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97 Tech Companies Including Apple, Google, Microsoft Call Travel Ban Unlawful In Rare Coordinated Legal Action (washingtonpost.com) 626

An anonymous reader shares a WashingtonPost report: Silicon Valley is stepping up its confrontation with the Trump administration. On Sunday night, technology giants Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Netflix, Twitter, Uber and many others filed a legal brief opposing the administration's contentious entry ban. The move represents a rare coordinated action across a broad swath of the industry (Editor's note: the link could be paywalled; alternate source) -- 97 companies in total -- and demonstrates the depth of animosity toward the Trump ban. The amicus brief was filed with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, which is expected to rule within a few days on an appeal by the administration after a federal judge in Seattle issued late Friday a temporary restraining order putting the entry ban on hold. The brief comes at the end of a week of nationwide protests against the plan -- as well as a flurry of activity in Silicon Valley, a region that sees immigration as central to its identity as an innovation hub.From a TechCrunch report: Notably absent from the list of 97 companies are several who met with Trump prior to his inauguration: Amazon, Oracle, IBM, SpaceX and Tesla. Although Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos was highly critical of Trump prior to his election, he has not spoken out against the immigration policy. Oracle CEO Safra Catz is serving as an advisor to the Trump transition team, while SpaceX and Tesla CEO Elon Musk has defended his decision to remain on an advisory council for Trump.
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97 Tech Companies Including Apple, Google, Microsoft Call Travel Ban Unlawful In Rare Coordinated Legal Action

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  • Cheap (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:03AM (#53811289)
    Why don't we just allow them to get exemptions for anyone they have that qualifies as a truly highly skilled employee that they can't get locally and be done with it? Personally I feel there wouldn't be that many and this is actually about cheap labor.
    • Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:24AM (#53811409)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Re:Cheap (Score:5, Informative)

        by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:30AM (#53811445)
        You must be new here. It has long been known that tech companies are finding ways around these rules. There have been many documented cases of domestic workers losing their jobs and being replaced by these workers, I'm sure if that is the case then companies aren't going out of their way to find someone somewhere in the US to fill open positions. I'd be interested in knowing what skills you have that no American anywhere would have. I'm sure there are people out there but it has to be a rare circumstance and a rare specialty.
        • Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)

          by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:42AM (#53811513)
          Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • Re:Cheap (Score:5, Interesting)

            by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:52AM (#53811603)

            lack of people willing to work in the location

            Ah yes that's the game they play. At one time they would have to pay someone specifically to move to that location but today they don't.

          • Re:Cheap (Score:4, Insightful)

            by blind biker ( 1066130 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @10:45AM (#53811975) Journal

            Why was I hired and accepted? I had a combination of speciality and lack of people willing to work in the location the business concerned was located at.

            Lack of people willing to work? The very fact you claim something you cannot know, makes me believe that you're just bullshitting. I am not a US citizen and I don't live there, but I can very easily believe that the company you're working at could have found the necessary workforce in the country, had they be willing to pay for it.

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          It's not just "no American", it's "no American available to fill the post". When there is more demand than talent available in an area, people from outside that area are needed to meet it.

          You can argue that companies should be required to help Americans move to fill posts, although it's often not just a case of offering generous relocation packages.

          I'm sure there is abuse of this system, but at the same time there is also ridiculous exaggeration. People claiming that places are 90% Indian, while stats keep

          • You pay them enough and they will come. There are many remote places that need doctors and medical people, those industries don't seem to have an issue with holding recruiting drives to get people where they need them. This is how a healthy market is supposed to work, why does the tech industry get a free pass?
            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

              Lots of more rural places around here struggle to find enough doctors. Doctors are in demand, they can pick the best places to go to, and few want to be right out in the sticks it seems.

              That's one reason why tech companies congregate around places like Silicon Valley. That's where the talent is, and when the talent is in demand it gets to decide where it's going to work.

          • by sethstorm ( 512897 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @10:49AM (#53812009) Homepage

            It's not just "no American", it's "no American available to fill the post" for a given price

            The citizens are quite available, the companies have to quit being picky.

            while stats keep saying that these companies that are supposedly abusing the system are mostly whit

            Easy to say that when the firm contracts out to a body shop, thus rendering any and all calculations invalid.

            You can argue that companies should be required to help Americans move to fill posts

            Even if it's entry-level work, I'd have no problem with that.

            Make it such a royal PITA to not [directly] hire a citizen for an FTE position that they don't bother with non-citizens.

        • Re:Cheap (Score:5, Interesting)

          by jandersen ( 462034 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @10:37AM (#53811915)

          You must be new here.

          A word to the wise: always check the user ID and compare it to your own before you use that particular opening. In this case: 241428 1411889, meaning that he/she has been here a while longer than you.

          • A word to the wise: always check the user ID and compare it to your own before you use that particular opening. In this case: 241428 1411889, meaning that he/she has been here a while longer than you.

            A word to the unimaginative: Lots of us lurked for years before creating an account here, or lost our first account and can't recover it for one reason or another. Not only did I lurk for over a year before creating my first account, but this isn't even it. My first one had one less digit. IIRC it began with a 7 or so, but I don't even remember the name much less the UID (or the password, ha ha.) In case anyone is wondering, this is only my second account. I don't have time for sockpuppets on top of all the

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        We have the same thing in the UK. A lot of people think that there is unlimited immigration and we have no control over it. Actually it's already heavily controlled and very difficult to get a visa.

        They are in for a shock when Brexit happens and they realize this.

    • Why don't we just allow them to get exemptions for anyone they have that qualifies as a truly highly skilled employee that they can't get locally and be done with it? Personally I feel there wouldn't be that many and this is actually about cheap labor.

      The fair way to handle ir is for each such prosoect to apply for a standard immigrant visa. The company would then offer sponsorship support, which helps a lot. That's how my father did it years ago when he worked DOD contracts.

      Today, 'refugees' are ululating for special exemptions from the vetting process. So are the corporate biggies who want cheap peons.

  • Meh. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by msauve ( 701917 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:07AM (#53811303)
    Companies don't do this because they have deeply held legal or ethical principles. They do it because one side of the case makes them more money than the other.
    • Can I ask you what is the source of this information?

      • Can I ask you what is the source of this information?

        Fiduciary duty to shareholders, basically. The other side of this board level obsession with profit is all the regular people who buy mutual funds and shares based on which one is going to give them the biggest payback. In the end people want profits, and if CEOs aren't interested in delivering these, then CEOs can be moved aside by boards. Note, this is what happened to Steve Jobs, fortunately for him he got the ultimate comeuppance out of the situation, but this is rare.

    • Companies don't do this because they have deeply held legal or ethical principles. They do it because one side of the case makes them more money than the other.

      Very true, and we now have a list of 97 tech companies presenting their facts that allowing free travel increases their profits, and Trump has a half dozen tech companies advising him of "Alternate Facts" that make the travel ban look like a good idea.

      At the end of the day, the ban isn't about tech company profits - it's about values deeply held by a minority of the population. The question is: will we let that minority opinion dictate national policy, or will we protest, file injunctions, and use the syst

  • by johanw ( 1001493 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:16AM (#53811341)

    The next presidential decrete sets the number of H1-B visas to be given out the next 4 years to 0, while congress gets to pass a law to end the H1-B visas completely.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      The next presidential decrete sets the number of H1-B visas to be given out the next 4 years to 0, while congress gets to pass a law to end the H1-B visas completely.

      The more batshit insane he gets, the closer to impeachment he becomes.

      The republicans will happily throw him under the bus if he starts to make the republicans unpopular. I'm sure Mike Pence is going to be a very complicit puppet after Trump is impeached.

      BTW, is "decrete" a portmanteau of decree and secrete... because that seems fitting.

      • by Mashiki ( 184564 ) <mashiki.gmail@com> on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:40AM (#53811495) Homepage

        You don't get it do you? Blue collar workers have been putting up with their jobs being outsourced since the 1990's under various trade agreements. The white collar workers would go on and on about how those people should have gotten jobs just like them, and be safe from outsourcing. Now it's happening to those white collar workers who were smugly looking down. This backlash is decades in the making, and in some cases it's even worse on particular parts(especially racially) of the US then others. Hell, it's the same here in Canada. There are places that still haven't recovered from NAFTA, and that's in my own backyard.

        These companies can stomp their feet all they want, and they can pump out the polls saying "look at all these people saying how much they hate Trump." But in 90% of the cases people fear a backlash against themselves and will lie about their actual answer for fear of being attacked. Either socially, or politically. That's one of the main reasons the polls were so wildly out-of-whack compared to the actual election. Even democrats are finally starting to get it. [msnbc.com] On top of that, it would have to take something massive and I mean truly massive at this point to stem the losses that Democrats have taken in the last decade. You know, like full-on-depression levels of economic collapse. And even then, the chances of that working are less likely then you think. Ask the NDP and Liberals here in Canada how well a similar plan worked out for them from ~2000-2015. I'll give you a tip: It didn't.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by radl33t ( 900691 )
          polls were within margin of error, they weren't widely out of whack. stop this revisionism. Trump had an outside chance and he squeaked through. It doesn't invalidate any of the polling methodology, if anything it challenges some non statistical assumptions about neglecting to poll some key areas. That's it.
        • scarborough isn't a democrat. he's msnbc's token republican.

    • Hurry up and do it. There's nothing special about Silicon Valley. Those talented people you want to keep out will find other places to go that are more friendly to building global businesses.
      • Not all H1Bs go to Silicon Valley, keeping them out wouldn't help other States, it might help other countries as you suggest.

        I do agree we should crack down on H1B abuse, but the idea at heart is a good one. I think they should give priority to converting Student Visa to H1B. I've known a few foreign student visas who have done so, but they didn't get any priority. If there person is already here at a student it makes sense to keep them here as an employee, no reason to lose those we educate.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Do you think Trump is unhinged enough to commit economic suicide?

      Like it or not, all countries need some level of skilled immigration.

  • by mark-t ( 151149 ) <marktNO@SPAMnerdflat.com> on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:17AM (#53811355) Journal
    That seems like an inherent contradiction in terms.

    Unconstitutional, I can understand, or even calling it just plain wrong, but unlawful?

  • by mykepredko ( 40154 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:20AM (#53811377) Homepage

    While this condemnation of the travel ban is laudable, I don't think that it will have much impact on Mr. Trump simply because he is something of a Luddite - don't forget that through the Clinton email scandal, Mr. Trump declared that he thinks computers are overused for communication and, other than Twitter, it doesn't seem like he uses anything other than paper.

    Along with this, I suspect that if you were to look at where these companies' employees were situated, you would discover that they would be overwhelmingly in constituencies which didn't vote for him which really makes their value to him in retaining power negligible. If it is extremely unlikely that they would support him.

    So, if he doesn't see the value of the technology being represented by these companies and nobody in them votes for him, why would anybody think this would have affect on him or anybody in his administration?

  • ONLY tech??? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    First red flag here - why are only tech companies doing this? Where are the other blue chip companies? if this is a huge problem for teh US, and is unlawful, why is the only sector speaking up the same sector that imports the most foreign workers on restricted visas?

  • Except it's not. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:36AM (#53811467)

    List of countries comes from Section 217(a)(12) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (Signed by Obama)

    Section 212(f) of the INA, U.S. Code 1182 - Inadmissible aliens: "Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate."

    Congress already approved the, Trump just invoked it.

    Non-citizens of this country have no affirmative right to reenter this country. Is it in the constitution? Is it in the bill of rights? It's not. If you have a visa or green card, we don't have to let you come back. Heck, it even says it on your visa application page:

    Question: "After I have my visa, I will be able to enter the U.S., correct?
    Answer: "A visa does not guarantee entry into the United States. A visa allows a foreign citizen to travel to the U.S. port-of-entry, and the Department of Homeland Security U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) immigration inspector authorizes or denies admission to the United States."

    So this lawsuit is FUD, it's a bunch of leftist companies whining, pissing, and moaning that they can't get their cheap labor or doing their SJW duties. The only saving grace for the leftist is SC is split between 4 leftist, 2 rightist, and 2 RINOs...

    *Please note before you start attacking me. I for open borders, but only after we: 1) Remove the federal welfare system completely, 2) make citizenship easier to obtain. I have no issue with Trumps temporary ban, considering all of the nations listed are failed states. Kind of hard to ask those governments who these people are when they're engulfed in civil wars (or there is no government).

  • by humptheElephant ( 4055441 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:46AM (#53811541)
    I noticed that one of the countries that are in the Trump list is Iraq. Lots of refugees there caused by the destabilization of the country caused by some other country invading it. I wonder what country that was? Then there is another country where the 9-11 terrorists came from that isn't affected by the travel ban. I wonder why that is? Could someone in this administration have a financial interest in this country? Nah, I can't believe something like that. Administration folks are good honest outstanding citizens to have any conflict of interest.
  • by iris-n ( 1276146 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:50AM (#53811577)

    I'm a bit disturbed to see Musk sucking up to Trump. Does anyone have a reliable source on why he's doing it?

    My guess is that he has no choice. One of his companies (SpaceX) depends a lot on government money. Trump could deeply damage it with a penstroke by excluding it from ISS resupply missions, or forbidding it to compete for national security launches. His other company (Tesla) does not go well with Trump's love for the oil industry.

    • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @10:15AM (#53811757) Homepage

      Check out his twitter posts. He's completely fallen for the bait, the exact same thing Trump used on his Republican political opponents: convincing them that they "have his ear" so that they self-censor if not outright help him, in order to avoid ruining their chance to "moderate his behavior". Which of course they actually have zero influence on whatsoever.

      Elon Musk is his newest Chris Christie.

    • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @10:30AM (#53811865) Homepage

      All of his tweets on the topic, not counting replies:

      "The blanket entry ban on citizens from certain primarily Muslim countries is not the best way to address the country’s challenges"
      "Many people negatively affected by this policy are strong supporters of the US. They've done right,not wrong & don't deserve to be rejected."
      "Please read immigration order. Lmk specific amendments. Will seek advisory council consensus & present to President." (links to executive order)
      "Reading the source material is better than reading other people's opinions about the source material" (links to a person saying "Not a trump lover by any means, but after reading the language of the order, it looks far less bad than portrayed by the left")
      "Regarding the meeting at the White House:" (links to image of text insisting that he's hoping to use his status on the advisory council to oppose the order, and that all he cares about is building a good future for humanity)
      "At my request, the agenda for yesterday's White House meeting went from not mentioning the travel ban to having it be first and foremost"
      "In addition, I again raised climate. I believe this is doing good, so will remain on council & keep at it. Doing otherwise would be wrong."
      "Many in America don't realize how proud they should be of the legal system. Not perfect, but nowhere is the cause of justice better served."
      "Activists should be pushing for more moderates to advise President, not fewer. How could having only extremists advise him possibly be good?"
      Retweet of someone quoting what he just tweeted
      "Signing off now. That was more than enough Twitter trouble for one morning!"

      He sounds a bit stressed though, if you check out his replies. Examples:

      @rtoro20: "@elonmusk Can you tweet more please."
      @elonmusk: "@rtoro20 Really? I already have both feet in my mouth and am levitating on my own idiocy..."

      @eveegdmann: "@elonmusk not sure, though, to spend time on politics is the right way. Especially when you stayed away from it by your own choice before."
      @elonmusk: "@eveegdmann Really don't want to get in politics. I just want to help invent and develop technologies that improve lives. Feels so bizarre."

      He seems to feel that people just "don't get" that he's trying to do good by being on the committee. He doesn't seem to understand that most of his critics know what he's trying to do, but see him as being used and falling for a bait of fake "influence". Like a mouse going, "No, you don't understand, if I just get this cheese that's on this trap, it'll feed us all! Stop saying that traps are bad and we shouldn't associate with them - I agree that traps are bad, but look, there's cheese right there!"

  • by Merk42 ( 1906718 ) on Monday February 06, 2017 @09:59AM (#53811637)
    Now to be Republican you have to be pro Federal Legislation and anti Big Business?
    • Now to be Republican you have to be pro Federal Legislation and anti Big Business?

      The only people who think Republicans are "pro big business" are idiots who believe what the Democrats tell them. Almost all large businesses lean heavily Democrat - they're cheaper and easily used for regulatory capture.

      Republicans tend to get most donations from individuals and small business owners.

  • List of Mega Corps (Score:2, Interesting)

    by DarkOx ( 621550 )

    Hmm list of TBTFs make extra legal argument to try and influence what should be a narrow legal question about the scope of a 1952 immigration act.

    It does not matter if you or anyone else things the action is a good idea. What matters is a very simple Question of did the legislation enacted by congress give the president the power to do what he did or not. Washington State and these mega corps are conflating irrelevant issues and trying to get the courts to act outside the law. They don't care about the r

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