlmondNet", and something called "Taboola", and something called "Pro Market", and something
Re:Surveillance of us here at Slashdot...... (Score:4, Insightful)
Is /. using your webcam to spy on you? No? Then what have your rant to do with this? Nothing? Exactly.
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Re: Isn't Voyeurism a CRIME? (Score:1)
Awesome. Next time I am in an AirBnb and the host seems like an ass, I can plant a hidden camera and turn them in. They will be arrested and jailed, because no one will believe that it wasnâ(TM)t their camera.
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This WILL NOT stop until you do!
Are you implying that it will stop if you do? If you think that I have a bridge to sell you.
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> > keep finding hidden cameras
>Airwithout their consent
Precisely. That's why the cameras have to be OVERT. Post signs that cameras are present.
Cameras are security mechanisms and justified.
>videotaping someone nude
Set up a special room for that (but there also has to be other rooms that guarantee privacy). Bring it on.
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translation: you're a Trump voter.
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(1) If you're a coward, don't rent the house out.
(2) Don't rent it to people whom you don't trust. Use Craigslist, talk on the phone, meet them in person, get references. AirBNB is too impersonal to weed out the bad actors.
(3) If you follow rules (1) and (2), you shouldn't need to invade your tenants' privacy.
Re: DUH!! (Score:2)
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Mouse in your pocket?
Regular hotels have this issue too. (Score:2)
Bathrooms and bedrooms only? (Score:4, Interesting)
Cameras should be banned in all private spaces, not only bathrooms and bedrooms -- if you're renting the entire apartment on AirBNB, they should be banned in the living room, dining room, kitchen too. If it's not a shared space, people could be intimate or naked anywhere in it.
Also, if there's audio recording, there's a risk of picking up conversations intended to be private, which almost certainly violates the law even in states that have one-party consent laws.
The "hosts" installing the cameras shouldn't only be banned from AirBNB. They should be jailed and fined. Or just have their asses whupped by someone who rented from them. Violating people's privacy is a serious crime, and should be treated as such.
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No. Banned in private living spaces. Period.
If you allow people to rent places with disclosed cameras or microphones, every host will install them for safety. "Don't like it: sleep on the street." Also, the disclosures could take a form (buried in a bunch of legalese) that's usually ignored.
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If you allow people to rent places with disclosed cameras or microphones, every host will install them for safety. "Don't like it: sleep on the street."
Has AirBNB become the only way to book a room? If you don't like AirBNB's policies, book through someone else -- if enough people do that, then AirBNB will change their policies. If many people don't leave because of that policy, then I guess it wasn't so unpopular after all.
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That is objectively not true.
Not every listing has cameras disclosed, so your premise is false.
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I have a friend who rents out apartments. In one case, he put a fairly new computer into it's purchase container, and put the item in the cupboard for later retrieval.
One month later, and 4 groups of guests, he went to fetch the box with the computer, to find the box was there, but the computer was missing. That was a simple $400 loss. C'est la vie.
Incredibly Rare? (Score:5, Interesting)
Or merely rarely caught?
Or - more to the point, sufficiently rarely caught and publicized that a company flack thinks he can get away with calling it "incredibly rare"?
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Despite people's assertions, people who actively commit perverted crimes are actually incredibly rare given the general population.
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Whether that's true or not depends on what "perverted crimes" are in you locale. It's claimed, on what grounds I don't know, that the average US resident commits more than one felony per day. Do *you* know what all the laws say is a "crime"? What's the difference between a crime and a "perverted crime"?
If you had asserted that most people don't hurt other people against their will I would have agreed with you, but "perverted crimes" is basically an undefined term.
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If you had asserted that most people don't hurt other people against their will I would have agreed with you, but "perverted crimes" is basically an undefined term.
So you completely agree with my post and the fundamental discussion I was replying to but you typed all that because you're hung up on a definition? Are you in Human Resources by any chance?
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No. I can't tell what your asserting because your words aren't meaningful. IOW: Sorry, but when I get a syntax error I can't compile.
I don't know whether I agree with you or not.
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Better Idea (Score:5, Interesting)
If you come across one of these, steal the camera.
The host won't dare ask where their illegal spy camera overlooking the bed is.
We had some illegal cameras we found in one of our buildings that we simply took down. No one ever asked about them ( and they were pricey cameras ) because doing so would be admitting putting them up illegally in the first place.
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Re:Better Idea (Score:5, Interesting)
If you come across one of these, steal the camera.
The host won't dare ask where their illegal spy camera overlooking the bed is.
We had some illegal cameras we found in one of our buildings that we simply took down. No one ever asked about them ( and they were pricey cameras ) because doing so would be admitting putting them up illegally in the first place.
I know where I am but you should read TFA
The individual was one of two people who spoke to the website about their experience with finding hidden cameras inside their rental homes.
The other renter — a woman named Erin — said her host chose to report her for damages after she unplugged a device she found inside a Houston Airbnb.
“They just treated it like I was trying to get out of paying,” she said in reference to the company’s handling of the situation. “I was like, ‘Hello, he is saying he did what I was saying he did,’ and the customer service rep told me that I should ‘respond professionally.'”
If AirBnB's initial response is to blame the renter without investigating things then AirBnB has more than a voyeurism problem.
Re:Better Idea (Score:4, Interesting)
In my experience Airbnb couldn't care about the renter. When a renter has a terrible experience they do not display the comments they post. If you travel using Airbnb you are rolling the dice. I found myself stranded thousands of kilometers away from home and Aitbnb's response was that is was my though luck.
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>The other renter — a woman named Erin — said her host chose to report her for damages after she unplugged a device she found inside a Houston Airbnb.
Was it acutally a camera? There have been stories of paranoid guests tearing down smoke detectors thinking they were cameras. Not every electronic gadget in a home is spying on you (Alexa/Home/etc. excepted, of course).
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If you come across one of these, steal the camera.
The host won't dare ask where their illegal spy camera overlooking the bed is.
We had some illegal cameras we found in one of our buildings that we simply took down. No one ever asked about them ( and they were pricey cameras ) because doing so would be admitting putting them up illegally in the first place.
How can cameras that you installed in your own house be illegal? Can you cite any statutory law to back up how such a camera could be illegal?
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I don't agree with stealing. This Slashdot coverage from the past decade may remind you think twice about it, anyway :D
* College Student Finds GPS On Car, FBI Retrieves It [slashdot.org]
* Student Sues FBI For Planting GPS Tracker [slashdot.org]
Rare? (Score:2)
Wow (Score:2)
A treasure hunt to get free hardware! That's nice!
Ewwwwwww (Score:2)
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Makes you wonder how many places you stayed at (Airbnb's, motels,
hostels, etc) over the years might have been pulling this kind of shit
without your knowledge.
I think I see a consumer market for a device that can detect these kinds of 'bugs'.
1. Sucks to be them when I am in such a place and parading around naked!
2. Unless it's a stand alone camera, then what you are looking for is basically a Network Scanner. Just connect to the Host's network and scan for any devices that look like cameras.
Re: Ewwwwwww (Score:4, Informative)
Lastly, most consumer grade hidden cameras are in the form of motion detectors or smoke detectors. Or nanny cams in pluche toys. A closer look at one of these will quickly reveal the fact that it's a camera.
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https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=n... [amazon.com]
Looks like there are plenty of RF detectors under $25 bucks these days.
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If you have such a camera, turn off the lights and use it to find IR sources.
Any phone-camera will do that, but no need.
If you turn the lights off, you can see IR lights with the naked eye. The LEDs all leak enough red light to be easily seen in the dark.
Voyeur (Score:2)
https://www.theatlantic.com/en... [theatlantic.com]
A prior guest or service worker (Score:1)
Re: A prior guest or service worker (Score:2)
That's was my first thought too. I'm surprised by how many rental properties seem to never change their wifi password. Seems like it'd far easier for a past guest to set up something like that and far safer than doing it in a place you own
Sharing economy attack (Score:1)
Hm, if you plant a hidden camera, you can get a host banned for life (what are they going to say, it isn't theirs? Who will believe them?)
How much will a host will be willing to pay to avoid such banishment?
How much will Airbnb be willing to pay (as a bug bounty?) to avoid the bad press if it becomes widely known that they have had to ban thousands for hidden cameras?
How long until the pain and emotional suffering of their constituents causes politicians to decide that the Airbnb's need be responsible for
Well, no more airbnb rental... (Score:2)
Installation != Use (Score:5, Interesting)
People can (and do) deploy hidden cameras in conjunction with home security systems, for the purpose of identifying burglars or home invaders. A homeowner could reasonably claim that the cameras are only activated when the property is vacant. Considering that the value proposition of Air BnB is to facilitate absentee landlords, such property owners have a reasonable use case for cameras: to inspect the property via remote control after tenants leave, to see if the housekeeping service is doing their job. If the cameras are not actually running while tenants are present, there is no need to disclose their presence.
Hypothetically, if I owned a home in some far away place and wanted to rent it out via Air BnB, I would (at a minimum) have some sort of home security system to protect the property during weeks when it might be vacant. If someone wants to rent it and they ask me if the property is ready for visitors, I might want a camera system to help determine the status of the house. If I pay a service provider for maintenance or cleanup, I'm going to want some verification that they showed up and did the work. Cameras can do all of that, using nothing more than hardware already present for the security system.
Is there room for abuse? Absolutely. Bad landlords could hide under the skirt of reasonable use cases, and run the cameras 24x7. Even worse, the government really wants you to begrudgingly accept THEIR 24x7 cameras, so they are unlikely to provide meaningful protection from private cameras. Although Air BnB says disparaging things about hidden cameras, they don't want to lose their base of absentee landlords either. You can't have it both ways. The cameras are winning this battle, using expedience as a shield against privacy rights.
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If the cameras are not actually running while tenants are present, there is no need to disclose their presence.
Considering AirBnB's terms says otherwise, it's at minimum a breach of contract. And none of what you said describes a reasonable need for hidden cameras, even if that was so for aesthetic reasons there should at minimum be a notice. I wouldn't call you or the company if I found a hidden camera in my AirBnB, I'd call the cops and let them work out if you have been conducting illegal surveillance or not.
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The only recourse AirBnB offers for finding an undisclosed surveillance device is a refund, as described at https://www.airbnb.com/help/ar... [airbnb.com]
The presence of an undisclosed camera is at most, a breach of contract. And since AirBnB anticipates this and prescribes a specific remedy, it won't be easy for a tenant to get any more compensation than a free rental. After all, the tenants agreed to the terms (and the specific remedy for undisclosed cameras) as part of the contract.
The USE of such a camera might be
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People can (and do) deploy hidden cameras in conjunction with home security systems, for the purpose of identifying burglars or home invaders.
That should be easy to prove, show me all the other hidden cameras in all the other rooms. Or are you only worried about someone stealing the bed and the shower curtain?
Most folks I know don't hide security cameras (Score:2)
Re: Installation != Use (Score:2)
Assume whatever you want, but without actual proof that the camera was used, your assumptions fall short of probable cause. No proof means no search warrant, which means no arrest, which means game over.
Re: Installation != Use (Score:2)
Everyone has privacy rights, but everyone has a right to due process as well. A landlord's lack of camera disclosure falls far short of any level of proof necessary to establish violation of a tenant's privacy rights. Without such proof, it's not easy to find any jurisdiction on the planet (least of all Europe) that will act on the mere possibility that privacy rights might have been violated.
The solution is ridiculously simple. All rental contracts to include boilerplate text that acknowledges the prese
regulation (Score:2)
Of course (Score:2)
If I was dumb enough to rent my house out to strangers, I would certainly want some sort of monitoring to keep them from, or at least be able to charge them for, trashing it. I don't think you should have an expectation of privacy when you are guest in someone else's home.
Of course, I would never even imagine doing something as foolish as renting my house out to strangers that I haven't checked out and trust.
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You can't trust people anyway... (Score:4)
...I lived in a 3 room rental area in a house with no keys to my rooms for 3 years, I had this weird feeling that the guy who rented it to me kinda stole my stuff.
I got so paranoid on the 3rd year, that I decided to purchase an ip camera (a camera that can send mpg. files to my mail address without a computer connected to the camera, in other words...totally independent of my computer). I set it up, and no longer than half a day during a sunday, it actually captured the guy in action. When I was out of my "rented rooms", he was there prowling my private premises. he was doing something funky to my clothes, I couldn't quite figure out what it was, but he kept running for the window to see if I was on my way home, and back to my closets just to continue his business over and over again. I got these mails at work (with mpg4 files 10 seconds worth each), unfortunately a lot of them was sent to me due to light changes in the room ...like the clouds passing by etc, but I quickly found a way to search the image files for file-size changes as the files would pretty much stay the same size if nothing changed but colors, but when there was detail change in the images - the files would get considerably bigger.
Lo and behold...he was there - rummaging trough my stuff.
So yes, you can't trust people - you really can't! this isn't just one off, I've had 3 cases like this, all with their own weird fetishes. :/
Feature (Score:1)
What's the problem? (Score:2)
I have security cameras being installed in the near future. (I bought the Lorex system and am waiting for the installation to complete.)
I'm putting up several cameras around the perimeter of the house but also putting up a few internal cameras. Ones to catch the entrances to the house, one for the basement window near the power mains, one to cover my bar, and one for the entrance to my master bedroom.
I figure that if someone breaks in when we're away those are the areas that would be targets. The bar one
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I don't think foxes are religious...
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I agree. Being an atheist is as silly as believing in God...any god.
The only two rational positions are gnostic and agnostic. I happen to be both.
Re: The Absurdity of Claiming to be an Atheist (Score:2)
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Some people do it because they are perverts but most people do it to protect their property. Do remember that hotels also have hidden cameras.
Only in Russia do you expect those to be inside the hotel rooms!