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Software Devs Leaving Greece For Good, Finance Minister Resigns 431

New submitter TheHawke writes with this story from ZDNet about the exodus of software developers from Greece. "In the last three years, almost 80 percent of my friends, mostly developers, left Greece," software developer Panagiotis Kefalidis told ZDNet. "When I left for North America, my mother was not happy, but... it is what it is." It's not just the software developers quitting either. The Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis also resigned. A portion of his resignation announcement reads: "Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today."
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Software Devs Leaving Greece For Good, Finance Minister Resigns

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday July 06, 2015 @02:49PM (#50056457)

    Umm, I lived in Vancouver Canada for 10 years as a software developer and me and most of my software developer friends ALSO moved to the US (I currently work for Apple, most work for Google or other local companies). Greek developers may have an extra incentive to move, but they are hardly unique.

  • Varoufakis (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Monday July 06, 2015 @02:57PM (#50056505) Journal

    I think it's pretty clear Varoufakis was turfed by Tsipras because the only hope in hell Greece now has of negotiating a deal with the Troika and remaining in the Eurozone and even in the EU is not having that man by his side. The price of even talking about a new deal and further bailouts is Varoufakis's head, which has been delivered to Merkel on a silver platter. This referendum was completely about Tsipras's political survival, and having achieved that, Greek voters will now witness just how utterly irrelevant the referendum was.

  • the percentages point to him.
  • by NotDrWho ( 3543773 ) on Monday July 06, 2015 @03:03PM (#50056555)

    "Adios, suckers!" the Finance Minister screamed as he hit his secret eject button.

  • Democracy (Score:2, Insightful)

    This is the first time that I can think of that a population directly voted in the affirmative to collapse their economy.

    I hope that's just me being cynical, but I think that's what's on the way.

    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by Brett Buck ( 811747 )

      It happened in 2008 and 2012, too.

      • by cdrudge ( 68377 )

        By what measure do you figure the US economy collapsed itself in 2008 and 2012? The economy already was collapsing well before the election in 2008. By almost every economic measure I could find the economy is doing better now that what it was pre-2008. I'd say the actual damage was done in 2004 or 2006, not 2008 and 2012.

    • by Nite_Hawk ( 1304 )

      Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me this is more about a population voting to recognize that their economy has already collapsed rather than attempting to continue veneering it over.

      • Re:Democracy (Score:5, Interesting)

        by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Monday July 06, 2015 @03:29PM (#50056845) Homepage

        From what I can tell, nobody knows WTF it means.

        The Greek government thinks that the will of the people now means they have more leverage to negotiate.

        The problem is they're asking for handouts and free money from other governments who have to explain to their citizens Greek pensions are being funded by everybody else.

        Greece is essentially bankrupt, and wants more money. So either every other EU government is going to throw even more taxpayer money into the pit which is Greece's economy, or they're going to tell Greece to piss up a rope.

        This sounds like someone having their house foreclosed demanding the banks forgive their debt, lower their interest rate, and give them more money to pay bills.

        In other words, it sounds like the Greek government is living in a fantasy where everybody else pays for their society.

        And I'm not sure that's gonna happen.

        • The Greek government thinks that the will of the people now means they have more leverage to negotiate.

          Well, in a sense they do.

          The argument is something like "we have $200 billion of your money and we ain't gonna give it back. If you ever want to see it again you better talk".

          • Honestly, from what I've been seeing ... it's more like "you're still not getting your money, we want you to forgive some of the debt, and we want you to give us even more money so we can pay other bills".

            I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. Only on Tuesday it's another hamburger, and can you loan me $20 until Thursday.

            That's not "negotiating", that's "sponging" or panhandling.

        • In other words, it sounds like the Greek government is living in a fantasy where everybody else pays for their society.

          This sounds like the USA, where all the world economy is sustaining the dollar's value.

          • by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

            In other words, it sounds like the Greek government is living in a fantasy where everybody else pays for their society.

            This sounds like the USA, where all the world economy is sustaining the dollar's value.

            Except the USA isn't bankrupt, and there's plenty of people who don't mind investing in the US. Sure the country may be spending more than it gets through taxation, but everyone feels that the US fundamentals are good, and there are valuable assets in the country. And in general, the US economy is general

    • They mistakenly believed that "a better deal" would come because Greece was "too big to fail" as part of the euro.

      Personally, I don't think the vote bodes well for the people of Greece. It tells the creditors that the people don't/won't do what's necessary to repay the debts, and I don't think the creditors like that message because they won't get paid back. So the options are either just give Greece money and bail them out, or cut them loose from the euro. I don't think there is a political way that th

  • This 'no' vote self-imposes the spending cut that Greece hates to see but the 'yes' vote also imposes the spending cut. There is no way to avoid a spending cut for Greece.

    Austerity is a strange word, it sounds sterile, it has strange connotations. The correct term is spending cuts.

    You cut spending if you cannot afford what you are spending on and when you cannot borrow to spend either and in case of chronic offenders the sooner the creditors realize what they are dealing with the healthier for everybody.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      USA has its own version of what is Greece experiencing right now, that's what 'debt ceiling' is. Many believe that USA can simply print bonds and sell them and get out of jail free, however this only works as long as somebody buys those bonds and the bond market is the biggest bubble of all. USA will have its own currency crisis and bonds are currency promised into the future, so that will also collapse.

      That is what the austerians want you to believe. The reality is that the USA will never have trouble 'selling' its bonds, because the federal reserve just buys them if nobody else will or it wants to drive down interest rates. This is precisely how the fed controls interest rates normally, and is the basis for quantitative easing. There is no possibility of the USA having a problem with its bonds because it can keep printing money until the economy takes off (at which point it would just create inflation).


  • Not being an economist, is it feasible in an way to loan the money to the people of Greece and let the greek banks die?

    Is Greece showing any real signs of wanting to address the problems of their economy and tax dodging?

    • Greek people don't need the capital. They have all the taxes they didn't pay.

      What they need is a solid currency. I suggest bitcoin.

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      Banking in the EU is pretty much borderless for the wealthy. Just open an account in a German or whatever bank. You might need to establish 'residence'. But that's not difficult to satisfy the requirements of regulations. For the middle class on down, its another matter. If the neighborhood banks and ATMs shut down, what are you going to do? Hopping on a plane or train for a weekly cash run is no problem for the rich. Not so much for everyone else.

      Any bank opening a branch (or ATM) inside Greece will expos

  • by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 ) on Monday July 06, 2015 @03:46PM (#50056957) Journal
    Movement from India to USA used to be a one way street. Indians come over, become hyphonated Americans, to borrow Jindal's phrase, and stay. That was the norm till about 2000. Then it began to change. Most of the top grads from IITs and IIMs, no longer are coming over. Those who came, many have left, returned back to India to start companies over there. The ones who came over, learnt the system here, some got US degrees, some did not, established connections, then lots of them returned.

    Not all of them returned, heck not even most of them returned. But risk-tolerance, ambition etc are not distributed uniformly, it follows the power law. So the 20% who returned took with them 80% of the risk-tolerance, ambition, entrepreneurship with them back to India.

    So let Greece give up euro for drachma, let drachma fall as low as INR. It will thrive on tourism, and the Greeks coming back to start companies a few years down the road.

    Germany has benefitted a lot by the economic union. Had Deutschmark stayed out of euro, its exports would have become so expensive no one could import them. 80% of Germany's exports are to rest of Europe. Capital would have naturally flowed to less expensive countries, and they would have the companies and employment restoring the balance. Greece leaving euro is going to be a bigger blow to Germany than to Greece.

  • by Chris Mattern ( 191822 ) on Monday July 06, 2015 @04:24PM (#50057329)

    The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts. -- Paul Erlich