Where Does America's E-Waste End Up? GPS Tracker Tells All (pbs.org) 100
The United States produces more e-waste than any country in the world, reports PBS News Hour. But where does this e-waste go? The publication utilized the GPS coordinates in some of the e-waste to find out. Basel Action Network, a Seattle-based e-waste watchdog group partnered with MIT to put 200 geolocating tracking devices inside old computers, TVs and printers. They dropped them off nationwide at donation centers, recyclers and electronic take-back programs -- enterprises that advertise themselves as "green," "sustainable," "earth friendly" and "environmentally responsible." From the report: About a third of the tracked electronics went overseas -- some as far as 12,000 miles. That includes six of the 14 tracker-equipped electronics that e-waste watchdog group dropped off to be recycled in Washington and Oregon. The tracked electronics ended up in Mexico, Taiwan, China, Pakistan, Thailand, Dominican Republic, Canada and Kenya. Most often, they traveled across the Pacific to rural Hong Kong. You can read the report in its entirety here.
Welp (Score:5, Insightful)
"Most often, they traveled across the Pacific to rural Hong Kong"
RURAL Hong Kong, haha -- Even the New Territories can't be considered 'rural' by the most urbanite standards.
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Was wondering about that... HK's population density is astounding - I doubt you could find a beehive with a density that high.
Perhaps they meant some industrial district far enough outside of HK to have some space to dump/recycle/whatever, but close enough to still (sorta) count? Like "the outskirts of the Hong Kong metro area" or suchlike.
Re:Welp (Score:5, Interesting)
See third 'before and after' photo here:
http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/may/10/china-pearl-river-delta-then-and-now-photographs [theguardian.com]
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My take away was that I don't like cities
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. . .
You are looking at a picture that has been intentionally manipulated to make the situation appear far worse than it actually is.
Thats how that article STARTS ... at that point, it doesn't matter what it says or how true it is, its a meaningless article because they're manipulating the truth before the first word is read.
Or you know, its totally fair to use color photos to represent the good and black and white to show the bad . . . thats not biased or unfair or anything.
Yes, its degraded to a horrible
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Perhaps it has more to do with photographic technology of the time period?
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There are plenty of hilly areas unsuitable for development and empty of anything but wildlife. Have you ever been there? It IS rural by urbanite standards.
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Sure have!
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Not surprised so many people beat me on that one, but I was surprised to see it in the first post. App guy must have stayed home today.
I was surprised 2 thirds of it stayed in the US. Great to see so much of the recycling done here!
I am a bit confused why the authors think that electronics recycled overseas wasn't recycled.
And? (Score:1)
Okay, it goes places, and ... what?
It has to go somewhere. The question is what happens then?
And that is the Problem (Score:2)
what should happen is E-Waste companies should have to Document and Prove exactly where the stuff goes (and what happens to it). Fines should be based on amount processed in the past say 2 years (say 50K per ton).
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So... Get ready to keep all your old electronics as it suddenly becomes VERY expensive to have it removed.
...not if you have a shovel and enough property to hide the results on.
On a more serious note, such a rise in disposal costs will create a legal black market of sorts where questions aren't asked, loopholes are exploited heavily, and the price of their service is only nominally higher. You know, like they do with ships nowadays [nationalgeographic.com].
I mean, if you can dump a zillion tons of outdated naval vessel, ditching a truckload of cast-off smartphones is child's play.
Re:And that is the Problem (Score:4, Informative)
What expense?
I throw it out in my trashcan like everything else I have that is waste, and the city picks it up for me for free....easy peasy!!!
Actually, in the NOLA area, if you set it outside the can so it is visible, chances are someone will grab it overnight before the garbage men even come....I get rid of all monitors (even old CRTs), and computers past their prime, etc...and someone grabs them before the trash men come.....I guess that's one form of un-intentional recycling....?
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> What expense? I throw it out in my trashcan like everything else
> I have that is waste, and the city picks it up for me for free
In my city, you're not supposed to throw away large electronic waste. I guess little things like toasters and clock radios are OK, but for big stuff, like microwaves and TVs, they have special pickups. For CRTs, you have to pay a few dollars per.
I also live in a working class neighborhood and a lot of stuff will get scavenged if it's out, which is fine with me. I usually pu
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Maybe the market would respond to that by making more things that can be fixed, upgraded or refurbished and fewer planned obsolescence items that can't.
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Maybe the market would respond to that by making more things that can be fixed, upgraded or refurbished and fewer planned obsolescence items that can't.
STOP with the crazy talk!!
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No, silly rabbit, those changes would have to happen in a totally different market. Not a reasonable expectation.
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In a lot of those places an old computer or CRT monitor would still be used! That is about as green as it gets.
So much of it is still quite useable. Just imagine, say, the computers that suddenly became obsolete when Vista came out, and a computer that chug along hppily on XP ground to a halt (known as Vista Basic fraud)
We are spoiled here, and update a lot - as good consumers. Some folks in some parts of the world are just interested in having something that boots and runs.
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Lots of fairly new ones are thrown out that just need a good cleaning. Between formatting the drive and blowing out the dust, these computers are as good as any built in the last 5 or so years.
My son found a fairly new Dell, it was packed solid with dust bunnies so overheated instantly and probably ran at a couple of hundred Mhz, cleaned it and had a decent computer.
No, they wouldn't be used (Score:4, Informative)
The vast majority of the stuff that's getting sent to foreign countries isn't getting reused -- and for good reasons.
First, if something is reasonably valuable, it's probably being reused in the states (e.g. the Dell/Goodwill program mentioned in TFA).
Moreover, old computers and CRTs aren't that useful in the third world. A cheap, new smart phone is much more useful since it has wireless connectivity and a battery (the phone is probably more powerful than a CRT-era desktop to boot). In many developing countries, you're a lot more likely to have a wireless signal than a wired internet connection. Your desktop also won't do much good if the power grid is in poor condition -- or non-existent (you can charge your smart phone from a solar panel). There's a reason that cheap smartphones are popular in developing countries.
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Pollution is what happens. The e-waste is taken to places where the EPA doesn't exist and the governments do not care about the environment so the corporations can continue polluting the environment. Recycling e-waste is not a green endeavor in today's world. All you're doing is keeping your backyard clean, only to pollute another part of the world and give workers in countries that have near zero protections for workers health problems from working with the e-waste.
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Many of these places are dirt floor existence. I got news for you -- the environment is no friend of mankind. Only our ability to beat it into submission increases the quality of life.
So first ask yourself, dangerous...compared to what?
It goes somewhere without good regulations (Score:2)
Yes, the problem isn't that the waste goes somewhere. The problem is where it goes. That said, the two are strongly connected.
"Recyclers" are probably not shipping this waste somewhere with strict environmental controls; environmental controls cost money to comply with, so it doesn't make much sense to ship to places with meaningful environmental controls. They're not shipping this stuff to Japan, Europe, etc. In principle, they could be shipping it somewhere with strict environmental controls (that are act
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And the problem is that Americans consume more food, water, fuel, and goods per person, and produce more waste, than any other. In particlar when compared to the people who end up taking care of your trash. You're not doing anywhere enough to clean up after yourselves, and you're not the least mindful about the constantly diminishing resources of this planet. You just pretend like it on TV to feel good about yourselves.
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that "food" was manufactured in NJ and yes your shit IS ending up in there ;)
Amazingly (Score:4, Funny)
Ok, so? (Score:2, Interesting)
Ok, so the geotags show the equipment ending up all over the world. So? The real question was were they recycled?? Re-used?? Or were these confirmed landfills?
No, I didn't read the article.
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I'm curious as to why they are bothering taking LCDs apart? CRTs have a fair amount of copper in them which is valuable, and if you can separate the lead out of the glass that's valuable too. But a non-functional LCD is pretty much a slab of mostly worthless plastic with a couple of small circuit boards in them.
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At least we know it doesn't end up in the ocean.
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They probably ship as cheap as possible, which means loading the container where it is more likely to get washed overboard and end up in the ocean.
Re: Ok, so? (Score:1)
What interests me more is why you would ask a stupid question that could be answered within 1 minute of RTFA?
There's even a video you can watch if you're really too lazy to read.
No, No, and not really. (Score:2)
No, No, and not really. The valuable parts were stripped and the rest dumped. For example, the dumped parts included cold cathode fluorescent lamps (CCFLs) from LCD screens. CCFLs contain mercury and should be handled carefully instead of being thrown on the ground (like they were in the article).
Not Totally Bad (Score:2)
The end result is that many of these electronics are getting recycled, just overseas. One can make a sound argument for the health of the workers due to toxins, but lets face the fact the working conditions in some nations are lackluster. Remember employees making iphones killing themselves, and the sweat shops in India and Vietnam for clothing and shoes?
I am not arguing that these people do not deserve better conditions, but think it is important to note that recycling is occurring, and some people are get
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Remember employees making iphones killing themselves, and the sweat shops in India and Vietnam for clothing and shoes?
The average "foreign sweat shop" worker can make 200% to 700% [econlib.org] more than the average income of workers in their country.
Hundreds of thousands of people around the world are killed in rural agricultural accidents, and there is plenty of suicide in impoverished rural areas of developing countries where there are no good paying "sweat shop" jobs.
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The reason employees making iphones kill themselves is that there are over 100,000 workers in the plant, it is a small city. If you have 100,000 humans, you have enough to guarantee that some are going to commit suicide. The actual suicide rate is low compared to a US, European, or Chinese city.
A friend of my wife spent 4 years in Taiwan working in one of these factories. It is a really great job, she saved lots of money and was able to take an extended vacation afterwards, and still saved more than she wou
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Remember employees making iphones killing themselves,
Nope, because it was never a problem. The peak of suicides was close to the average suicide level in a US high school, and most of those complaining about the suicide rates in China (are in the US and) don't care about US high schools, so it can't be that bad.
And the average suicide level of all those working for Foxconn in China is less than the suicide rate in the US. So based on the "suicide because of conditions" theory, the average person in the US has a lower quality of life than a Foxconn worker.
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Remember employees making iphones killing themselves,
I remember a couple of Foxconn workers killing themselves for various reasons. Some may even have worked on iPhones - but since at that Foxconn complex there were devices assembled for several dozen companies, its highly unlikely that even a majority of them did.
Hong Kong? wow (Score:2)
I would have expected the majority would have gone almost anywhere other than Hong Kong.
I saw a documentary a while back showing how much perfectly good/working electronics and appliances of their own that the Hong Kong Chinese are ploughing back into landfills since the people there are apparently used to throwing out even expensive stuff just because its over a year or two old.
Why on earth would they want our old shit?
e-waste definition (Score:2)
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astroturfed garbage artical (Score:1)
TFA mentions 1/3 wind up overseas.
WTF happened to the other 66% of electronics?!?! As far as I could tell the TFA forgets that it had another 132 other data points to share, instead focusing on 7% of the goods that support the addenda they are pushing.
garbage story.
Re:astroturfed garbage artical (Score:5, Interesting)
WTF happened to the other 66% of electronics?!?!
It was recycled in the US. Your criticism of the story isn't misplaced; the writers are careful not to point out that 2/3's of the e-waste they traced was recycled or disposed of by domestic recyclers. The story claims 200 items were tracked. 65 ended up in various third world hellholes. All of it "went through U.S. recyclers," so it's reasonable to conclude the other 135 items did not get exported. Omitting this is deliberate; most readers are left believing all of our e-waste is exported and polluting the world without the least care. Creating outrage at ebil planet wrecking 'murcia is job one at PBS et. al.
Newsflash: "Green" companies BS their customers (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of businesses quickly figured out that people who go "awww" when they see whales or polar bears are often more easily parted from their money than the general public, and since calling themselves "green" takes no actual extra work - you might even get the ganza-smelling dude hauling monitors to work cheaper if he thinks he's working for "a cause" - what did you really expect?
need a site in America for recycling (Score:2)
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The question is really cost.
To burn stuff, deal with the exhaust gases and particulates, and scrape out the ashes takes an awful lot of extra cost than just buying - as you state - a "special" incinerator. A long, ongoing cost.
Then separation, recomposition, and selling off - it still has to be CHEAPER at the end than just buying new material or nobody is going to use it. You can have a block of pure steel for a thousand dollars, or a squadge of slightly impure, recycled steel for two thousand (or have th
Next time please track the NYC "private carters" (Score:3)
So all that effort that businesses put into properly separating recyclables from other solid waste
Some background:
http://abc7ny.com/home/who-really-takes-out-the-garbage-where-does-it-go/1275453/ [abc7ny.com]
And an interesting article on the commercial carting industry in NYC:
http://citylimits.org/2015/05/19/city-weighs-reining-in-private-garbage-collectors/ [citylimits.org]
Let's be real (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's be real. This stuff is not being "recycled". Oh, there might be some places pulling some precious metals out of the mix, but most of it is just plastic and metals that no one has any interest in recycling. There would be a lot less waste if devices were more modular, and standards were not constantly changing, but I don't know how you get companies to build stuff like that.
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Actually, smelters love e-waste - it's concentration of precious materials is equal to or higher than mining dirt.
And people don't
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Sure, metal is recyclable. That is not what I was saying. If there was any profit in it, it wouldn't be allowed to sit around. But the article describes piles of plastic and metal that isn't being recycled. That tells me there's no profit in it. It's not easy to get people to do something if there is no incentive to do it.
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Let's be real. This stuff is not being "recycled". Oh, there might be some places pulling some precious metals out of the mix...
Actually, a prior study found that just over 90% of e-waste shipped to Africa wound up being sold because our discarded items are still better than the low-quality crap that manufacturers sell in the third world.
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That's better than recycling. Reduce > Reuse > Recycle.
Say what? (Score:5, Informative)
One worker says he isn’t aware of the risks. “He had no idea,” Su says, after speaking with him in Mandarin.
Well yeah, he had no idea what she asked him. Low skilled workers in Hong Kong are likely to speak Cantonese.
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Nope! Mandarin is increasingly spoken in Hong Kong as reunification proceeds. In another decade or two, HK will be just another Chinese coastal city. It's no surprise the low-paid jobs go to Mandarin speakers from the mainland.
Don't you hate it when you try to pull some educated-sounding fact out to make someone else look like a fool and it turns out it used to be true a long time ago and you're actually the fool? Doh!
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Hong_Kong
Usage of spoken Chinese
According to Hong Kong Census in 2011, 89.5% of the population in Hong Kong speak Cantonese.[4] Besides, there is around 4% of the population (about 300,000 Hong Kong people) speak Chinese varieties other than Mandarin and Cantonese, which include Hakka, Teochew, Tanka, Punti, and Shanghainese, etc., in daily conversations.[4] For Mandarin, at least 1.4% of Hong Kong citizens speak a variety of Mandarin as daily use at home.[4]
Don't
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Mandarin speakers from the mainland.
People from the mainland are not automatically Mandarin speakers. The entire southern area of China around Hong Kong is Cantonese. Did you think that little area of Hong Kong developed Cantonese all by itself? While Mandarin is taught in primary school most people who do this kind of work probably weren't the best students.
What I was trying to make light of is that the reporting writing the article wanted to sound fancy by specifying Mandarin but likely had no idea what Chinese dialect was being spoken, sin
RTFA (Score:2)
"Su talks to the workers and finds out many are migrants from mainland China, who are residing in Hong Kong without the official documents required for them to legally be there, she says."
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Speaking Cantonese and speaking Mandarin are not mutually exclusive, you know. Mandarin is taught throughout China, so many people are (at least) bilingual.
At least... (Score:1)
Details about Tracker? (Score:3)
The article is slim about details of the tracker, the battery life, the battery capacity required to manage such life etc., Any ideas?
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They can last for up to two years depending on temperature and conditions
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Yeah, me too. How did the location get reported? Did they use some sort of cellular modem?
Surprised (Score:3)
Not a surprise.
The same was found for UK WEEE waste. Someone in China or India will happily sign anything you like if they can become your "recycling partner", and then just throw the stuff into their local (unregulated) landfill.
I do a lot of WEEE disposal (if you throw out over a ton of waste electrical equipment a year, you're required to track it with paperwork, below that, not!). The guys who email me about offering that service all claim to be WEEE registered. One of them, many years ago when the scheme was only a year or two old, took my old CRT's and told me exactly what happens to them: They drive them to Heathrow in a big lorry, where someone pays 1GBP each for them, which pays the petrol for the journey. Those people load them on a plane, signs the official "we will dispose of them properly" paperwork (so the first company are covered and so am I), and then nobody's quite sure what happens there on...
But I can't see that a lorry full of old CRT's are worth even 1GBP each in metals and materials, certainly not 1GBP + staff wages + disposal of the dangerous stuff + international transport via cargo plane + sitting and recycling the potentially useful stuff.
Unofficially, the guy was told it just goes into landfill abroad - but because the paperwork DOESN'T say that, everyone is covered. And if the company in India that signed that declaration is found to be dumping the waste? Well, there are lots of others and you can "start" another company quite quickly.
And previous tracking projects like this (I've seen at least three or four from local news to nationwide research) confirm to me that, pretty much, that's what happens whether it's supposed to or not. I imagine the easy-pickings (the still-working old Dell computers, etc.) are sold on locally, the large blocks of metal (e.g. rack units and anything that can be removed as a lump of metal etc.) are melted down by the local scrapyard, and anything hazardous is shipped out because it's such a cost to deal with and someone in a third-world country will happily take it off a plane, take the time to weed out the gold etc. without care for their staff, dump the rest for you, and then sign anything you want so long as it's accompanied by a few quid.
And because it's gone out of the EU and has "legal" documents, the originating countries don't really care.
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The Indian companies must get something out of it, otherwise they wouldn't do it.