Gilbert, AZ Censors Biology Books the Old-Fashioned Way 289
nbauman writes The Gilbert, AZ school board has voted to tear out a page from Campbell's Biology (a standard highly-recommended textbook that many doctors and scientists fondly remember), because it discusses contraception without also discussing adoption. Julie Smith, a member of the Gilbert Public Schools governing board, said that she was a Catholic and "we do not contracept." Smith convinced the board that Campbell's violates Arizona law to teach "preference, encouragement and support to childbirth and adoption" over abortion. The Arizona Education Department decided that the pages didn't violate Arizona law, but nevermind. Rachel Maddow generously risked hassles for copyright violation and posted the missing pages as a service to Arizona honors biology students.
Baby meet bathwater (Score:5, Insightful)
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This is Arizona you are talking about. The whiny religitards, and their republican puppets get their way, be damned.So glad I was able to move away. Even gladder that I didn't have kids in their schools.
The real sad thing is that the schools in SE Phoenix are a lot better funded and better than the public schools back here in my hometown of San Jose (I moved back about four months ago. My colleagues with kids are appalled at the fact that they have to pay extra money for sports and music programs to partic
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I see no counterargument to his statement. Just personal attack.
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Re:Baby meet bathwater (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Baby meet bathwater (Score:5, Funny)
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Funny how a religion that goes around absorbing the tribal wisdom of those it encounters is treated with more contempt than one that was written by a single dude who thought he had perfection dripping from his pen and converted people with the sword.
Evolve or die, and they evolved, and... they're stupid for it?
It's not that it's more rational, more intelligent or more logical to render the sex act infertile, you know. On one side, you have people saying "Choose to be decent!" and on the other side, you hav
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Funny how a religion that goes around absorbing the tribal wisdom of those it encounters is treated with more contempt than one that was written by a single dude who thought he had perfection dripping from his pen and converted people with the sword.
You do realize that Islam has similarly absorbed a lot of pagan Arab customs, do you? That whole lunar calendar thing, Kaaba etc.
It's not that it's more rational, more intelligent or more logical to render the sex act infertile, you know.
It is, if what you want from it is enjoyment of it (which is what 99% of the people do, including - secretly! - anti-contraception religious nuts)
Bathwater too hot for you, eh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Troll? Au contraire. There is zero contemporaneous evidence for the existence of Jesus. Everything, and I mean everything, is some kind of report from people who never met Jesus, either by timing of birth against the story (Tacitus, Suetonius, Josephus, etc.) or as a consequence of first being introduced within the context of a story in a cobbled-together book, no part of which can we trace back any further than about 200 years after the story it tells about him ends.
On top of that, the cult that claims he existed has destroyed any customary grant of credibility they might have gained by reporting other historical events accurately, by inserting reports of walking on water, turning water into (copious amounts of) wine, magical healing (we *still* can't heal leprosy), raising the dead, and so on.
I am definitely outside the bounds of politically correct speech. Especially in the overwhelmingly superstitious USA. But I am in no way trolling. I'm just reporting the facts. If the facts upset you, perhaps you should do some additional thinking.
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The law says:
"... childbirth and adoption as preferred options to elective abortion".
So according to the schoolboard, contraception == abortion.
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The page in question also contains a reference to a "morning after" pill which would be considered abortion. That was used as the justification, but according to the article the whole page on contraception offended the school board member.
Re:Baby meet bathwater (Score:5, Informative)
The morning after pill is not an abortifacient, point of fact.
It prevents pregnancy, it does not abort nor induce a miscarriage. Fertilization and implantation (ie, a pregnancy) does not always or even usually happen immediately after sex, it can take hours or days to happen which is why it "may" work -- the morning after pill prevents pregnancy from happening, it doesn't abort a pregnancy already established.
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Which is also wrong. The "morning after" pill doesn't abort anything. It tells the body to stop ovulating "immediately" in order to avoid getting pregnant. If she's already ovulated before she takes the pill, it won't work, so it's no more an abortion pill than is aspirin.
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Re:Slashdot, once again... (Score:5, Insightful)
The science of contraception is a liberal world view?
Well, that explains a great deal...
Re:Slashdot, once again... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Slashdot, once again... (Score:5, Insightful)
In the war between our tribe and our enemy there can be no neutral ground. Any claim that isn't part of our tribe's identity and thus a pure, sweet truth, must be part of our enemy's and thus a vile, contemptuous lie. There can be no compromise with such Pure Evil. There can be no giving up any part of our cause, no show of weakness by ever admitting we were wrong. No matter what the cost to actual human beings, we will get our way.
But hey, at least people can change their ideological tribe, so it's a step up from ethnic ones!
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OK, so show me one schoolboard that ripped pages out of a book because it didn't conform to a liberal agenda, whatever that is.
Re:Slashdot, once again... (Score:5, Insightful)
But if it was about questioning global warming info being removed there would be crickets.
Well yeah, because the only place such discussion would likely be would be in a science book, and what's in a science book should be supported by evidence. The kind of "questioning global warming" that people like you mean is not supported by evidence, it's distorting evidence, and does not belong in a science book.
As Colbert put best, "reality has a well-known liberal bias". It comes from being willing to actually ask questions and observe the world to find our answers, rather than an unwavering loyalty to an ideology. In this case these fucknuts are taking their religious beliefs, based on nothing, and prioritizing them over actual science. That's not political in any way, that's just fucking idiots. Unfortunately for those who are politically conservative but aren't insane the "conservative" party has spent 20 years courting the religious morons in every possible way and happily set themselves up for this kind of shit.
Re:Slashdot, once again... (Score:4, Insightful)
I have no problem with conservative politics but can't stand their unwillingness to accept facts that don't agree with the broken parts of their philosophy.
What is wrong in the AZ debate is that they (the religious extremists) are mixing biology (science) and their personal beliefs.
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Only if by "liberal" do you mean in the traditional sense of liberty and the Enlightenment period's understanding of the scientific method. It does not hold true for the American layman's use of the term for an ideology [wikipedia.org]. For such pesudoscientific nonsense as eugenics, anti-vaccination, anti-GMO, "alternative" medicine, state censorship of violence in media, and complete ignorance of economics, you can't get much worse than American progressivism.
False comparison (Score:2, Interesting)
Global Warming backed by data.
Opposition to contraception backed by religious beliefs - i.e. NO data but backed by superstitious belief in God.
Religious beliefs do not deserve respect.
Re:Slashdot, once again... (Score:5, Insightful)
Well it's "News for Nerds, stuff that matters".
Let me elaborate.
The US is still, regardless of an individuals feelings towards it as a nation, the most influential nation with respect to sciences, technology and geo politics.
People like me from Europe, but also plenty of your fellow countrypeople from other states, are somewhat uneasy towards large areas of the US that are dominated by, to us, strange religious tendencies. At times it can feel like parts of the US aren't all that different to the Taliban in their general attitude, albeit the details differ vastly of course.
Now when things like this redaction of text books occurs, it lights up like a warning light that the, oh let's call them Christiban just for the fun of it, might be making inroads again.
And the US's position towards science, technology and teaching of science is of utmost importance for the rest of the world due to the US's massive influence in these fields. Noone can ignore it.
In closing I'd also like to notice that anyone scared by the actual Taliban, that group of not so terribly well funded Reactionaries in a overall not so terribly important part of the world, should realize that they are a trivial non-issue that a fully Talibanized ("Christibanized") US would pose.
Fantastically funded, large armed forces, nuclear weapons, a megapower... if that became in it's total a state dominated by relgious fundamentalists like that chick from that school board... that's a thought to shiver in fear of.
Re: Slashdot, once again... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Well it's "News for Nerds, stuff that matters".
Let me elaborate. The US is still, regardless of an individuals feelings towards it as a nation, the most influential nation with respect to sciences, technology and geo politics. People like me from Europe, but also plenty of your fellow country people from other states, are somewhat uneasy towards large areas of the US that are dominated by, to us, strange religious tendencies. At times it can feel like parts of the US aren't all that different to the Taliban in their general attitude, albeit the details differ vastly of course.
Now when things like this redaction of text books occurs, it lights up like a warning light that the, oh let's call them Christian just for the fun of it, might be making inroads again.
And the US's position towards science, technology and teaching of science is of utmost importance for the rest of the world due to the US's massive influence in these fields. No-one can ignore it.
In closing I'd also like to notice that anyone scared by the actual Taliban, that group of not so terribly well funded Reactionaries in a overall not so terribly important part of the world, should realize that they are a trivial non-issue that a fully Talibanized ("Christibanized") US would pose. Fantastically funded, large armed forces, nuclear weapons, a mega-power... if that became in it's total a state dominated by religious fundamentalists like that chick from that school board... that's a thought to shiver in fear of.
No less truth 'cause you chose to post this as an AC.
Re:Slashdot, once again... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Slashdot, once again... (Score:5, Insightful)
The parent did not use capitalization correctly. Yes, you consider yourself conservative, but allowing people to do drugs is not a Conservative (TM) position, it is a Liberal (TM) position. In fact, it is the intersection of liberal and conservative called libertarian. But, hey, those are just labels used to demonize and divide.
By the way, your argument falls apart in many ways, but mostly when kids are involved. Let's say mommy and daddy sit at home shooting up heroine (you shoot heroine, not LSD) and don't take care of their kids. Consequences, right? We put mommy and daddy in jail for child neglect and abuse. Great, now what do we do with the kids? Is it right to give them to some religious charity that will just indoctrinate them? Maybe there isn't a secular charity around to help. So, do we just tell the kids: "Oh well, mommy and daddy had to face consequences. You're on your own. Good luck." Or do we do something for them? If we do something for them with public money, that gives us control over what people put in their bodies, no? And, we have to do something for them because decades of history now show that you just perpetuate the problem by punishing the kids through punishing the parents.
Or, do we treat it like a public health issue, and get mommy and daddy treatment instead of taking them away from their kids? In which case, who pays for the treatment? We could put them in NarcAnon, but that doesn't really work and its a cult anyway. Again there might be some religious charities that will indoctrinate them. There might be some public charities. But that's really the problem with charities, they're unreliable, some are cults, and some indoctrinate into religions. So, we pay for it. Which, again, gives us some control over what goes in people's bodies, no? And, we end up doing that through taxation and regulation on what is available instead of an outright ban which hasn't worked at all.
We could be like Portugal and completely legalize everything. But, Portugal poured all of their former drug law enforcement dollars into public health treatment. There's no way in hell we would ever pour anywhere near 10% of what we currently put into drug law enforcement into public health treatment because we are a very punitive society (as evidence by your execution remark). So, we have to make a choice. And that choice is to not be a libertarian "paradise" that lets people put whatever in their bodies whenever for whatever reason.
Re:Slashdot, once again... (Score:4, Funny)
Whoops, "heroin" not "heroine". Stupid homophones.
Aw belgium. You caught it too soon.
And here I was all set to come up with something about how it is the villainess that you need to shoot, not the heroine. :D
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The singularity? While a religion with unrealistic ideas it's still mostly based on science.
Re: The other side of the page is posted (Score:4, Informative)
What the hell is... (Score:2, Insightful)
contraception doing in a Biology textbook? Shouldn't that be taught in Health class?
Re:What the hell is... (Score:5, Insightful)
I can see a small crossover in biology and contraception, since contraceptives do interact with biology. Not so much for the condom, but very much so for the pill ("how does it work?") and then getting into male contraception, and also sterilization (tube tying in both genders) I can see where that has a biology application.
But adoption, how the heck does that belong in a biology textbook???
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That you've had to explain things is bad enough but that some people think putting a sock over their cock is the only form of contraception...? Oh dear. I know it's Slashdot, but c'mon people, this is biology 101 here, not PHD stuff.
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It's fairly common at the high-school level to include a brief overview of human biology within the biology class. Looking through the ToC, it looks like some of the general topics have companion chapters specifically about human biology, e.g. there's a discussion of immune systems in general, but then also a chapter specifically on human immune systems.
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contraception doing in a Biology textbook? Shouldn't that be taught in Health class?
Ummm, isn't health a subunit of biology? I've never had a class called "health" in my entire education.
Under the guise of loophole and law. (Score:2, Insightful)
How Long before religion puts us back into the dark ages? No scientific book should be censored, simply added to as our understanding evolves, they may not agree to teach the subject without the addtion of adoption, but that is not a biological process as contraception is....
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The Dark Ages is probably hyperbolic, but you do bring up an interesting point: If the issue is that some other piece of information is missing, why not add a supplement containing that information rather than remove this page?
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I'm sorry, but the way things are going in the US, dark ages is probably not all that hyperbolic. The US could become something like the wasteland that fundamentalism has cause in the Middle-East.
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Exactly. Let them try and establish their crapilate - using just spears and swords.
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The Dark Ages is probably hyperbolic...
I'd love to agree with you, but history would beg to differ with both of us. The Dark Ages was caused, in large part, but the rise in political influence of the Roman Catholic Church. The Islamic world's fall from it's lofty position of leadership in arts and sciences was cause in large part by a similar rise in influence amongst Islamic clerics. The same mindless stupidity, driven by fear and ignorance, is playing out in the United States every day. The Gilbert, AZ school board silliness is just the latest
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I pity the US, but don't worry, there are still secular states in existence where religion has no say in science.
As long as politicians get laughed out of the parliament when they as much as suggest that creationism should be considered something akin to science, my hope in our politicians isn't entirely lost.
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I pity the US, but don't worry, there are still secular states in existence where religion has no say in science.
The problem is that the religious wingnuts can vote themselves entitlements which we then have to pay for. Only a couple of red states actually produce more tax revenues than they consume, like Texas which has oil. They overwhelmingly suck down our money, especially California which gets boned harder than anyone but Texas. And again, look at who's making the money in Texas. Fuck those guys over an oil barrel, anyway.
Re:Under the guise of loophole and law. (Score:5, Insightful)
No censoring is happening. By doing this they have ensured that every student in that class will go find the missing page and read it. The point is that we are in the internet age, not the dark ages. You can't hide information.
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No censoring is happening. By doing this they have ensured that every student in that class will go find the missing page and read it.
You seriously overestimate how badly teenagers want to read text books.
Even telling them they "can't" read it, isn't likely to motivate most of them.
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The woman on the school board who decided this was a great idea is trying to use a law that addresses preference to childbirth and adoption over abortion (not by means of censorship mind you) to enforce her ideals on contraception but the law (A.R.S. 15-115) [azleg.gov] itself does not address contraception at all. In fact the state department of education said the pages in question do not endorse abortion but merely present information about contraception and related drugs as plain fact.
So long story short this woman
She's proselytizing ... (Score:5, Insightful)
“I’m Catholic; we do not contracept,” Ms. Smith said. “It is a grave sin.” By including those pages in the curriculum, she added, “you have violated my religious rights.”
Her agenda is to make everyone Catholic.
Re:She's proselytizing ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't that supposed to be the agenda of every Catholic? (and most other religions)
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Not really.
Most religions seem to be created for let's say purely "domestic consumption". I only really can think of christianity (with all it's offshoots), islam and buddhism where missioning is really a major feature of the religion.
Judaism doesn't seem to encourage converting to it, many other religions probably don't even concern themselves with the question in the first place.
Re:She's proselytizing ... (Score:5, Insightful)
"I'm Catholic; we do not contracept," Ms. Smith said. "It is a grave sin. By including those pages in the curriculum", she added, "you have violated my religious rights."
Where do people get this idea that presenting facts or even opinions that they don't like constitutes a violation of their rights? How are we to have any kind of informed discussion in this country? Oh, I forgot - they don't want informed discussion.
Re:She's proselytizing ... (Score:4, Funny)
Catholicism's agenda is to make Catholics agnostics.
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Given the church's history [wikipedia.org] of censoring other viewpoints in the past, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you.
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But no, you link to the crusades which were never relevant to book censorship and which ended in the 15th Century over 600 years ago. That's a pretty lame response.
Either way, that was then, this is now.
Re:She's proselytizing ... (Score:5, Informative)
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I think you read too much into it. All she does is trying to force everyone to live by the laws of her imaginary friend.
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No she is not (per that statement alone) but she is claiming a "right" which does not exist. That the Catholic church says "do not use contraception" is not the same as "even reading about contraception is a sin.". Nobody is telling her or her offspring they must use contraception. If that were the case, then she would be correct, her rights were violated.
Actually it is nothing like that (Score:3)
Accepting gays is equivalent to accepting that Catholics do not use contraception. Trying to discourage or prevent others from using or even learning about contraception is the equivalent of trying to force people to be gay.
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This could be turned in to a good thing. (Score:5, Insightful)
This will all but guarantee that every student in the school system will read the page the school board is removing. Everyone knows that the quickest way to encourage a teen to seek out and read something is to remove it or ban it and tell them its not permitted.
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Not only that, but it would be interesting to see if the publisher will sue ( the one time I would LOVE to see a copyright lawsuit ) for copyright infringement; the school seems to be buying, modifying, and redistributing the book with modified information. Doubly so if the students have to buy the book from the school, since the school most likely will make some profit from the deal then...
Remind me again (Score:5, Insightful)
why we let religious loonies dictate what can and what can't be taught. Separation of church and state my ass!
Re:Remind me again (Score:4, Insightful)
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Well, outside the US, Iran and some other countries I'd not consider for permanent residency, schools are usually required to teach a secular world view.
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We let people determine what can be taught. Very few people are free of ideologies, whether they be religious or secular. Find me a living, breathing human being who has no personal biases, and I'll ask the doctors why a patient with absolutely no higher brain function hasn't been taken off life support.
One of the things that we, as conscious human beings, should do is strive to recognize the lenses through which we view reality. Yes, everyone has personal biases but it is possible to understand those biases, examine decisions that you are making and recognize their influence on your decision making process. This allows us to make more objective decisions. If someone is not able to do this then IMHO they should not be in a position to make decisions that have significant influence over other people, suc
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Well - the state shouldn't even be in the education system. Local school boards are supposed to run their own schools. This entire discussion should only be of local concern, and neither the state capital nor Washington should have any voice in the matter. Take away all those funds offered by the state and the feds - cool. LOCAL funds should be used exclusively. Local people pay local taxes, and decide locally where to build the schools, what to teach, and whether there will be sports, clubs, tutoring,
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Fine by me, but then don't come home crying for state funds for propping up your unemployed, single 16 year old moms.
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Some parts of the US actually still are. But ... give it time.
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Oh, and btw: Matt 25:40
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She should have listened in Sunday School when we taught her not to fuck around out of wedlock.
Obviously, you didn't teach her anything. Perhaps she can't hear you over the sounds of children being raped by your officials.
Re:Remind me again (Score:5, Insightful)
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You don't understand that THIS IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE!
If a school board chooses wisely, the people will benefit, and the economy will grow.
If the board chooses less wisely, less benefit, less economic growth.
If the board truly fucks up - the locals suffer, the board gets shit canned, and a new board takes a stab at getting things right.
There is no good reason for the monoculture we have in education today. There should be different approaches to things. Those systems that excel are likely to be copied in
Re:Remind me again (Score:5, Insightful)
By then the damage has been done - they've spewed out a bunch of imbeciles like you. And once those imbeciles can vote, you'll find that the new board is very much like the old board.
hm. (Score:5, Insightful)
“I’m Catholic; we do not contracept,” Ms. Smith said. “It is a grave sin.” By including those pages in the curriculum, she added, “you have violated my religious rights.”
“I’m American; we do not censor education,” vomitology said. “It is a grave sin.” By removing those pages in the curriculum, he added, “you have violated children's educational rights.”
FTFY
Bullshit (Score:5, Informative)
Meanwhile, the Cathloic school I attended was more than happy to explain all forms of contraception, and making mention that there's a risk that it won't always work. The Catholic school also noted a form of contraception based around when the female partner has the period, a form of contraception fully sanctioned by the Catholic church.
There are shades of crazy within the RCC (Score:5, Informative)
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Pope John Paul II ...
He no playa the game, he no maka the rules.
Schools should teach about abortion (Score:2)
in preference to childbirth or adoption. A significant percentage of students will get pregnant, even if taught properly about contraception, because that's what teenagers do. Giving birth means that both teenagers and their children will miss out on a big part of what life has to offer. Early abortion is medically safer than childbirth and not ethically questionable. Any good biology textbook would make it obvious that a fetus in early stages of development is further from a thinking, self aware human bein
I'd Like To Hear The Pope's Take On It (Score:2)
Apparently religion makes you stupid (Score:2)
Oh goody! (Score:2)
Whee, another chance to beat our chests and gloat about how superior we feel to those rubes.
Slashdot: News For Nerds, Better Late Than Never. (Score:3)
The Tea Party faction in control of the Gilbert AZ school board lost its bid for re-election.
There has been some huffing and puffing on both sides about what it might do before the new board takes control in January.
The AP Biology text is more symbol than substance.
The state of Arizona doesn't require sex education, which means that a general biology textbook is as close as a Tea Party controlled board will let students get to a serious discussion of sexual reproduction in humans, standards of sexual behavior, homosexuality, sexually transmitted diseases, contraception, abortion and so on.
Arizona law requires that districts that do offer sex ed must teach a preference for childbirth and adoption over abortion and inform students about date-rape drugs, dating violence, AIDS and other dangers.
State law requires textbooks that mention abortion to state that childbirth and adoption are preferable alternatives.
Sex ed controversies in Gilbert, Tempe an anomaly [azcentral.com]
[In Tempe, debate over a proposed two-week course in sex education] derailed when board Vice President Moses Sanchez challenged a section of the curriculum that explains birth-control devices. Sanchez asked whether an intrauterine device, or IUD, should be called an abortion method instead of a birth-control device because it works by preventing implantation of fertilized eggs.
Arizona law and board policy say a sex-ed curriculum must:
Emphasize the power of the individual to control one's own behavior.
Instruct students on how to say no to unwanted advances and peer pressure.
Teach students about the prevention of dating abuse.Stress that sexually-transmitted diseases have severe consequences.
Discuss the consequences of pregnancy.
Promote respect.
Stress abstinence until the students are mature adults.
Promote childbirth and adoption over abortion.
Instructional materials may not:
Promote a homosexual lifestyle.
Portray homosexuality as a positive alternative lifestyle.Include tests with questions about students' or their parents' beliefs regarding sex, family life, morals, values or religion.
Tempe Union High district still debating sex-ed program [azcentral.com]
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Indeed - the page actually mentions the rhythm method, the Catholic's favoured method.
Someone please help me understand. How is the rhythm method not a form of contraception and as such just as much a sin as any other method of contraception?
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Indeed - the page actually mentions the rhythm method, the Catholic's favoured method.
Someone please help me understand. How is the rhythm method not a form of contraception and as such just as much a sin as any other method of contraception?
Because they have faith that it isn't. Facts don't matter when you have faith.
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Please cite an example of "removing" any science that disputes AGW. In fact, they tend to be pointed out, along with their serious flaws:
https://agwobserver.wordpress.... [wordpress.com]
Re:Religion is the last straw (Score:5, Interesting)
The international perception of the US changed a lot in the past decade or two. When I was young, in the 80s, the US was the place to be. It was the dream land. Freedom, peace and the promise that hard work will make you a rich man.
Today the US are regarded not unlike the USSR was while it still existed, with suspicion and caution. Don't get them pissed off, you know what they can do, and what they have done... Plus, and that hurts me personally quite a bit since I do know a lot of people in the US and found a few very good friends there, the whole religious bit paints the people as somewhat dim witted, naive, if not gullible or even outright dumb. The general sentiment is that in the USSR, the people at least knew their government was bullshitting them, but in the US, they succeeded. The people actually believe that they're living in paradise while in reality they are trapped in a hellhole.
But nobody really would say that openly. Sure, we joke about the US behind its back and make fun of it (mostly the government, less so the people), but nobody would dare say it to their face. In general, the US are regarded as the international politics version of the dim witted schoolyard bully. Nobody would dare speak up against him since we all know he can beat us up good, and if we suck up to him we might even get some spoils when he rips off someone's lunch money, but when he ain't around we're much more happy and we make jokes about how dumb he really is.
It's sad, actually. Mostly because I do know a lot of very good, very intelligent people in the US. What's sadder is that most of them are desperately trying to find employment in Europe with the goal to leave the whole religious cesspool behind them...
Re:Religion is the last straw (Score:5, Insightful)
The general sentiment is that in the USSR, the people at least knew their government was bullshitting them, but in the US, they succeeded. The people actually believe that they're living in paradise while in reality they are trapped in a hellhole.
I live in the U.S. I've also spent significant time living outside of the U.S. I agree with you that there are many, many things about the U.S. to criticize, and elements of its foreign policy are quite criminal.
However, your statement there is more than a little extreme. Many U.S. citizens do recognize that there are serious flaws (a lot of them post frequently on Slashdot, for example), though admittedly the pro-American rhetoric is stupid and ignorant at times.
On the other hand, I think compared to many years of life under the USSR, Americans are not "trapped in a hellhole." The USSR was in existence for roughly 70 years. Of those 70 years, the first 30 under Stalin experienced not only random purges and murders from the government, but largescale famines, along with economic and political uncertainty. For the last 15 years or so of the USSR, there was a gradual decline that saw economic conditions, shortages, etc. that are unlike anything generally seen in the U.S.
So, yeah, basically if by the "USSR" you want to only count the 25 years or so from the late 50s to the early 70s when conditions were pretty good, yeah the U.S. currently isn't much better than that.
But to say that U.S. people are gullible or dumb because they don't recognize -- unlike the USSR -- that the government is bad... well, we don't have random purges of people we know happening every other week... ya know, like Stalin did. In case you're unaware, Stalin ordered the murder of what historians estimate to be between 20 and 60 million people, most of them his own countrymen.
When everybody knows someone who "was disappeared" by the government, you can bet that citizens would become more suspicious of anything that government says.
In contrast, it's only in the past few years that it's become somewhat acceptable for the President of the U.S. to outright kill American citizens without a trial. Our leaders haven't deliberately killed tens of millions of citizens.
The only similar period in the U.S. that experienced turmoil on the level of most of the history of the USSR was probably during the Great Depression. So 10-15 years of the past century, compared to most years in the entire history of the USSR. And even then, the government wasn't going around killing people.
So yeah, I think some Americans are deluded about how "great" their country is, and they don't realize how many things have decayed or what rights have been restricted. But to call it a "hellhole" compared to the USSR where the citizens were smart enough to recognize how bad they had it... well, if the U.S. actually ever gets as bad as the world of Stalinist purges, I bet the American people would be smart enough to have the kind of cynicism you expect.
Re: (Score:3)
You just proved the parent's point.
Well, that's probably good, since I actually agreed with 90% of what the parent said.
Indoctrination 101: "someone says something bad about your country, don't listen, defend!"
Logical fallacies 101: " If someone says something that's 90% true, but then includes demonstrably false assertions or makes unnuanced analogies, you should still act like that person is 100% correct. If anyone attempts to present a more nuanced perspective, you should immediately level an ad hominem attack, asserting that the person is obviously stupid and brainwashed."
Re: (Score:2)
I can't speak for you, but knowing how hormones work in a young body (being a former young body myself), I sure as hell would want my daughter to know EVERYTHING THERE EFFING IS about contraception. Preferably BEFORE she can get pregnant in the first place.
Re:WTF ? (Score:5, Funny)
I could conceive of this in a sex ed class.. ..
Only if there was a practical exam at the end of the year.
Re: (Score:2)
"The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the tree of knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just keep your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions."
-- Frank Zappa