Filmmakers Take Dutch State To Court Over Lost Piracy Revenue (torrentfreak.com) 97
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TorrentFreak: A coalition of Dutch film and TV producers is following through on their threat to file a lawsuit against the local Government. The filmmakers hold the authorities responsible for the country's high piracy rates. They claim the government tolerated and even encouraged unauthorized downloading for years and want to see compensation as a result. Last year the Dutch Government denied these allegations, noting that the filmmakers could go after downloaders directly if they want to recoup their losses. However, they are not backing down. On Tuesday a group of film and TV show companies issued a summons announcing their legal action, NRC reports. Through the court they hope to hold the Government liable, and if that's the case, a separate damages procedure will likely follow.
Re: (Score:3)
I don't hate the Dutch but for some reason they seem to really, really like hardcoding subtitles in pirated movies and that's fairly unpleasant.
Following this logic (Score:2)
Be prepared for lawsuits from oil companies because the government encouraged hybrid vehicles, decreasing Exxon's earnings potential.
Unrealized profit is not a loss (Score:5, Insightful)
This should be laughed out of court.
Decent case (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Who are those neutral legal experts, Jack Valenti and Jeff Sessions?
Re: (Score:2)
Really? I blame the filmmakers for neglecting the fact they need to take into account that a portion will be pirated. Was the movie just rotten and did not make any sales? Was it a hit at the cinema and a flop on DVD, or were the two release events too close for people to bother watching in both formats?
Sounds to me like an excuse to release crap and blame someone else and still make a profit.
Re:Decent case (Score:4, Insightful)
I know how my government would react after losing that lawsuit.
"Obviously we didn't do enough to protect your interests, so we have to step up our efforts. To fund this, there will be a new tax on content. And of course the money you now get for CD sales will go into that funds, too. In return we will protect you. Promised. And don't be surprised if that new tax is somehow on par with whatever we paid you.
Only that you'll pay that tax annually."
Don't fuck with governments, they have a way to get back at you.
Re: (Score:3)
Unrealized profit can be a loss. Say you are involved in an accident that was not your fault, like a traffic accident. You are unable to run your business and have to close your cafe for a month while you recover. When you re-open you are getting significantly fewer customers as before, since regulars have switched to other cafes and it takes time for word to get out that you are open again.
In such a case you would be able to claim lost profits from the at-fault party's insurance.
Simple Solution (Score:5, Insightful)
To avoid such expensive lawsuits, the government should revoke the copyright monopolies they have granted these organizations. Then they won't have to worry about anyone infringing on them.
Re: (Score:1, Informative)
The EU dictocracy does not allow for that; copyright law is handed down from on high by Brussels, and new member states must agree to implement EU copyright laws as a condition of accession. So short of the Netherlands pulling a Nexit and leaving the EU, they will not be able to implement your solution, even if they wanted to.
Incorrect. (Score:5, Interesting)
What is in the EU directive are a minimum set of requirements for copyright laws, but NO ACTUAL LAW, the governments have to supply it, worked to whatever they desire within the guidelines given.
And rescinding copyrights for abuse is 100% within those guidelines.
Re: (Score:3)
As far as I'm concerned, the EU can't explode soon enough.
You'd be better waiting for betelgeuse to explode.
Re: (Score:2)
I was prepared for WW3 to be fought over oil, over water, over arable land... but never over people wanting to watch their show without having to put up with ads.
Mic Drop (Score:2)
You should never, ever drop a microphone, for any reason.
Unless you make a comment like this. And then it's absolutely warranted.
My heart bleeds for them (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:My heart bleeds for them (Score:5, Insightful)
These are Dutch TV producers. From the country which brought you:
"Big Brother" - A show where people with no lives can watch people with slightly more exciting lives, sometimes live.
"The Voice" - A bunch of singers trying to put up with people who can't sing wanting to be stars.
"Downistie" - A soap opera staring only people with down syndrome
"Adam Zkt Eva" - A dating show where contestants are naked.
"Who is the Worst Driver in the Netherlands?" - One of the drivers ended up running over the producer of the show. You can't make this shit up.
Re: (Score:2)
The people who brought your Downistie also were responsible for the Smurfs animated series. Their only redemption is they also did Alfred J. Kwak.
Re: My heart bleeds for them (Score:1)
You shut you fucking mouth. Downistie is the greatest show ever. Although, it should have been called DownTown.
Re: (Score:2)
Doesn't sound any worse than other countries, TBH. In the UK we had nudist gameshows (don't google "keith chegwin naked" whatever you do, it's worse than goatse) and I seem to recall a US show where the season finale was the Taliban vs. the IRA.
Re: (Score:2)
What you're missing is where most of these countries get their idea from :-)
If you have a really shit reality, game, or drama show on TV chances are the Dutch were it's pioneers.
Re: (Score:2)
In all the programs, the contestants are losers, which are desperately trying to get the ticket to fame in an effortless way.
As for the voice, usually the judges are a bunch of idiots with friends in high places. Hell, come of think of it, it also defines the judges of the other programs too.
Trash TV made by trash people for idiots.
Re: (Score:2)
Nonsense. Netflix has a whooping 111 Dutch titles of which only about 33% is cabaret/stand-up comedy.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, the Netherlands don't have capital punishment and they are generally known to play by the rules.
There is a reason that lawsuit is brought up there instead of, say, Russia. Or Turkey.
Be careful what you ask for (Score:5, Interesting)
Later when the music companies tried to sue individuals for copyright violation, the courts decided that since The People had already compensated the music industry for their losses via the CD tax, there was no need for any more lawsuits.
Double-dipping may be normal for the music and movie industry (when's the last time one of them offered you a discount for upgrading your DVD collection to Blu-Ray, or CD to streamed, even though you ostensibly already bought a license when you bought the first one?). But it's not normal for the rest of the world, and the courts will slap them down if they try to impose their perverted view of how things should work onto the real world.
Re: (Score:1)
Money to be made? Why would anyone pay for pirated content? If you're pirating, why not do it for free?
Re: (Score:3)
Why would anyone pay for pirated content?
Because often times, it's better than the original content: no unskippable ads, no unskippable piracy warnings (lol), and no DRM/malware.
Re: (Score:2)
Where does it end... until eventually it's mandatory that you pay a monthly subcription fee to
Re: (Score:2)
As long as a bureaucrat can walk out into a city and return with any CD/DVD R media it should be fine.
Re: (Score:1)
There already is a charge on HDDs. It just got forgotten about.
Re: (Score:2)
What happens when the government realizes that no one burns pirated moves to CD/DVD anymore since large HDD's are affordable now? Will they leave it as-is and tell the MPAA to kick rocks from now on forever... or will they eventually start taxing HDD sales, and other forms of storage sales.
They are way ahead of you. Since downloading in the Netherlands is legal (it is, by all means and measures, you are allowed to make a copy of a media for own use, even if you do not own the original media, but you can only make at for yourself, it is illegal to do it for others or to distribute your copy and it is illegal to download from illegal sources), there is a levy on unwritten media. So every empty CD or DVD you buy, every external harddrive (gotta love the law, only harddrives, not solid state driv
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, don't be unfair. Reefer Madness is a hoot and a half, I've rarely seen such a good spoof of a government scare bear public announcement.
Well, that's easy (Score:3)
Lost revenue from the Dutch film industry is roughly zero. As if somebody actually watches that tripe... Most of it only gets produced because of heavy subsidising by the government in the first place; maybe they should ask for that money back.
Oh, and we already pay a tax to compensate for piracy. Let's give that money back as well.
I have a nice Dutch word for them: "kansloos".
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Lost revenue to piracy isn't the point. We're planning to interpret the 'low sales due to lack of interest in our product' as a loss of revenue, then sue our disinterested customers for refusing to purchase or subscribe.
Re: Well, that's easy (Score:3)
The Dutch already pay a significant tax (it used to be 30c) per gigabyte of storage on everything from CDs to SSDs to pay for the losses of piracy for at least the last 15 years. The best thing is that the billions collected is held by a private entity that only sends a small percentage to the artists that are registered with the major labels. Independent labels haven't gotten a cent.
Re: (Score:1)
a) TPP isn't ratified yet
b) The Netherlands isn't in the Pacific, nor part of TPP
c) TPP isn't ratified yet. I realise I've said that already, but it needed repeating
d) Europe has so far told US (who have withdrawn from TPP) to fuck off with the version that applies to them (TTIP)
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, yeah, the media cartels jumped the gun again, what else is new?
They'll just withdraw for now and wait for that law for parasites to become reality.
Re: (Score:2)
TFA and the linked Dutch source are not very specific, but I'm pretty sure this is a claim in civil court, not in public/administrative court, using the "damages from illegitimate acts" (BW6 art 162).
Note that the Dutch High Court rules that the blank-CD levy is not a compensation for illegal downloading, and that an EU ruling in 2014 (?) made downloading illegal. However, the government didn't really do anything with that, and the goal of the lawsuit is presumably to prod the government into action against
Re: (Score:2)
Doesn't work. All that does is make them say "See? They're not buying our crap, so they OBVIOUSLY must be copying it!"
I've been boycotting the fuckers for ages now. I bet by now I'm a dirty pirate in their eyes even though most of the shit they produce ain't even worth the bandwidth it would take to download it.
Not paying != theft (Score:2)
Strange how none of them have accused me of theft and tried to sue me
time for a government investigation (Score:1)
into movie business accountancy practice after all no movie ever makes a profit - so no tax is paid why would any honest person keep throwing good money after bad?
Or alternatively (Score:1)
You can't fight city hall (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's what TTIP is for.
Some background (Score:3)
An somewhat unintended side-effect of that was that it more or less legalized downloading and copying for personal use as well, since the content industry already received the levy for the discs. When they later tried suing people for unauthorized downloading/copying, they had a very hard time getting anything to stick because "we already paid for it".
Now they are claiming that the Dutch government's slow response to the 'problem' is costing them a bazillion dollars, and want to hold them liable for missed revenues.
The root of the problem is that the music + movie industries are having buyers remorse for the initial legislation they forced through.
Re: (Score:2)
You got that wrong. You're supposed to pay the CD tax, but that doesn't mean you get to copy.
What, you actually wanted something in return for your money? C'mon. How long have you been dealing with the content industry?
Re:Don't forget the piracy formula (Score:4, Interesting)
And as soon as they actually sold the "pirated" material in the country, I could actually see that argument.
But the main reason for the widespread "piracy", aside of the obvious "The Netherlands is an old seafaring nation so of course they have a pirate heritage to defend" joke, is that you, dear media industry, fail to offer what people want. Believe me, we want to buy your stuff. You're not selling. Why are we supposed to wait half a year or even longer before we're allowed to see what you have broadcast in the US or UK? And a friend of mine who is into Anime could easily triple the length of this post with the hoops he's supposed to jump through to get half of his favorite shows at all, or at least within less than a decade after they have been out in Japan.
Sell me what I want or step aside to let those that do step in!
Obvious Bullshit (Score:2)
This is low cost spin-doctoring, part of the continuous drip, drip of miss-information. Legally they do not have a leg to stand on, their intent is free publicity, creating the impression amongst gullible and ignorant people. While clearly some people are taken in by obvious bullshit (c.f. Brexit, Trump). It really purpose is tainting the pool or muddying the water
In a nutshell (Score:3)
If your business model fails, sue governments for not creating a protected space for your business.
Re: (Score:2)
I guess it is more easy to sue than to keep up with changes in the way we consume entertainment, and the inherent evolution of technology.
For instance, showcasing worthless CD/DVDs with plastic and wasting resources producing/moving that around/the costly premium real estate to show case them is obsolete as we talk in a digital world.
It would be far more interesting shaving those costs, and create micro payments on recents films
So they want the taxpayers to fund their crap? (Score:2)
Makes sense. Taxpayers do not get to decide whether they like something, they just have to pay.