FTC Targets Group That Made Billions of Robocalls 97
coondoggie writes Given the amount of time the FTC and others have put into curing the robocall problem, it is disheartening to hear that a group of companies for almost a year have been making billions of illegal robocalls. The Federal Trade Commission and 10 state attorneys general today said they have settled charges against a Florida-based cruise line company and seven other companies that averaged 12 million to 15 million illegal sales calls a day between October 2011 through July 2012, according to the joint complaint filed by the FTC and the states.
Hello? (Score:2)
Call: Let me ask you a question
Me: Click
They had me so excited it was going to be the ones that are calling me twice a day right now. At least it's not the stupid car warranty scam again.
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On my land line I put the phone down gently without hanging up. I figure if they want to waste my time, I should waste some of theirs.
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The brings to mind a profound application that would likely solve this problem, a turing test for robocalls. How long can a computer keep the telemarketers on line, whilst leaving you out of it all. Roboanswers for robocalls, so 'hmm' apt ;D.
Re:Hello? (Score:5, Interesting)
The brings to mind a profound application that would likely solve this problem, a turing test for robocalls. How long can a computer keep the telemarketers on line, whilst leaving you out of it all.
Already exists, Google "telecrapper 2000".
let's not mince words here (Score:2, Interesting)
Assuming an average lifespan of 70 for the sake of round numbers, they've wasted somewhere around 52 lifetimes [google.com] of other people's time.
These people make Jeffery Dahlmer look like a piker. They should be locked in a metal box with spike on this inside. Killing's too good for the lot of them.
I pay to have a phone for my benefit, not theirs.
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Re:Hello? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hello? (Score:5, Funny)
Very cathartic... and fun.
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Source: Best friend's stepfather, a retired cop.
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The fun part is that the person calling can't hang up the fun. they have rules to follow.
once, I got a call from some these bozos, I said, "sure, hang on one sec..." I put the phone on speaker and continued with my basement remodel project...... for 2 hours this guy had to listen to me sawing and hammering etc... every now and then I'd throw a "almost done" in to let him know that I have not forgotten about this. I finally pick up the hand set and ask "am I ever going to receive a call from you people in
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You mean you wasted valuable time of their calling program? They probably pay very close to zero calling rates per minute, why bother? Or there is live person that will speak to you if you do not hang up after listening to the message?
Re: Hello? (Score:4, Informative)
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Well, and the thing to remember is you have no idea what actually happens when you press a button.
Have you been connected to a pay for call service? Have they confirmed your phone number is valid? There are examples of people pressing "1" only to find a line item on their phone bill the next month.
Honestly, the best solution I've found is to buy phones which can be programmed to block certain calls (like callers with Unknown/Private numbers). After that, I simply don't answer calls from area codes I don'
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There are examples of people pressing "1" only to find a line item on their phone bill the next month.
Can you cite such an example of an incoming call placing a charge on the bill of a recipient that pressed '1'?
Funny: (Score:2)
Good description of someone who works for a dishonest company.
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Here's how to handle the car warranty:
Them: Hello, sir, you're vehicle warranty has expired. How many miles are on your [insert car here]?
Me: A million and a half.
Them: Oh, okay...
Me: Give me a warranty, I just totalled that bitch.
Them: Have a nice day, sir.
Me: Hey, you fuck, I want a warranty. How am I supposed to afford a new car?
Usually they just hang up as soon as you give them that kind of mileage, but you get the hang of it. They won't call back for about 6-8 months.
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Or you could use non-standard units. And no, I don't mean switch to kilometers.
About 14.6 football fields make up a mile, so...
Them: Hello, sir, you're vehicle warranty has expired. How many miles are on your [insert car here]?
Me: 68,000 football fields.
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Re:Hello? (Score:4, Funny)
"Thank you for calling the FBI self incarceration hotline. To surrender in english, press 1. Para espanol, oprime el numero dos."
There is a long pause, and the guy goes "Hello?" so I go
"To hear these options again, press 3."
"hello?"
'To hear these options again, press 3."
there is this anxious pause, and then I hear the button tone.
'beeep.'
I nearly die of joy, and promptly start my imaginary menu from the top.
"Thank you for calling the FBI self incarceration hotline. To surrender in english, press 1. Para espanol, oprime el numero dos."
another anxious pause, and then:
'Beeeep.'
I'm not trying not to pass out from glee, so I scream into the phone:
"YOUR A FUCKING IDIOT! NEVER CALL ME AGAIN!"
they called me twice a day for a week after that, but god it was fun.
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So, genius, why do you keep sending me warranty offers you can't honor?
Somehow
And was it really a punishment? (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless they settled to the tune of tens of billions of dollars, I don't see how we're going to make any progress on this.
Re:And was it really a punishment? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:And was it really a punishment? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: And was it really a punishment? (Score:3, Informative)
Telemarketing doesn't poison the NSA database anymore than spam email poisons an email account with a good spam filter. Spam, whether tele or email, is highly centralized. It's trivial to ignore for those guys.
Which reminds me, it's about time that phones get a filtering solution.
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It's trivial to ignore for those guys.
That's the point at which you switch to phase 2: you become a telemarketer.
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In Russia somebody made an android app for blocking debt collector agencies calls. Users add offending numbers to global list. Can something like this work to filter out telemarketers or they can freely change caller id?
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The problem still is with folks putting in good numbers. Who vets the number to ensure it's a debt collection agency? And really, at least they're legitimate companies. It's the cruise, time share, vacation, auto warranties, home loan folks that need to die in a fire.
[John]
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I'm sure there is some totally-innocent reason why the telcos, who are definitely in no way complicit with the spammers, continue to let end users rely on it, rather than on ANI, which actually has some hope of working because it was designed to insure that somebody
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If they can filter out telemarketing calls via behaviorial analysis, they can simply ignore the junk data coming from those sources.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Simpler to just get rid of the telemarketers.
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using CIA killer robots on ... telemarketers. They have to stick out like a sore thumb in call traffic analysis, and I'm pretty sure that 'the corporate veil' is not rated to withstand most contemporary munitions.
+1.
Just like with spammers, the behavior will continue until those who are engaging in it start dying because of it.
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The telemarketers probably are the NSA. Think about it you have the three steps bullshit. We are looking at Jane, who regularly gets calls from this number XXX-XXX-XXXX (so happens to be their own telemarketing front).
Next, they want to look at John and tap his phone too, but oh damn he isn't three steps away, it won't be covered by their FISA warrant. So they have the telemarketing co place a class to John.
Great now John is within three steps. Its all nice and legal....
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I have also still been getting calls from many scam companies. When Rachel from Credit Card Services calls, if I have time I press one and engage the person. Sometimes I ask them for their company's name, then address, which normally results in hangup. Once I had a person who must have been new and who seemed genuine give me a real address that
Re:And was it really a punishment? (Score:5, Funny)
I was hoping "settled" meant they agreed to hangings rather than impalings.
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Instead of "settling" with the cruise line company behind the robocalls, they should have sunk it, like the Titanic, and let its corpse "settle" to the ocean floor. THAT might have had a chance at deterring other telemarketing ***holes.
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Unless they settled to the tune of tens of billions of dollars, I don't see how we're going to make any progress on this.
The solution is hard jail time. I don't mean easy-living jail, I mean the baddest damn federal prison. And not just for the boss, but for everyone involved.
Have Settled Charges? (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF does "settled charges" mean? Who went to jail? Who was prosecuted? Where and when was the court case?
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You can't be dumb enough to both not know what settled means in that context and not know how to find out.
So I guess you're being rhetorical and trying to make a point, but are unable to not be passive-aggressive about it for some strange reason?
Re: Have Settled Charges? (Score:5, Informative)
However as is typical in these cases, while the settlement imposes a civil penalty of $7.73 million against CCL, it will be partially suspended after CCL pays only $500,000. Other companies involved such as Linked Service Solutions got a $5 million civil penalty but will only be required to pay $25,000.
Why does government even pretend to work for us?
Re: Have Settled Charges? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would like to know: the next time that I receive a £60 parking ticket will the authorities be content with me paying £5?
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Maybe. Are you such that the chances that the government would ever get the £60 minimal? The IRS for instance has settled back taxes, fines, and other penalties for a fraction of what was owed because they realize something is better than nothing. Other civil settlements are similar. Heck, even early release/parole/suspended sentences for criminal convictions can be viewed as paying a fraction of what is actually owed.
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I can't speak for the court system by you, but I got a ticket once for going through a stop sign. (I did a "rolling stop.") I appeared at the court house and all of the people with tickets were, one by one, being told to speak with the prosecutor at which point they'd come back with a non-moving violation and a small fine. I wound up agreeing to "parking on the sidewalk" which got me a $100 fine and wasn't reported to my insurance company. (My fine was higher than everyone else's and to this day I still
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I wound up agreeing to "parking on the sidewalk" which got me a $100 fine and wasn't reported to my insurance company. (My fine was higher than everyone else's and to this day I still wonder if it was because I questioned the validity of the ticket since the officer wrote down the wrong street that it happened on.)
No - its because you were parking on the damned sidewalk, ya bastard! Now straighten up and fly right.
Re: Have Settled Charges? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, not only is the civil settlement (not criminal - nobody's going to jail) ludicrous in size, it's also ludicrous that they act like it takes a multi-year investigation to figure out who's making the calls. It's not difficult, you use their service and then find out who did what. Given normal police detective work it should take up to a week tops to shut one of these operations down.
I love how they're still talking about taking Rachel from cardholder services down a couple of years ago. How stupid can these people be? I still get calls from Rachel as well as her sister Bridgette. Hell, she even has a brother.
Their needs to be a way to take these people's assets and throw them in jail. It's sad that we can steal a Mexican guy's cash at the side of the road because he might be a drug dealer (not that we can prove it or that we need to prove it) but get caught running an illegal business - exactly, by the way, exactly what asset forfeiture laws were created for - and you get a civil settlement of $500,000. No investigation into how much money was actually made.
You know this guy is still doubled over in his mansion laughing at the schmucks at the FTC who were stupid enough to settle for half a million.
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However as is typical in these cases, while the settlement imposes a civil penalty of $7.73 million against CCL, it will be partially suspended after CCL pays only $500,000. Other companies involved such as Linked Service Solutions got a $5 million civil penalty but will only be required to pay $25,000.
Which is all to say, mere cost of doing business. I wonder is a 15 minute delay before starting up again was part of that "punishment"?
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It means that the company gets screwed for millions of dollars all of which magically disappears into the black hole of the federal government general fund. Meanwhile, you, dear victim, will get discount coupons for cellphone accessories for obsolete phones. It's a little bit like the government promising you a tax "credit" in return for actual money paid by some private entity. You can only make use of this "credit" if you meet certain specific criteria e.g. tax bracket and taxes owed combined with astr
This should be easy (Score:2)
As they say, follow the money.
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All they need to do is to pay the scammers with a CC and watch where the money goes. Then go knock some heads.
As they say, follow the money.
If it's that easy... Why are there still criminals?
The sad fact is, it's not that easy. The money is funnelled through shell companies and offshore (most of the time the shell company is offshore to begin with) where it cant be traced by US authorities and then moved around a bit more for good measure (in increasingly legit transactions, but realistically it's just one front paying another until the money becomes clean enough to use).
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They went to the authorities and asked them why they didn't pursue these sorts of things and they blah blah'd about getting cooperation in Nigeria. The reality is that many of the contacts are with Nigerians in places like Canada and the UK.
The reality was that too hard actually translated into "not easy enou
Set up a premium number (Score:5, Interesting)
Like this fine man did. [bbc.com]
Then enjoy not hearing whatever they try to sell you over the sound of billing them 10p a minute.
Re:Set up a premium number (Score:4, Funny)
I pick up spam calls only when I'm overseas.
"Nej, det är lite för dyrt till mig just nu... Så jag önskar dig Gott Kineskiskt Nytt År från Guangzhou och en jättebra kväll! Tack för att du spelar!"
Re:Set up a premium number (Score:5, Funny)
I pick up spam calls only when I'm overseas.
"Nej, det är lite för dyrt till mig just nu... Så jag önskar dig Gott Kineskiskt Nytt År från Guangzhou och en jättebra kväll! Tack för att du spelar!"
What if they can't speak Spanish?
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*highfive*
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Sorry, I don't know how to give one in Welsh.
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My method for dealing with those robocalls is to use Google Voice as my main contact number. When they call, I let Google Voice answer the phone and then block the number as spam. The next time they call, they hear "this number has been disconnected."
Re: Set up a premium number (Score:2)
I get one or two daily, but never from repeat numbers. So if caller ID doesn't match someone I know, it goes to voicemail. The rob ovals never leave messages.
Cruises? (Score:4, Informative)
As always, the settlement teaches the wrong lesson (Score:5, Insightful)
As always, the FTC "settlement" consists of nothing more than the bad guys having to mail a check for the money they haven't yet shipped off-shore and promising to Go Forth and Sin No More. Why does the FTC even bother? How is that supposed to deter anybody?
Such a settlement might make sense if this was some minor paperwork violation of an obscure regulation, but these guys were simply pretending the law didn't exist, yet they still get off with a slap on the wrist.
Re:As always, the settlement teaches the wrong les (Score:5, Insightful)
You know when someone gets convicted of computer hacking they often get banned from using computers / the internet. Maybe these guys should get banned from using telephones.
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My guess is that the abilities of the FTC to punish are severely hampered so that they can't be used on otherwise-legit businesses when they do a bad thing.
Who buys this stuff? (Score:3)
Who's actually spending money on this stuff?
I get that maybe some elderly people can be victimized by carefully tailored scams that target the elderly, but when some guy from India calls some old white guy in Indiana about his computer, is he really going to buy into it?
And this other stuff about your credit cards, free trips, auto warranty -- who is buying this kind of thing over the phone anymore?
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Realistically, there are NO honest cold-call telemarketers. The law I would like to see passed is that there is a maximum $5 fine for beating the crap out of a telemarketer. And, make it a violation, not a misdemeanor.
Better yet, eliminate any penalty, and have people guilty of minor crimes beat the shit out of telemarketers as their community service.
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The problem with that idea is that I would negotiate with the judge to increase my community service to ten thousand hours.
You know - I didn't think of that. People would actually commit crimes so they could beat up telemarketers.
FTC, meet NSA (Score:4, Funny)
They'll be back like a bad penny (Score:3)
If it hasn't already happened, they'll just pop up under a new name, with a dozen new shell corporations but the same people behind it. Until they actually put some teeth behind the Do Not Call list, it's never going to stop.
OK, so they're only 2.5 years behind (Score:2)
This is a story about going after telemarketers that made calls from 2012. It's 2015, and my phone is still ringing with robocallers. At this rate, the people calling me now will be fined in 2018...
Falsies (Score:2)
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If the government put the company out of business then there would be no future revenue, err, I mean fines.
Need Asterisk On My Android Phone (Score:2)
So (Score:2)