Accused Ottawa Cyberbully Facing 181 Charges Apologizes 140
Freshly Exhumed writes The day Robert James Campbell quit his job, he went home and started plotting revenge against everyone he felt had wronged him in life. He says he didn't leave his Ottawa apartment for seven months. The online campaign of harassment and hatred he's accused of launching spanned more than a decade. He is accused of creating fake online profiles to destroy reputations in short order, presenting his targets to the world as child predators, members of a Nazi party, exotic dancers and prostitutes. Police roused Campbell on the morning of July 31 and arrested him on 181 charges of criminal harassment, identity theft and defamatory libel. Campbell publicly apologized to his alleged victims and says he has instructed his lawyer to file a guilty plea.
so he's with the Media? (Score:4, Funny)
sounds like the MO of any "reporter" these days, filling out the ideological biases of their employer.
Traditional crimes (Score:5, Informative)
Notice that they didn't have to invent any new charges for this just because it was on the Internet.
Current law covers all this sort of thing.
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Canada's legal system is based on enforcing the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law which allows us a bit more flexibility for circumstances that were unanticipated when the laws were created.
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Say what? Canada is common-law based, same as UK, US, Commonwealth nations etc. I guess what you mean is that the judges might look at intent more closely...
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Common-law advises Canadian law, it does not dictate it. If anything the US has a greater obligation under treaty law though the courts often choose to ignore that part of the US constitution. maliqua was right, spirit of the law comes before common-law.
Also, this guy is NUTS for pleading guilty - the law is a complete violation of freedom of expression rights.
Re:Traditional crimes (Score:5, Informative)
Free expression includes this?
Anonymously emailing false comments that a woman was having marital problems
Suggesting another woman had an abortion instead of a miscarriage
Creating a fake Facebook profile of a man whom he said was abused as a child
Falsely suggesting a man had committed crimes and that information was sent to relatives outside the country
Anonymously mailing false comments that a man supported the Nazi party and was a pedophile
Making false claims that a woman had produced pornography and engaged in bizarre sexual acts
Creating a false online profile suggesting a woman worked as an exotic dancer
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Can't believe I have to defend this...but...
2. Is a true statement. Abortion comes from the word abortio and aborior which both have the meaning of miscarriage. And "abortion" as people refer to in pro-choice arguments, etc is an induced abortion, i.e. an induced miscarriage.
Re:Traditional crimes (Score:4, Interesting)
And in modern English as commonly used "abortion" means a purposefully induced miscarriage, just like you yourself state above, while "miscarriage" means an unintended one. Etymology of words is fascinating, but it does not make a statement that is false by their current meaning any less so. And it definitely does not excuse someone who's purposefully trying to deceive.
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Freedom of expression does include this as it relates to criminal law up to the point where hate speech is involved. Civil law covers slander / libel so making false claims is not without consequence, but it's not up to criminal judges/law to determine the "truth" of a statement or the "bullying" nature of a comment. Harassment is often misunderstood as limiting freedom of expression - but it doesn't limit expression specifically, rather a pattern of behaviour that could endanger the safety of another ind
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You think hate speech is not protected? Of course it is.
Not in Canada. In the US most definitely it's protected. In Canada it's a crime. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Re:Traditional crimes (Score:5, Informative)
No, it isn't.
Freedom of speech does not mean you have no repercussion for lying about people. It never has/
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No, it isn't.
Freedom of speech does not mean you have no repercussion for lying about people. It never has/
Canada doesn't have freedom of speech.
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LOL - that law was completely toothless/ineffective which is why this was enacted:
CONSTITUTION ACT, 1982 (80)
PART I
CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS
Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:
Guarantee of Rights and Freedoms
Marginal note:Rights and freedoms in Canada
1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably j
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More simply put, freedom of speech is the right to freely express your opinion as just that and not the right to misrepresent lies as the truth. Apparently Ronny Raygun eliminated that distinction in the US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F... [wikipedia.org] his singular greatest achievement, if you are a lying psychopath corporate executive.
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Also, this guy is NUTS for pleading guilty - the law is a complete violation of freedom of expression rights.
So if I was to repetitively punch you in the face until caving your skull in, you are perfectly OK with that and me being allowed to do it?
After all, I am just flexing my freedom of expression rights by executing a public performance play. It's hardly my fault the plot results in your characters death :P
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Freedom of expression is not unlimited. "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice." that trumps freedom of expression every time.
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That is what I thought too, but you were pretty clear that harming other people doesn't come into play for Robert Campbell, so naturally I assumed harming others wouldn't come into play for me either.
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Physical harm and emotional harm are not the same and you were just being hyperbolic.
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No they're not the same, but that does not mean that the latter doesn't exist.
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No they're not the same, but that does not mean that the latter doesn't exist.
I never claimed it didn't exist - just that "bullying" laws violate rights while slander/libel laws are for false claim disputes between citizens where they belong. I'm not condoning the behaviour - I'm just saying that government has no place in criminalizing it.
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Harassment is only if the behaviour is targeted at an individual or identifiable grohup of individuals - not sure that was the case here (seems like the guy was just an asshole in general). It would also have to either be threatening in nature, physical in nature, or on one of the 11 grounds of discrimination.
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Say what? Canada is common-law based, same as UK, US, Commonwealth nations etc. I guess what you mean is that the judges might look at intent more closely...
I mean exactly what i said, common-law refers to a system of consistency basing decisions of how crimes are handled and how evidence is weighted against established president in previous similar cases, and is designed to ensure consistent and equal treatment of similar circumstances going forward.
Common-law systems can be enforced by following the letter of the law, or the spirit of the law. In the united states the letter is followed more rigidly than in Canada. Both systems have merit and both systems ar
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Wow. I didn't realize linguists were actually embracing this. OK, cool. But it just seems shorthand for removing the word "of" or "of a" which accomplishes the same thing.
I was late to work because hangover = I was late to work because of a hangover.
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You can write "LOL :-)" on Twitter, but if you actually say "lol smiley face" out loud you sound like a developmentally challenged ten year old.
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Backward, no. Different, yes. Some call it the best of both worlds - french inherited civil law is very precise, allowing clear and fair resolution of conflicts.
Quebec law is unique in Canada because Quebec is the only province in Canada to have a juridical legal system (pertaining to the administration of justice) under which civil matters are regulated by French-heritage civil law. Public law, criminal law and other federal law operate according to Canadian common law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q... [wikipedia.org]
Re:Traditional crimes (Score:5, Informative)
I think the term you are looking for is 'civil law', not 'letter of the law'. US legal system at the federal level is heavily influenced by common law, as it is in most states. States which cover areas originally colonized by France or Spain have a tradition of civil law.
https://www.law.berkeley.edu/l... [berkeley.edu]
http://www.economist.com/blogs... [economist.com]
The history of common law in the US is why you'll hear in trial coverage or in shows like law & order, lawyers will use precedents when raising their objections or filing motions. This is usually called 'case law', as it is law which hasn't been written by the legislature, but which has come into common practice as a result of a judge interpreting a written law and setting a precedent. If subsequent judges agree to that ruling, eventually it because sort the way things are, until the Supreme Court weighs in, or the legislature spells it out (in a statute).
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Canada, save Quebec, is common law. (As I recall, New Orleans also has a Continental-based civil code like Quebec, both being former colonies of France).
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Yes, there is also strong civil law traditions in California and the Southwest US because of Spanish colonization, which I alluded to in my post.
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I think the influence may have dissapated, but i had a real estate law professor once upon a time who was a member of the Bar in California and was adamant about the influence of civil law in the state.
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I should say, that this had a lot of bearing on the status of California, the South West and Louisiana being Community Property states. Washington and Wisconsin and Idaho are as well. The status of most of these states as community property states is a direct result of a system inherited from Spanish rule.
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Louisiana (not just New Orleans) used to have that kind of civil code...I'm sure there are some old laws on the books that relate but for the most we fall in line with the rest of the US. It's a common misconception around here. Then again we're so corrupt it doesn't REALLY matter what legal system we use...if you piss the wrong person off you end up in jail for unsubstantiated charges. (see http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/09/lawsuit_claims_da_walter_reed.html)
Re:Traditional crimes (Score:4, Funny)
The corruption sounds terrible. You should move. I hear Chicago is nice.
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Close but not quite.....
Spirit of the law for common people.
Letter of the law for corporations or the elite.
Example:
Common guy finds a way to not break any laws but get something for free. He gets arrested anyways and charged with some catch-all law. tomorrow morning a new law is created to fill the loophole. (punishment + a new specific law). Why? Spirit of the prevents screwing your neighbors.
Big corporation finds a way to screw people right to their face by car
Re:Traditional crimes (Score:4, Funny)
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what a lazy jerk (Score:5, Funny)
Hell, he couldn't even bother enough to steal a tank.[2]
[1,2] Both of these things actually happened. And they weren't even in Florida. Look it up.
Right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, he's sorry alright. Sorry he got caught.
Remorse is possible for a bad decision made in the heat of the moment. This man, on the other hand, was deliberate and meticulous in his abuse of several people that lasted over a *decade*. These are not the actions of someone who made a mistake, these are the actions of a sociopath.
Re:Right. (Score:5, Insightful)
because he knows he is guilty and likely will be found guilty, costing the crown less money to convict you provides some leniency
Is that how it works there? (Score:1)
because he knows he is guilty and likely will be found guilty, costing the crown less money to convict you provides some leniency
Ah! See, here in the States, decent legal representation is a luxury. So, the prosecutors pile on charges - like EVERYONE gets charged with "resisting arrest" even if you kneel down with your hands behind your back and cuff yourself.
Because, the LESS legal shit you have to deal with, the less money you have to go into debt with and the less chance of going to jail with a public defender. A public defender is some lawyer who needs court room experience and wants you out of the way as fast as possible so he
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Well sometimes the courts are easier on a person if they admit to do what they did and apologize for it. Vs wasting the courts time trying to convince them that he did didn't do it, or was just in doing it.
Re:Right. (Score:4, Insightful)
Entering a guilty plea differs from offering an unsolicited apology. Sure, I might pragmatically enter a guilty plea, but the idea of any sort of sincere apology after engaging in a decade long campaign of harassment? It just doesn't even make sense.
I don't know if Canada has a version of the "insanity" defense, and I know that very rarely works in the US, but I'd have to say that no sane person would waste that much time systematically trashing their former coworkers over a stupid job. That dude snapped - I'd call his coworkers lucky he didn't literally hunt them down one by one and torture them to death in his basement.
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Canada does have a definition of insanity, using the M'Naghten rule (sometimes referred to as the McNaughton rule) which has evolved into two principles, either of which defines an insane person as:
1. The accused did not understand the nature and quality of his act, or
2. The accused did understand the nature and quality of his act, but did not understand it was wrong.
In practice it is difficult for a defendant to successfully claim insanity unless it is upheld by serious medical evaluation.
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Self-interest. Nothing more.
I doubt he even understands what remorse is, only that a guilty plea is a good strategy when there's very little hope of acquittal.
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So... let's say he's a sociopath.
That means the problem is one of mental health. An untreatable personality disorder, no less. How does that affect the correct course of action here?
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So... let's say he's a sociopath.
That means the problem would be one of mental health.
There, fixed that for you (since we are starting from a hypothetical.)
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I am taking the preposition offered by the grandparent as an absolute truth, and trying to use deductive logic on it for useful implications.
I in no way am clinically analyzing this individual, and actually asserting the preposition.
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That means the problem is one of mental health. An untreatable personality disorder, no less. How does that affect the correct course of action here?
Quite a bit actually, of course he'll have to pay for his own psychiatric evaluation to prove it. The government will only pay for it in some cases where the person is obviously a danger to themselves or others(such the killing of Tim McLean. [wikipedia.org]) If however a recogonized individual(not a GP) states that he does have a psychiatric disorder, it can become a mitigating circumstance. This could lead to anyone of the following: Reduced sentence, confined to mental institution for the remainder of his life(basica
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Just an FYI, our system of law doesn't typically consider "sociopathic" cause for a plea of insanity, because they are in conscious control of your faculties, those faculties do not work normally to generate sensible and healthy behavior. Lack of empathy plus risk taking are a perfect formula for committing crime.
My theory: as socioeconomic factors have become increasingly limited as causes of crime, by our increased collective understanding and usage of sociology, the importance of sociopathic disorders,
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As far as I've heard, severe personality disorders like anti-social personality disorder(i.e. sociopathy) do not have effective treatements, yet.
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The DSM designation is "Antisocial personality disorder", and yes it is. It's just one with no known physiological cause.
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Remorse is possible for any bad decision, or any series of them made over any period of time. There's no magical threshold - of either time or severity - where remorse suddenly becomes impossible.
Maybe this guy is genuinely sorry, and maybe he's not. I don't know, and unless you personally know him, neither do you.
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Maybe this guy is genuinely sorry, and maybe he's not. I don't know, and unless you personally know him, neither do you.
Given the limits of what anyone can ever really know of another person's intent and thoughts, arguably true. Nonetheless, the observed evidence is a pretty good indicator.
If he felt remorse at any point before incarceration, it wasn't sufficient to actually make him stop his bullying and harrassing. As such, it's not relevant as "remorse", unless you choose to cling to a particularly fut
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He said he was sorry only after he was caught and brought up on charges. This is basically "death bed confession sorry" where you do a bunch of bad things, say you're sorry at the end, and assume that you're now fine. My young kids try this all the time ("You hit your brother." "Sorry! Now give me another chance?") and it doesn't work for them. They have the excuse that they're kids (who tend to test the limits of acceptable behavior in an attempt to see what they can and can't do). He has no such excu
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Or he's taking personal responsibility and accepting whatever awaits him because he knew what he did was wrong.
Unlike the guy who deliberately put his equipment in someone else's closet, attempted to hide that equipment, then whined when he was caught and tried to claim he was the victim before he killed himself.
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i'm not defending his actions ... But I feel, in some small way, like I can put myself in his shoes. I was physically and emotionally tormented through 6 years of my early years at school. It had a profound effect on who I am today. I remember down to the detail every one of these incidents and I have vivid memories of the perpetrators.. Over the years I have imagined who these people must have grown up to be and delighted in the fact that they probably became menial laborers... I even had one of them in
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Agreed - I have no idea what it is about kids, but they can be the absolute worst to other kids. Maybe it's bad parenting or the lack of parenting, I don't know. Even looking slightly different from everyone else is seemingly an excuse for torment. When those bully kids grow up, I guess some of them don't magically grow out of it. I always figured most of them became cops or joined the military -- what better way to assert authority over people than having a mandate to do so? But i guess it's the parenting.
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I get this feeling when you hear about those kids who were bullied until they snapped and went on a killing spree. I was tormented all through high school (before that too, but by a different group of people). One of the things they would do is arrive at my class before me and block the door to the classroom. They weren't in my class and they'd let everyone else through, but when I tried to get in, they'd close ranks so I couldn't get by as they hurled insults. One day, I literally saw red. And I'm not
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Well, then the bullies won.
The children that harmed you did so because their brains didn't quite have all the wiring finished. Prefrontal lobes just didn't have the necessary growth at that point to allow them to see consequences of their actions or to really feel much empathy. All children, while described as innocent can also be thought of from the other direction. They're assholes and borderline sociopaths. That includes you as a child. Yes, you.
Look, the reason that you remember those things ove
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Remorse is possible for a bad decision made in the heat of the moment. This man, on the other hand, was deliberate and meticulous in his abuse of several people that lasted over a *decade*.
People are routinely genuinely sorry for things they've spent decades doing (or more often than not, not doing). Do you think it's ever a good idea to waste a *decade* of your life plotting stupid revenge? There's so many better things you could do in 10 years, even if he didn't get caught it was a stupid waste of time.
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If he spent 10 years doing this, had a mysterious change of heart, and apologized it would be one thing.
Spending 10 years doing this and apologizing once you've been arrested and are facing charges, though, is something entirely different.
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We don't know that. The problem is that past decisions affect how you see the world. Admitting you made a bad decision has considerable emotional cost, which is why people try to avoid doing so. In the right circumstances this
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Hes so very very sorry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... [youtube.com]
Warning, there may be an advert
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Shudap and put that blind fold back on... "Ready"..... "Aim".....
True Scotsman found for cyberbullying (Score:1)
"That's adorable. I'm gonna send an autographed photo signed 'To my number one fan'."
This guy though, this Campbell passed name-calling about nine thousand miles back.
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was it maybe nine-thousand and one miles back?
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Only five hundred, but he walked them...
only one way to deal with evil trolls (Score:2)
lure them out of their cave as the sun rises
So? (Score:3)
So what? Crazy people do crazy stuff... Get him some psychological help. I don't see this as something you should be put in prison for. There is very little that you can do online that I'd say is worthy of jail time. Maybe if you hacked a reactor or something...
Online libel can be quite harmful (Score:5, Informative)
Poisoning Google searches for your targets can most certainly ruin lives, in many cases in an irrevocable fashion if the information gets republished far and wide. I don't see why prison time should not be on the table.
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Identity Theft is not worthy of jail time?
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I've been through this (Score:5, Insightful)
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Names aren't globally unique identifiers. So if having one like yours associated with questionable activity is enough to screw you, you're screwed.
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A simple "Sorry, I need help" isn't nearly enough. These days your online reputation can be your most important asset. Can you imagine if one of the people he did this to got turned down for a job because their name showed up on a child porn site or pro-Nazi group in a standard background check?
I can, but that wouldn't be his fault — at least, not entirely. That would be at least as much the fault of whoever runs the background check system, and whoever uses it and trusts it. And meanwhile, at least some of the people he did this to did likely mistreat him, and at least some of the others will have been complicit in that mistreatment, if only by cooperating with it if not directly contributing in some fashion. That obviously doesn't make what he did right, but people rarely snap without bein
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However in my case the guy also signed me up for magazines and some record clubs (back when those were still a thing) and that
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How do you prove that someone started creating accounts in your name or signing up your e-mail address to all kinds of nasty groups? Most sites won't disclose the IP address of the person who signed you up without some sort of legal order and I don't think "A guy left our forum in a huff and the next day I started getting signed up for stuff" is sufficient grounds to obtain one.
Wouldn't something like "freedom of information act" allow you to access _all_ information that is stored about you? For example the IP addresses of all accounts _in your name_?
At least he didn't snap and kill them all! (Score:3)
Especially in the US, a lot of these kinds of incidents end with the person getting a gun, going back to the office and wiping out those that have wronged them.
It is interesting to see how much pent-up anger must have been in this guy's head to spend the amount of time and effort he did "getting his revenge." I don't have access to the case details, but that must have been a LOT of name-calling and jokes. If the guy really didn't leave his apartment for 7 months, that kind of sets a new record for obsessive behavior. I'm envisioning a whole bookshelf full of methodical notes about his tormentors.
It doesn't excuse what he did, but it's kind of sad when stuff that should have been left behind in high school persists in the "adult" world. But it goes to show you that the quiet guy you're making fun of might be taking careful notes and biding his time. His co-workers must not have been too busy if they had all the time to crack jokes at his expense.
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I take it that these kinds of incident are vanishingly rare, then?
Or is it just that your definition of "a lot" is pretty much the same as "almost noone"?
Because, when all is said and done, the kind of shooting you describe is rare enough to make national news.
Which is not actually the same thing as "common"....
Accused Ottawa Cyberbully with 181 Charges ... (Score:2)
Louder: "There, I said it. They can just file a Google 'Forget about me' form and then it's all better. Can I go home now?"
An old saying (Score:2)
Re: What about his "victims'" actions? (Score:3, Interesting)
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Yeah, if you call "12 years of ongoing harassment and gross slander" "without a worry."
Re: What about his "victims'" actions? (Score:4, Informative)
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My boys will often fight (as siblings do). They're not subtle, but one kid will sometimes do something that annoys the other. The second retaliates with a punch or a kick which I see. The second gets in trouble while the first might get off. I don't punish based on "he did X and that's why I hit him" because that's just an open license to have one kid punch the other kid and then make up a reason to get the other kid in trouble. I'll always tell the puncher/kicker, "if you came to me to let me know wha
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Because they always are.
Now, just now, we have caught a bully in the action. Please don't spoil the moment.
What he did - i.e. reversed the role from victim to bully makes him a hero for all who are bullied. But no less a bully.
How he did it was a bit over the top. But that is irrelevant, as bullies always are over the top. At least from the victims' viewpoint.
I sincerely hope both parties learned their lessons. But I also know half of his victims hadn't even realized they had gone too far. Just like he him
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To be clear, not all of his victims harassed HIM in ANY way. I know one of them and she simply worked with him and never had any negative interactions with him.
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No, his response should have been proportional.
Bullying is always cowardice, not retribution or even justice.
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