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Crime Security Transportation

Uber Banned In Delhi After Taxi Driver Accused of Rape 180

RockDoctor writes BBC News is reporting that a 26-year old Indian woman is alleging rape against a driver for the embattled Uber transport-managing company. In a post on the Uber blog, one "Saad Ahmed" implicitly admits that the driver was a Uber driver, that the lift was arranged through Uber's service, and that the full range of Uber's safety mechanisms had been applied to his employment, and by implication, that Uber accepts some culpability for putting this (alleged) rapist into contact with his (alleged) victim. "Our initial investigations have revealed shortcomings of the private cab company which didn't have GPS installed in its cabs and the staff wasn't verified," Delhi Special Commissioner Deepak Mishra said. But Uber says safety was paramount, and added it had GPS traces of all journeys. "We work with licensed driver-partners to provide a safe transportation option, with layers of safeguards such as driver and vehicle information, and ETA-sharing [estimated time of arrival] to ensure there is accountability and traceability of all trips that occur on the Uber platform," its statement added.
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Uber Banned In Delhi After Taxi Driver Accused of Rape

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    That's sorted now, no more rapes in India.

  • rename it (Score:5, Insightful)

    by slashmydots ( 2189826 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @09:11AM (#48546651)
    Uber. It means super in German. That's misleading. It should be called Rides with Strangers Without Background Checks.
    • Re:rename it (Score:4, Interesting)

      by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @09:23AM (#48546723) Homepage

      So, hitch-hiking but with cooler technology?

      Me, why I'd want to get a ride from someone who has neither the proper drivers license nor insurance to be doing this has always been a mystery.

      Oooh, but it's an app, so it must be good, right?

      Uber likes to try to frame this discussion of how it's trying to compete with the big bad taxi lobby. What they are actually doing is running unlicensed cabs operated by people who aren't very accountable, and if something goes wrong they'll claim "well, we just dispatch, we're not a cab company".

      Sorry, but no.

      • Basically, they want to be like Wal-mart. Offer an inferior product at half price. But then the consumer is getting pissed off when the product doesn't perform as well as the full priced product.
        In this case, though, this is more like if Wal-mart wanted to sell a radio at half price that uses public frequency bands but doesn't meet the FCC regulations. Which Wal-mart would not be allowed to do.
        • Basically, they want to be like Wal-mart. Offer an inferior product at half price. But then the consumer is getting pissed off when the product doesn't perform as well as the full priced product.

          Depends on the market. They want to do what it takes to get into a city. Here in Seattle, they're offering a superior service for more money. Too many people are pissed at regular taxis being dirty, never showing up, or late. Since the cities core is fairly wealthy, they are willing to pay more for a cleaner, quicker, and more reliable service.

          • Since the cities core is fairly wealthy, they are willing to pay more for a cleaner, quicker, and more reliable service.

            So, since higher fares are available through Uber, the higher-standards (self-imposed) licensed taxi drivers are moonlighting to Uber and buying out their own tokens (or whatever the system is locally)?

            It's a serious question. OP here, and locally we're debating whether to allow Uber into our country and city (an alternative would be to let one of Uber's competitors in, if they actually a

            • Since the cities core is fairly wealthy, they are willing to pay more for a cleaner, quicker, and more reliable service.

              So, since higher fares are available through Uber, the higher-standards (self-imposed) licensed taxi drivers are moonlighting to Uber and buying out their own tokens (or whatever the system is locally)?

              There's really no chance of that in Seattle. The number of token is limited, the city isn't releasing any more, and the people who own them don't want to sell because they're direct income. I know one guy that was a cab driver that bought his own token, but he only got one because an owner ran into some trouble, needed money fast, and he had the money to buy it. The law limits the sale of such tokens to $20k last I heard, but he also had to slip another $80k under the table to the guy. Once you have your to

              • So, if this concept of "free market" works (a big "if" ; Like I said, Adam Smith was an Edinburian, and thus remains suspect), the higher fares that you say are available through Uber will allow some licensed taxi-owner to propose to a token holder that he rent the token for $225/day, and the token holder will, in the spirit of "free enterprise", decline the extra $25/day and refuse to allow Uber into the city.

                Sorry, I'm having a problem here. Something doesn't add up. There is money in the system that you

      • Uber likes to try to frame this discussion of how it's trying to compete with the big bad taxi lobby. What they are actually doing is running unlicensed cabs operated by people who aren't very accountable, and if something goes wrong they'll claim "well, we just dispatch, we're not a cab company".

        Two separate arguments so keep them separate. First, Uber is fighting lobbyists from large firms that make a fortune paying drivers poor wages and historically not giving a rats ass about consumers. This _IS_ a real issue, and it should take about 2 minutes of investigation to determine that the cab monopolies have been harmful to both consumers and employees. It has only benefited large corporations who can afford the "fee" to Government offices, who have been the other beneficiary.

        They are not a cab co

      • by mjwx ( 966435 )

        So, hitch-hiking but with cooler technology?

        And a price tag... Which really makes it like a taxi with a driver who has a criminal record.

      • Uber's only flaw is that they are trying to make money out of it. If there was an app that connected hitchhikers with hitchhikees, and the relative safeguards of GPS, tracking and a reputation system, and the fee was a "suggested donation" (this gets around the professional driver legality which is killing their model), then I'd be a regular user. If you turn off Fox News, you'll learn the world isn't that bad a place, and most of the time, most people are not out to murder you.
        • and the fee was a "suggested donation" (this gets around the professional driver legality which is killing their model), then I'd be a regular user

          In this country, accepting payment for driving is "driving for hire". Regular vehicle insurance is for driving for "social, domestic and pleasure" purposes ("SDP"), which includes getting to and from work, but does not generally include driving as an essential part of your employment. So, you're OK for commuting to and from work ; you're OK for driving to the res

          • This is probably another place Uber has erred. Uber's niche market shouldn't be professional full time drivers, it should be casual ride-sharing, ie I'm already going this way, why not earn a few bucks taking someone else with me.
            An example, I used to commute interstate 3 hours each way each week. I used to advertise on the local community website for anyone who wanted a lift could chip in $20 and save a bus/train/air fare. It worked out a couple of times, but the nature of connecting casual travelers doe
            • Those are some fair use cases. But I rather doubt that there would be enough business there to support several 40 G$ companies. But that is the investor's look - out.

              The government (for all known values of "government") will want their pound of flesh or 20% VAT or 10% GST or whatever they call it. But they will want their tax, regardless of your wishes.

      • So, hitch-hiking but with cooler technology?

        When I go hitch-hiking, I do my own security checks before getting into the punters car. As often as possible, I do it before the punter even approaches his (or her) car. (But then again, my hitching thumb is probably due for it's quarter-million km oil change, so what would I know?

        Oooh, but it's an app, so it must be good, right?

        Ohhh, sarcasm! could it possibly be that just like me, you are not convinced by the "new + shiny = good" argument that seems to pass wi

    • Uber. It means super in German. That's misleading. It should be called Rides with Strangers Without Background Checks.

      I mentioned that once before, and was roundly shouted down by the all regulations are bad crowd.

      Some times there are very good reasons for them, no matter what Rand Paul tells us.

      • The flaw in this argument is that taxi drivers (in my country at least) are also strangers with no background checks. At least with Uber I'm more likely to get a normal person and a normal car than some no-English speaking smelly immigrant in a beat up old car that's done a million kms. I'm a big fan of regulations, but the taxi industry is one case which needs major reform.
        • the taxi industry is one case which needs major reform.

          In your country, that may be the case. I simply do not think that is the case in my country, and certainly not in my city.

    • Uber. It means super in German. That's misleading. It should be called Rides with Strangers Without Background Checks.

      It doesn't. Uber means "I am stupid fucker who tries to impress by using fake German but I'm too stupid to add an umlaut where it belongs". Well, the correct spelling is Ãoeber, but it's anyone guess what slashdot will make of it.

      • Uber. It means super in German. That's misleading. It should be called Rides with Strangers Without Background Checks.

        It doesn't. Uber means "I am stupid fucker who tries to impress by using fake German but I'm too stupid to add an umlaut where it belongs". Well, the correct spelling is Ãoeber, but it's anyone guess what slashdot will make of it.

        Kind of like the guys who get Chinese tattoos and it turns out actually translates to "Small Lo Mein with Egg Roll"?

    • Uber or Ueber or more correctly with two dots on the U does not mean 'super' but 'above' ... like in 'above the law' or 'a bird is flying above the lake'.

  • SuddenlyI figure that indian woman is very tough~~~~
  • Culpability? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by flopsquad ( 3518045 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @09:14AM (#48546677)
    Let's take Uber at its word and accept that the "full range of safety mechanisms" was truly applied, and those mechanisms comport with contemporary acceptable standards for background checks in India.

    If that is the case, and the guy came up clean but yet still went on to do X, how is Uber any more culpable than a taxi company hiring a cabbie with no record, who subsequently goes out and does X, or a tour company hiring a bus driver with a spotless background, who nonetheless does X?
    • If that is the case, and the guy came up clean but yet still went on to do X, how is Uber any more culpable than a taxi company hiring a cabbie with no record, who subsequently goes out and does X, or a tour company hiring a bus driver with a spotless background, who nonetheless does X?

      They aren't. But it seems like there's a new trend in town - when a foreign tech company could potentially have guessed that someone using their service might potentially have done something bad, they're automatically at faul

      • Re:Culpability? (Score:4, Informative)

        by IamTheRealMike ( 537420 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @09:48AM (#48546953)

        W.R.T background checks, someone on Twitter has found a photo of a notarised police certificate stating the guy has no criminal record [twitter.com]. So either whoever reported he has one is lying, or the police verification process in India is as unreliable as people say it is.

        Regardless, I expect it will make little difference in the court of public opinion.

        • More news (seems this story is unfolding right now) - apparently the driver did NOT have a prior conviction for rape at all, but in fact had only been arrested due to an accusation. So it seems that the first possibility was the correct one, and there's really nothing that could have been done here (unless you believe anyone should be able to ban anyone else from being a taxi driver for life with nothing more than an accusation).

          • by jandrese ( 485 )
            Nothing that could have been done? That's not true. They can ban any potential competitors to the existing entrenched business interests in the name of avoiding rapes.
        • I'd be interested to hear what background checks the Indian taxi industry uses that would've prevened this guy from becoming a driver?
      • They aren't. But it seems like there's a new trend in town - when a foreign tech company could potentially have guessed that someone using their service might potentially have done something bad, they're automatically at fault. See: Facebook and Lee Rigby in the UK.

        That one is totally different. And we don't know actually if it's true. If you were looking for terrorists, the best situation would be to publicly scream at Facebook for not reporting suspicious post, so that the stupid bastards go on posting their plans on Facebook, while Facebook actually reports any suspicious post to the government so they can get arrested in time.

        But in most places companies are responsible for the actions of their employees as long as they represent the company. There may be more

    • If that is the case, and the guy came up clean but yet still went on to do X, how is Uber any more culpable than a taxi company hiring a cabbie with no record, who subsequently goes out and does X, or a tour company hiring a bus driver with a spotless background, who nonetheless does X?

      I wouldn't say they are more culpable, but obviously a company hiring taxi drivers should be on the hook for damages that their drivers cause as part of their taxi driving job, and Uber should be just as much on the hook. With the difference that apparently the company is valued as something over forty billion dollars, so I would suggest a high seven digit dollar payout to that lady.

      It obviously depends on the situation. In Germany, a company is responsible for paying damages if an employee does somethin

    • Let's take Uber at its word and accept that the "full range of safety mechanisms" was truly applied, and those mechanisms comport with contemporary acceptable standards for background checks in India.

      I don't think we can do this easily. India is a different sort of place:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new... [telegraph.co.uk]

      An Indian male can apparently be turned into a rapist by merely seeing a clothing store dummy. How on earth can they be expected to control themselves when a real live woman is in a car with them?

      Perhaps Hannibal Lecter type restraints are needed for Indian men?

      • An Indian male can apparently be turned into a rapist by merely seeing a clothing store dummy. How on earth can they be expected to control themselves when a real live woman is in a car with them?

        The author of "Jesus'n'Mo" has, ummm, covered this already. http://www.jesusandmo.net/2007... [jesusandmo.net]

  • by Anonymous Coward

    The lack of transparency with Uber leaves one wondering if that in itself will eventually bring a end to the company. The ideal is great, but the sad part is that it leaves to many opportunity for bad people to take advantage of it. We see a rapid expansion of Uber and with that has come distrust, privacy concerns and now potentially hiring people who may have criminal pasts and criminal motives to become a driver for Uber. When you loose trust with the public in a big way. Your not going to survive in busi

  • It should be law that the management of companies who place the lives of others in danger without performing due diligence to screen their subcontractors and employees will be subject to the same punishment as those that they subcontract to to provide services for the crimes their subcontractors or employees commit.

    • Due diligence can fail. Uber claims they did their background checks; apparently this is hard in India, as every police district has its own database: if you commit a crime in some other town, you're not on file locally. You have to physically walk to each precinct and request information about the person's criminal record--every city in India, every precinct--which could take years to verify the criminal history of one man.

      You can cut this down by only looking into where he worked or lived before, which

  • by puddingebola ( 2036796 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @09:33AM (#48546815) Journal
    If Uber is not a taxi service, what is it? If it's a "ride service", shouldn't there be regulations, statutes, city codes addressing its operation? What liability does Uber accept for the behavior and actions of its drivers?
    • Re:Questions (Score:4, Interesting)

      by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @09:42AM (#48546883) Homepage

      What liability does Uber accept for the behavior and actions of its drivers?

      From what I can tell, they seem to accept none of that, and they claim since these people don't work for them they're exempt from all regulations, because they just dispatch.

      Where I live, to be a cab you need a commercial drivers license, proper insurance, regular vehicle inspections, a tax license, and are legally required to have a camera installed in your car.

      Uber is claiming they don't have to worry about any of those things, and that the laws don't apply.

      I think Uber is full of shit, and are running a shady business where they're skirting around the law and calling it competition.

      You can't simply decide the laws and regulations around a car-for-hire service don't apply to you. They're just telling people it's safe to ride in an unlicensed cab which may or may not have the proper insurance.

      No thanks. I don't want to do business with a company who does that.

  • Using the same logic (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Trachman ( 3499895 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @09:53AM (#48547003) Journal

    Police needs to be disbanded when policeman makes a violent crime.
    Army needs to be disbanded when army people kill a person.
    The medical profession and regulations need to be disbanded, when malpractice occurs, for it takes only one mistake to cause harm.
    All the regulations need to be disbanded, because they do not make the crime disappear.
    Most of the males need to be aborted, using the same logic, for all the males are statistically potential rapists. The remaining pool for the purposes of procreation should be kept all locked in the "Male camps" and used during scheduled conjugal visits.

    In a most populous country with more than 1 billion people, statistically there will be all kind of mishaps, accidents and crimes. It is unavoidable.

    If truly rapes and strangers are an issue, then most of the progress would be achieved in eliminating this type of crime closing all the night clubs and bar.
    Also the night life is when a lot of crime happens, it is safer if all the people would be under curfew during the dark hours.

    • by Jahoda ( 2715225 )
      >> The remaining pool for the purposes of procreation should be kept all locked in the "Male camps" and used during scheduled conjugal visits.

      Go on....
  • by wiredog ( 43288 ) on Monday December 08, 2014 @10:03AM (#48547099) Journal

    With a valuation of $40,000,000,000.00 [washingtonpost.com] "embattled" is hardly the adjective I'd use.

    • by jandrese ( 485 )
      Valuation is a bullshit number though. That's just what the stock market is currently betting you'll be worth. It can appear and disappear in a flash and has little connection to the actual health of the company.
  • seems to think the whole world is made of west coast techno-hipsters with Foresters and just a hint of a schedule to stick to.

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