US Arrests Son of Russian MP In Maldives For Hacking 176
First time accepted submitter ugen (93902) writes "The son of a Russian lawmaker has been arrested by the U.S. on charges of selling credit card information he stole by hacking into the computers of American retailers. Roman Seleznev, 30, was arrested overseas by the U.S. Secret Service on July 5 and was ordered detained today during a hearing in federal court in Guam, the Justice Department said in a statement."
Guam is in the Maldives now? (Score:3)
There's about a third of the globe between the two...
Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (Score:5, Informative)
Replying to myself - as it turns out, the plot thickens:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... [huffingtonpost.com]
Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (Score:4, Interesting)
Setting that aside, this does cut into the larger modern question of how to deal with cyber criminals who are based out of countries hostile to the US. There has always been the question about what to do with people who commit crimes in a country then flee to one without an extradition treaty, but increasingly we are having to deal with cases where the individual is actively committing crimes against the citizens of one country while being physically located in another.
Though that gets into some interesting and sticky territory when it comes to transnational companies and the horrors they have committed around the world... or at least it SHOULD be sticky.
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I've seen two different stories. 1) He was arrested in Maldives and taken to Guam, and 2) He was arrested in Guam. In any case, there's obviously enough confusion about the story that we're not getting accurate information. Given that, if he were arrested in Maldives, it's certainly possible that it was with the help of the local police and just not being reported.
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I just read this:
A Russian man, indicted in the Western District of Washington for hacking into point of sale systems at retailers throughout the United States was arrested this weekend and transported to Guam for an initial appearance, announced U.S. Attorney Jenny A. Durkan. ROMAN VALEREVICH SELEZNEV, 30, of Moscow, also known as “Track2” in the criminal carding underground, was indicted in March 2011, for operating several carding forums that engaged in the distribution of stolen credit card information. At his first appearance in Guam today, SELEZNEV was ordered detained pending a further hearing scheduled for July 22, 2014.
here: http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2014/07/russian-hacker-arrested-in-2010-broadway-grill-data-breach/
as part of the announcement of the arrest.
The "was arrested and transported to Guam" does not sound like he was "arrested" in Guam, and not mentioning where he was "arrested" sound a lot like this was actually a kidnapping.
Just reading the headline of this story (the "arrested in Maledives") makes me sad:
Some (many?) americans do not seem to notice (or accept?) that there are other cou
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Yes, "arrested in Maldives" is one of the two conflicting stories I mentioned. I have also seen stories that said that he was arrested in Guam. The Maldives story seems to be coming from the Russians.
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"Actually a kidnapping"... I guess in an ideal world, nobody would ever break laws so we wouldn't need such unpleasant things as extradition treaties and such. However, we live in this reality and the situation is pretty simple. Mr. Seleznev was in Russia suing international communications media to commit crimes against American corporations and citizens. Had his activities been targeted against Russian corporations and citizens, he would still have been committing crimes; the same crimes. If Russia was unw
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Perhaps he was picked up in the Maldives and "escorted" to Guam, and then arrested in Guam? :)
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That seems to be precisely what his public defender is saying today (see elsewhere in this thread). And that it was done in cooperation with the Maldives government. So it looks like if there's a scandal here it would be the Maldives government breaking their own laws (although I personally have no clue if that would be illegal in the Maldives, or even what legal grounds would have been used)
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Interesting article on the details of what he's charged with [krebsonsecurity.com] here, with screenshots of the operation he stands accused of running.
While the details of the arrest are still hazy, one thing is clear - they've had this guy in their sights since 2011. It's not surprising that they issued a sealed indictment for him, mind you, that's not particularly unusual for a case like this where the subject is unlikely to be extradited and would avoid your jurisdiction if the indictment was public (nor is the US in any way
Re: Guam is in the Maldives now? (Score:1)
Investigating financial crimes was the original purpose of the secret service, protecting the president was added later.
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This is not the first time the United States does something similar, i.e. has the authorities in country A apprehend someone who is not accused of anything there, expel him from A without notifying the country of origin, and 'somehow' have US officials waiting to arrest the 'expelled' individual on 'international' ground.
US lawyers have consistently explained that this is somehow very different from illegal extradition/kidnapping which is explicitly condemned by the UN. It only looks the same. And I very
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An update [pacificnewscenter.com] today:
Clearer, although still ambiguous. We now kno
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I've got to think he was arrested/detained/etc in the Maldives. I can't imagine that he'd be stupid enough to visit Guam with a US indictment hanging over him.
Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (Score:4, Insightful)
Replying to myself - as it turns out, the plot thickens:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... [huffingtonpost.com]
Right, the US has gone completely off the rails in recent years. "oh, this guy stole some credit card numbers... Let's kidnap him, fly him out of the country and try him in some random court outside the country! Yea! Go USA!"
Seriously? It'd be one thing if he blew something up... but credit card fraud?
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Guam IS part of the US not some random court. He's been indicted in a federal court of the US.
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Replying to myself - as it turns out, the plot thickens:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... [huffingtonpost.com]
Right, the US has gone completely off the rails in recent years. "oh, this guy stole some credit card numbers... Let's kidnap him, fly him out of the country and try him in some random court outside the country! Yea! Go USA!"
Seriously? It'd be one thing if he blew something up... but credit card fraud?
CC fraud is a huge problem and a persistent one.
I'd bet this guy was doing fraudulent transactions in the volume of thousands per week, if not per day.
You may be thinking "stuff em, it's only the banks money" but you forget two things. It has a knockon effect to the rest of the economy as the fraudulently transferred money is taken out of circulation and secondly that through hidden fees like merchant service and interchange fees, eventually the banks get the money back from you.
We aren't talking
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So now that it turns out that this was done in conjunction with the Maldives government, what's your deal?
Is it that you prefer to leave hackers and carders out there robbing people and businesses?
I'm not the biggest fan of America (actually look forward to renouncing my citizenship as soon as I'm able), but seriously, I think you prematurely Godwinned.
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I RTFA'd and Maldives weren't mentioned
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Yeah, that particular article doesn't mention the Maldives. Dozens of others do identify the Maldives as the site of the arrest, most of them quoting the Russian government calling his arrest in the Maldives a kidnapping.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/us-ac... [ibtimes.co.uk]
Where was Maldives law enforcement? (Score:3)
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Snorkeling.
Hm... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives?
It looks like they took that power on July 5th.
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In geopolitics, taking powers you do not actually have always leads to a reaction. Wait for it.
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I believe that is what they do. I don't say "we" any more. It ain't no part of me.
They don't even feel they have to use the magic T(errorist) or C(hild porn) words any more.
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Yes they can according to US law.
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You are thinking of the Malvinas.
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No it isn't. You're thinking of Islas Malvinas (the Argentine name for The Falkland Islands). The islands just off Argentina.
As opposed to the Maldives, which are in the Indian Ocean - Arabian Sea.
Miles apart - which also appears to be a description of geographically where your geography lessons were held and where you were when at school...
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Malvinas and Maldives are different islands, and very, very far apart. Where did you study?
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He studied at a terrific British school, but he missed that day in geography class because he was out the night before watching the fireworks and celebrating Guy Fieri Day.
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I'm asking this out of personal interest, I'm European too, and I would like my children to study in a school that would allow them to place well-known island groups in the right ocean.
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I heard GOP hopeful Herman Cain called it Malda-vini-vinia-stan.
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Since they decided to give it to themselves.
They've been sending in people to do snatch and grabs for years now. Then they send them to a 3rd country which can use 'enhanced' interrogation which would be illegal in the US.
And then they say that anything is legal because these people are enemy combatants who don't wear uniforms, and therefore not covered under a
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Citation's please. You point to no evidence they didn't have permissions or treaties with country's you seem to be an expert on snatch and grabs so please were the evidence. I know for a fact Russia government officals were blaming the USA for a missile attack when in fact it was a meteorite and you want us to believe what you say>> im not the smartest guy in the world but I know a troll when I see one.
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Pakistan was warned we didn't need permission we took it. We also killed Kaddafi in his own country. Justice served babe . So your example wasn't a very good one.
Re: Hm... (Score:1)
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The simple fact us America is full of self entitled douchebags who believe it is their right to grant themselves permission for anything they like.
Though there are many here, the country is not actually "full" of them. It just so happens that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Re:Hm... (Score:4, Informative)
Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives? Does that mean they can just go into arbitrary countries and arrest people arbitrarily?
Not unless the country in question authorizes it. If the Maldives didn't, then it's kidnapping. If they did, then it's deportation, and entirely kosher.
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It's called the Kyoto protocol. US keeps promising to sign (leaving government-less Somalia as the final non-signatory) if Maldives grants them one last favor.
Hm... (Score:1)
"Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives? Does that mean they can just go into arbitrary countries and arrest people arbitrarily?
You must be new to international law. The U.S. has had an extradition treaty with Maldives."
An extradition treaty allows the police of the local country to arrest someone on their own soil for a crime allegedly committed against another country, and hand them over to that country.
Normally, the local country goes through a process of checking whether there is p
Kidnapping. (Score:5, Interesting)
When I had heard that the Russians were calling this kidnapping, I was doubtful -- but now, not so sure. We really do exact our justice anywhere we want to, don't we?
What happened to extradition treaties and such? When did it become "stuff them in a van and drive!"?
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Kidnapping. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Sounds just like the United States.
Gimme a break. The Russians are no where near as bad as the US.
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lol
Hate to break it to you ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate to break it to you, but the phrase above remains true if you replace "Russians" with any country powerful enough to get away with this kind of behavior.
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But there isn't a clause in most country's constitutions about this, and of course nations with little power are also often corrupt and unwilling to cooperate in international law enforcement, generally more so than powerful nations.
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Reading comprehension problems?
I think the guy just replied to GGP on the part saying " They have a convenient clause in their constitution which lets them refuse to extradite anybody, no matter what" which is exactly what Article 61 is.
The US isn't just unwilling to cooperate ... (Score:2)
The US actively threatens countries with military invasion if they engage in certain forms of international law enforcement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A... [wikipedia.org]
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This.
Plus, ever since Snowden, the US is actively putting pressure on anyone in power in Russia - any Russians in positions of power with so much as a parking ticket in the US is on an extradition list.
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The Amerikans are masters of aggressive aggression when it comes to law enforcement: the place is corrupt from top to bottom, and it manifests itself in a complete lack of desire to cooperate in international law enforcement. They have a convenient clause in their secret laws which lets them do whatever the fuck they feel like.
Not arresting Amerika's own kriminal klass is just another way for the notoriously erratic and thin-skinned 1% to poke the 99% in the eye and annoy us.
file under, sauce/goose, sauce/g
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Not arresting Russia's own cybercriminals is just another way for the notoriously erratic and thin-skinned Putin to poke the West in the eye and annoy us.
Now the guy was arrested in Guam, a US territory not the Maldives but I cant help but think this was also a ploy to get leverage on Russia. Maybe setting the scene for a good old prisoner swap... Seeing as the guy is the son of a member of the State Duma (house of parliament) so he's the son of someone important, The US will give him a nice trial, sentence him to prison an then ring Putin and offer him a friendly deal, Seleznev will "serve" the rest of his sentence in Russia and in exchange, the Russians gi
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This is easily one of the best posts I've read all day.
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i expect that the United States already had notified Maldives and gotten approval for extradition, long before he was arrested. After all, they indicted him in 2011, so they had plenty of time to determine his whereabouts and travel patterns.
Re:Kidnapping. (Score:4)
TFA says he was arrested in Guam (a US territory). The "kidnapped in the Maldives" thing seems to be coming from the Russian media, which isn't exactly the most trustworthy source [rsf.org] on the planet (but at least it's a lot better than North Korea! ;) )
Not like the US is a bed of roses - its #46 standing puts it below countries like Botswana and Papua New Guinea, only one place above Haiti. But compared to Russia....
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According to his public defender [pacificnewscenter.com]:
1. He was arrested in Guam.
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In theory, they're in effect.
In practice, your government simply ignores them, or strong arms the country in question.
America has ceased to be about the rule of law, just about what they want, and what they're willing to do. The laws, treaties, and demands of other countries is simply deemed irrelevant.
On an international scale, the US is more or less a rogue state which does as it pleases. And that is truly alarming, because the global message is "we don't g
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1. The US and Russia don't have an extradition treaty. Russia, in fact, doesn't extradite their citizens, period. So, that option is moot.
2. If the Maldives decided to hand him over to the US, that's the Maldives' call. They can deport people to wherever they please. Again, no violation of treaty, since the Maldives and Russia (and the Maldives and the US) don't have an extradition treaty.
3. If he was grabbed without the consent of the Maldivian (?) government, then that would constitute kidnapping ther
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The US Mercenary Corps (8 Marines + 500 mercenaries) went in to Derna to effect regime change. That was in 1805.
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Not exactly new, or even news. The (US) Marines' Hymn opens with the lines:
From the halls of Montezuma To the shores of Tripoli...
Referring, IIRC, in the case of the shores of Tripoli, to where the Barbary Pirates took refuge while raiding shipping in the Mediterranean.
The US Marine Corp went in to Tripoli to root out the pirates. That was in 1812.
The Marine Corps (it has an "s" in it-it isn't a business) isn't exactly known for arresting people. And in 1812 they were nothing more than naval infantry, which is why they went to the Barbary Coast. They were protecting American- and other states'- shipping. You know, kind of like what the US, France, Great Britain, and even Russia are doing right now off the Somali coast. The assertion you are trying to make is a very tenuous one.
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And another Executive Branch agency just went to the Maldives to protect American (and other states') commerce (very much related to shipping as the purpose of said shipping was to engage in commerce. So how is his analogy "very tenuous"?
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Ah yes, the typical liberal answer to debate. What exactly is cruel? And who are you to decide they are wrong?
Imperial Police (Score:5, Insightful)
What in the hell are the US police doing arresting anyone in a foreign country? Is the Maldives part of the empire now?
And, yes, the Russians are totally correct in calling this kidnapping. Look for some poor American tourist or businessman to be nabbed in a tit-for-tat.
Re:Imperial Police (Score:5, Funny)
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What did the Russians call it when Putin poisoned diplomats he didn't like?
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More to come I'm afraid...
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I understand why Russians don't mention it. But what about the "fellow travelers" like the GP?
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Respecting territorial sovereignty is for when other countries can do something about it. A small island nation of a few hundred thousand people need not apply.
Still, it seems a bit excessive to do an extradition raid for someone who is apparently accused of hacking into zoo and deli websites. His relation to the Russian MP is probably what has earned him the special attention, part of Obama's plan to punish Russia. The message is clear, "Invade its allies and America will spoil your vacation."
What do you
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I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate but I'm assuming that the US has an extradition treaty with Maldives.
The US has a fairly responsible justice system when it comes to this. If a person from Russia/Nigeria/a country with a dubious court system is stealing credit card info in the US/Canada/EU I think it's absolutely appropriate for one of the latter countries to seek that individual's arrest when that person enters a jurisdiction with an extradition treaty.
So for me the US having the Maldives' police
Arrested overseas? (Score:2, Funny)
I understand that he did something wrong, but begin arrested overseas by the U.S. Secret Service? The U.S.A. is acting like the mafia these days, no country is off-limits and frontiers don't exist.
Next up: the U.S. Secret Service arrests E.T. on his home planet for an unpaid long-distance call.
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>> [...] U.S. Secret Service arrests E.T. on his home planet for an unpaid long-distance call.
Pipe dream.
We lack the budget to get there, otherwise we would. Be realistic, please.
Peter Graves, not $cientology-boy (Score:2)
The Secretary will disavow any knowledge of their actions.
See, extraordinary rendition is COOL, just like of teevee!
And the IMF are always the GOOD guys, so it's OK.
Secret Service job description (Score:2)
The US Secret Service is chartered with two utterly unrelated duties:
1) Investigation of financial crimes such as counterfeiting and fraud.
2) Protection of the US protected class of untouchable leaders, as well as visiting foreign dignitaries.
I don't see violation of the rights of third party nationals in foreign lands anywhere in their charter. Surely there are normal cooperative channels to bring the case to the attention of the law enforcement agencies of the foreign lands and also the third party govern
Re:Secret Service job description (Score:4, Insightful)
The US Secret Service is chartered with two utterly unrelated duties:
1) Investigation of financial crimes such as counterfeiting and fraud.
2) Protection of the US protected class of untouchable leaders, as well as visiting foreign dignitaries.
I don't see violation of the rights of third party nationals in foreign lands anywhere in their charter. Surely there are normal cooperative channels to bring the case to the attention of the law enforcement agencies of the foreign lands and also the third party governments.
Violation of the sovereignty of the US by attacking it or its citizens does not seem to be a part of this case.
1. This falls clearly under #1, investigation of financial crimes.
2. He was indicted in 2011. If he were, say, a UK citizen (for example), the US would have put in an extradition request, and the UK would have (following a hearing, assuming there was credible evidence) extradited him. Same if the alleged crime had taken place in the UK, and he were a US citizen in the US.
3. Russia doesn't extradite their citizens, period, and, even if they did, there's no extradition treaty between the US and Russia. Therefore, no, there aren't any "normal cooperative channels" involved.
4. If the Maldives government (and I have to assume he was arrested there, otherwise he'd be a complete idiot, knowing that he had been indicted in the US, to visit Guam) consented to his arrest and transfer to the US, that's entirely kosher. The Maldives doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US (they don't have one with anyone, as far as I know, which might have been a reason that Mr. Seleznev decided to vacation there), but that doesn't mean that they're not allowed to extradite people, just that they're not obliged to.
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because America... Therefore, bad.
So which is it going to be? (Score:2, Funny)
This story pits dueling Slashdot hot-button knee-jerk outrage topics head-to-head: 1) Evil US oligarchy (I had to throw that one in as it is the new "hot" word to use), in a show if Imperialism kidnaps Russian citizen from foreign country, or 2) criminal is able to avoid arrest for five years due to his ties to government (oligarchical) power that allows Russia to stonewall their end of a bi-lateral agreement.
Which will it be? Evil Imperialism or special treatment for those in power? Where will the outra
51? (Score:1)
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Maldives isn't a US territory. They used to be a UK one before they got their independence in 1965. Perhaps you were thinking of the Mariana Islands?
Next law (Score:1)
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We did not indict him for being a politician's son. We indicted him for committing crimes. Personally, I find it ridiculous that diplomats get blanket immunity from prosecution but I fully understand the reasoning behind it. Now we have people suggesting that not only do accredited diplomats get immunity, but any politician? Seriously?
Smiley (Score:2)
Prisoner exchange? (Score:2)
RBN? (Score:3)
I wonder if this is the same guy who was supposed to have been leading the Russian Business Network. There were/are a lot of rumors that his father was someone well-connected inside of the Russian government. It would explain how they've operated with impunity how long they have.
What is hilarious is that (Score:3)
this was also submitted to the firehose as "US Kidnaps Son of Russian MP", where the post alleges that the US extradited him to Guam under false pretenses.
Wonder which spin is the correct one?
Good Morning, Edward (Score:1)
Gangster tactics (Score:2)
Russian Member of Parliament (MP) (Score:1)
FYI, MP = Member of Parliament (MP) . ttyl
Jurisdiction? (Score:2)
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Well, don't go stealing Russian credit card numbers.
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But what he did were also crimes in Russia and were partially committed within the US.