How A Massive India Call Center Swindled 15,000 Americans (nytimes.com) 104
An FBI agent based in India says the country has now become a major hub for call-center fraud, blaming "a demographic bulge of computer-savvy, young, English-speaking job seekers; a vast call-center culture; super-efficient technology; and what can only be described as ingenuity." The Justice Depatment recently indicted one company for scamming "hundreds of millions of dollars" from over 15,000 victims, placing more than 1.8 million phone calls to Americans, and Slashdot reader retroworks brings an update:
The New York Times has an interesting blow-by-blow story on two India tech center employees who informed on their call center fraud operation, which targeted Americans (especially recent immigrants) with fraudulent IRS calls and other scams. [May be paywalled; free version here.] The building was surrounded by police, phone lines cut. Eventually 630 of the employees were released, and charges were brought against 70 managers and executives of the call center.
The operation filled a seven-story high-rise, and the Times reports that after the raid, "fraudulent IRS calls to Americans dropped 95% percent, according to the Better Business Bureau." But they add that one former employee believes the scams will continue. Within weeks of the raid, he'd been offered a nearly identical job: calling Americans and claiming that their computer was infected with a virus.
The operation filled a seven-story high-rise, and the Times reports that after the raid, "fraudulent IRS calls to Americans dropped 95% percent, according to the Better Business Bureau." But they add that one former employee believes the scams will continue. Within weeks of the raid, he'd been offered a nearly identical job: calling Americans and claiming that their computer was infected with a virus.
I still don't know how to feel about this... (Score:5, Funny)
Sometimes the tables are turned [youtube.com]. This is hilarious and sad. I can't decide how to feel about it, honestly.
Re: (Score:1)
Also quite funny [youtube.com]
Empthy (Score:5, Funny)
I feel bad for people who fall for it, but the two times I was called for similar grifting, it was a hilarious fun conversation.
Re:Empthy (Score:5, Funny)
I had a call too, right after I had read an article on the scam. As soon as the Indian fellow said, "We think your computer is infected with a virus, we are here to help you recover, just let us download Blah to fix it." I couldn't stop laughing at him. He was persistent, but so was my laughter.
Re: (Score:2)
If I get a call from them, I'll tell them that I don't run Windows, just PC-BSD, and then ask them whether they have anything for that. They'd be lucky if they know what an Operating System is, let alone the difference b/w Windows and Unix
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
These are easy to spot. (Score:5, Informative)
The insidious ones now popping up are really clever IVR calls with recorded voices of a perky white woman (sometimes man) with a generic accent. She giggles, pauses, apologizes for the delay claiming phone problems and then asks if I can hear her ok.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
The REALLY insidious ones are even able to mount a successful run for the Presidency...
Re: (Score:2)
You should try phoning a Trinidadian, then guessing if he's white or black. Man.
Re: (Score:2)
Were I in Trinidad, your comment would be valid. Shockingly, I'm not in Trinidad.
Re: (Score:2)
Memo to self : must visit Trinidad one day.
Seriously - do you really think that you can tell someone's skin colour from their phone accent? Do you
Re: (Score:2)
do you really think that you can tell someone's skin colour from their phone accent?
Sometimes.
FBI Jurisdiction (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but isn't the FBI restricted to US jurisdiction? I grew up with the understanding that they were basically a domestic police force on the national level.
I'm assuming I am mistaken, please feel free to give me further understanding on how the FBI can be in India.
Re: (Score:1)
You could ask about the FBI on a technology board full of middle-aged man-children, or this [google.com] also explains it.
Re: Jurisdiction - FBI Investigates what it wants (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Don't be a moron, if they're committing a crime in the US, then it's the FBIs jurisdiction to work with the Indian government to have them extradited to be prosecuted here. Now, if India chooses not to extradite, that's their own prerogative, but the FBI working with their government for extradition is exactly what they do.
Re: (Score:2)
I just have to ask, are you claiming that you think fraud and extortion isn't a crime in India?
Re: (Score:3)
That may be very well, but they don't have any authority to operate outside the US in a foreign country as a law enforcement agency, unless that country ascribes them the authority - the FBI arresting someone in India would be simple kidnapping, and the agents involved would be committing a crime.
So its not debatable at all - the crime here (fraud) is still being committed in India, while simultaneously being committed in the US. That doesn't mean the FBI can fly to India and arrest someone - however, many
Re: (Score:2)
Even TFS didn't make that claim. They said they were "investigating". Which covers a multitude of events short of barging in with guns drawn and handcuffs at the ready.
Re: (Score:2)
Under who is law? WTF is that supposed to mean?
Re: (Score:1)
Re:FBI Jurisdiction (Score:4, Funny)
800 military bases in over 70 countries. Multiple wars in the last five decades. Largest economy in the world. Power doesn't get questioned.
And soon the only nation other than North Korea that is being ruled by an alien hair piece.
Re:FBI Jurisdiction (Score:5, Informative)
The FBI is primarily an investigatory bureau (hence the "Bureau of Investigation" bit) and there are many parts of investigation that do not require any extraordinary police powers. In addition, when a a crime crosses national borders they may be called to meet with those who do posses police authority rather than shout responses across the border.
Re: (Score:1)
The FBI is responsible for the investigation of crimes committed against American's nationally and internationally. They have "extraterritorial squads" that investigate, for example, the bombing of a U.S. Embassy in Africa. To operate as a law enforcement body outside the U.S., they must partner with the law enforcement agencies of the foreign countries. They cannot arrest someone in a foreign country, but must ask that country to do so. They do not carry firearms in foreign countries unless authorized
Re:FBI Jurisdiction (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but isn't the FBI restricted to US jurisdiction? I grew up with the understanding that they were basically a domestic police force on the national level.
I'm assuming I am mistaken, please feel free to give me further understanding on how the FBI can be in India.
From the article:
according to Indian and American investigators, who said that the raid in Thane was carried out entirely by the local police, without assistance from American officials.
The FBI can still typically do investigation in other countries: collect intel, interview people, etc. They can then provide information tot he local authorities to handle the actual police work.
Yaz
Re:FBI Jurisdiction (Score:5, Interesting)
The story itself talks about one of the senior local officials who won't talk much about the investigation, but "he will describe the raid, in loving, cinematic detail: How at 10 p.m., after the last of the call center staff had arrived for the night shift, 200 police officers streamed up the main staircase, blocking every exit and detaining all 700 people who worked inside." That's not 200 FBI agents, that's 200 local officers.
I haven't read the entire story yet, but part of the reason that the whistleblowers contacted the FTC (and through them the FBI) may be corruption - if they went through local channels and picked the wrong person, that person might have simply gone back to the leaders of this with their hand out and the information on the whistleblowers. The FBI may not have jurisdiction, but they also don't have a reputation for accepting bribes.
Re: (Score:2)
Either the FBI threw a lot of money at this or the call center forgot to make a donation to the police orphans' fund.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, this is a good place where FBI operations could be outsourced to Interpol
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but isn't the FBI restricted to US jurisdiction? I grew up with the understanding that they were basically a domestic police force on the national level.
I'm assuming I am mistaken, please feel free to give me further understanding on how the FBI can be in India.
They were working with the government of that country or in cooperation of that country.
Hang up if you hear an indian accent (Score:1, Insightful)
I hang up immediately on hearing an indian accent, it's as simple as that.
Re: (Score:3)
That may work for you. For me, though, unfortunately, both my manager and my star developer are Indian. I can't just hang up on an Indian accent. :) Then again, I can recognise their voices pretty easily by now, so any other Indian accent, sure. :)
Re: (Score:3)
How refreshing (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I was just about as flabbergasted. I thought it's illegal to bring charges against managers and executives.
Only then I noticed that this story isn't about the US and instead I wondered what the fuck the FBI is doing there.
Caught a client just in time (Score:5, Interesting)
Many of my clients are older people who simply wouldn't know tech savvy if you drowned them in it.
A while back, one of my clients' wives calls us and tells us he's on the phone with this tech support company in India and they're asking for several hundred dollars to remove a virus.
I told her to pull their cablemodem out of the wall and then hang up with the guy. Don't even discuss it with her husband (as it'd give the guy from "wherever" a chance to do something to the machine).
Once he was disconnected I had him hang up and explained the scam to him, while the call center guy tried calling back.
I then pointed out that he already had both Kaspersky Antivirus and Malwarebytes on there.
And on the off chance he was infected, I had him pull down a bootable rescue CD and scan that way.
Saved him several hundred bucks and possibly getting his machine infected.
Re:Caught a client just in time (Score:4, Interesting)
I see popups all the time telling me my computer has a virus. They often show me all these windows .dll files that are infected. Amazing as I'm running Ubuntu. I've grown my banned url list quite a bit.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
They'll clean your bank account for you absolutely free!
I lik eeh pat where the guys want to get US Visas (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, why not introduce a new type of visa for criminals, and give it to any of these scammers when they ask for a visa. Then, at the port of entry, when they check in at immigration, immediately call law enforcement and hand them over
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, why not introduce a new type of visa for criminals, and give it to any of these scammers when they ask for a visa. Then, at the port of entry, when they check in at immigration, immediately call law enforcement and hand them over
Once they go to the US embassy you could arrest them there if you wanted to, no need to wait.
informant (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Not everyone gets that kind of calls. Some don't get called at all anymore, like me.
Steal their time. Keep them talking and keep them busy with you, make sure they waste at least 15-30 minutes. Yes, that takes 15-30 minutes of your time, but only once. Once you're identified as a time waster, you're blacklisted.
I switched banks because they used an india CC (Score:5, Interesting)
Real opportunity is cross call center scamming (Score:1)
Someone works at the the bank call center, say, and then records details to pass on to a scam center. The Scam center now knows all sorts of details to make the scam much more effective. And targetted.
I am an Indian living in th US and I do the same (Score:2, Interesting)
... for any bank with CC outside the US because I am afraid of identity theft.
That's nothing (Score:1)
When a massive American building fleeces thousands of young Americans it's OK as long as the building is called a university...
Easy Spotting (Score:1)
Not just USA citizens. UK too, but same source in (Score:2)
Good Return Rate (Score:5, Interesting)
That's not too bad a return rate for a scam.
Therefore the scamming will continue.
Re: (Score:2)
The billing system of $US TELEPHONE COMPANY$ ? Of course they know where the calls are originating : at a privately-owned multiple line switchboard in downtown Queens (insert name of low-rent business district of choice ; I'm barely even confident that "Queens" is somewhere near New York ). Upstream from that, the billing system doesn't know.
You could a
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
"We own this house."
No you don't. Try not paying your municipal/county taxes and we'll see who actually owns your house.