EFF Delivers 210,000 Signatures Opposing Trans-Pacific Partnership (eff.org) 101
An anonymous Slashdot reader writes:
"The TPP is simply bad for tech users and innovators," writes the Electronic Frontier Foundation, arguing the proposed trade agreement for the Pacific Rim "exports the most onerous parts of U.S. copyright law and prevents the U.S. from improving them in the future, while failing to include the balancing provisions that work for users and innovators, such as fair use." At a press conference, the EFF delivered 210,000 signatures gathered in conjunction with other activist groups "to call on Democratic Party Leader Nancy Pelosi to stop the Trans-Pacific Partnership from going to a vote during the 'lame duck' session of Congress following the November election."
More signatures are still being collected online, to be delivered on July 21. In a statement, the EFF adds that the TPP also "does nothing to safeguard the free and open Internet, by including phony provisions on net neutrality and encryption, trade secrets provisions that carry no exceptions for journalism or whistleblowing, and a simplistic ban on data localization...to buy off big tech."
More signatures are still being collected online, to be delivered on July 21. In a statement, the EFF adds that the TPP also "does nothing to safeguard the free and open Internet, by including phony provisions on net neutrality and encryption, trade secrets provisions that carry no exceptions for journalism or whistleblowing, and a simplistic ban on data localization...to buy off big tech."
Wrong, evil and going to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wrong, evil and going to happen (Score:5, Interesting)
There is massive public opposition to the TTP and TTIP on both sides of the Atlantic. When people learn what is in it, they invariably don't like it (unless they run a large multinational corporation, like Disney). It still may pass, but I wouldn't bet on it at this point. Even Clinton, the most corporate owned presidential candidate in history, has been forced to say it is a bad deal for the people. Of course, her surrogates at the DNC platform convention have refused repeatedly to formally denounce the TTP, so that says something about what Clinton would do once back in the White House again. Still, it is going to be a big stain on any politician's record who votes for it. There has never been this level of organized opposition to a trade deal. This time, now that there has been 20 years to assess NAFTA and CAFTA, many of the offending politicians may be voted out of office in the next election.
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I should add that there may be lots of opposition to the TPP on both sides of the Pacific, but I haven't heard as much about complaints from the Pacific member states as I have from Europe about TTIP.
Re:Wrong, evil and going to happen (Score:5, Insightful)
I should add that there may be lots of opposition to the TPP on both sides of the Pacific, but I haven't heard as much about complaints from the Pacific member states as I have from Europe about TTIP.
TTIP is seen in Europe as purely an economic issue. But TPP is seen by many Asians as also a security arrangement, binding them into an American led world order, as opposed to the alternative of a Chinese dominated system. It is really too bad that TPP has so many flaws, because in principle it could have been good for both America and Asia.
Re:Wrong, evil and going to happen (Score:4, Insightful)
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It makes me rather angry with the assholes that pushed for all the intellectual property crap
Indeed. Many people in Asia are frustrated because Americans are turning against TPP because it contains so much crap that was included at the insistence of ... America. So Asians caved in to America on nearly every issue, and then America turns its back on the agreement anyway. Maybe the next time we are negotiated one of these agreements, the politicians should listen to the American people rather than just the corporations.
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Well that should be a lesson to them then. Don't cave in to America! They should have pushed back, especially on the IP crap. We regular American voters don't want all that corporate crap, that's why we're all screaming about it being a bad deal. It's only a good deal if you're one of a few giant American corporations; for everyone else it sucks.
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"TTIP is seen in Europe as purely an economic issue"
Eh? By who, not by the people of the EU.
Home - Stop TTIP Stop TTIP [stop-ttip.org]
Over 3 million signatures against, US has got some catching up to do!
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TTIP is seen in Europe as purely an economic issue.
Not by me it isn't - and not by many others who voted for UKIP and Brexit. Just like the EU, TTIP is mainly designed to take effective power away from national governments - which, however imperfectly, represent and are answerable to their citizens - and give it to faceless and utterly unanswerable individuals and corporations.
As far as I am concerned, TTIP is purely a political issue. And it's as important as Magna Carta, Habeas Corpus, trial by jury, or representative democracy - because it threatens to u
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You do realise that you've taken the matter as regards the UK out of the control of the EU, where TTIP will never pass due to strong opposition by the French, and placed it in the hands of a Conservative UK government that is strongly in favour of passing it?
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We have to tackle one problem at a time. The EU was the greater threat, and had to be dealt with first. If the British people cannot see to it that their government rejects TTIP, they don't deserve to retain their independence. But I have confidence that they will.
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TTIP is seen in Europe as purely an economic issue.
No it isn't. It is rather political, mainly because of the insistence of the US in demanding investor-state dispute settlement [wikipedia.org], i.e., that corporations should have the right to overturn laws that threaten their profits. Besides that, there is also the European aversion to GMOs, that would be sold here if TTIP were approved.
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NZ has had large public protests but there is support for it here if we actually got to vote on support/not support I am sure it would be a clear not support winner our democracy doesn't go that far. (we did get to vote on a flag though)
The IP and parmac rules are the most troubling for NZ and the expected returns from TTPA is 1% gpd in 30 years (less than normal growth)
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For instance there was a march through the main street of our largest city last summer, which was held on a Saturday, as most of the protesters had jobs, and were not the usual rent-a-mob crowd.
I happened to be in town at the time, and witnessed at least 25,000 people marching. It hardly got any mention at all on the TV news th
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Surely somebody has posted video of that 25,000 person march to Youtube?
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Keep in mind the leaked response from the Australia government representatives who actually signed the accord, "It was worse than swallowing dead rats". As to why they were swallowing dead rats in the first place, perhaps it was part of the Toilet Paper Protocol (for what it does to countries constitutions) initiation. It looks like they have zero chance of getting it through, they are just making themselves look worse and worse. I think they keep pushing it, even though they know they have lost because the
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There is massive public opposition to the TTP and TTIP on both sides of the Atlantic.
There is noisy opposition from a minority. The vote count does not reflect any opposition. Look at who is winning elections all over the world.
Even Clinton, the most corporate owned presidential candidate in history, has been forced to say it is a bad deal for the people.
Clinton (and all the other top candidates) will say anything. Her past history on the matter speaks much louder than whatever she says on the campaign trai
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On what are you basing that?
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Those are weird guidelines if they're talking about media polls, and to me that's garbage. Your daily horoscope is more accurate than a damn media poll. The weather forecaster is more accurate. If there is a problem, then you recount the ballots. It's up to the voters to demand real paper ballots that can be counted. And no matter bad the fraud might be, if people don't contest the results, not a lot can be done. This the game they choose. They want to push the button and go home and complain for two years.
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Also, Clinton only won when independents were kept out of the voting. Clinton's political machine and the DNC had control over the primaries all the way down to the precinct level. They could pull strings everywhere. Like Bernie said, it is going to take a political revolution in this country to take it back from our criminal corporate overlords.
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Yeah, right. That was as fair as it gets, right? The DNC was helping Bernie the whole way, right? Yeah right.
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There is massive public opposition to the TTP and TTIP on both sides of the Atlantic.
To be honest Europeans don't really care about the TTP, they just really dislike the TTIP.
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In yesterdays news, the promises a politician made prior to being elected turned out to be nothing but a complete lie.
Disney likes there H1B's and with this bill they c (Score:2)
Disney likes there H1B's and with this bill they can use it to wipe any bills that will change the law.
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My guess is you weren't alive in the 70's.
I was, and I call bullshit on that article.
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Forgot to mention, a few years after that Ted Danson declared that in 10 years the oceans would be DEAD. All life - gone, because people were whatever.
Oh, and the "Acid Rain" years, where we were destroying the planet - those too.
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Now that that pesky democracy thing has been nipped in the bud, the Democratic party is doing the right thing. Supporting their masters....
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/... [wsj.com]
Trump is the Iron Fist. Clinton is the Iron Fist in the velvet glove. I'm voting Trump, at least he honest about who he is.
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Now that that pesky democracy thing has been nipped in the bud
People keep saying this and I really, really don't understand it. Donald Trump's nomination - in the face of implacable opposition from nearly every major Republican officeholder, megabucks donor and deep pocketed SuperPAC - is proof that democracy is alive and well, in the sense that the guy who got the most votes won. Against all the entrenched elites and gigabucks influencers, the guy who got the majority of votes from our assembled Joe Sixpacks actually got the nomination.
Personally, I believe he's a bu
Re:The vote is on November 8th (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, and FWIW, both Trump and Clinton oppose the TPP
Trump's opposition to these trade deals goes back decades. Hillary's opposition to TPP goes back to when Trump started using it against her a couple months ago; before then she supported it, just like she supports NAFTA, MFN for China, etc., all of which her husband is responsible for. She'll enact TPP as well, after a suitable amount of time has passed and enough spin has been applied.
Hillary opposing TPP is as fake as a three dollar bill and the only people that believe it are her sycophants.
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Trump opposing anything is as fake as a three dollar bill. You seriously think he'll do anything to block either TPP or TTP if he's elected? If so, I have an Internet to sell you.
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To get anything actually accomplished, an outsider president must be accompanied by an outsider Congress. Vote for whichever of your local candidates has the least corporate support.
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No, Hillary started waffling on the TPP during the Democratic debates. But I didn't find any clear statements against in for a long time after that, and she's one of the authors.
She hasn't be pushing the campaign to take a stand against it. I think she's still in favor of it. I'm likely to vote "Other".
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is it so actually so terrible for democracy that both of them will waffle and follow the popular opinion of their constituents?
Depends on how insane or transient popular opinion is... it can swing suddenly to really dumb shit, and then back in a matter of months. Also it is important to have a good grasp of which popular opinions are abandoned once a holder is fully informed, which can be statistically ascertained through focus groups. You don't want a leader who will order lead put into all water supplies because the public got some crazy idea that lead was good for you, and you don't want a leader who lays uncertainty at the fe
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You have to look at their motivations.
Hillary's motivation is money and power: she'll do whatever makes her richer, with "donations" to the Clinton Foundation or "speaking fees". She's not going to make more money by vetoing the TPP, but she stands to make a lot of money by passing it.
Trump's motivation so far appears to be feeding his ego, not making money from "speaking fees". I don't see how pissing off all the people who voted for him, and reneging on all his anti-free-trade rhetoric, is going to help
Re:The vote is on November 8th (Score:5, Informative)
Hillary's opposition to TPP goes back to when Trump started using it against her a couple months ago; before then she supported it
Actually, she announced this posture in October of last year.
The truth, of course, is actually quite more nuanced [politifact.com] than that, and had little to do with Trump. During her tenure as secretary of state, though, she did her job and represented the view of the administration that was employing her. After leaving that job, in 2014, she started to say she'd reserve judgment until the final deal was announced.
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Chalk it up to different expectations, then. While I'd prefer more honesty from her, I'll take competency and an record that is good on balance.
Re:The vote is on November 8th (Score:4, Insightful)
If Hillary opposes the TPP why isn't she supporting Sander's fight on the topic?
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Oh, and FWIW, both Trump and Clinton oppose the TPP despite the "establishment" of both of their parties supporting it. So there's another reason not to suggest that the Powers That Be will always get their way...
Clinton is full of shit, she totally supports the TPP, don't let her lies tell you otherwise...
25 years of her history say it loud and clear, if you bother to listen. 3 months of being against it because of the election doesn't mean crap.
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Trump is the Iron Fist. Clinton is the Iron Fist in the velvet glove. I'm voting Trump, at least he honest about who he is.
Allow me to quote the average Russian Red Army Soldier in Leningrad in 1941...
"On one side we face an evil, ruthless dictator who will stop at nothing to crush us and get what he wants...
On the other side, we face Hitler, who will stop at nothing and crush us to get what he wants...
I'll pick the one who speaks Russian..."
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Stalin spoke Russian? He didn't even lose his horrible Georgian accent when he was drunk, no Russian would consider what he spoke Russian!
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Just go vote.
Both Donald and Hillary oppose TPP. Gary and Jill also oppose it. Nobody running is for it.
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Both Donald and Hillary oppose TPP. Gary and Jill also oppose it. Nobody running is for it.
Hillary is on record as supporting it many times. When Sanders gave her more of a fight than she expected then suddenly she was against it. If elected, I fully expect her to go back to her previous position of supporting it. The Clintons are easily (and rather openly) bought. If money is behind it she will find a way to justify it. Much like Bill & NAFTA.
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What about this? http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/... [wsj.com]
If Hillary opposes it where is she?
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Hillary is *saying* she opposes it. Her history says that she supports it.
EFFin' copyrights (Score:2, Informative)
This is not only a Democratic pillar, as your conservative candidate [ballotpedia.org] may also oppose this rendition of the treaty.
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Ugh. Sobering link. What pieces of shit these people are!
Even when this thing tries to make them look "good" by putting them on the right side, it shows them to be deplorable people who should not ever hold any policy-making office in government.
Raise wages, increase jobs, yadda yadda. Where the fuck is the talk about civil rights? Basic fairness and justice? These are totally irrelevant issues for the leading Republicrat candidates, and it shows in every damn word they say about almost any issue. All th
Signatures mean nothing (Score:1)
our politicians only listen to dollars.
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I still say we should start a Kickstarter campaign to buy one for the people, I mean, if everyone pitches in... How much can it be?
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Reminder EFF is american (Score:1)
Most people think EFF is for all people, I am Canadian, I was going to donate, but this just proves they are for American interests only, not for interests of Canadians, Europeans, Asians.
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So the tpp somehow helps you in Canada? Or is it that they did something without mentioning Canada?
What is it that makes a statement seemingly so moronic somehow justifiably insightful?
Hillary and TTP (Score:2, Insightful)
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Sorry, but (Score:2)
Is This Just Another Worthless On-Line Poll? (Score:3)
Why Nancy Pelosi? (Score:2)
Petitions are meaningless (Score:2)
Signatures on nothing mostly, since most are electronic.
Anyone who wants to make this a single issue vote in Nov. really needs to wake up. Most Republicans support it.
If congress doesn't pass it before January, it may never pass. Just because Clinton won't oppose it doesn't mean she'll support it on her watch.
Don't make assumptions.
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Why are the "globalist republican scum" his? He pledged support for Trump. Trump is not a real Republican, that's why he has the GOP in fits. Trump is as much in agreement with the mainline GOP as Bernie is with the mainline DNC.
Here's the Scoop (Score:4, Interesting)
The "most onerous portions of USA copyright law" are tiddlywinks compared to the "most onerous portions" of Japanese copyright law (citation Fuji vs. Jazz Camera, Lexmark vs. Arizona Cartridge Manufacturers). Unfortunately, Japan's interpretation of protecting OEM rights internationally ("e-waste" takeback laws were invented in Japan for reasons having NOTHING to do with environmental destiny and EVERYTHING to do with re-manufacture and reverse-engineering) seems to have metastasized in Asia. EFF is on the right side of this, but pulling TPP's finger from the hole in the dike may result in "the perfect is the enemy of the good", ie if the USA was the strongest proponent to protect copyright - Disney lobbyists aside - then it's speculation whether TPP "could have done more".
I'm not an expert in TPP, or what concessions USA made or even brought to the table to protect USA lobbyists. But I'm above average as expert in the fact that trade is generally anti-protectionism, and protectionism is generally anti-trade, and TPP, NAFTA, TAP, etc. are generally trying to remove barriers. Glad EFF is there, but when I interviewed them about Chinese and Japanese law they said they didn't have enough bandwidth to be experts in that, and since the point of TPP is to leverage Japan vs. China (which despite certain idiot comments is NOT PART OF TPP), we had to find common ground, ie try to compromise with Japan.
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Free trade means open borders, unrestricted immigration. That way corporations have to compete on labor as well as goods. If corporations are allowed to move products but people aren't allowed to move, then it really isn't free trade. The EU had the right idea. The TPP, not so much.