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Munich Court To Try Facebook's Zuckerberg For Inciting Hatred (dw.com) 179

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Deutsche Welle: A Munich court has opened a lawsuit against Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg, German media reported on Friday. News outlet "der Spiegel" wrote on its website, before the main weekly magazine's Saturday release, that it had obtained court documents charging the social media mogul with incitement to hatred. Zuckerberg is reportedly being charged alongside Facebook CEO Sheryl Sandberg, chief Europe lobbyist Richard Allan, and his Berlin counterpart Eva-Maria Kirschsieper. According to Spiegel, the complaint comes from the Wurzburg-based attorney Chan-jo Jun. In the suit, he accuses Facebook of tolerating appeals for murder, threats of violence, and Holocaust denial, among other things. Laws regulating hate speech in Germany are extremely tight, with most Nazi symbolism and racist propaganda strictly forbidden, a legacy of Germany's role in World War II. Although Facebook is obliged to remove illegal content from its site, it has repeatedly garnered hefty criticism for the time it takes to do so.
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Munich Court To Try Facebook's Zuckerberg For Inciting Hatred

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  • by avandesande ( 143899 ) on Friday November 04, 2016 @06:25PM (#53216031) Journal
    Fun watching the SJWs eating their own.....
    • Good (Score:5, Funny)

      by frovingslosh ( 582462 ) on Friday November 04, 2016 @09:04PM (#53216819)

      It is about time. He has certainly incited a lot of hatred in me.

      Thank you nice peaceful Germans for confirming that my hatred doesn't indicate anything wrong with me, it is caused by Zukerberg. Get him!

  • Oh Germany... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TiggertheMad ( 556308 ) on Friday November 04, 2016 @06:32PM (#53216067) Journal
    The fact that that Zuckerberg is Jewish makes the fact that he is being named in a German lawsuit about hate speech an holocaust denial particularly deliciously ironic.
    • Re:Oh Germany... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rmdingler ( 1955220 ) on Friday November 04, 2016 @06:44PM (#53216129) Journal

      The fact that that Zuckerberg is Jewish makes the fact that he is being named in a German lawsuit about hate speech an holocaust denial particularly deliciously ironic.

      Yes. Likewise, it is rather devilishly clever how fast freedom of speech can be called into question when it is renamed Hate. After all, hate is in the eye of the beholder, and everyone has the right to be offended. Too.

      Christ, we are a mess.

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        The fact that that Zuckerberg is Jewish makes the fact that he is being named in a German lawsuit about hate speech an holocaust denial particularly deliciously ironic.

        Yes. Likewise, it is rather devilishly clever how fast freedom of speech can be called into question when it is renamed Hate. After all, hate is in the eye of the beholder, and everyone has the right to be offended. Too.

        Christ, we are a mess.

        The correct response in most cases is to tell the offended person to grow up and get the fuck over it. Words don't really hurt you, only your own overreaction to them gives such power to whoever says them.

        I personally accepted long ago that with several billion people in the world, I'm not going to like the opinions and beliefs of all of them. Also, plenty of them won't like my own thoughts. None of this gives me the right to censor anyone. Understanding that is part of growing up - so is understanding

        • Excellent response. Your points are not just rhetorically good ones, they are philosophically as well.

          I'm still watching the video of the Hillary supporters who harassed, mocked, and abused the homeless woman in Hollywood who had been sitting there with a sign supporting Trump. Its so sickening that liberalism has been hijacked by the most disgusting sociopaths who represent that antithesis to actual liberal ideals.

        • by mvdwege ( 243851 )

          Words don't really hurt you, only your own overreaction to them gives such power to whoever says them.

          That's exactly what the German-Jewish middle class thought in the Weimar Republic. How many of them survived?

          When you grow up and move out of your parents' basement, you may find out that life is a tad more complex than you think.

      • Christ, we are a mess.

        If only people could be convinced to leave religion completely out of this. The world is either supported on the backs of four elephants, themselves resting on the back of a turtle, OR it is being held up for eternity by the deity Atlas. So the Elephantians, asking the Atlassians what happens when Atlas needs to pee or gets itchy on his back, are subject to "hate speech" charges? I don't know about you, but for me it's impossible to take either Atlassians or Elephantians seriously, and the harder they try t

        • If we take care that the spread of scientific progress continues in this incredible age of free information, the dilution of religious influence will continue.

          If we revert suddenly to dark times and dictatorships, whether due to technology's backfiring, natural disaster, or a geopolitical shift, we will once again embrace the narcotic of superstition.

          *Swearing in religious terms or foreign languages is not intended to be considered an endorsement of either. Christ!

    • His personal ancestry doesn't absolve him of fault for company operations contrary to German law. Facebook must comply in a timely manner not shift responsibility.
      • by ogdenk ( 712300 )

        If it were me, I'd just shut down local operations in Germany, block '.de' and let the Nazis that believe in thought crime and want to suppress free speech stay in their safe space.

        • If it were me, I'd just shut down local operations in Germany, block '.de'

          It is not just Germany. Most European countries have laws against hate speech, and many specifically outlaw Holocaust denial.

          Americans often assume that the free speech guarantees in our Constitution are the default, at least in Western countries. That is not true.

          • by ogdenk ( 712300 )

            They aren't the default, and that's a problem. I'm not willing to have my rights online crippled to make overzealous douchebags across the sea feel better. Fuck'em.

            • by Mashiki ( 184564 )

              Better watch out, there's plenty of screwballs here on /. that believe that your rights should be restricted or suspended because it hurts their feelings. Maybe you can join myself and others in the "defense of speech equals Fascism camp."

            • Fine, just don't ever do business outside of the US, which is the only country in the world with an innate right to free speech.

              • by ogdenk ( 712300 )

                I can't help it if most subjects in other countries enjoy tyranny in order to never have their feelings hurt or core ideals and/or religion challenged. I certainly wouldn't waste money on developing tech to stop people from voicing their opinions, no matter how insane they are. Even if they're Nazis or terrorists. I prefer bigots be loud and proud, that way I know who they are and they can't claim they're being victimized or oppressed.

                Suppression of free speech and freedom of the press is straight up tyr

  • Germany can not sue because the German government itself is criminally negligent because they can block it if they want to. Hence for Germany to sue Facebook, Germany must also sue itself. The German government chose not to block Facebook and hence the German government itself is liable. Facebook for all of it's many, many faults is quite simply an open broadcaster of the content created by others and it is the Germans along with the German government who choose to import that content as well as creating it

    • Re:Sorry NO (Score:4, Interesting)

      by duke_cheetah2003 ( 862933 ) on Friday November 04, 2016 @06:45PM (#53216137) Homepage

      Germany can not sue because the German government itself is criminally negligent because they can block it if they want to. Hence for Germany to sue Facebook, Germany must also sue itself.

      You must be one those people who thinks gun manufacturers are liable when someone shoots someone else with a gun they made.

      Do you also think car manufacturers should be liable for automobile accidents?

      What about refrigerators? Is it the manufacturers fault when your food spoils? No wait, it must be the electric company's fault for not supplying enough power.

      This broken logic has no place here.

      • Except that OP's logic is the same as that being used in the suit against Facebook. The ridiculousness of the logic is OP's entire point. Facebook didn't commit, incite, or in any way encourage the hate speech. All they did was offer a platform that allowed others to engage in it. They even actively moved to remove the illegal content, they just (allegedly) didn't do so quickly enough. The suit is holding Facebook responsible not for anything they did, but for something others did with their platform.

      • You must be one those people who thinks gun manufacturers are liable when someone shoots someone else with a gun they made.

        You should only sue a gun manufacturers when the gun DOESN'T work and it's actually not your fault.

        "Gun control means hitting your target." -- I told that as an offhand comment once to a self-proclaimed hippy, and she thought that was like the funniest thing she had ever heard; she laughed about it for over 10 minutes and chuckled for even longer.

        OTOH, I was serious, and wasn't laughing for any of it.

    • by Knuckles ( 8964 )

      Germany can not sue ...

      Quite irrelevant since Germany does not sue. From TFS, "the complaint comes from the Wurzburg-based attorney Chan-jo Jun"

    • This article appears to be written by someone who understands neither the German legal system nor (probably) the language.

      Germany has public prosecutors, I think the US has the same system. This lawyer is in private practice. He has essentially gone to the law-enforcement authorities with a complaint. I looked up a German-language source and it is the second time he has tried this, the first one was in Hamburg last year and it was kicked around for a year before being dropped for "formal reasons".
      btw, th

    • Germany must also sue itself. The German government chose not to block Facebook and hence the German government itself is liable.
      That is nonsense. There is no legal basis to block Facebook, ever heard ... cough cough ... about free speech? And Germany as a state is not responsible for FB not removing hate speech when it gets asked to do so.

  • This happening to FB is ironic in that they advocated for the hand over, but this is how the rest of the world is going to treat freedom of speech online.

    It was shameful shameful thing we did handing off the control to the UN.

    This is a good example of where our state department ought to stand up for an American company. The message to Germany ought to be

    "Screw you guys its an American website, Zuck can publish whatever the hell he wants and if you try to come after him or his assets we would be forced to r

    • by phantomfive ( 622387 ) on Friday November 04, 2016 @06:41PM (#53216117) Journal
      Freedom of speech is a necessary pre-requisite for freedom, so it's worth mentioning:

      The reason Germany has such strict anti-speech laws is actually a tool of oppression from the allies. They didn't want to have another uprising like Hitler leading into World War 3 (also part of the reason the US has military bases in Germany), so they took measures to ensure Hitler's specific type of propaganda would be oppressed.

      So Germany is not an example to the world here, but neither were the laws intended to be.
      • If they don't want another Hitler, they shouldn't focus their efforts on propaganda, but on heavily regulating methamphetamines.

      • by rastos1 ( 601318 )

        The reason Germany has such strict anti-speech laws is actually a tool of oppression from the allies.

        The reason Germany (and most of EU) has such strict anti hate-speach laws is that people are idiots and can be swayed to do terrible and idiotic things. We have seen it first hand.

        Btw, don't think that can't happen in US. The difference between US and EU in this, is only in where they draw the line.

    • by ogdenk ( 712300 )

      "Screw you guys its an American website, Zuck can publish whatever the hell he wants and if you try to come after him or his assets we would be forced to retaliate against German citizens and German companies with assets in the USA. If you don't like his website, firewall it"

      If it were me, I'd just shut down local operations in Germany, block '.de' and let the Nazis that believe in thought crime and want to suppress free speech stay in their safe space.

    • If the handover of ICANN turns bad, DNS will be replaced by an alternative technical solution. Such solutions are already worked, based on DHT and blockchain storage.
  • but of course (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ooloorie ( 4394035 ) on Friday November 04, 2016 @06:38PM (#53216101)

    Laws regulating hate speech in Germany are extremely tight, with most Nazi symbolism and racist propaganda strictly forbidden, a legacy of Germany's role in World War II.

    One of the primary characteristics of the Nazi regime was its suppression of free speech and control of the media by the German government. It is depressing that, rather than defend free speech, Germans have learned nothing from their history.

    • by Knuckles ( 8964 )

      It's a result from the post-war period when there really was no other choice, and nowadays free Nazi speech would simply be too annoying for no gain, and no, it would not be a gain for free speech.

      • and nowadays free Nazi speech would simply be too annoying for no gain, and no, it would not be a gain for free speech

        Free speech is a concept, it doesn't get gains. We do, unless we subvert the whole idea. And when you ban people talking about things, they only talk about them in secret and deprive you of the opportunity to keep tabs on their stupidity.

        Germany's banning of even discussing Nazism is foolish at best.

        • Germany's banning of even discussing Nazism is foolish at best.

          How about you first learn what exactly is banned in Germany before you judge?
          Discussing Nazism is NOT forbidden. Forbidden is glorifying the Nazis and the Third Reich or denying facts like the existence of concentration camps or that the Holocaust happened.

          • Discussing Nazism is NOT forbidden. Forbidden is glorifying the Nazis and the Third Reich or denying facts like the existence of concentration camps or that the Holocaust happened.

            What is forbidden is whatever the people in power want to forbid, and what they usually forbid is things that threaten their power.

            In Germany, it's generally illegal to insult the head of state, as well as to refer to politicians, police, and other government officials as "Nazis" or "fascists".

        • by Knuckles ( 8964 )

          What @moronoxyd said in the other reply. Nothing worthwhile comes from people denying the Holocaust, and not having that does not undermine anything

    • Everyone learned how effective the Nazis were so naturally they want to follow their example. Pretty obvious when you see Jews calling for the government to confiscate all weapons, ignoring the groups that fought Hitler with the limited weapons they could find, but glorifying those who passively were victims of government.
    • They seemed to have learnt a lot. From what I remember the fall of Nazi Germany was a war, not an uprising of the people. The lesson from back then was that suppression of free speech worked and worked well.

    • and never repelled. So if you want to complain about not learning, look at UK, USA, France.
      • and never [repealed]

        Yes, and for about 20 years, Germans have had the option to repeal such laws.

    • One of the primary characteristics of the Nazi regime was its suppression of free speech and control of the media by the German government.
      Suppressing free speech on one side and having anti hate speech laws on the other side have nothing much to do with each other.
      We have the same free speech laws in Europe (not only Germany) as you in the USA, with one minimal restriction: holocoust denial and hate speech are prohibited. Display of Nazi symbols are prohibited.

      It is depressing that, rather than defend fre

      • We have the same free speech laws in Europe (not only Germany) as you in the USA, with one minimal restriction: holocoust denial and hate speech are prohibited. Display of Nazi symbols are prohibited.

        You don't know what you are talking about. German restrictions on free speech are extensive, and different from much of Western Europe, and radically different from the US. Germany has criminal laws against insults, defamation, and slander. Germany has special criminal laws against defaming politicians, express

        • Germany has criminal laws against insults, defamation, and slander.
          No, we have not. That are civil laws just like in the USA.

          Germany has special criminal laws against defaming politicians,
          No we have not. The only criminal law in regard of that is insulting foreign politicians.
          expressing contempt towards Germany, its constitution, or its symbols.
          That is completely wrong.

          Defaming the deceased is illegal
          Yes, as it is in most countries.

          Blasphemy is illegal.
          No it is not.

          No such criminal laws exist in the US.

          • Germany has criminal laws against insults, defamation, and slander.

            No, we have not. That are civil laws just like in the USA

            Criminal libel is defined in Art 185-189 of the German criminal code, as well as Art 90 (defamation of the state), and Art. 166 (defamation of religions). Art 130 criminalizes "defaming segments of the population".

            Seriously, you need to get a clue about what's going on in your own country.

            • Regarding 185 there you might have a point. However it is not executed, unless the person who got "insulted" causes a case. In other words if a policeman is standing right beside me when I insult you, no one would charge me unless you do. In other words it is dead law ...

              The other paragraphs (186-189) are not libel related. And ofc I'm completely ok with them.

              Then again: A90, did you read the last paragraph? As long as the President is not going to court, there is no case. And then again: you claimed "any p

              • Art 166, is not balsphemy as you claimed before, it is about defamation of religions ... face palm.

                It's generally considered a blasphemy law [wikipedia.org].

                Then again: A90, did you read the last paragraph? As long as the President is not going to court, there is no case.

                And that affects the truth of my statement... how?

                And then again: you claimed "any politician". It is obviously clear now it is only concerns "head of states".

                Sorry, wrong again. Defamation of the German head of state is covered under Art 90. Defamation

                • Of course that are different paragraphs/articles, facepalm.

                  About what again are you nitpicking?

                  You claimed "germany has laws against insults towards politicians". Which sounds like a general rule towards all politicians.

                  I pointed out: you are wrong. So? Now you want to weasel around or what?

                  The only positions that are protected by law are heads of state, our own state and others.

                  And yes: I'm fine with that. If you are not, that is your problem, not mine.

                  Why that makes me a Nazi is up to you.

                  Regarding the "b

                  • You claimed "germany has laws against insults towards politicians". Which sounds like a general rule towards all politicians.

                    Well, yes, that's what it is. [gesetze-im-internet.de].

                    You have to accept that some countries have different ideas.

                    I fully accept that Germany is different from the US, which is why I like using Germany as a negative example for what the US shouldn't do.

                    Which I admitted in my first post.

                    Yeah, sure, whatever. [slashdot.org]

                  • You seem to believe that "free speech" is an universal right, we believe "performing your religion" is an universal right.

                    What is at issue is not what people "believe", but what states actually deliver; sadly, both freedom of speech and freedom of religion are seriously curtailed in Germany.

                    You think "free speech" (what ever that means in your country)

                    I encourage you to read up on it; you might learn something.

                    • As I said before: our free speech is the same as yours.

                      It is restricted in 4 cases only and most people agree with such restrictions. I most certainly do.

                      Your believe that you have more freedom just because your restrictions are not coded in laws but in court cases is simply idiotic.

                      sadly, both freedom of speech and freedom of religion are seriously curtailed in Germany.
                      They aren't. You can perform any religion you want ... unless it contains practices e.g. rape or human sacrifices which are obviously aga

                    • As I said before: our free speech is the same as yours.

                      We have already established that that is false, with half a dozen German laws criminalizing various forms of speech.

                      Your believe that you have more freedom just because your restrictions are not coded in laws but in court cases is simply idiotic.

                      What is "idiotic" is that you don't understand the fundamental difference between a country that can throw you in jail just for insulting someone vs a country that cannot do that.

                      They aren't. You can perform any

                    • We have already established that that is false, with half a dozen German laws criminalizing various forms of speech.
                      No, we have established that it is true, except for those few laws you cited. Facepalm.

                      What is "idiotic" is that you don't understand the fundamental difference between a country that can throw you in jail just for insulting someone vs a country that cannot do that.
                      Actually this did not happen since decades. So?
                      And actually, you can be punished in your country for the same things, as soon as t

                    • You are a credit to your country.

  • Dude, you got just about *everything* wrong in that headline. The only correct thing is "Mark Zuckerberg".

    No trial. The Attorney Generals of Munich are investigating against Mark Zuckerberg. Big difference.
    And it's not for inciting hatred. It is for enabling "Hate Speech". Big difference.

    If it ever comes to a trial, I wonder how well this holds up in court.
    I doubt it will come to a trial.

  • If I were Zuckerberg, I would remind the German fascists that he is Jewish and then block all German Facebook accounts, instead showing a big banner saying that Germany hates free speech and/or Jewish run businesses and put up the name and office phone number of the Attourneys General for everyone to complain to.

  • You can hate Facebook and Zuckerberg all you want, but this particular idea won't do anyone favors...
    I mean, if something like this passes, next will be YouTube, Google in general, Reddit, Twitter, Steam, almost any other social network, forum, or virtual space where people gather to comment.

    The problem here is not about hate speech, but about defining what exactly is an acceptable time frame for removing offending content on portals that have millions to billions of users. It's a technical limitation. No c

  • The Holocaust obviously never happened. If it really did happen then why would IBM name computers after the guy who sold counting machines to Hitler? And why would Sony let said computer compete on Jeopardy?

    The Armenian genocide never happened because Turkey a US Ally and fellow NATO member said so.

    Darfur never happened because the UN itself said the government of Sudan didn't have an official policy of Genocide.

    Stalin was a US Allie. Good ole Uncle Joe as FDR affectionately called him fighting the good

  • The last thing sharp that came out of that country was spouted by that Hitler dude. And he didn't matter in the long run, either.

  • I started learning a little German recently and apparently Zuckerberg translates to Sugar Mountain and now every time I read anything about Facebook I hear Neil Young.

    With the barkers and the colored balloons, of course.

  • by mvdwege ( 243851 ) <mvdwege@mail.com> on Saturday November 05, 2016 @04:58AM (#53217851) Homepage Journal

    Really, if you ban nudity faster than you can say "b00b13s!" but leave outright hate speech and incitement to violence up, then you shouldn't be surprised that people actually start holding you accountable.

    You either police your userbase, or you don't. If you do it halfway, you leave the impression you're taking sides, at best.

    And for the libertard crowd who shout "Freeze Peach!"? You're free to create your own Facebook clone. What right do you have to force your idea of perfect user policies on Facebook, according to your own philosophy?

    • by Raenex ( 947668 )

      And for the libertard crowd who shout "Freeze Peach!"?

      Oh look, you're using "hate speech" and disparaging two groups of people, those who value liberty and the mentally disabled by using a word derivative of "retard". Please report yourself to the nearest education center.

      You're free to create your own Facebook clone. What right do you have to force your idea of perfect user policies on Facebook, according to your own philosophy?

      Yes, legally, at least in the United States, Facebook can set their own policies. Most people who advocate for free speech aren't trying to legally force Facebook to do anything. They're, gasp, using their free speech to argue against Facebook's politically biased policies.

      Facebook would like

  • Sealand, November 5 2016 -- In a unanimous decision, the Supreme Court of the Kopimist Nation of Sealand ruled both RIAA and MPAA to be terrorist organisations, allowing for the rendition of any known RIAA/MPAA members, its agents or close associates "located anywhere in the universe, by any means necessary" to the Kopimist Nation of Sealand to answer for their crimes. The third organization on trial, BSA, was spared the terrorist organisation designation by the Supreme Court, however the racketeering-relat

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