Tor Project Confirms Sexual Misconduct By Developer Jacob Appelbaum (theverge.com) 410
An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: The Tor Project, a nonprofit known for its online anonymity software, says it has verified claims that former employee Jacob Appelbaum engaged in "sexually aggressive behavior" with people inside and outside of its organization. "We have confirmed that the events did take place as reported," Shari Steele, Tor's executive director, tells The Verge. In a blog post today, Steele says that Tor began an investigation into Appelbaum's behavior after several people came forward with allegations of misconduct in late May. In a statement made in June, he said the allegations were "entirely false." He resigned from the Tor Project in May. "I want to thank all the people who broke the silence around Jacob's behavior," Steele writes. "It is because of you that this issue has now been addressed. I am grateful you spoke up, and I acknowledge and appreciate your courage." Steele says that Tor is now implementing a new anti-harassment policy, as well as a process for submitting complaints and having them reviewed. The changes will be put in place this week. Tor also announced last month that it would replace its entire board of directors.
Hatchet jobs aside (Score:2, Insightful)
Tor is backdoored. You can see that from the ease with which the Feds locate sites and users. Thus its one and only use: bringing free, anonymous, speech to people in repressive regimes, its ended.
When a company first sacks someone facing no charges, then hires a PI to confirm their reason for sacking, even though he's not claiming wrongful dismissal. That pretty much tells you that the organization is stuff full of bad actors. They go beyond any allegations and into a hatchet job.
And those bad actors deliv
Re:Hatchet jobs aside (Score:5, Insightful)
I personally know some of the people that came forward, they had no agenda other than stopping a serial sexual predator / harrasser. I was sad when I heard the story break, but not surprised because Jake's an asshole if you're not somebody. Where somebody is defined as a person whose work he can steal, someone to intoxicate and lure into bed, or someone that can enhance his reputation.
Shame on you for suggesting otherwise, and shame on the mods who modded you up.
Whether or not Tor is backdoored or otherwise compromised is a totally different issue. As for something new made by trustable people, Jacob doesn't have the technical ability to do a project like this on his own, he's a charming sociopath that worms his way into the circles of people that can. Good for Tor to give him the boot and cleaning house of the people who turned a blind eye to his misconduct.
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The problem is that the article is poop. It doesn't explain any of this. If you're going to can someone for something, then people want an explanation more nuanced than what is given in TFA. I think they deserve it, and they shouldn't depend on some random slashdotter to provide it. Frankly, the rest of us need this information so that we can make intelligent choices. If they know he's a shitheel but won't tell us specifically how, then they're doing us a disservice.
They can't tell us "what he did" but they
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"I personally know some of the people that came forward, they had no agenda other than stopping a serial sexual predator / harrasser."
That sure as fuck isn't what I'm reading STRAIGHT FROM A SUPPOSED VICTIM'S MOUTH. [twitlonger.com]
Re:Hatchet jobs aside (Score:5, Informative)
Jacob is that you? Notice I am not posting anonymously.
I didn't go into specifics because I wasn't there. There was no hearsay in my post. I've known Jacob since ~2007, so I can call him an ass without it being hearsay. I also did not go into specific details of any one story because they are not my stories, but I know several of the people who came forward and I know their only motivation was to stop Jacob from continuing to abuse people.
Re: Hatchet jobs aside (Score:5, Insightful)
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Tor is backdoored. You can see that from the ease with which the Feds locate sites and users.
Tor is open source, the project just manages the sources. You might be able sneak in some subtle exploits if you're in charge... but if the Feds are finding people it's more likely they've just set up a bunch of fake nodes.
When a company first sacks someone facing no charges, then hires a PI to confirm their reason for sacking, even though he's not claiming wrongful dismissal. That pretty much tells you that the organization is stuff full of bad actors.
Or the project is under intense scrutiny and suspicion so they want to cover their bases.
And that is Jacob.
These "we slept together and he licked my muff and that's rape because I didn't agree before hand he could lick my muff, only share the bed"...
It's about consent, and sharing a bed with someone doesn't give you consent.
Now in many cases that's an indication that they are interested, and in that case you can try to get consent. But just becau
Re:Hatchet jobs aside (Score:4, Insightful)
Tor is backdoored.
No. You don't understand what Tor is or what the vulnerabilities used by attackers are.
Tor is secure. Where people have been located, it was due to bugs on the bundled browser and not following best security practices like disabling Javascript and not using a maximized browser window (to thwart canvas based fingerprinting). But the underlying network itself is secure.
Don't mistake compromised Tor exit notes as flaws in the network. Tor was designed on the assumption that exit nodes would be compromised and are inherently untrustworthy. Even if you use Tor, you still need to encrypt the traffic leaving the exit node because, as the documentation makes extremely clear, the exit node can see everything that passes in and out of it.
Once you understand what Tor is and the limits of what it does, you can see that it is highly effective and has proven secure.
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And in addition, the TOR project explains all the ways you can de-anonymize yourself by mistake while using TOR. One of this things is trusting an exit-node.
Re:Hatchet jobs aside (Score:4, Interesting)
Tor is secure. Where people have been located, it was due to bugs on the bundled browser and not following best security practices like disabling Javascript and not using a maximized browser window (to thwart canvas based fingerprinting). But the underlying network itself is secure.
That or share too much information about yourself or your other online activity or download malicious content. It doesn't even have to be malware as such but say an MP3 where your media player tries to download cover art, any kind of functionality that could lead to non-TOR traffic. Or socially engineer you to visit a popular YouTube video in your ordinary browser using a special URL. It could be they have a exploit on core TOR, but in that case I'm guessing it's in the NSA vaults along with the AES backdoor.
People don't understand the power of profiling and combinatorics. For example say you look at my posting history, I've probably casually mentioned my age a few times - let's say you have my birthday pinned down to a month even though I never said when it was. My sex too in some context, I presume. And I've at one point mentioned my country, my hometown (>150k) and that I used to live in the capital (>600k). If you have a post saying "I'm moving back home soon" that's enough to pinpoint me, if you have access to the right registry.
How does that work? Well you have ~145k registered domestic moves. Only ~49k are between different parts of the country. In total there's about ~9k for my hometown, those are all public statistics. So about (49/145)*9k = 3k long-distance moves to my town, for argument we'll assume all are from the capital. If average lifespan is 80, my month is roughly 1/(80*12) of the total population so ~3 moves of people my age and ~1.5 if you add sex. If soon means the coming month you're down to 1.5/12 = ~1/8. Even with some non-uniformity and whatnot it'll probably be one, at most two.
People don't stop to think about these things, particularly when it appears to happen in "private", but services get compromised. Or are honeypots to begin with. And even if you use PGP or some other secure channel, what used to be a buddy today can be compromised tomorrow. And this gets more and more important as we leave more and more "real world" electronic traces, like that concert you were at - were you also tagged on Facebook? In the past it would have been almost useless information, today a few such tidbits of information can easily lead to just having a handful of suspects to investigate closer.
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That's why I recommend using the Tails live CD. No danger of running anything else or automatic updates etc. Everything goes through Tor, and there is no permanent storage so no trace left after you power off. You still have to be careful, but it eliminates most of the problems associated with running Tor on a normal OS.
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Actually, there is no evidence Tor is backdoored at all. The known attacks have all been explained nicely by verifiable vulnerabilities in other places and by entirely plausible user error. Seriously, stop spreading FUD.
Re:Hatchet jobs aside (Score:4, Informative)
Good people gone, bad people in
Did you even read who the new board of directors is? Matt Blaze, an extremely respected academic cryptographer. Cindy Cohn, the director of the EFF. Bruce Schneier, a folk hero on Slashdot and no friend of the federal government. Stop fearmongering please.
Let's be certain first,.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Ever since gamergate my concepts of fair reporting, harassment, he said she said have been seriously adjusted. There was totally horrible people, saying horrible things, but it seems only one side of the story is ever reported, making people more and more jaded and cynical of the media.
Stories such as Linus specifically having to avoid spending any time with females one on one as he's been "targeted for take down". Situations of outright false claims against people, proven clear and still people write incorrect articles about them, deliberately.
This story may well be correct, however in the very very least, I will no longer blindly leap into "condemn them, silence them!!" mode as is intended. I am particularly skeptical when a "harassment policy" is put in place too, as those have been going a general indicator of people "meddling in the name of righteousness " regardless if there was even a problem in the first place.
Be wise and if you read the article at least try to find multiple sources and preferably the other side of the story. At least GG taught me take stuff on the Internet with again of salt finally.
P.s off topic , I used to see posts whining about how awful Slashdot mobile is, I thought the people were exaggerating. They aren't, it's a warcrime.
Cui Bono and To What End? (Score:4, Insightful)
There is always a reason, though not always obvious. Tor is now shit, because the good people were chased away. Notice that there are no criminal charges anywhere, just allegations and accusations repeated over and over on any media outlet that would print it. Lead developer gone, whole new board being elected, one should be rather suspicious.
Now for the tin foil hat: A whole lot of money and effort goes into taking over a project like Tor, and as we saw with the Snowden NSA leaks it is a global exploitation at least after the fact. China, the US, the UK, and just about everyone else suddenly has no problem finding people on Tor networks. All of those same groups can claim ignorance when the cat jumps out of the bag.
Sometimes it's not easy to see who benefits and a clear goal. That is when you need to look around to see why you are being distracted.
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Notice that there are no criminal charges anywhere,
So? Most human interaction including dumping people is done without the need for criminal charges. People get permanently banned from things simply for breaking the rules of the organisation, and the police and courts need never get involved.
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Tor is now shit, because the good people were chased away.
Complete bollocks. Name some of these "good people" who have left. The project founders and all the major technical contributors are still there, as well as many new ones.
China, the US, the UK, and just about everyone else suddenly has no problem finding people on Tor networks.
Also complete bollocks. The only known instances of this happening were via browser vulnerabilities, not problems with Tor itself. And those vulnerabilities could easily have been mitigated if people has set their browsers up properly, disabling Javascript as recommended.
Re:Cui Bono and To What End? (Score:4, Interesting)
Tor is now shit, because the good people were chased away.
Complete bollocks. Name some of these "good people" who have left. The project founders and all the major technical contributors are still there, as well as many new ones.
Indeed. Methinks that there is a PsyOps campaign running to make people go to less secure alternatives. If you cannot break it, try to make everybody believe it is broken instead.
Re:Let's be certain first,.. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a two-way street. Sure, "targets" like Linus have to be careful, but it's becoming even more difficult for actual victims of male semi-celebrities because they are called liars and sluts on top of having gone thru an unpleasant experience.
Have you seen how people treated the women who made those complaints against Assange?
For some reason when it's tech-related celebrities there's a cloud of immunity and endless waves of defenders that have no more information, just strong opinions. We laugh at people who still defend Bill Cosby, but when it comes to Assange, Applebaum or even Gore it's a different story. It's smear campaigns, NSA operations, corporate greed, etc. It's never a fucking immature asshole who crosses the line.
It's as if in tech there's saints and serial killers, nothing in between. Girl goes to a bar with a guy and guy puts his hands down her pants? He's just "hitting on her", she shouldn't have gone there if she didn't want it. Girl parties with guy, goes home with him, has safe sex with him, then wakes up from a booze blackout to find him fucking her without a condom? She asked for it, she shouldn't have been in his bed if she didn't want to give him a blank check to fuck her bareback while she's passed out. And/or she's a NSA shill.
I've always being very skeptical of the whole "rape culture" thing, the switch rape and all that. Always figured it was people aspiring to some kind of heroic role in a society that has no real issues left. But the more I see the posts here about Applebaum and Assange, the more I'm questioning my own assumptions about how civilized we are.
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As for Assange vs Spooks, that was happening in little ways long before he went to Sweden so the chances of that strange case being mixed up with that are very high.
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Have you seen how people treated the women who made those complaints against Assange?
I have. At least one of those women was beyond suspicious, both of them withdrew their support for charges, Assange asked if he needed to stay for questioning, was told no, left, and was told to come back, etc etc. Even if Assange is a total shitheel, that whole thing stunk to high heaven. It would be shocking if it didn't make people suspicious.
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Thank you for supporting my point. You start by claiming that those women didn't "suffer" or got extradited (which would have never been an issue for Assange if he had faced the charges in Sweden instead of running away) then you ramble on about honeytraps and Afghanistan. It always come back to the smear campaign scenario.
Here's a citation.
The woman, whose name has not been disclosed, said that when the allegations became public she received threats and found it impossible to work.
She said that she was judged in a "gigantic court of public opinion with anonymous judges and witnesses who guessed wildly".
http://news.sky.com/story/juli... [sky.com]
There's also a good article on Slate about this. And many others. All shills and honeypots of course.
You're one of those anonymous judg
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Here's a citation.
The woman, whose name has not been disclosed, said that when the allegations became public she received threats and found it impossible to work.
She said that she was judged in a "gigantic court of public opinion with anonymous judges and witnesses who guessed wildly".
Just how did anyone know who this "Un Disclosed" woman was to threaten her ?
Have a little fucking skepticism. Your brain is more than just dead weight to keep your head in place.
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Combine this with "sex without condom = rape" and all the other contorted femi-nazi horse shit involved in this case, and you have to be blind to not get that something is afoot.
If you agree to purchase a car on the basis that the transmission works, and it doesn't then you've been defrauded. If you agree to have sex with someone on the basis that they wear a condom, and they don't, then you have been raped. The only question at hand when that topic arises is whether she consented to the act in the moment. If a woman can withdraw consent at any time, it stands to reason that she can also grant it. Regretting granting consent after the fact doesn't make it a nonconsensual act on the
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"Sex without a condom" and "sex without a condom while you are asleep after having sex with a condom the previous night" are two different things. I don't know how you figure that she gave her consent while she was passed out but if that's not rape in your book you can be sure I'll never let you date my daughter.
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Where the hell did that come from?
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https://www.google.com.au/sear... [google.com.au]
I actually heard it on here.
Eric S. Raymond wouldn't have a clue (Score:2)
While he's done a few things of note in one area he's a bit of a goose in others.
See also his introduction of the word "Fisking" into the jargon file as an example of how utter full of shit he is at times when he has a political agenda to push - in that case opposition to anyone even mildly critical of Israel, in this case he's definitely been very upset with feminist politics on occasion instead of just ignoring something that's never going to impact on his life in any wa
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Certainly possible he's full of shit, totally. Regardless things happen on both sides of this which is total dogshit lies but it seems only one side is apparently infallible, which is ridiculous.
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Read a few things he's written over the years to remove all doubt, especially the "Fisking" idiocy, but that "targetted" thing is even more ridiculous. Somebody he won't name says an org that no longer exists was going to play James Bond honeypot games? Seriously?
You've been misled by the Lindbergh effect - somebody with fame in one area can push some ideas that are not exactly sane in other areas.
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I never said that, and besides there is only one side here with Eric S. Raymond's claims that day.
Nothing else to see so no other side to call a liar or not.
Read his other stuff and make up your own mind - either fall for it or hone that bullshit detector.
A bit more to quote (Score:2)
Note Eric's fucking huge chip on his shoulder from his wording. Expect bias.
Notice how they didn't rock anything? Life went on and it's a year later. Maybe Eric's blog rant was just another of Eric's blog rants.
If you are going to bring it up again I suggest you mention Eric's name instead of defaming Linus. I thought you were bringing up something new that actually invo
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Only nobody every tried those things and the only source that said it was going to happen is a bit of a biased ranting fruitcake called Eric Raymond - the "fisking" guy, who said he heard about it in an online chat somewhere.
Thus nothing at all to do with Linus who never had to fear for anything like that.
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Sadly once an org gets big enough you have to deal with the fact that some people will steal, some people will bully and others will grope. The policies to deal with all are mostly just common sense and referral to law enforcement unless you have HR people that like to micromanage or empire build.
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What the fuck is "gamergate"? One of the "scandals" that got "-gate" tacked on to prove that any "scandal" that got "-gate" tacked on isn't really a scandal but some pig that has to be dressed up and lipstick'd to be even noticed?
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Re:Let's be certain first,.. (Score:5, Informative)
Regardless of your stance on the situation itself, my point was that it revealed to me just how the media work, they all seem to copy each other,run with the groupthink and any analysis,questioning, critical opinions, in almost ANY capacity are discarded as "hate speech" and the person branded as not with listening to.
I don't particular want to reference it either, specifically due to dismissive replies like yours. however it did appear to be the awakening bell for a large quantity of quantity of people to at least try and investigate things and not blindly trust everything written.
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The box near the door, that's where you may deposit your geek-card on your way out.
Really lousy article (Score:4, Insightful)
That is one lousy article. The name of the guy is the only thing revealed, and that is a journalistic no-no IMO: you don't give the full name unless charges have been proven. By a judge. About the nature of his "misconduct", the article is very vague: it's couched in different terms, but it's never made clear what happened, when, where, in what context and who were the victims. It also focuses on the sexual transgressions, and only gives a fleeting reference to people being "humiliated, intimidated, bullied", without explaining why. I understand there is some sort of political battle that largely includes both sides in parallel, and that is not even hinted at. In short, it's bad journalism.
Re:Really lousy article (Score:4, Informative)
There are a variety of reasons this will never go to court, in part because of Jacob currently residing in Berlin. If you want the full stories, read them here.
http://jacobappelbaum.net/ [jacobappelbaum.net]
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Thanks, that's a lot clearer. There's one clear case of sexual abuse, indeed, and while the rest is probably not criminal, it would be more than enough ground for firing him. He seems to be in desperate need of therapy.
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The situation they are faced with is that their staff are regularly harassed by law enforcement, so going that route is not really an option. The evidence is out there for anyone to evaluate themselves (google his name), and many of the victims have come forward publicly with their real identities.
They can't just ignore this and they can't really take it to the police. FWIW no defence has been offered in the face of multiple, consistent and credible reports. It is what it is, but if you have a workable way
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That's not the issue: I thought the article was flimsy in the extreme. They could at least have provided a link to background information like the other reply did (https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9448003&cid=52596993). But instead, there is only a forest of links with vaguely worded accusations and denials.
If someone has to go to the police, it's the sexual abuse victim, not the organization.
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Not all problems have good solutions, but he is no longer part of the project, the board is being replaced, so those allegedly harassed have got their way.
You say they are all regularly harassed by law enforcement, and that route is not really an option, so now Appelbaum faces harassment from law enforcement and vigilante's, what hope would he have of defending himself if he was innocent.
You cant claim the high ground if you take the law into your own hands.
"Sexual mistreatment"? (Score:5, Insightful)
What is "sexual mistreatment"? I can't find any info in the article, or the link within that was purported to contain more information.
Given that this kind of accusation can permanently prevent someone from finding work in their field, I find these articles--lacking details, with no formal legal proceedings--troubling.
Re:"Sexual mistreatment"? (Score:4, Interesting)
A company doesn't need to wait for formal legal proceedings to terminate someone, particularly if they have an existing set of policies surrounding sexual misconduct.
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http://jacobappelbaum.net/ [jacobappelbaum.net]
The website explains their reasoning for not going to a court of law, which was why the TOR foundation hired a private investigator to confirm their veracity.
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Legal proceedings are not up to a company, but only up to people involved. I worked at a place where 2 employees were caught having intercourse in a spare room. Both were let go for sexual mistreatment despite not being a criminal or legal issue in the slightest. One then sued for wrongful dismissal and lost that case. You don't need to do something criminal to be fired.
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Details here: http://jacobappelbaum.net/ [jacobappelbaum.net]
There were formal proceedings, the Tor Project organization investigated. It's difficult to involve the police because many of its members are regularly harassed by law enforcement and some are wanted in various countries. It's likely that there is a grand jury investigation in the US into Appelbaum himself for involvement with the Snowden leaks, for example. The victims live in different countries too, although there are some in Germany where Appelbaum currently resi
Steele's husband works for the NSA! (Score:4, Interesting)
You do realize (Score:3)
that Tor is a US Government supported project, right? The DoS is a big supporter.
Re:Rule of thumb: believe the man (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a case of hipster he said she said. SJW 'logic' likely applies.
http://jacobappelbaum.net/ [jacobappelbaum.net] This site reeks of typical SJW style faux fear of intimidation.
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This is a case of hipster he said she said. SJW 'logic' likely applies.
http://jacobappelbaum.net/ [jacobappelbaum.net] This site reeks of typical SJW style faux fear of intimidation.
You used the "hipster" word, therefore you concede that you are completely full of shit.
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There were other claims which are still contested, such as the Nick Farr incident. The "victim" came out and said
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What adult in their right mind sleeps in the same bed with another grown person of the opposite sex, then gets suprised to be frisked? Maybe I just wasn't raised the same way.
I should guess you weren't, since the former hardly raised (or raises) an eybrow in certain times and places. Never thought I'd actually ever say that, but perhaps you may be proving the point of people calling for males to be taught to behave in a certain, better way, if you're making such mental leaps as assuming permission to do things that you weren't actually permitted to do, on the basis of your spurious perception?
Re:Rule of thumb: believe the man (Score:4, Interesting)
OP has obviously never backpacked, where mixed gender shared rooms are common.
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I've ended up having to share a room with a female coworker on a business trip (separate beds of course). Nothing untoward happened, no accusations were filed.
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But that's impossible. Everyone knows Slashdot posters are the most desirable of all men? How is it possible that she didn't immediately leap across the space, demand sexual gratification from you, and then inevitably go and tell your mutual supervisor that you molested her in a wanton and depraved manner?
Oh, I forget to mention SJW, so SJW this and SJW that! Women are vile evil creatures out to entrap men and then get them fired!
SJW....
SJW...
SJW .... SJW .... SJW !!!!!
Re:Rule of thumb: believe the man (Score:4, Informative)
If by "rare as bigfoot" you mean "a plurality of studies have found them to be at least 20% of accusations" then sure
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Re:Rule of thumb: believe the man (Score:5, Informative)
Stewart (1981)
Maclean (1979)
Gregory and Lees (1996)
Kanin (1994)
Jordan (2004)
Grace et al. (1992)
Chambers and Millar (1983)
Philadelphia police study (1968)
McCahill et al. (1979)
all rates from 90% down to 18% false. If you extend the floor to 10% then the plurality becomes a majority. The only people pushing the "false accusations don't exist" claim are the same people who support a reversal of the burden of proof, "listen and believe" lynch mobbing, and the mathematically absurd claims that virtually every woman in the united states has been or will be raped.
In other words ideologues who directly profit in money, prestige, and social influence by controlling women through fear.
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Don't try the cowardly weasel trick of suggesting that all cases dropped due to lack of evidence or similar reasons are false claims - a false claim is a claim that has been proved to be false.
Congratulations, this is how lynch mobs work. You have the presumption of innocence backwards, it's the accusers job to prove guilt. You're the one relying on the deplorable and frightening weasel trick of claiming that all non-convictions are simply guilty people that got away.
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> Any other adult? Or just one of the sex you tend to prefer to sleep with?
Should try going camping in the mountains in spring time and forget enough blankets. I lucked out and someone else couldn't find their tent (arrived late, someone else had set it up, kind of funny really) and bunked in mine.
Was not someone I would ever want to have sex with, but let me tell you we spent about 6 hours hanging on to eachother for what seemed like dear life. Seemed like every 20 minutes the night got colder.
Not sure
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Being stupid isn't a license for someone to sexually assault you. But there have been much more specific accusations about Appelbaum's behavior.
http://www.dailydot.com/layer8... [dailydot.com]
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No. You ask; you don't assume there's some unspoken green light just because someone laid down next to you. If you don't get someone's consent and go ahead and grope them anyway, it's absolutely sexual assault.
You don't get a pass on nonconsensual behaviour just because you thought someone near you was sexually attractive. If you honestly think that you should, then you're a big part of the problem. And if you think it's such a fucking hardship to get consent, then I shudder to think of how you've treated a
Re: Rule of thumb: believe the man (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: Rule of thumb: believe the man (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Rule of thumb: believe the man (Score:4, Insightful)
"No. You ask; you don't assume there's some unspoken green light just because someone laid down next to you. If you don't get someone's consent and go ahead and grope them anyway, it's absolutely sexual assault."
I shudder to think of the poor service you've been giving your women. You absolutely never ever "ask".
You touch her hand. You stroke her forearm. You touch her face. You touch your face to hers. You run your hand from her shoulder down do the small of her back while breathing hotly on her neck.
You run your hand over her hip and down the outside of her thigh, then, at the knee, you come up the middle of her hamstring and over her outer buttock to the small of her back. The next down stroke goes right down the middle and your grab her buttocks *hard* and she gasps.
Note that you are constantly measuring her physical reaction and will abort at the slightest hint of apprehension on her part, and you still haven't kissed...
Once you do kiss, it will be amazing, and you will absolutely have consent.
But Jesus Fucking Christ. You never *ask* (verbally).
Well, OK, sometimes you can say, "So, you wanna?", and that works too.
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Re: Rule of thumb: believe the man (Score:4, Insightful)
When you start dating you'll understand that you don't get a signed consent form when you have sex. It doesn't generally work that way.
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Sex without consent is rape. Period. No exceptions.
That is an idealistic fantasy. In real life, it is complicated, "no" often means "yes", and that is especially true the first time a couple has sex. Women have been conditioned to appear chaste, and not too willing. Many women expect the man to take the initiative, and may be offended if he asks them for explicit consent. The first time I had sex with my last girlfriend, she was saying "no, no, no" while giggling and helping me unbutton her clothes. We are now happily married with two kids.
Rule of thumb: not so much. (Score:4, Insightful)
This kind of accusation is usually BS to frame politically dangerous people.
Um. No. Seriously and respectfully ask some of your female friends what kind of misconduct they've experienced in the workplace. You may be amazed.
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This kind of accusation is usually BS to frame politically dangerous people.
Um. No. Seriously and respectfully ask some of your female friends what kind of misconduct they've experienced in the workplace. You may be amazed.
No seriously check up on the scams that this has been used to pull. YOU!! May be amazed.
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Their attitudes rather explain why. They clearly hate women, and it stems from their own fear of women.
For chrissakes all but one of my bosses has been a woman. I have worked with women as my supervisors and women working under me, and women in equal positions. I've never had one accuse me of anything untoward, nor have I ever seen any of them behave in a dishonorable fashion towards me.
Re: Rule of thumb: not so much. (Score:5, Interesting)
The only troublesome events I've had with other coworkers was in some of the management positions I held where I had to take some disciplinary action for tardiness or poor work. Once I had to terminate someone, and I have to say that of all the hard things I've had to do in my professional and personal life, that was just about the hardest thing I ever had to do. The individual was a very nice person, someone who I personally liked a lot, but for a lot of reasons, some of them not their fault, they just couldn't do the job, and after multiple chances, the management team decided they had to go, and I, being direct supervisor, was the lucky recipient of that task.
Now I have seen some pretty deplorable behavior between other workers. I've seen bullying, both subtle and not so subtle, and have seen two coworkers enter a sexual relationship. None of these were my supervisors, and I wasn't their's, so it did not affect me personally, but I'd say that good people and shitty people are pretty much evenly divided between men and women.
The worst boss I ever had was a man, however. A petulant, ill tempered asshole who took out his shitty marriage on his employees, to the point where, after a ten minute session of the most vile berating because she had forgot to make a new pot of coffee, she just ran out the door in tears. She came back an hour later, and actually fucking apologized to that creep, mainly because she was a single mother with a young child, and couldn't afford to be unemployed. That certainly taught me a good deal about situations of relative power and impotence, and while not sexual abuse, was a kind of hostility and abuse where I did see people stick with the job, simply because they needed to pay the bills.
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Next thing that camera would've taken is a photo series of an asshole getting dilated, from an interesting first person point-of-view angle.
Well, of course depending on where I put my finger as I shove it up his rear, that is.
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Re:Rule of thumb: believe the man - Bill Clinton (Score:3)
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A "confirmation" from an internal corporate investigation is worth about as much as my toilet.
On the other hand, for a company/organisation to come out in public with a statement like this is very risky indeed, unless they are able to back it up with substantial evidence. All Mr Appelbaum has to do is take them to court for X million of the currency of his choice; I'm sure there are plenty of no win, no fee lawyers who would take it on, if it had any prospect of succeeding at all. Perhaps he will do so, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.
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They don't want a court involved for the same reason no corporate or private entity wants a court involved; because the court will find the organization was in the wrong, and will find against it. The whole point of having sexual harassment policies and making them apply to everyone from the CEO to the guy that vacuums the carpet is corporate liability for sexual harassment or assault lies solely on the perpetrator. Even where a board or management has been proven to have insufficiently protected employees
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There have been at least a few people willing to go on record as witnesses to his ill behavior.
http://www.dailydot.com/layer8... [dailydot.com]
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How about not having their asses sued off? Strong responses to sexual and other forms of misconduct are often not done out of some sense of decency, but because without a strong response, the victims' next route is to sue the organization, which can be very costly.
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How much is your toilet worth?
Based on his previous declaration, he dug a hole in his backyard.
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It may not be a crime to be bad, but in may still be an actionable offense by one's employer. Employers, particularly where employment contracts are in place, do not have to sit and wait for the police to charge someone, or wait until they're convicted, or even ignore violations of policy because they don't rise to the level of criminal actions, to sack someone.
Whether it's someone sticking his hands down a woman's pants or even just common theft are almost always actions that can lead to immediate terminat
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Oh yes -- the peer police, judge, jury, and executioner. Social control for everybody, all nutters' favourite.
Some people can't control themselves, which is why we have these rules and laws. It's unfortunate, but it's true, and no amount of wishing it away will stop it.
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The blog writer explicitly said they weren't going in to details, but had confirmed to their own satisfaction the veracity of the reports. But there have been a few people willing to go on record to report on what they've seen of Appelbaum's behavior:
http://www.dailydot.com/layer8... [dailydot.com]
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I think we can take their resignation at face value. There was serious abuse in their organization by its most public member and they failed to stop it. The people taking over aren't government stooges, they are well respected and highly competent people like Bruce Schneier.
They did the right thing. Fresh start, get some good people in, free up some of the old board members to work on the technical side.
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Eww. Tell your five bucks they have a foul mouth and that they shouldn't put images in peoples' heads.
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If he assaulted you, you should be down at the police station with wounds you received defending yourself. If you didn't defend yourself, then quit asking us to take your claims of assault seriously.
So, how many women have you psychologically abused into compliance and then raped so far?