Ask Slashdot: What Are Anonymous Ways To Pay For Goods and Services? 212
Long-time Slashdot reader mspohr submitted a report a couple of days ago from Richard Stallman via The Guardian, which argues that we should be able to pay for news anonymously. "Online newspapers and magazines have come to depend, for their income, on a system of advertising and surveillance, which is both annoying and unjust... What they ought to do instead is give us a truly anonymous way to pay." In response to that report, an anonymous Slashdot reader writes: There was a recent article posted here on Slashdot about Richard Stallman and his attempt to make paying for online content anonymous. The corollary to that question is: What are the remaining ways to pay for stuff -- in the "real" world and online -- that are truly anonymous? Even cash can be tracked, but what about other methods? Have we completely given up on anonymous payments? No more anonymous/numbered bank accounts, no more pre-paid/virtual bank cards in Europe (just happened recently), for that matter no more prepaid phone numbers (you have to register the number in Europe)? What is left after we had let the politicos run rampant with forced registrations of all payment services?
Cash... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Well that and barter.
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Not a lot of places take barter in the US. Though cash works at almost every store I've walked into when the price isn't up into the thousands. I have used a cashier's check to purchase an automobile before, and nothing on the check identified me, although to buy an auto you still have to provide ID.
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The bank can link the check number back to you account. The check itself doesn't identify you, but it's not anonymous.
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Peeps...pay in Peeps.
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Actually there is a lot of bartering in the US. The problem is most of the time the consumer who has little vs someone who is rich and has everything that the average joe has already. But if wou are dealing person to person or business to business there is a lot more bartering going on. As it is a nice way to distribute their less liquid assets.
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As noted in the Original article. Cash is not very anonymous. I'm not sure how anonymous, but every bill has a unique serial number that can be used to track it if it is involved in a crime. Does anyone have any familiarity with how often the numbers are logged or looked at? If the government wanted to they could require that all bills from cash transactions be logged out and in of banks so that the only way to anonymize cash would be through some 3rd party scheme ( which would probably be made illegal).
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The only way.
That's cute AC.
Now smile for the camera.
As in the 4,208 of them you'll be passing on the way to pay for your goods with your "anonymous" cash transaction.
Being able to move in this world anonymously is a dead concept unless you plan on moving to the Alaskan wilderness to live off the la...oh wait, they have a camera crew there already. Forgot about that TV show. Nevermind.
TL; DR - You're delusional.
Re:Cash... (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't function in todays society anonymously
Nirvana fallacy. There are degrees of anonymity. You fail.
First all the people who think their lives are so important that people will be lining up to spy on their mundane existence need to get over themselves.
You're a short-sighted moron.
First of all, while the probability of a 'normal' person being targeted is low, it's not nonexistent.
Second, 'normal' people taking measures to protect their anonymity/privacy helps provide cover for those who do truly important work, such as: Journalists, activists, lawyers, dissidents, political opponents, etc. Otherwise, anyone who takes such steps would be immediately suspicious.
Third, even if an actual human doesn't target you, automated systems might. An automated system might decide to add you to to the no-fly list or similar, for reasons completely incomprehensible to you. As law enforcement automates more and more tasks, mistakes like this will become increasingly common. It's already happened in a few cases that innocent people have ended up on these lists, and that might have been done by humans; imagine how bad faulty software will be.
Fourth, many people consider privacy and anonymity to be desirable in and of themselves, even if you would never be harassed by the government if you didn't have them. It's none of your business.
Re:Cash... (Score:4, Insightful)
First all the people who think their lives are so important that people will be lining up to spy on their mundane existence need to get over themselves.
That's not what people think. Some people remember the McCarthy era, when seemingly innocuous events in your past could be used against you. Did you give money to a charity that sent food to America's allies in the second world war? Better hope those allies weren't Russian, and if they were then no one finds out about it or your career can be ruined if you're in the way of the wrong person. Back then, it took a lot of investigative work, but if everything is recorded and indexed then you're just a database query away from having a list of all of the things that someone has done the next time that someone decides to introduce a Committee for Unamerican Activities or a Committee for Public Safety.
Other people are concerned more about aggregation. I'm not interesting, and you're not interesting, but when you start to aggregate information about you, me, him, her, and so on, then you get a lot of information that can be used to subtly manipulate political opinions. It's hard to think of many people you'd trust with this kind of power, and the people who are collecting it are probably not on the list.
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Or just build a Farraday cage around your house and cut all the wires leading out.
Sexual favors (Score:2, Informative)
Barter sexual favors
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that only works when you're in your 20s..
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You could sell things to little old ladies in return for favours right up to your 50's.
Re:Sexual favors (Score:5, Funny)
Barter sexual favors
Do you have any idea what forum you're on?
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If payment can't be made anonymously then first, "They" still know that so-and-so gave you money and second, prostitution is illegal.
barter works for me (Score:3)
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I need to do this.the next time I travel to Chicago. Ammo is cheap and plentiful around here. "Wanted, new car, have case of ammo".
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especially with ammunition. .22LR is gold.
Silver bullets are more useful, especially against Weres
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How is barter anonymous? They may not know your name, but they sure know your face and possibly other information. Or are you bartering by placing items at some random location at different times, hoping the other party actually leaves the items at the location?
And that can only work for goods - I don't know how it's possible to barter services anonymously.
Or maybe people have changed the meaning of what 'anonymous' means?
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You might be interested to know that there's a funny name for you too: "Victim."
the more guns you have, the more likely you are... (Score:1, Insightful)
You might be interested to know that there's a funny name for you too: "Victim."
Oddly, statistics show the opposite: the more guns you have, the more likely you are to die by being shot.
Most of that, of course, is suicide-- having guns around turns a brief bad moment into a permanent problem for somebody else-- but even subtracting that, gun owners are more likely to be victims than non gun owners.
(the non-gun owners are likely to back away from a confrontation. The gun owners are somewhat more likely to walk into one.
But "Whitetrash gun nuts" and "victims" are overlapping categories.
Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are (Score:4, Informative)
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Right. Gun assisted suicide is probably the method of choice when they are available, but the real cause of suicide is suicidal tendencies. There are still quite a few relatively easy ways to kill yourself, even without a gun.
Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are (Score:5, Informative)
But those ways aren't used nearly as often. and they're not nearly as lethal. Some of the most common means of attempting suicides have a success rate of around 5-10%. Very nearly 70% of all successful suicides are with a firearm. Not the number of attempts mind you, but the number of successes. All those other "relatively easy" ways to commit suicide are very often unsuccessful, and that means those people have a chance to get help. Firearm suicides are successful just about 90% of the time, which means a gun owner having a very bad day might be dead when if they didn't have ready access to a gun, they'd still be alive. And if they're still alive, they are very unlikely to die of suicide later.
High-gun ownership states have suicide rates just about double that of low-gun ownership states.
Oh yeah, people who attempt suicide and are unsuccessful are unlikely (less than 10%) to die by suicide later. But since only about 10% of gun-related suicide attempts survive, it's too late for them. Now put all that together for yourself.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/m... [harvard.edu]
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/m... [harvard.edu]
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/m... [harvard.edu]
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So if other methods aren't as lethal as a firearm, wouldn't you want to maintain access to firearms to a) provide a means for suicidal people from maiming themselves severely and permanently, b) allow them to ease their suffering in as humane a fashion as possible?
If people are going to try to kill themselves for real, they're just going to do it. Reducing the margin of error and making it easier seems like the more civilized way to do this, don't you think?
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Let me ask that another way: If you had a depressed loved one who was suicidal, would you give them a firearm? Remember, only a tiny fraction of suicides are terminally or chronically ill
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Almost any tire seller has nitrogen to fill your tires with. Breathing pure nitrogen is a surefire painless way to die.
BAN NITROGEN NOW!
(yes, my eyes are rolling)
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I don't want to ban guns. I've been a gun owner for over 35 years. They should just be harder to get. Like nitrogen.
Why don't you see if it's easier to get pure nitrogen or a handgun?
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Most of these methods takes planning. Someone who is thinking about killing themselves in time even if just a few minutes can cause them to change their mind.
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If it works for you, I've no objection.
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You were doing really well until you dropped that red herring.
Fewer than 2% of suicides are due to terminal illness.
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The government clearly has a role in preventing people from harming each other (and in that area, you have a reasonable although not bulletproof argument that gun availability is causing signifi
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There is no state in the US where intentional suicides by drug overdose outnumber suicide by firearm.
You're bullshitting.
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You have to follow the thread to understand. Do you require every conversation you have to only be on one topic? And when have Slashdot comments EVER been about sticking slavishly to the topic in the story?
Quit your bitching. If you want to do something about it, you should call the Slashdot Moderation Support 800-number and give them hell. Be sure to give them
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Canada is a relatively healthy society, compared to the US. Plus, they have universal health care, which means universal MENTAL HEALTH CARE.
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However health care in Canada isn't as advanced as it is in the US. Also there is far more red tape to try to get treated.
I am not saying that the US is perfect however there are pluses and minuses to both systems.
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Wow, that sounds almost unbelievable. I would have thought that the result would have been just the opposite. Oh wait, it was [ncjrs.gov]. As multiple studies have shown [nih.gov].
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False. Canadian data show that suicide rates are *not* affected by easy access to firearm, which remains constant post gun control laws.
Does the Canadian data show that's the case in Canada or everywhere?
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You might be interested to know that there's a funny name for you too: "Victim."
Oddly, statistics show the opposite: the more guns you have, the more likely you are to die by being shot. Most of that, of course, is suicide-- having guns around turns a brief bad moment into a permanent problem for somebody else-- but even subtracting that, gun owners are more likely to be victims than non gun owners. (the non-gun owners are likely to back away from a confrontation. The gun owners are somewhat more likely to walk into one. But "Whitetrash gun nuts" and "victims" are overlapping categories.
An Australian study after the big gun ban showed that even having a gun in the house was associated with a higher incidence of suicide, even if the gun wasn't the method used. Something about the psychology of gun owners or the environment in which they're living?
Re:the more guns you have, the more likely you are (Score:5, Insightful)
statistics show the opposite: the more guns you have, the more likely you are to die by being shot.
That's not what they show.
Most of that, of course, is suicide-- having guns around turns a brief bad moment into a permanent problem for somebody else-- but even subtracting that, gun owners are more likely to be victims than non gun owners.
I bought a handgun not because I wanted to go shoot people, but because I was worried about being harmed by a specific person who was a relative. Calling the cops would have been useless, and only exacerbated the situation. People who are more likely to be attacked are more likely to choose to own guns. If I'm risking a stabbing, it doesn't matter if I risk losing control of my gun and getting shot. It would hardly leave me worse off than being shot. It takes fifteen minutes to even get to my house and it's on a winding road so going faster in an ambulance is not an option. If I wind up on the financial hook for a life flight, I might as well just commit suicide because I'll be in debt for eternity.
Guns prevent crime every day, but just doing so is illegal ("brandishing") so the law discourages an accurate accounting.
I don't care if guns make suicide "easier". Sorry, but I really don't. So a few more people kill themselves. Whoopee. Taking the guns out might reduce the suicide rate slightly, and in exchange we get to be surrounded by more people who don't really want to be here. If we want to reduce suicide rates substantially, we're going to have to make some serious changes to our society. I'm all in favor of that, but removing the guns won't produce the change you're looking for. It will produce a whole lot of them which you aren't, though.
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statistics show the opposite: the more guns you have, the more likely you are to die by being shot.
That's not what they show.
Uh, that's exactly what the parent poster's links show. Care to back your assertion up with something besides, say, assertion? Let me quote the abstract from the first link:
"The analyses found positive associations between gun availability and gun suicide rates and no evidence of displacement to other methods."
Frankly, I'm not going to bother reading the second link if you can't be
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Wouldn't the statistical number of people who were shot which selected from among only those who were shot be 100%?
A statistical measure of the percentage of people who were shot who own guns isn't necessarily flawed on it's face. I'll grant that taken on it's own, it's not very meaningful. However, if the percentage of gun ownership among shooting victims is higher than the percentage of gun ownership in the general population, you just might have a correlation.
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Or you run a scout camp. Or you are an Olympic target shooter. Or you hunt small game.
Are you going to barter with those things? I don't think you should be handing out ammunition to kids, the target shooter would probably want some but I don't see what need small game would have for bullets of any caliber. Nope, guy was implying give me what I want or I'll shoot you, but that's not a new development and people have been trying to figure out how to do that anonymously for years.
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Or you run a scout camp. Or you are an Olympic target shooter. Or you hunt small game.
Are you going to barter with those things?
Wouldn't see why not. I've done, though I always require the person to have a carry license from the state I am (FL) and we sign a document stating the transfer is for the people signing the document (and not for a straw sale.) It happens all the time at gun shows. Hell, I want to barter my ATI Titan 45ACP for a 9mm (under the same conditions obviously, no FL CCL, no barter.)
Sure there are people who are either careless or shady and who would not go through these hoops. But personally, I've never met one.
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Please tell me that you are aware that the AR platform is available in at least half a dozen different calibers, of which .22LR is one. Please tell me you knew that.
A lot of folks (even gun owners who limit themselves to handguns for home defense) equate the AR platform with the 5.56×45mm Armalite AR-15 and comparable variants/clones.
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The mass daily shootings in the US are perpetrated by people who cannot be mentioned in connection with those terms. Please be very careful with your thoughts and words. Only mention mass shootings perpetrated by media approved individuals. Any attempt to cite facts that violate the narrative will result in your condemnation as a racist, a bigot, and a fool.
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The US doesn't. You only think it does because your TV only stops talking about one shooting when the next one comes along months later.
Agreed.
If he actually believes the US has shootings every day and couldn't see through the bullcrap... how gullible, how stupid, how foolish can you get?
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That is all fine and good... However there gets to a point where someone will have something or some service you want and doesn't need anything you have. So either you go on a complex Nog and Jake episode of Deep Space 9 trying to get things that will get your final goal or if there was a way to get a common trading notes good for all debts private or public.
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It has it's uses. There was a job-add posted on a local LUG a few years back by the owners of a major strip club chain offering lifetime VIP access in return for designing them a new website with video-streaming.
A Couple of suggestions (Score:2, Insightful)
Here are a few ideas as to how you pay for something anonymously:
1. Cash (never truely anonymous unless you get someone else to buy it for you or wear a mask, disguise or something!)
2. Visa Gift Cards (may require a shipping address in which case you might want to get a disposable post box or use a friend's house)
3. Bitcoin
However, an interesting point tied to the transaction is how do you receive goods anonymously?
In person: Get someone to receive it for you, wear a mask or disguise
Via shipping/delivery: g
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Here are a few ideas as to how you pay for something anonymously:
[...]
3. Bitcoin
Bitcoin is not anonymous.
Anonymous cryptocurrencies are developed, but Bitcoin is not one of them.
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1) "Auditable" doesn't mean the same thing as "personally identifiable". You can absolutely say that account FOO sent 4.57BTC to account BAR at 11:05PM last Thursday. That has no bearing on the real-world identity of the transaction participants - From that information, tell me, who owns FOO and BAR? Did Grandma send me a birthday gift, or did Kim Jong Un just buy the plans for an Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator?
2) In common usage, most people only care about the "we
I just fax them cash (Score:5, Funny)
Cup of Noodles or Smokes keep Bubba's penis at bay (Score:2, Funny)
so there's that
Amazing nobody has answered the question yet (Score:2, Informative)
1) Buy a prepaid visa with cash
2) Use a library PC to create an Amazon account
3) Ship the merchandise to an Amazon Locker.
Monero (XMR) is the most private payment method (Score:2, Interesting)
Monero (http://getmonero.org) is the most private existing cryptocurrency. It is similar to Bitcoin but based on an entirely distinct codebase (CryptoNote). It uses ring-signatures to obscure who is sending the payment, stealth addresses to obscure the recipient, and "Ring Confidential Transactions" to obscure the amount being paid. Soon it will use i2p to hide the IP address of the sender.
Monero is mostly traded on Poloniex.com but can also be acquired for Bitcoin on http://shapeshift.io or using the decen
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Anyone who creates a truly anonymous cryptocurrency (one that even law enforcement/intelligence agencies cant track) will be a huge target. Governments of all sorts wont allow an untraceable method of moving money around the world to exist, it would hurt their interests too much.
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Monero (http://getmonero.org) is the most private existing cryptocurrency.
Not quite. It's one of the most private ones.
It is similar to Bitcoin but based on an entirely distinct codebase (CryptoNote).
This should already ring a bell -- it's based on something else. There are a few other CryptoNote coins, which are no less private. Some of them have technical advantages, like being much faster to update the local blockchain. In addition, there are other privacy-oriented cryptocoins which have nothing to do with CryptoNote.
Monero's advantage is having a large developer/support base. IMHO, Monero is like the Microsoft of privacy-oriented cryptocoins, with lots
By supporting it financially (Score:4, Insightful)
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You can support your local newspaper by actually buying one.
My local newspaper [record-bee.com] is a festering turd which exists only to help maintain the status quo in this redneck shitbrick little hole of California. The local high mucky mucks are attempting to gentrify or depopulate the county (they don't care which) after literally taking money as part of a deal to take prisoners and mental patients in the seventies. They deliberately populated this mudhole with loonies and psychos and now they aren't happy with how it turned out. If I actually want any real news I have to visi
Anonymous Payment Equals Money Laudering (Score:2, Troll)
The biggest problem with mass anonymous payment is that it will facilitate criminal transactions. The people most to watch would be the people receiving those payments ie electronically stealing that money and then anonymously paying themselves. Want true anonymous services, do it for free, do it voluntarily and no money need change hands.
Re:Anonymous Payment Equals Money Laudering (Score:5, Insightful)
True, but individual human privacy should always win over war on criminals. There are other ways to catch criminals; there is absolutely no need to put on file all transactions made by citizens.
I'm getting so tired of all that "security" theater going on to excuse more and more data collection. My favorite these days is the "give us a primary key to merge our datasources across the net" by the name of two-factor auth and phone numbers.
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How about when politicians steal billions and starve millions or corporations cheat on taxes crippling social services or organised crime or terrorist organisation or mass bribery in government. Privacy or mass death a tougher question to ask and answer.
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The use cases are narrow but legitimate (Score:2)
The bad part about lack of anonymity in our transactions is that Big Data actually gets us some reasonable legal use cases for privacy like why should my credit card company and everyone they share data with know what kind of porn I buy or what books I read or whether I go out to lunch often and who knows what kind of automated algorithms farther down the chain might do with that info like deny me employment surreptitiously.
I think unfortunately the cat is out of the bag in terms of protecting that kind of
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The bad part about lack of anonymity in our transactions is that Big Data actually gets us some reasonable legal use cases for privacy like why should my credit card company and everyone they share data with know what kind of porn I buy or what books I read or whether I go out to lunch often and who knows what kind of automated algorithms farther down the chain might do with that info like deny me employment surreptitiously.
We all need to admit that the privacy war was lost long ago. But we have plenty of use cases for all the Big Data too. So instead of ranting about privacy, we need to change laws to make everyone who tracks us give us copies of all that Big Data in real time and in a useful (i.e. machine readable) format.
Cash in a brown paper envelope (Score:5, Funny)
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Woosh, sensitive clod! Whatever is more than the starting amount for the next day ($150 sounds reasonable, spread across $20s, $10s, $5s, $1s and assorted change) gets dropped in the safe on-prem. Every so often an armored truck picks up the safe compartment and puts an empty one in its place. Cash is not the Orwellian dystopic supervision you portray it to be.
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Bull Sperm (Score:2)
I make all my questionable purchases using bull sperm. It's like liquid gold.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi... [bbc.com]
Bury the Lede (Score:2)
The Obvious... (Score:2)
It has to be said (though granted, I do not know yet if it has actually already been said)...
Cash, grass, or ass.
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A three-second Google search reveals... (Score:1)
Solution: Zcash (Bitcoin-like alternative with Zero-Knowledge Proofs; Immune to whitelisting/greylisting/fascistlisting) [z.cash]
Snowden: Anonymous ‘Zcash’ Could Solve Bitcoin Surveillance Risks [bitcoin.com]
Because Charities and non-profits are the worst (Score:1)
I made a contribution to an organization I like and added a note that I didn't want them to call or release my name. It was with a check and didn't include a phone number. They looked up my phone number and started calling me for donation. What I found particularly irksome is that they proceeded to sell or exchange my name and phone number to dozens of other organizations and I was getting calls every day from people begging me for money. Because of this I don't give money to many charities except when
5-finger discount (Score:2)
Anonymous (if you do it right) and saves you money at the same time. There's the moral dilemma, of course, but if you're paying for something anonymously you must be a terrorist anyway, so...
If you need to be anonymous... (Score:3)
Well if it really is that big of a deal...
Rest stops, gas stations, and bars sometimes have those little dispensers for condoms in the restrooms (so no fear of being on camera). Just drop in a few quarters. I don't know why that's so embarrassing anyway. If you're buying them, it means you're the one getting laid, not the cashier.
hard currency (Score:4, Informative)
You know, that paper money you referred to as cash isn't hard currency; it's fiat currency.
Let's hope the faith we have in the government continue unabated.
---
Government was a lot like a religion, but lately it felt a lot closer to a cult.
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My cash is made out of plastic.
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If the government collapses you'll have bigger problems than worrying about whether advertisers know you subscribe to the NYT.
If the US government is going to collapse, you'll be able to cash out long before the currency becomes defunct. Typically when that happens a country has already adopted the currency of another country, whether legitimately or by de facto. If things in the US get bad enough, they'll just start using imported Euro notes for purchases.
Although the US is a long way off from this.
As for buying things anonymously, its not that there aren't ways to do it, there's heaps with cash being first and foremost. Th
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If the US government is going to collapse, you'll be able to cash out long before the currency becomes defunct.
No, only a percentage of us will be able to do so, because our money has been loaned out by the bank multiple times. Only 1/that multiple people will be able to cash out. Actually, it's worse than that, because you can expect most of the people with the most cash to find out first, and withdraw their money first, thereby leaving both the average and median person to suck the hind teat, which will be empty.
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It's worse than that even. The rest of us who lost everything will vote to confiscate your foreign currency for the common good. Yay Democracy!
Yeah, I was just thinking about bank bailouts. What we did there was pay the banks to create the current housing crisis in which there are multiple empty homes for every homeless person in the country, in exchange for nothing.
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Cash? Ever heard of it? You can exchange goods and services for it, and i cant be easily tracked digitally unless they scan each bill.
I believe the OP means "over the internet". Obviously, if you walk into a store with cash, you're relatively anonymous, (discounting security cameras, of course). The OP seems to live in the UK or EU where anonymous, pre-paid debit cards have been discontinued.
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There's this magical thing called "cash back" that's been around for ages. And I can personally guarantee that walmart cashier isn't writing down the serial # on that twenty before they hand it to you.
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Laundering? Like going into the 7/11, buying a pack of gum with your $20 and getting change from the bored clerk?
Truly a sophisticated operation.
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Are you a Stallmanist apologist?
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I mean, come on, guys - smarter than average? WTF?!?!
Believe it or not, people aren't born knowing everything. Sometimes smart people need to ask someone who knows something to share that knowledge.
/. ? Did you not learn calculus in school (presuming that you did) by listening to a smart person shar
For example, what if TFA were about calculus? Then you said something like "come on, guys, don't you know calculus??? You're supposed to be smart!! WTF?!?!" Are you as smart as Leibnitz and Newton that you came up with calculus before you even started posting on