DVD Release Delays Boost Piracy and Hurt Sales, Study Shows (torrentfreak.com) 202
One of the reasons that drive people to piracy is the delay in the release of a title's DVD or Blu-Ray in their local market. According to a new academic paper from Carnegie Mellon University, movie fans are finding it increasingly difficult to wait for the official DVD or Blu-Ray to come out. From a TorrentFreak report: Due to artificial delays which vary across different parts of the world, pirates can often get their hands on a high-quality rip of a movie before the DVD is officially released in their country. Researchers have looked into this piracy "window of opportunity," and found that release delays are actually hurting DVD and Blu-Ray sales. "Our results suggest that an additional 10-day delay between the availability of digital piracy and the legitimate DVD release date in a particular country is correlated with a 2-3% reduction in DVD sales in that country," the researchers write.
Really? (Score:4, Funny)
No shit, Sherlock.
Next, are they going to tell us water is wet?
Re:Really? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Up next: Region blocking people from viewing content online causes piracy too! Though water isn't wet, it may be a fine powdery liquid in light of future surveys.
how do they get a rip? (Score:2)
I wonder how they get a rip before the DVD comes out? I'm going to guess that the theaters now get digital copies and those get rippped. I wonder why they can't control that effectively. E.g. watermark every theater's version differently.
Re:how do they get a rip? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder how they get a rip before the DVD comes out? I'm going to guess that the theaters now get digital copies and those get rippped. I wonder why they can't control that effectively. E.g. watermark every theater's version differently.
The DVD from another region is used for the rip. It's a study about the delays between regions, not between theater and home release.
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Aww, cry me a river, the territory protection doesn't work anymore. Boo-hoo. Cry me a river.
Especially since that cries to have their territory protection back coming from companies that demand customs-free imports for their DVDs that they manufacture cheaply abroad.
Customs free for THEM, of course. Not for you. For you, it better be illegal to buy a cheap (non-forged, original) DVD for 1 buck in a South East Asian shop and import it.
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iTunes same day as DVD since 2008 (Score:2)
Or why do they even sell DVDs at all? Why aren't these media companies providing timely streaming or download options?
They are. Availability for purchase on iTunes Store on the same day as DVD release has been around for years. See Apple's eight-year-old press release [apple.com]. DVDs are still made available in the first place because parts of the United States still have satellite or cellular at $5 to $10 per GB as the cheapest home Internet option.
Re:iTunes same day as DVD since 2008 (Score:5, Insightful)
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I hardly consider ITunes an option. You have to have itunes on a computer and then remove the DRM to play on your tv
Or have iTunes on the computer and connect the PC's DVI-D or HDMI out to the TV's HDMI in. Or have iTunes on the computer and connect the PC's VGA out to the TV's VGA in. Or buy an Apple TV [wikipedia.org] device. How is the last of these "not really consumer friendly"?
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Who wants a computer in their living room?
If only tiny computers like a Mac Mini existed! Man, I can't wait until that becomes a possibility.
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Me. I have an old laptop (Core2Duo) next to the TV which runs netflix, youtube, plays DVDs, etc. It's smaller than the Blu-ray player next to it, but the next cast-off laptop will have a Blu-ray drive, and the player goes to ebay.
You don't need Apple products - more and more disc releases include an Ultraviolet download redemption code in the box - unfortunately playback needs MS Silverlight, but that's the cost of avoiding Apple products, if that's your thing.
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iTunes or Amazon why buy it? The drm scheme means in 10-15 years it is useless.
It should be up for rent for a a year or so.
There is some value in buying if you watch the same thing over and over again( like kids movies). How ever I can't watch the same movie to often as I memorize it and get bored. So while I did see the force awakens three times that was do to being a good friend and brother as much as wanting to watch it twice.
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Sometimes it's from the factory making them for the US. So the torrent sites have the real products well in advance of anyone being able to buy it.
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You get the "rip" from friends living in countries where the show was aired or is already available on DVD.
E.g. no one - except die hard fans - is buying a DVD of Game of Thrones in Europe. It simply takes to long to wait. So people rip it in the states. I know guys who fly to New York or Washington just to make a vacation to either buy there or to record it from a video on demand service.
I a new sequel of e.g. GoT is starting, people all over the world want to see it NOW, not in three months or six months.
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It makes exactly zero sense to buy a GoT DVD in Europe. By the time you could possibly buy it, it is virtually impossible NOT to know yet which of the people you knew croaked by the end of the season due to discussions on the internet.
And the same applies to ANY content. I don't even follow GoT but I would be VERY surprised if that wasn't the case. Either release it everywhere at the same time or deal with the consequences. Even if I can't copy the content, why bother buying a movie where the plot matters (
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Because you want to watch/read/listen to the media multiple times and want to support the creators of the content. I regularly download books, music, and a few shows. Those that I really like and know that I will want to repeatedly enjoy I'll buy to make sure that the people can make a living (most important for the music since I listen to a lot of independent artists) and that they hopefully can create more great media in the future.
Spoilers increase enjoyment (Score:2)
why bother buying a movie where the plot matters (i.e. not directed by Michael Bay) when I know beforehand how it's going to end?
I thought spoilers increased enjoyment [npr.org] as well as aerodynamics.
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The rips come from other countries where the DVD has already been released. Electronic copies get round the world faster than the physical disks, particularly when the release dates are staggered around the world for whatever reason some media exec came up with.
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DVD's go out to those who vote for the Oscar's well ahead of the theatrical release. Those get watermarked with text.
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Screeners. [wikipedia.org]
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Digital Cinema films are nearly always encrypted. You can load it onto the server, but it won't play without the decryption key, and that's only good for a limited period. You'd also have to re-render and re-compress the content anyway - DCP format is one file containing JPEG2000 frames, and one or more files containing the audio WAV files (plus metadata in XML files). I've seen DCP films over 180GB, so you'd need to grab the video frames, re-encode and compress them back to an MPEG stream, then re-mux the
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Funny enough, this was proven about 10 years ago, too. Back during the High-Def format wars, there was a format called HD-DVD, which in the end featured NO region coding. None at all.
It completely screwed up the movie industry because when the HD-DVDs came out, people around the world started importing them because they would often be released in North America BEFORE it even hit theatres in other countries!
And being region free meant you just bought an HD-DVD player locally and bought your discs from Amazon
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At least then the quality of the rip is in sync with the quality of the acting, the writing and the story.
Seriously, with most of the movies that come out today, it's hardly a quality hit if it's blurry and shaky.
Re: Really? (Score:2, Informative)
Actually, I wait until the Blu-Ray comes out to pirate. I'm surprised people would want to pirate a dirty cam or some review rip.
So do we.
The dvd/bluray are released in the US, meaning where I live the dvd won't be released here for up to two years and the bluray never.
Since both are out in the US, both are already ripped and up on tpb.
So I download that years before being released here, if ever.
No cams or screenies are involved.
Business Decisions Based on Economics (Score:2)
Re:Business Decisions Based on Economics (Score:4, Insightful)
I can sum up what drives their behavior in one word: Inertia.
Of course, studio owners want to get as much money as possible. However, inertia limits them as they see "the way we've always done things" as the only way to do things. New ways of doing things are scary to them because they might fail while the tried and true methods are guaranteed* to produce results.
* Of course, they're not actually guaranteed to produce results, but in the studio owner's minds they are more rock solid than crazy ideas like same day, worldwide distribution or widely available digital distribution no matter how many studies come out proving the studio owners wrong.
Re:Business Decisions Based on Economics (Score:4, Interesting)
My economics question is why back catalog movies which have been released on disc can't be purchased as downloads. I mean, the movie has already been telecined to a data format and often the DVD press runs for back catalog titles are small and the movie can sometimes become unobtainable at all except as a bootleg.
Which raises the question as to why studios make it so expensive for Netflix or the like streaming companies to gain access to back catalog titles. I'm guessing these titles aren't exactly burning up the sales charts and that a budget licensing deal for streaming on back catalog title to a streaming provider would be revenue they mostly wouldn't expect to get from a DVD. There's a ton of back catalog titles I'd watch on via streaming if they showed up on Netflix but only about once a year do I get the bug to buy a disc, and even then it's often a case where you can't even buy it because the tiny press run is sold out.
Contracts with upstream licensors (Score:3)
My economics question is why back catalog movies which have been released on disc can't be purchased as downloads.
A lot of film producers' hands are tied by contracts with upstream licensors (such as the author and publisher of a novel adapted into a film or the performer, record label, songwriter, and music publisher of music used in the film) or with cast and crew unions whose members work on a residual basis rather than a "work made for hire" basis. Not all such contracts that provide for a home video release also provide for selling downloads. DVD early on had a similar problem with older films whose home video con
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Disney and McDonalds also both take advantage of the McRib sales strategy. People in general are foolish and if something is only available for a limited time, even if it's awful, we're more likely to give in and buy it.
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You need to trace the distribution rights - which studio sold their entire back catalogue to Turner? I can't remember exactly when that happened, but it was long before the DVD era, and that's why there was a "Turner Classic Movies" channel on cable/satellite. I had Foxtel for a little while, and there were more "oldies" on TCM than I ever saw for sale on VHS.
If the studios weren't able to anticipate the sheer amount of money they could make by having their back catalogues available on disc or via streaming
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The thing is, this study only proves a correlation between delays and piracy. But what movie companies do is they increase the delay in countries known to have a high rate of piracy to keep the movies from hitting the torrent sites. They believe that the sales lost in those countries are smaller than the sales not lost due to piracy in the countries the movie is released. Whether that assumption is true is an interesting question, and unfortunately this study doesn't even try to answer it. The correlation i
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This is why libertarianism fails: there is no such thing as a spherical market of uniform density. The players in the market are not acting in rational self-interest, but in a variety of irrational ways, and therefore expecting the Market to sort things out rationally is doomed to failure.
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Megalomania and denial.
No shit Sherlock! (Score:5, Informative)
The "artificial delays" are simply a specific form of artificial scarcity, and we humans always do our damnedest to route around them.
We also *really* don't want to be lectured to about piracy when we're watching a legally purchased DVD, nor do we want to watch ads, (except for movie trailers), in a DVD we've already fscking paid for. But media producers and distributors seem positively addicted to the practice of strapping on a pair of cleats and stepping on their own dicks.
Re:No shit Sherlock! (Score:5, Insightful)
We also *really* don't want to be lectured to about piracy when we're watching a legally purchased DVD
Don't forget that abomination that is region coding. Why the fuck can't I watch a DVD at home that I bought while on vacation in another country?
(and yes I do know about the *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink* region unlocking of the DVD player manufacturers)
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Actually I don't want to see any ads (trailers or otherwise) in anything I've paid for. My time is valuable to me -- it is a very limited commodity that is very difficult to get more of.
This is one of the ways that the pirated product is superior to the legal one.
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Your time is so precious that you can't stand the few seconds it takes to skip (or not) the stuff at the beginning of the disc... yet you are watching a movie... which is really just a waste of time.
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You assume it's easily skippable.
And it gets pretty obnoxious when you throw in a DVD from 1999 and it tries to waste your time with trailers for something that bombed in theatres and was completely forgotten by 2001.
It puts the Ø in UOP (Score:2)
The DVD-Video standard requires players to implement UOP [wikipedia.org], which allows discs to specify that a certain control shall cause the player to display the letter Ø in the corner of the screen for five seconds instead of performing the requested action. It was intended to make copyright notices unskippable, but distributors have abused it to make advertisements unskippable.
Press "Top Menu": Ø. Press "Title Menu": Ø. Press "next chapter": Ø (arrrgh). What's left?
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Also - what is so hard about making trailers a bonus feature on discs? Display a 5-second unskippable blurb inviting purchasers of the legally-distributed content "Hey we included movie trailers as free bonus features" - this removes the annoyance factor, it turns the ads into something marketable, and makes the product less user-hostile, and yet, the ads still get delivered. Everybody wins!
One thing they need to nix is that bogus FBI warning, because:
* Most usenet, torrent, etc. releases prior to t
DVD? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:DVD? (Score:5, Funny)
Laugh while you can monkey boy but everyone knows that DVDs have warmer video than cold looking digital streams or blu-ray!
Like LPs they'll be making a comeback soon enough!
Retro-tech for teh win!
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It's a hipster coaster, all shiny and stuff, to put your drink on while you watch a movie.
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What the heck is a "DVD"?
underwear I think
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It's a physical means of transferring media that you buy which forces you to watch a warning about not pirating content and a bunch of previews every time you put the disc into the player before being able to play the movie. Whereas if you had pirated the movie you could just click on the file and be watching it immediately.
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> It is a physical object that you purchase for a single, fixed price, that contains a digital version of a moving picture, and a perpetual, transferable licence to view that digital version.
Correction:
It is a legally purchased COPY of that motion picture, which you don't have a license to, but do actually OWN. Even the adverts say "Own it on DVD or Blu-Ray today!"
Cut it with the "you only license it" bullshit because it's flat out untrue, no matter how many times you fucks repeat that lie it doesn't cha
ConsPIRACY theories here... (Score:2)
Known in entertainment? Why pirate new movies? (Score:2)
But, I still don't understand NEW MOVIE piracy in developed countries. Sure, I pirate every new GoT episode within hours of the official air date, but it's TV that I watch on a 23-inch monitor where quality doesn't really matter. Same thing with a 10+ year-old movie or cartoons that I watch with my kids. However, when I want t
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What value is there in movie theaters these days? Why maximize revenue for that outdated distribution chain? Nostalgia? Release worldwide the same day on DVD, streaming, and theaters, and then shut up and take my money. If the theaters aren't adding enough value to stay in business, clearly we're not losing much.
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But, I still don't understand NEW MOVIE piracy in developed countries. Sure, I pirate every new GoT episode within hours of the official air date, but it's TV that I watch on a 23-inch monitor where quality doesn't really matter. Same thing with a 10+ year-old movie or cartoons that I watch with my kids. However, when I want to watch something with cutting-edge special effects and sound on my home theater (or any 32"+ TV with separate sound system), dropping the $3 to rent a high-quality edition that is gua
Instead of delays, decrease price (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't understand the delays. Just sell it HIGH right out of the gate.
Make movies something crazy like $60-$80 on opening weekend. Grab all that extra profit while the hype is high and plenty of families with great home theater and 2.5 kids that they don't want to pay concessions for consider it a win-win.
Drop it by $10 or so every month or so, until they're $20 at the same time they're available now.
Why do they hate money so much?
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There's actually a proposal to do this, or something quite similar.
http://variety.com/2016/film/n... [variety.com]
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Yeah, I've heard of this, but it sounds about as appealing as UltraViolet.
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$150 just to be at the table. $50 for temporary (48 hour) access to a movie. I know I wouldn't ever pay $50 for just me to watch a movie. And I'm probably not going to pay that much to "avoid" the theater with my family either. That pricing model seems flawed.
It's not universally appealing, by any means, but it could make sense for quite a few people. In my case, if my wife and I want to go to the movies, it's around $45-50 for tickets, a couple of sodas, and popcorn. Then, if we take a cab, that's another $20. The biggie is child care. It's another $80-100 for the nanny to stay late, plus $60 or so for a car to get her home. So, that's around $200 to go to the movies. $50 would be a bargain. I certainly recognize that we're not typical, but even if the p
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it was already tried (Score:2)
Soderbergh/Cuban did it.
http://www.cnet.com/news/soder... [cnet.com]
There's no word on what the outcome was.
I do agree that there are so many logistical difficulties to seeing movies in the theaters that a large swath of the potential market is excluded by the Hollywood practices.
For two adults you're basically talking about $70+ to see movie if they have to get a sitter for the kids.
On the other hand, family movies are cleaning up on this. Make a movie the adults can see with the kids and the family saves money by ju
Re:Instead of delays, decrease price (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't understand the delays. Just sell it HIGH right out of the gate.
I can't believe we have to have this particular discussion...again. Hopefully studios have learned the lessons of history, so they won't be doomed to repeat them.
Studios tried selling movies that high ($80-$100) in the beginning. Few movies were purchased, but many were copied from rentals. This was a predictable result of price gouging.
When studios lowered the prices to something reasonable ($15-$25), VCR (and later, DVD) movie sales skyrocketed and illegal copying was greatly reduced. Illegal copying then ticked back up after people got fed up with the stupid shit studios put in there to delay showing the movie people paid for (ads, previews for things nobody gave two shits about,etc).
High prices lead to reduced sales, and a large lag time between theatrical release and home release leads to reduced sales. This was obvious to everyone except, apparently, the studios.
The optimum sales revenue will likely be generated by releasing the DVD (few people give a shit about Blu-Ray) either simultaneously with the theatrical release, or sometimes shortly afterwards (a few weeks, maybe).
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Because the system judges movies by cinema performance. That's why direct to DVD has so much stigma.It
just needs one blockbuster to break ranks, but when the studio spent hundreds of millions of dollars making it they won't take the risk. Especially in these days of long running franchises, where a bad movie means at best a reboot and at worst losing revenue from 5 potential sequels.
Piracy is educational (Score:4, Funny)
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2) That's not quite what the science says anyway. The science says: If a studio releases a DVD in region A, but then waits ten days to releases it in Region B they lose 2-3% of the sales. The science simply used the Region A release data and called it the "piracy date" as an anchor point in their study. They have not in anyway proven (or even attempted to prove) that piracy is the actual cause of the drop.
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So which media company do you work for? Just wondering.
Re:I thought you guys said piracy helped sales? (Score:4, Insightful)
Neither is an absolute. Piracy CAN hurt and it CAN help sales.
Burry, shaky screeners are actually more likely to help sales because people want "the real thing" instead. If, and only if, the movie is actually worth seeing. Because that's what the blurry screener does: Give people an idea whether the movie is any good. And given today's movie trailers are usually the whole 2 minutes of what's actually decent in the 180+ minutes of movie, people don't rely on trailers anymore. But if that blurry mess looks like it could be worth seeing "for real", they will grab the money and go watch it.
Of course if what you get as a copy is as good as what you could hope for if you bought the DVD (and usually, considering the bullshit like unskipable ads, trailers and other crap, the value of the bought copy is usually lower than that of a rip to the user), this will absolutely HURT your sales. Because the user already has everything he could hope to get from buying your DVD. Actually, chances are he got more than he would get from your DVD.
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Re: FUCK EUROPE (Score:2, Informative)
Africans had civilisation well before most Europeans unless you subscribe to the idea that aliens built the pyramids, Timbuktu and Greater Zimbabwe.
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Anything south of the Sahara? (Score:2)
Actually it was the Africans such as the Egyptians, with things like their wheeled chariots, irrigation and other things that came from civilization
Granted. But nowadays northern Africa is more closely associated with the "Middle East" brand than with the "Africa" brand. So that narrows the question going forward: What impressive tech or philosophy came out of sub-Saharan Africa before European contact?
Re:FUCK EUROPE (Score:5, Interesting)
Look, I don't necessarily agree with the GP, but your point is just as stupid. Don't pretend that just because Europe has had its shit together for a few decades gives it the right to lord it over the rest of the world. History didn't begin yesterday.
The only reason Europe is at peace now is because it fought a war so unbelievably terrible that it all but destroyed itself. And it had to happen twice in less than a few decades, because they couldn't learn their lesson the first time. WWII might have been avoided if the European Allies had followed Wilson's 14 Points during the peace negotiations following WWI, and during the founding of the League of Nations. Instead, they did exactly the opposite and sowed the seeds of the next conflict with the Treaty of Versailles. Not to mention all the other terrible things that came as a result of the League, such as the Mandate system, which is at least partially responsible for the state the Middle East is in today.
The kind of nonsense you're spouting is basically the "white man's burden", the bullshit justification used by Europe for colonizing and subjugating people around the world. It's fine to uphold the virtues of modern Europe, but don't do so by repeating the rhetoric of the 19th Century.
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are you suggesting that Europe is responsible for delayed DVD releases?
I am Spartakus (Score:2)
are you suggesting that Europe is responsible for delayed DVD releases?
In some cases yes. Spartakus and the Sun Beneath the Sea is the English dub of a French animated series [wikipedia.org]. The original series has been released on French DVD around 2000, but the English dub has never been released on North American DVD.
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International distribution is a tricky thing, especially for stuff that isn't actually produced by the big studios. You have to find someone in the destination country who's willing to be the distributor - to take on dubbing, manufacturing, marketing, etc. The producer in the source country often isn't interested in getting their product out of the country, and they sell the foreign distribution rights to specialists in that area.
Look at Studio Ghibli - their stuff wasn't available in the USA (officially) u
Re:No shit... but, (Score:5, Funny)
Right. Text should be:
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What does one have to do with the other?
We are not talking about making cinema release and DVD release the same date. What this is about is making the cinema releases worldwide for the same day, and making the DVD releases (later) also at the same day. I honestly can't think of a good technical reason why you should not be able to release the DVD in Europe and the US at the same day. Or, better yet, allow people to buy it wherever they want.
Release of films in select cities for Oscar season (Score:2)
What this is about is making the cinema releases worldwide for the same day
A lot of films lack budget to get cinema releases across one country for the same calendar year. Think of all the art films that play for a week in Los Angeles County, California, in December in order to qualify for that year's Academy Awards [wikipedia.org], with intent to open to a wide release the following January.
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Yeah. Sure. Art films are what are hit so incredibly severely by this.
Please.
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Is that necessarily a bad thing?
I have a nice enough 42" Sony LED TV - But it in no way compares to the experience of seeing a move like SPECTRE in the theatre. For me, the theatre is a much better experience.
Re: How about... (Score:2)
Even though the movie itself sucked
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Even though the movie itself sucked
Incorrect.
Spectre is a brilliant film, the best Craig by far, and easily in the top five of all OO7 movies.
Whereas Skyfall could have been any generic "Jason Bourne" action thriller, Spectre was a true James Bond movie.
Craig retained Fleming's literary grittiness that we've come to love, but the quips, one-liners and (small) comedic moments that the films of the past delivered returned.
Craig's performance was stellar - He *owned* the role and played it with
Re: How about... (Score:2)
If you say so.
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FTFY. It's written 007 (double-zero), not OO7 (double-O).
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Usually the next step is to eliminate the part that is of no use to you: Buying the DVD.
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So if countries require films to be exhibited in the official language as a condition of being shown in a country, how do you propose to make dozens of dubs before a film sees one dollar of revenue? And if countries place a quota on imported films to encourage the local film industry, how do you propose to re-produce films with local cast, crew, and sets?
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Yes. Back then they could get away with it because there was no pressure from competing suppliers.
Welcome to evolution, baby! Publish or perish!
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I feel like impatience is the new normal these days.
I personally have no problem waiting for movies or tv shows to come to Netflix or Amazon Prime.
But then, I don't really care about much of the content being created these days either. At least, not enough to pay a premium.
Before Netflix came along, I was the guy buying $2 matinee tickets for out-of-cycle movies.
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And it still took a year after theatrical release to get the 2011 film Hop on region 1 DVD.
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No, but you need one to prove it to someone who stomps his foot and refuses to listen because he doesn't want it to be that way, mostly because he likes it better that way you just shown to be foolish.
I.e. studios.
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...or just make the disc/online version generally available at the same time as the movie release, and save having to pay for 2 rounds of publicity. Cinemas had a point when the alternative was a 20" TV & VHS player with lousy sound and picture. Now, we have 50" high def screens, surround sound and TV shows are being made with cinema production values. Cinemas need to sell the social experience rather than the film.
I'd kinda assume by now that most of the old cinemas that anybody would give a shit abo
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The fact they're not even going to pay for the product doesn't matter.
Wow you didn't even read TFS.
They pay for it if it's available, otherwise they pirate it. That actually shows that they are prepared to pay, what they're not prepared to do is wait.
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The fact they're not even going to pay for the product doesn't matter.
I have money. Where in the United States can I buy a lawfully made DVD of the film Song of the South?
I have money. Where in the United States can I buy a lawfully made DVD of the film Pinocchio and the Emperor of the Night?
I have money. Where in the United States can I buy a lawfully made DVD of the TV series Spartakus and the Sun Beneath the Sea?