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China Government Privacy

China's New 'Social Credit Score' Law Means Full Access To Customer Data (insurancejournal.com) 83

Posted by EditorDavid from the tracking-without-cookies dept.
AnonymousCube shares this quote about China's new 'Social Credit Score' law from an insurance industry magazine: "Companies are also required to give government investigators complete access to their data if there is suspected wrong-doing, and Internet operators must cooperate in any national security or crime-related investigation."

Note that China has an extremely flexible definition of "national security". Additionally computer equipment will need to undergo mandatory certification, that could involve giving up source code, encryption keys, or even proprietary intellectual data, as Microsoft has been doing for some time.
The article suggests businesses like insurers "will likely see the cost of complying with this new action as a disincentive to conducting business in China."
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China's New 'Social Credit Score' Law Means Full Access To Customer Data More

China's New 'Social Credit Score' Law Means Full Access To Customer Data

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  • Will the "free world" be next?

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      China is freer than GB, and freer than most of the "West". Enforced reduction in religion has allowed technocratic elite to operate without hampering and has put China ahead of all other nations.

      • Re:GB is doing it, China is doing it (Score:5, Interesting)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Saturday December 03, 2016 @04:58PM (#53416617)

        Enforced reduction in religion has allowed technocratic elite to operate

        Over the last 35 years, China has experienced faster economic growth than any other country in history. This demonstrates the strength of authoritarianism, as technocrats have been about to manage the country based on sound principles rather than what is democratically popular.

        But things are rapidly changing, and beginning to show the downside of authoritarianism. Xi Jinping is sidelining the technocrats, stuffing the central committee with his cronies, encouraging "socialist thinking", and promoting a personality cult. The real test will come in 2022, when he is legally required to step down. Will he? Or will he insist on retaining power "for the good of the country"?

        • Re:GB is doing it, China is doing it (Score:4, Interesting)

          by lgw ( 121541 ) on Saturday December 03, 2016 @05:30PM (#53416785) Journal

          Over the last 35 years, China has experienced faster economic growth than any other country in history

          Only if ghost cities count as economic growth.

          This demonstrates the strength of authoritarianism, as technocrats have been about to manage the country based on sound principles rather than what is democratically popular.

          Right - things people actually want, and will buy and use, are democratically popular. Economic "activity" involving makework projects that benefit no one except the technocrats, and those willing to game the system, has grown by leaps and bounds.

          It's all bullshit. Outside of some tech companies that are actual capitalist successes, it's all the world's biggest bubble.

          Consumers know what they want and need better than any central planner. Thus is ever was, and thus it shall ever be.

          • Sorry but no. Let's not be dogmatic about this, shall we? Authoritarianism really can outpace free societies in economic growth.

            When the objective is clear, as in when your population haven't got basic appliances or sufficient housing, it's much more efficient to take an engineer's approach to the problem than allowing every tom dick and harry clutter up decision making with their combined ignorance and stupidity. Look at e.g. Singapore. Autocracy is what propelled it upwards out of the marsh it was in.

          • Only if ghost cities count as economic growth.
            They planned them well and then filled them with many thousands of potential ghosts.

            It's all bullshit. Outside of some tech companies that are actual capitalist successes, it's all the world's biggest bubble.
            You have to add the restaurants that feed over a billion people -- that's something.

            Consumers know what they want and need better than any central planner. Thus is ever was, and thus it shall ever be.
            I remember the Pet Rock. I remember Truck Nuts. Oxycontin

        • Over the last 35 years... This demonstrates the strength of authoritarianism... But things are rapidly changing, and beginning to show the downside of authoritarianism.

          Funny, I thought the downside of authoritarianism was shown during the period immediately proceeding the 35-year one you mentioned. Did the Chinese (or any other government, for that matter) learn nothing from the Cultural Revolution?

    • 'Note that China has an extremely flexible definition of "national security"."

      Like any state doesn't. Pretty well almost anything that embarrasses the government or makes the state look bad is included, which is a pretty low bar.

      It's sad when a social institution - whether it be a nation, the local society of hairdressers and aestheticians, or the church - is considered more important than people, particularly when justice is involved..

    • If there was a smell sensor on my computer google would figure out how to use it too. They know everything.

    • China is just trying to catch up with the GB Snooper's Charter.
    • Do you really think the NSA hasn't already created your social score, based on all you digital data available?

  • What cost? The companies shouldn't care one way or another. The "cost" will merely be passed on...

    • Which makes the price rise slightly for goods produced in China relative to regions which don't have these laws. That's the important bit. Just like states in the US do with favorable tax rates and incentives, countries also compete for international businesses. Each new bit of overhead or regulatory friction is a disincentive for businesses.

  • Maybe only to snowflake internationalists that grew up in the west and simply assumed the US Constitution applies everywhere.

    Newsflash: America is the biggest safe space there is. Everywhere else, it can get literally Orwellian.

    • eh, the USA isn't spying on its citizens?

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 )
        The US government doesn't rate its citizens on a scale of social credit. Nor does it censor news media or social media. Nor does it condition its citizens' financial or economic prospects based on its surveillance of them. Moral relativism is fine and dandy in a left-wing bubble but when it tells you that the Chinese government is morally indistinguishable from the US government, you've got yourself a bit of a problem.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by iggymanz ( 596061 )

          do-not-fly list says you're full of shit.

          U.S. government has a bigger body count of innocents than China.

          • Just 'cuz you're itching to get on that list doesn't mean everyone else is on there. The only interaction almost everyone in the US has with the Federal Government is when they file their taxes every year. That's it. The only tabs the government keeps on you is the taxes you've paid. That's it. They don't care what you post on facebook or twitter or how you vote or what you say. They have no machinery to even keep track of such things. Once it gets to the realm of physical violence, then they're interested,

        • It's true that US authoritarianism isn't as bad as China -- but it's not for lack of trying.

  • I thought we liked China to treat their citizens like total shit, because we get cheap electronics that way.

  • for a while there i thought it was Trump's suggestion.

    • Trump is too busy starting a war with China by talking to Taiwan.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Jzanu ( 668651 )
        In the future war between Fascist Russia and all of its neighbors, where will the USA ally itself? China links to former Russian tributaries through OBOR also linked to the EU. The EU and USA are linked through NATO, the EU and UFM are linked through Turkey, and Turkey links to the USA through NATO. Will Trump have the courage to ally the USA with China, or will he slouch and bid to his master Putin's call?
        • To answer that, I would have to look at the map of Trump's foreign businesses again. I'm sure the answer lies in there.
        • Russia isn't that different from the USA, they make natural allies just like including Germany and Japan in NATO was a natural move after WW2. It's always Us against Them, this is just more of the same.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by gtall ( 79522 )

            BS, the U.S. has allies all over the world, Russia has squat except the near abroad countries they've bullied into subservience. No one trusts that little sawed off runt, Putin and his ego...except an ignorant git like Trump.

      • Re:whew. (Score:4, Informative)

        by ScentCone ( 795499 ) on Saturday December 03, 2016 @03:00PM (#53416131)

        Trump is too busy starting a war with China by talking to Taiwan.

        Yeah, that's the last straw. Taking a congratulatory phone call from a foreign leader is totally going to push China into attacking us. But the Obama administration selling Taiwan billions of dollars worth of sophisticated weapons systems, that's nothing that the Chinese would worry about.

        Do you even listen to yourself?

        • It's not my fault there is great international scrutiny on everything Trump does, that's just because of his personality. I guess life isn't fair.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        Well, in my opinion, Trump is an ignorant git. He probably thought he was calling mainland China.

        However, the fact that China gets their bloomers in a twist over a phone call to an island they do not yet own shows just how far the West has slid to accommodate China and its alleged leaders. Last we heard, their alleged leaders weren't elected, they lead nothing except their own dreams of conquest. To have a free island of free Chinese shows them up for the bullies they are, and their Party-Government as ill

  • Privacy will go. That's the inevitable future (you can say "inevitable" with Agent Smith accent).

    The same wonderful combo: digital information that is not lost and Internet that spreads it freely faster than you can say "entropy" brings you newest Holliwood action masterpieces on the same day of premiere and it also will make _your_ information available to any suitable buyer.

  • The article suggests businesses like insurers "will likely see the cost of complying with this new action as a disincentive to conducting business in China."

    If there is profit to be made, they will do business in China, whatever the rules are. Remember Lenin's quote about capitalists ready to sell the rope that will be used to hang them?

  • Wall Street Journal on implementation progress (Score:3)

    by whh3 ( 450031 ) on Saturday December 03, 2016 @09:06PM (#53417711) Homepage

    I know it's behind a paywall, but the WSJ had a very interesting article about China's implementation of Social Credit:

    China’s New Tool for Social Control: A Credit Rating for Everything [wsj.com]

    They are apparently having a significant amount of trouble actually implementing the system because of the sheer amount of data.

    Apparently Ant (div of Alibaba) is playing a pretty big role in this, too:

    A credit-scoring service by Alibaba affiliate Ant Financial Services—one of eight companies approved to pilot commercial experiments with social-credit scoring—assigns ratings based on information such as when customers shop online, what they buy and what phone they use. If users opt in, the score can also consider education levels and legal records. Perks in the past for getting high marks have included express security screening at the Beijing airport, part of an Ant agreement with the airport.

  • I'm a big fan of China in many respects, and I think their central government very often get things right - more so than many in the West. But as many sincere fans, I am not just uncritically accepting everything they do as right. In this case I reserve judgement; many things depend on how this is implemented and how it is used.

    In my view, it was always obvious that something like this must turn up at some point. The unregulated internet was a lot of fun in the early years, certainly, but it is no longer al

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