First Library To Support Anonymous Internet Browsing Halts Project After DHS Email 130
An anonymous reader writes with an update to the news we discussed in July that a small library in New Hampshire would be used as a Tor exit relay. Shortly after the project went live, the local police department received an email from the Department of Homeland Security. The police then met with city officials and discussed all the ways criminals could make use of the relay. They ultimately decided to suspend the project, pending a vote of the library board of trustees on Sept. 15.
DHS spokesman Shawn Neudauer said the agent was simply providing "visibility/situational awareness," and did not have any direct contact with the Lebanon police or library. "The use of a Tor browser is not, in [or] of itself, illegal and there are legitimate purposes for its use," Neudauer said, "However, the protections that Tor offers can be attractive to criminal enterprises or actors and HSI [Homeland Security Investigations] will continue to pursue those individuals who seek to use the anonymizing technology to further their illicit activity." ...Deputy City Manager Paula Maville said that when she learned about Tor at the meeting with the police and the librarians, she was concerned about the service’s association with criminal activities such as pornography and drug trafficking. "That is a concern from a public relations perspective and we wanted to get those concerns on the table," she said.
Re: (Score:2)
No, it wasn't "middle America" that asked for a culture of fear.
It was our political and financial elite that forced one upon us.
Re: (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re: (Score:2)
And then set the cops to jail when they actually try it.
Bullshit ... (Score:5, Insightful)
God I'm so sick of this bullshit:
It's legal, and there are legitimate uses for it ... but we're going to list off a bunch of scary hypotheticals, and insinuate how you'd be responsible for everything on the planet.
I hope the library board sends back a big fuck you like librarians sometimes do ... give up the right to anonymity on the notion that it might might lead to something bad is the argument of cowards and fascists.
No matter what anybody likes to think, the US stopped being a free country or a champion of liberty and democracy 14 years ago. And you'll never get it back.
Re: (Score:1)
And what reasons do you have for not running a Tor node yourself?
Re: (Score:2)
Fear of perpetual imprisonment on trumped-up secret charges?
Re: (Score:1)
They aren't secret. You just can't be told what they are because you are a terrorist.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Bullshit ... (Score:4, Informative)
My reasons? I like being able to use the net.
Many websites preemptively ban tor exit node ip's
If you have a extra ip you can dedicate to it its not a problem otherwise its a serious pita.
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, I used to run an exit node but now I just run a bridge node. Exit nodes go into the web's leper colony. There are even newspaper sites with no commenting features that will ban your IP.
Re: (Score:2)
And what reasons do you have for not running a Tor node yourself?
Lack of bandwidth mostly, though I used to run a freenet [wikipedia.org] node.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
No matter what anybody likes to think, the US stopped being a free country or a champion of liberty and democracy 14 years ago. And you'll never get it back.
Long before then, I'm afraid. Sadly, all the Patriot act did was say "all the rights you already lose if we call you a drug dealer? Now you also lose all those rights if we call you a terrorist". And lawmakers from both parties had it ready to go, just in case there was a disaster they could take advantage of. Plus the NSA was monitoring all of us regardless, they didn't need a specific excuse.
We're certainly being surveiled as much as the average Chinese citizen, though we used to have the advantage th
Re:Bullshit ... (Score:4, Interesting)
It's looking more like Germany in the '30s every day.
http://www.slate.com/content/d... [slate.com]
https://prod01-cdn06.cdn.first... [firstlook.org]
https://markosun.files.wordpre... [wordpress.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, we see how people dive in to defend the establishment by likening an anti-establishment candidate to the Nazis.
Trump and Sanders have the most important thing in common: they'll actually change something if elected. And at this point, even random change is very likely to be for the better Both of them are leading in the primary polls as well, which is a great sign that voters finally want real change, not just for their team to win the big game.
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, we see how people dive in to defend the establishment by likening an anti-establishment candidate to the Nazis.
Trump and Sanders have the most important thing in common: they'll actually change something if elected.
Unless Congress gets flushed good and hard, that statement is highly unlikely.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you joking? If we have learned ANYTHING from the last 8 years (and I have my doubts that "we" have, if "we" means the imbecile electorate), it is that Congress couldn't stop a wet paper bag if the President threw it at them. President Obama has changed plenty. The ACA is just one of the changes he brought, massive as it is. Anything he HASN'T changed, and there is plenty (closing Gi
Re: (Score:1)
Are you joking? If we have learned ANYTHING from the last 8 years (and I have my doubts that "we" have, if "we" means the imbecile electorate), it is that Congress couldn't stop a wet paper bag if the President threw it at them. President Obama has changed plenty. The ACA is just one of the changes he brought, massive as it is. Anything he HASN'T changed, and there is plenty (closing Gitmo as a lock-up facility (so far, but stay tuned), reigning in DHS and TSA and NSA, etc, etc) are things he either doesn't really oppose, or is unwilling to make a big enough effort.
Congress could go home tomorrow and stay there forever for all the effect they have on anything. The USA has finally finished transforming itself from a Republic into a dictatorship of the executive - minus (so far) throwing away the show of the Presidential elections every 4 years.
OK, perhaps he should have qualified that by saying if there's any POSITIVE changes not supported by the invisible power structure. Sure, Obama has changed plenty.. for THE WORSE. If, for instance, he had wanted tor reinstate the constitutional changes that Bush had first tampered with, instead of completely stripping them, he would never have been able to. Or, the same, in fact, if he had tried to implement even one of his original campaign promises from 2008.
Re: (Score:1)
I'd like to think that Bernie has a chance at getting elected, I'll be happy if he succeeds in altering the discussion. But since he's a socialist, just like Obama (according to "well informed" friends), I don't think he stands a
Re: (Score:2)
I think he (like Trump, and Carson) has the best chance in the past 40 years. Non-establishment candidates have been weeded out as "unelectable" for as long as I've been alive. Now we have a self-described socialist on the left, and two guys with no political history on the right, leading the polls. It's a hopeful sign. And all three of these guys are more honest about their positions than we've seen in some time. (Trump's a bit random and inconsistent, but no one thinks otherwise, and he clearly says
Re: (Score:2)
You think billionaire Donald Trump is the "anti-establishment candidate"? You believe he wants to upset the status quo? It never once occurred to you that a guy who's the product of an inheritance and expensive marketing might just be saying shit he thinks knuckleheads like you want to hear?
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, same Ratzo as always.
Maybe this is all just a cunning web of lies by Trump: could be possible, but honestly I'm not sure he's bright enough to keep it straight. Whatever passes through his head seems to come straight out his mouth unfiltered.
He's anti-establishment on amnesty, giving Iran the O-Bomb, taxing billionaires, and that's just the big-ticket items. He's paid-to-play in the past, but he's openly antagonistic to the whole current corrupt pay-for-play system. Hell, I'd bet he'd even reduce gov
Re: (Score:2)
So, the man you claim isn't "bright enough" to be cunning is bright enough to have a coherent set of policies?
But it does explain why you'd support him.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, I never said he had a coherent set of anything. He has anger, and an apparent inability to filter his mouth, and I approve of the chaos he'd cause in DC. Like I said, random change is almost certainly an improvement.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe. That chaos could also easily throw us into overt fascism. Remember, our civil institutions are becoming increasingly secondary to the corporate ones.
If government goes to hell, who do you think is going to step into the vacuum that creates? It ain't gonna be Thomas fucking Jefferson.
Re: (Score:2)
Remember, our civil institutions are becoming increasingly secondary to the corporate ones
I just think we're already going that way as fast as we practically can (you can't boil the frog too fast, or he'll notice), and thus change is likely for the better.
Anyway, I think it's more likely that we'll see Bernie vs Carson, unless Trump is actually capable of learning and changing his ways (in which case, I might actually like him, but I doubt it). Can you imagine? A presidential election involving national debate on the issues? I'd like to see it.
Re: (Score:2)
Don't worry, it gets easier.
Remember: progress not perfection.
Re: (Score:1)
Even random change is very likely to be for the better.
Um, no. Even with all our problems, things could be much worse than they currently are. Medicine is vastly overpriced, for instance, but we don't have the health catastrophes of Africa. Religious zealots hold substantial political sway, but it's not like the middle east. There aren't enough jobs, but conditions are generally safe and nothing like the borderline-slavery of China. Even compared to the more equitable democracies of western Europe, we do pretty well, with the U.S. ranking #6 in the OECD's qual [businessinsider.com]
Re: (Score:2)
We already live in a totalitarian state with omnipresent surveillance, searches without cause, seizures without trial, and a government whose budget consists chiefly of taking money from the politically disfavored and giving it to the politically favored. Sure, most places have it worse, no argument there. But "worse" is mostly in the direction we're already heading! A different direction is likely to be better. It almost has to be better than the leading establishment newspaper calling out the troubles [nytimes.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Ah, we see how people dive in to defend the establishment by likening an anti-establishment candidate to the Nazis.
Trump and Sanders have the most important thing in common: they'll actually change something if elected. And at this point, even random change is very likely to be for the better Both of them are leading in the primary polls as well, which is a great sign that voters finally want real change, not just for their team to win the big game.
Trump and Sanders will do precisely NOTHING if elected. If there's any serious chance they will, they'll get the same support John and Bobby Kennedy did..
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
I uploaded the first episode of the "world at war" that I'm pretty sure I got from archive.org , as a reminder of what started WW2, now that we're entering WW3 on the same trumped up and flimsy evidence. Within 5 minutes I was already served with a notice and my video blocked, despite the fact that the episode had been online for 15 years elsewhere and it has apparently been given the all clear as available. Seems it has been re-copyrighted and they want nobody to see it. It's only the first episode I had t
Re: (Score:2)
"through groups of citizens harassing anyone who departs from the groupthink."
That's always been the historical norm. The idea of tolerating dissenting ideas has really only existed since the Enlightenment, and even then only in certain cultures, and even the only sporadically. In most historical cultures and many current cultures, there are actual laws that allow for heretics to be punished.
Re: (Score:2)
<SithMindTrick>This really is the hope and change you're looking for.</SithMindTrick>
ftfy
Re: (Score:3)
14 years ago only? I think you should check your count. The drug war has been taking away people's freedom and abused to take their property for far longer than 14 years.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes, absolutely ... but 14 years ago was when Americans started thinking it was patriotic and accepted it with open arms.
So while Americans used to say "give me liberty or give me death", and used to joke about "papers please comrade" ... suddenly I'm betting a majority will all say "well, as long as it's to stop terrorists, or drug dealers, or kiddie fiddlers ... or pretty much anything you can think of .. then we're OK with it."
And the people who have historically been the most leery of government intrusi
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Bullshit ... (Score:5, Informative)
I hope the library board sends back a big fuck you like librarians sometimes do
We're rallying outside the library on Tuesday to show our support for the Trustees and to let them know that the People support them. 80 Main St. West Lebanon, 6PM, for anybody north of Boston (2 hrs) who'd like to participate. RSVP if you're on Facebook [facebook.com].
Re: (Score:1)
God I'm so sick of this bullshit:
DHS spokesman Shawn Neudauer said the agent was simply providing "visibility/situational awareness," and did not have any direct contact with the Lebanon police or library. "The use of a Tor browser is not, in [or] of itself, illegal and there are legitimate purposes for its use,"
It's legal, and there are legitimate uses for it ... but we're going to list off a bunch of scary hypotheticals, and insinuate how you'd be responsible for everything on the planet.
I hope the library board sends back a big fuck you like librarians sometimes do ... give up the right to anonymity on the notion that it might might lead to something bad is the argument of cowards and fascists.
No matter what anybody likes to think, the US stopped being a free country or a champion of liberty and democracy 14 years ago. And you'll never get it back.
The problem this library (and others) will run in to is the threat of lost funding if they continue the Tor project. Library budgets are already tight so the lost of ANY funding can be devastating. It's the only reason most libraries installed web filtering software.
Re: (Score:1)
McDonalds, Starbucks, et. al. (Score:2)
So how is this any different than someone using the free and open wifi at a Starbucks, McDonalds, Flying J truck stop, etc? Just as anonymous ...
Re:McDonalds, Starbucks, et. al. (Score:5, Insightful)
Only criminals want anonymity ... you want anonymity ... Citizen, why are you planning criminal activity?
You'll need to come along with us for questioning. Papers please, comrade.
This is a shady security department reaching out to a small town police force to make a "suggestion" to the library about all of the evils which could ensue.
That's about as completely scary as you can imagine, really. Freedom can be taken away with veiled innuendo by an agency who claims to be just pointing this stuff out.
Re: (Score:2)
When everything is illegal, unless expressly deemed legal, then you will understand. We already live in a tyranny, it just isn't a dictatorship ... yet.
Re: (Score:1)
But what about the books? (Score:5, Interesting)
Even the atomic physics books? Why, someone could learn how to make an ATOMIC BOMB from those.
Do you want to be responsible for that? You better require everyone entering the Library to ask you for the book, so that we can track it.
Also, some of those art books have necked ladies in them. Better give them all to me, so I can make them safe for everyone.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I could relate the saga of an interview with the FBI in the late '60s after a friend and I tried to get books on infrared-viewing equipment at a public library. This was in the days of "starlight scopes" being used over in a little country in SE Asia. Rather an unpleasant experience.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you want to be responsible for that? You better require everyone entering the Library to ask you for the book, so that we can track it.
We had better start requiring registration for callers 911 as well, since the police are now being used as a weapon via swatting attacks.
Re: (Score:1)
They are already working on that: FCC May Stop 911 Access For NSI Phones http://yro.slashdot.org/story/... [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:2)
Not to mention, imagine the calamity criminals could cause if they used ROADS.
Better shut down all the public streets and highways, you know, just to "be safe."
Forks and knives.. (Score:1)
could well be used by the criminal organization to torture and/or murder fellow citizens. Therefore I say we should ban the use of all forks and knives until proper surveillance on forks and knives can be obtained. I'm tired of putting forks and knives into the hands of our criminals!
Re: (Score:2)
Forks and knives
What about pointed sticks and rocks? Better put those under lock and key, too. How about martial arts? All martial arts are designed to turn the human body into a weapon for killing other human beings, so we'd better make all of those illegal, too. All vehicles, including bicycles, can be employed to injure or kill people. Better outlaw those, too. In fact let's outlaw everything because almost any object can be used to injure or kill another human being. Water is a prime candidate here, you can drown someo
You joke, but... (Score:2)
could well be used by the criminal organization to torture and/or murder fellow citizens. Therefore I say we should ban the use of all forks and knives until proper surveillance on forks and knives can be obtained. I'm tired of putting forks and knives into the hands of our criminals!
Hah! You've ironically brought up one of my personal pet peeves of the post 9/11 era. In my area of the country at least, I kid you not, sometime after 9/11 the local supermarkets and Walmart all stopped selling boxes of plastic knives. Really! You could not buy a box of regular plastic picnic-type knives. I eventually discovered you could get them as part of an assorted plastic eating utensil package, but plastic knives on their own by the box were out! You could not buy them, anywhere. I tried asking the
Isn't FUD just the best thing ever? (Score:1)
So very effective is the appeal to animal instinct... The reasonable person hasn't a chance in this world.
TOR SMASH!!! (Score:1)
Fear the Tor! "TOR SMASH!!!"
Yeah... maybe I recently watched Plan 9. heh
Pencil (Score:1)
Just because you can stab someone with a pencil doesn't mean that's its only use.
Did you know they let you have pencils on planes?!
US highways are used to commit crimes every day would closing all the off ramps fix that?
So what happened to (Score:2)
"Live Free or Die?"
Re: (Score:1)
"Live Free or Succumb to National Security Fearmongering" doesn't fit on a license plate
Kitchen knives can kill. I had government training (Score:2)
The terrorists have won (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I said that many years ago.
9/11 helped cement the rape of the constitution.
Re: (Score:3)
Snort. Yes, "the terrorists" have won, but no, they haven't "forced" us to do anything. They finessed us into doing it to ourselves. They have essentially turned our own governing apparatus into a fifth column. I wouldn't give them any exaggerated credit for cleverness. Our governing apparatus has been rotting and growing perverted for a long time. "The terrorists" didn't employ any great insight or clever methods. They just gave the pile of shit a slight push in the obvious direction.
Lobotomies for everyone! (Score:3)
Did you know that criminals can use their brains to come up with crimes! The public should be lobotomized so criminality will be impossible!
Re: (Score:2)
Did you know that criminals can use their brains to come up with crimes! The public should be lobotomized so criminality will be impossible!
Watching Fox News is more effective than a lobotomy.
Re: (Score:2)
Did you know that criminals can use their brains to come up with crimes! The public should be lobotomized so criminality will be impossible!
Watching any corporate media outlet is more effective than a lobotomy.
FTFY
Coalition (Score:1)
Not to play Devl's Advocate, but... (Score:1)
Have you ever actually looked at the traffic from a Tor Exit Node? It's pretty much exactly what the DHS is claiming it is. Yes there are legitimate uses for Tor, but let's be honest here, what the overwhelming majority of Tor uses are using Tor for is not good things.
So... (Score:1)
Only criminals or those planning to be criminals (i.e. no right-minded American/<your nationality>) want to use anonymizing technology.
In unrelated news... (Score:5, Insightful)
In unrelated news, after a visit by DHS, Home Depot decided to voluntarily stop carrying crowbars, bolt cutters, saws, boxcutters and hand tools of all kinds after learning that these tools can be attractive to criminal enterprises or actors. The use of a crowbar is not, in [or] of itself, illegal and there are legitimate purposes for its use. When asked for comment, a Home Depot manager said that when she learned about the illicit uses for tools at the meeting with the police and general contractors, she was concerned about the company's association with criminal activities such as burglary and even murder.
BREAKING: NH Highways Enable Police Evasion (Score:4, Interesting)
Roll anonaminity out (Score:2)
Re:Roll anonaminity [sic] out (Score:2)
"Anonaminity". LOL.
Hence Their Motto (Score:1)
Calling Mr. Bradbury (Score:3)
Time to update Fahrenheit 451.
Re: (Score:2)
451 is not about censorship. It is about television, as Mr. Bradbury himself explained.
In F451 they're not burning SOME books, they're burning ALL BOOKS. If you wrote a book saying how wonderful the government was, they'd burn THAT. That's not censorship, that's removing competition.
Issue: Filtering Requirements (Score:1)
Use of a Tor Browser could also cause issues as far as requirements under the Children's Internet Protection Act and other federal level laws which mandate the use of filters in order to receive federal grants (USF and LSTA). If the Library doesn't receive federal grants covering Internet, then it's probably easy peasy (they just have to manually ensure no one is viewing material "harmful to minors".
Personally, I love the idea... but it clashes greatly with the needs for monies to actually run the libraries
Possible responses I would have made (Score:2)
"Psst - we're setting up a honeypot!" .onion isn't that new top level domain for satire?"
"We did it because we get a lot of ex-husbands logging on here."
"Gee - you mean
I hopt the do. (Score:2)
... pending a vote of the board of trustees (Score:4, Insightful)
They ultimately decided to suspend the project, pending a vote of the library board of trustees on Sept. 15.
So a library manager made a decision, that decision generated some contention (for better or worse) and so the matter is submitted it to democratic decision making by the proper authority. If there's a story here, it's what and how the library board of trustees decides and who tries to influence that decision.
Heck, for all we know the board might enthusiastically endorse the project. But seriously /. couldn't wait those 4 days to find out the decision.
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, the board did enthusiastically endorse the project [slashdot.org].
I'm sure everyone flailing their arms around wildly will acknowledge their overreaction and adjust accordingly right?
A poor bargain (Score:3)
Re:Will somebody... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Will somebody... (Score:5, Insightful)