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Piracy Movies Entertainment

After Netflix Crackdown On Border-Hopping, Canadians Ready To Return To Piracy (www.cbc.ca) 438

An anonymous reader shares an article on CBCNews: Many Canadians are enraged by Netflix's declared war on cross-border watchers, who skirt the company's rules by sneaking across virtual borders to stream Netflix shows and movies restricted to other countries. Sometimes it's hard to be satisfied with Netflix Canada's library when our American neighbours have, it's estimated, access to almost double the content. But this big and bold clampdown may backfire -- at least in Canada. Turns out, Canadians are big pirates at heart. Apparently, we feel somewhat entitled to download illegal content when we don't have cheap and easy access. Instead of shelling out $10 for a Netflix subscription, some people now may opt to pay nothing at all to get what they want.
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After Netflix Crackdown On Border-Hopping, Canadians Ready To Return To Piracy

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  • If they are trying to pay for something but it isn't available for sale, they aren't really exercising any sense of entitlement. The market has rejected them - and their money - so they are obtaining what they want some other way. There is no indication from this - and if anything counter indication - that they wouldn't pay for it if they could.
    • by gfxguy ( 98788 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:03AM (#51996963)

      Of course they are exercising a sense of entitlement - you aren't entitled to anyone else's work for free, and if they choose not to make it available to you, that's their right. Netflix aren't punishing Canadians for no reason, they're doing it because their content providers are restricting it. Even though it sucks, it doesn't make it "right" to obtain it in violation of copyright. We're not talking about essentials, we're talking about f#@king movies.

      I can understand the frustration, and frankly - while I can't condone illegal copying of someone else's work - would tend to look the other way in this instance, but it most certainly a clear case of a sense of self entitlement to other people's work in violation of their terms. There's not even a "gray" area here - it's entertainment. You have no natural "right" to it.

      • by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:08AM (#51997003) Journal

        You have no natural "right" to it.

        But neither is copyright a natural right. A right like that comes with certain responsibilities.

        • The only responsibility that copyright comes with is the responsibility to turn the work over to the public domain when the copyright ends.

          Then again, this responsibility has been dodged for the longest time.

        • by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:42AM (#51997343)
          Copyright gives the copyright holder control over distribution. In the past, distribution was physical so it made sense to restrict availability based on geographical location.

          Today distribution is mostly electronic, so geographical location means nothing. But copyright holders insist on clinging to their old model of limiting availability based on location. That's what's causing conflicts like this. (To be fair, economic normalization has not yet caught up to the information age. So the $10/mo Netflix subscription which is pocket change in the West is still a significant chunk of change in the developing world. The copyright holder may thus feel justified in being able to offer a lower price in certain locations. But those sorts of price differences are what lead to higher wages in the developing world. If they want Netflix but $10/mo is too expensive for them, they will demand higher wages instead of settling for being paid 10 cents/hr.)
          • Part of that reason is because content ownership/rights are bounded by those very same boundaries they are being enforced at. My guess, is that Netflix library's availability has more to do with Canada's programming laws and rights owners than anything else. This has been an ongoing issue with Canada for a very long time (since Cable), and the people who are complaining about it, do not outnumber those that like it that way.

        • What is a "natural" right, as opposed to a right, and why is there a distinction? All rights come with responsibilities, not just those that you decide to categorize differently out of convenience.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        If someone doesn't want to sell me something but I can take it without them even noticing, whats the harm in that? Its not like I've deprived them of anything; they didn't want to sell it to me anyway, they didn't want my money.

        • by MadCow42 ( 243108 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @11:32AM (#51997861) Homepage

          Well, presumably that media is still available for Canadians to purchase in other manners. Maybe it's more expensive, maybe it's less convenient than their preferred option of a Netflix subscription, but they could still "buy" it on DVD or other services or whatnot.

          So - it's a dubious argument that they're "entitled" to pirate it because Netflix doesn't want to sell it to them. But, it does highlight that people are willing to pay for content in a manner that's reasonably priced, flexible, and in a format that makes it easy and convenient to use... and if media companies won't provide that and get SOME revenue from it, alternatives like piracy will thrive.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        It's not black and white. On the one hand it's not right that the only legal way for me to watch the current Game of Thrones this year in the UK is to spend hundreds of pounds on a Sky subscription I don't want. But equally it's not fair on HBO and Sky that I pirate it either.

        Neither side has the moral high ground. The only real difference between us is that I'm willing to compromise. If it were available at a reasonable price in a usable format I'd pay for it. I think HBO believe that their current model i

        • by Geeky ( 90998 )

          If you have a good enough internet connection, you can get a three month NowTV subscription (enough to cover the 10 weeks of GoT) for about £14 (special offer if you sign up for three months instead of the usual rolling month).

          If you have no way to stream it to your TV and don't want to watch it on a PC or tablet, you can get a Chromecast for £30 that comes with a voucher for, IIRC, 30 days free NowTV. Or a NowTV box, which is basically a rebadged Roku, but I'd go with the Chromecast as it suppo

      • Actually, we do have the natural right to speak, sing, write, do things with our bodies. That would include singing songs we hear and writing zeros and ones we get to know.

        Copyright is an unnatural right to revoke our natural rights of doing all those things, for a while, and the time they are revoking our rights is no longer reasonable (I'm free to say those words after we're dead + 70y).

        Their terms are a violation of our natural rights, we should no longer let the abuse continue, but if they want the majo

      • "Of course they are exercising a sense of entitlement - you aren't entitled to anyone else's work for free, and if they choose not to make it available to you, that's their right. "

        Technically true, but when technology gives you a capability, such as streaming movies and TV shows, that 'rights holders' take away again, users perceived they have lost a right. If such users were to find a way of getting around Netflix' VPN restriction to stream content through Netflix that they are no longer "entitled to" acc

    • by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:41AM (#51997337)

      If they are trying to pay for something but it isn't available for sale, they aren't really exercising any sense of entitlement. The market has rejected them - and their money - so they are obtaining what they want some other way. There is no indication from this - and if anything counter indication - that they wouldn't pay for it if they could.

      I'll occasionally download stuff I really want to see that is unavailable for online purchase and I'll readily admit it comes from a sense of entitlement. Morally if I'm going to view something I should view it in a way the creators/owners intended, usually by handing over some money, but I'm not prepared to fork over the amount of money it would take to get cable + HBO just so I can watch GoT.

      Similarly if I'm going consume animal products I should make sure they're raised ethically. I'll buy free range eggs but the meat is too expensive.

      Not doing the right thing because it's too inconvenient is a standard part of being human, I'd much sooner admit I'm imperfect than get into the habit of trying to rationalize the bad things I do as actually being right.

  • Make sense (Score:4, Insightful)

    by JcMorin ( 930466 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @09:48AM (#51996811)
    The same apply for paid games that are not working well because of authenticated while the pirate game works better. Is it Netflix fault or the whole industry to blame for that?
    • Re:Make sense (Score:5, Insightful)

      by i_ate_god ( 899684 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @09:52AM (#51996851)

      > Is it Netflix fault or the whole industry to blame for that?

      Netflix did what it did not because it wanted to but because the producers demanded they do.

      Netflix's business model is all about maximizing what any one individual can get. Content owner's business model is all about maximizing the money they can get off their content.

      Netflix doesn't have the same leverage as Apple I suppose in forcing the content owners to agree to their terms.

      I will continue to subscribe to Netflix because I do support that company even if the MPAA doesn't.

    • Re:Make sense (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Mr D from 63 ( 3395377 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @09:54AM (#51996877)
      Don't blame Netflix, they are just complying with the law and contractual requirements of the content owners. Netflix would happily supply everything to Canadians if they were allowed to. Making NF the culprit just makes it easier for the real issues to stay in hiding.. the content owners thank those that blame NF.
      • Re:Make sense (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Jason Levine ( 196982 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:24AM (#51997139) Homepage

        Exactly. This is the content owners at work. (You'll likely never see a Netflix Original in one market and not in another one.) The problem is that the content owners think they are "protecting" their works, but in reality everyone gets hurt. Viewers get hurt by not being able to see content (or by needing to resort to VPN or piracy to get it). Netflix gets hurt by not having their maximum library available everywhere. Finally, content owners get hurt because Netflix reduces piracy. When people can't get to the content via Netflix, they are likely to either pirate or do without - both of which bring in $0. Better to license it to Netflix worldwide and bring in some cash then lose money* due to content restrictions.

        * To clarify, I don't mean "lose money" as in so-called "lost sales" but as in "they could have gotten money from Netflix in these other markets but decided not to."

      • by jdavidb ( 449077 )
        My take is that if the copyright holders want some money, they should play ball with Netflix. Otherwise they are very likely to get nothing at all.
        • My take is that if the copyright holders want some money, they should play ball with Netflix. Otherwise they are very likely to get nothing at all.

          Good thought. Maybe, if and when NF gets the upper hand, that might become the case. For now NF needs the content and they are going to agree to terms to get content and keep it out of the hands of Amazon or other competitors. Of course, if NF does get to that point, things may look a lot different overall.

      • It's a non-tariff barrier to trade: between the states of the US or EU, or between the provinces of Canada, a blocking scheme is illegal. Between countries, it is legal because the countries want to protect their businesses from foreign competition and encourage, for example, local printing of physical books.

        IMHO, it should not be legal for non-physical goods. Someone in Australia or Canada shouldn't have to pay a higher price that someone in the US to stream a movie, just the exchange on the money...

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Yep, Netflix are the good guys here. Their pricing model is sane too. A friend of mine has an Amazon Fire TV box, and a lot of the same shows are available on both Netflix and Amazon Prime Video.

        Netflix is £8/month for HD and all you can watch. Amazon Prime is £6.66/month + £2.50 PER EPISODE. For the same shows that are on Netflix. Okay, with Amazon you sort-of-not-really own a DRM-infested broken file, but it's not really enough to justify the insane pricing.

      • Don't blame Netflix, they are just complying with the law and contractual requirements of the content owners. Netflix would happily supply everything to Canadians if they were allowed to. Making NF the culprit just makes it easier for the real issues to stay in hiding.. the content owners thank those that blame NF.

        Fine. I wont blame Netflix if they charge half of what they're charging US subscribers. Subscription rate should be directly proportional to service. I'll gladly pay half the price for half the content.

        • The issue was not with what they are charging. You certainly CAN blame them for charging more than you are willing to pay, but that has nothing to do with them not being able to show the content to you legally.
    • by gfxguy ( 98788 )
      In nearly all these cases I blame the consumer - it's a f#@king game or movie - you don't need it. Is it really that hard to NOT buy a product that has been purposely f#@ked up for legal purchases? If people could just exhibit some restraint, we wouldn't have these problems with content providers, but they keep giving us s#!t and you people keep buying it.
      • Re:Make sense (Score:4, Interesting)

        by religionofpeas ( 4511805 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:14AM (#51997053)
        From the producer's perspective someone not buying is the same as pirating. Might as well pirate it, and get some enjoyment out of not buying.
      • History demonstrates that things don't truly work that way. The content in question is NOT available by any reasonable means. There is nothing to boycott since you cannot get it but for illicit means. Regional restrictions means there is no lost revenue since there is no product for sale in that region. If it were for sale then people would buy it. When Netflix complied with Hollywood bullying, the products were pulled from the Canadian market.

        In many people's minds the minute a copyright holder refuse

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @09:50AM (#51996839)

    What's really going on here is the greedy content producers want to practice price discrimination. There are no technical reasons why the same content can't be simultaneously made available worldwide. This is a means of enforcing price discrimination and disproportionately charging more for content in some regions. It really is the streaming equivalent of DVD region coding. When you have to resort to such tactics, it ought to be a sign that your business model is bad.

    • by PhysicsPhil ( 880677 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:29AM (#51997205)
      What's actually going on here is that other broadcast companies already have in many cases already paid for exclusive rights to the content in question for broadcast in Canada. Netflix welcome to put in their bid when those contracts come up for renewal.
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Seems like a broken model. Why are the rights to stream locked down to a country-by-country basis? I can buy Lays Potato chips in various stores around the world. Streaming should be working on the same model. I pay $Company x amount of dollars, I expect to get the same content as the every other country that pays $Company for their service.
    • What's really going on here is the greedy content producers want to practice price discrimination. There are no technical reasons why the same content can't be simultaneously made available worldwide. This is a means of enforcing price discrimination and disproportionately charging more for content in some regions. It really is the streaming equivalent of DVD region coding. When you have to resort to such tactics, it ought to be a sign that your business model is bad.

      And Netflix isn't guilty of price discrimination? They are charging the same price as US for half the content in Canada.

      • They are. This is what people don'T understand. Perhaps Netflix could offer all the US content for $30/month. But in order to keep costs down, they offer less content.

    • And Netflix isn't guilty of the same? Charging the same price as US for half the content in Canada?
  • Supply vs Demand.

    The Phoenicians before Christ might be described the Netflix of their day with trade items.

  • by CimmerianX ( 2478270 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @09:57AM (#51996897)

    I never understood this region license thing as it applied to digital media. It made sense when you had PAL vs NTSC or had to deal with local people to distribute.... but in the age of netflix, it seems very archaic.

    It's just the media companies desperately holding on to old sources of revenue instead of trying out new licensing models.

    Seriously, a pair of eyes is a pair of eyes.... If my canadian neighbor lives 1 mile away from me, why should I see a show and not them.

    Plus, don't get me started on the VPN blocking.... this stupidity by netflix and hulu are what keep me from running Full vpn through my DD-WRT router on my network. If I did, no one in the house could use either service.

    • by b0bby ( 201198 )

      Plus, don't get me started on the VPN blocking.... this stupidity by netflix and hulu are what keep me from running Full vpn through my DD-WRT router on my network. If I did, no one in the house could use either service.

      Just curious, why would you want to run a router based VPN other than to get around content blocking or something? Is it just so your ISP can't see your traffic?

      • by sims 2 ( 994794 )

        Verizon wireless has a pretty long history of fking with web traffic let's see... They have used a intercepting proxy to compress images (years ago now) they have (and afaik still are) intercepting all dns traffic on port 53 so you can't use a outside dns server unless you run it over a another port.
        and most recently they started injecting a tracking code into all outgoing http traffic. Sure they let you opt out of that now but for the better part of a year there was no opt out.

        And last there is a account u

    • by huh_ ( 53063 )

      It's because Canadian networks like Bell, Shaw, etc purchase the rights to broadcast those shows here, whether it's over cable or their own shitty services like Shomi, or Crave.

    • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

      It's just the media companies desperately holding on to old sources of revenue instead of trying out new licensing models.

      Or it's because exclusivity pays.

      I mean, I'm sure they'd love to have worldwide distribution - it's less people to deal with and less people means less middlemen taking profits.

      The problem is, the old distributorship model pays quite well - they know if they get exclusivity they can get a lot of money from it, so they pay a lot to the studios.

      The problem is if you want to break exclusivi

    • Yeah it seems archaic, but how do you sign a contract with an entity that would be the same across across companies and comply with different laws in each country? Seems money grabish but from a contract law perspective makes complete sense.
  • by unixcorn ( 120825 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:00AM (#51996921)

    No matter who's fault it is that the customer can't get the content she wants, Netflix is once again fucking up by trying to say the "small vocal minority" is inconsequential. In all cases where some are being vocal, there are many others who aren't. I liken it to an ice berg....the top would be the vocal ones and under the water the dissatisfied, quiet ones.
    At least provide a reason why there can't be a world catalog or start working on pricing.

  • Numbers, please. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by westlake ( 615356 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:03AM (#51996961)

    Instead of shelling out $10 for a Netflix subscription, some people now may opt to pay nothing at all to get what they want.

    Some people? But how many? The Canadian market is at best about 10% that of the U.S. and 20% Francophone. These are not big numbers for Netflix or the studios, so why should they care?

  • by future assassin ( 639396 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:15AM (#51997057)

    Told the wife who cares little about tech what Netflix was doing, he said off with their heads. So cancelled the sub. We were in the middle of watching Departures and Longway Round, well they downloaded overnight so here we are watching a leisure once again. I believe Departures is on CDN Netflix but Long Way is not.

    The decision was easy too as we mostly watch nature/travel shows and pretty much seen them all on Netflix, everything else that I watch I already have on my 800+ DVD. Oh and two days ago I received my Descending DVD which I bought from the Departures websites.

    I might feel different if I was younger but at this point of my life I just don't give a fuck. Put up roadblock and I'll just go around them or better yet not watch tv at all.

    • Told the wife who cares little about tech what Netflix was doing, he said off with their heads. So cancelled the sub. We were in the middle of watching Departures and Longway Round, well they downloaded overnight so here we are watching a leisure once again. I believe Departures is on CDN Netflix but Long Way is not.

      The decision was easy too as we mostly watch nature/travel shows and pretty much seen them all on Netflix, everything else that I watch I already have on my 800+ DVD. Oh and two days ago I received my Descending DVD which I bought from the Departures websites.

      I might feel different if I was younger but at this point of my life I just don't give a fuck. Put up roadblock and I'll just go around them or better yet not watch tv at all.

      To be honest I'm having difficulty finding anything I want to watch even on the US Netflix. If it wasn't for my child I'd cancel it.

  • Then Plex will just get some more downloads and nothing will really change. NF is generally easier than searching and torrenting (figuring out what to watch then waiting for the download to complete), so it just ends up a convenience fee for many people. But as it becomes more challenging to get the content they want, then piracy is naturally the alternative.
  • by spaceyhackerlady ( 462530 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @10:28AM (#51997203)

    Like so many of these things, the lawyers can pass all the laws they want. But this has already been settled by the engineers. The onus is on the lawyers to figure stuff out, because this isn't going away any time soon.

    I have a legit account for the Canadian Netflix-lite and may pull the plug soon since there is little of interest on it. U.S. Netflix doesn't interest me, but I use a U.K. VPN to access BBC and ITV streaming content. I'd pay a reasonable amount to access it legitimately.

    ...laura

  • Because now they can basically go to the studios, tv networks etc and say "see? those are all your lost sales for not signing a contract with us."

  • Old days Canada and DirecTV I remember long ago when DirecTV wasn't licensed to provide service in Canada and Canadians could get hacked cards and legally pirate everything DTV had with H cards. The Canadian courts had ruled since DTV wasn't authorized to do business in Canada (at the time -- I'd be surprised if it never changed), then DTV was essentially beaming an unsolicited signal and anyone in Canada could do what they wish with it.
  • The Real Problem (Score:2, Informative)

    by cyriustek ( 851451 )

    The Netflix offering in New Zealand is abysmal as well. As such, many people happily used services like Unotelly and others to circumvent the geo-blocking. As a matter of fact, one ISP (Orcon) actually offered a service to help its users to bypass geoblocking. However, this was taken away due to legal threats from SkyTV and cable operators.

    Services like DirecTV, SkyTV, Xfinity, and others are to blame for perpetuating an antiquated system of content rights. They have a lot to lose from globally available

  • Like it or not, border hopping means getting content that you are not licensed to get. It's piracy, just like it is piracy to get a student version of a software if you are not a student. Just because you pay for something doesn't mean it isn't piracy. Some people pay for VPN/tunnels/torrent trackers/newsgroup, and the copyright holder gets nothing of that money. If the copyright holder of TV show XYZ sold it in Canada to a Netflix competitor but to Netflix in the US, that Canadian competitor is right to ex

  • News at 11 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Macdude ( 23507 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @11:13AM (#51997659)

    People will obtain illegally, that which they desire but cannot obtain legally.

  • by jenningsthecat ( 1525947 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @12:15PM (#51998373)

    TFS echoes TFA, which says the following:

    If Netflix continues its crackdown, we're likely to see more Canadians turning to piracy. That's apparently what Canadians do when we don't have easy access to cheap content. Market research analyst, Brahm Eiley calls it our "dirty little secret." He says statistics on piracy are scant but that, according to his findings, Canadians are bigger cord cutters than Americans. On the surface that seems odd because Americans have access to many more low-cost streaming services such as Amazon, HBO and Hulu. However, we find other ways to get what we desire — such as downloading unauthorized films and TV series. "Canadians are kind of more comfortable going out and finding content in whatever creative way they want," explains Eiley, president of the Toronto-based market research company, Convergence Consulting Group.

    TFA talks about piracy, but relies entirely on a linked article to support its claims. The linked article is primarily about cord-cutting, but contains a little blurb titled "Canadian Pirates". That weaselly little blurb links to a 'study' that supposedly supports its contention - but the 'study' mentions NOTHING about downloading, (illegal or otherwise), nor does it mention piracy. Shitty, shoddy journalism, a tempest in a teapot, and total BS. As a Canadian, I expect better from the CBC.

  • by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Wednesday April 27, 2016 @12:37PM (#51998629) Homepage

    One of the basic principles of a free market is that there is COMPETITION.

    Yes, you are allowed to charge whatever you want for something you own - but that requires people to have valid, reasonable other options available to purchase something similar.

    When you collaborate with other people to ensure that there is NO other option for people to buy anything similar to what you own, that is called an illegal trade monopoly.

    Yes, you are legally allowed to get the protections of copyrights, but as part and parcel of a capitalistic system, the government is required to spend just as much time and effort preventing you from engaging in anti-competitive trade agreements as they are in enforcing your copyright.

    W\hen you violate the rules of capitalism, creating anti-competitive trade agreements with the other content produces that are supposed to be your competitors, you have no right to complain that the government doesn't spend enough effort going after the 'pirates' because they also are not going after you for your illegal Trade Agreements.

You know, the difference between this company and the Titanic is that the Titanic had paying customers.

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