Edward Snowden and Laura Poitras Win Truth-Telling Award 123
An anonymous reader writes with news that Snowden has received the Ridenhour Truth-Telling award. From the announcement: "We have selected Edward Snowden and Laura Poitras for their work in exposing the NSA's illegal and unconstitutional bulk collection of the communications of millions of people living in the United States. Their act of courage was undertaken at great personal risk and has sparked a critical and transformative debate about mass surveillance in a country where privacy is considered a constitutional right."
The award will be presented at the National Press Club. It is hoped that Snowden and Poitras will be able to appear remotely (Poitras is in effective exile in Berlin). In related news, the ACLU has indexed all publicly released documented leaked by Snowden. You can even full-text search them.
To tell the truth (Score:2, Funny)
My beard, forsooth
Craveth proper soap
E'er since me youth
Burma Shave
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That sly rat! Adrian Lemo , ratted him right to good ol Guantanamo !!
________________
Dolaateral Cabbage
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Don LaFontaine:
"In a world, where Truth is forbidden... Where Justice - is a threat... and Treason means having the courage to do what's Right...
Sometimes, there's a chance for one man to make a difference, and risk it all... So others can reach the summit and see the light."
This summer, is the summer of.. Snowden.
Re:To tell the truth (Score:4, Interesting)
WHY WE WILL NEVER LEARN [badattitudes.com]
Thomas Polgar, the last CIA station chief in Vietnam, died in March at the age of 92. His obit is in today’s New York Times. And here's Polgar himself, remembering the fall of Saigon. As well as, in this brief aside, the war criminal Henry Kissinger.
One day I had an opportunity to ask Mr. Kissinger what he thought of our intelligence. Not speaking of Vietnam, but generally. He was getting this big flow of intelligence from CIA world wide at the time. What did he think of the value of it? And he thought for a moment and then he said, "Well, when it supports my policy, it’s very useful." And I think we are here at the heart of the problem. It is that American policy is not formulated in response to what the intelligence shows. We first formulate the policy and then we try to find the intelligence to support it.
It is interesting to speculate what might have happened if Truman had decided to let the country continue to bumble along, as it had somehow since 1776, without any "intelligence" agency at all. No Shah of Iran, hence no hostage crisis and no Ronald Reagan. No U2, hence no refreezing of the Cold War. No Bay of Pigs, hence no Cuban Missile Crisis. No arming of the Taliban, to teach those Russians a lesson. No Weapons of Mass Destruction, hence no The list goes on and on. The CIA stands in relation to the White House as the drug dealer stands to the addict.
OK, that's kinda funny (Score:1)
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In reality, our military is awash in honor, for all elected officials may not always employ it for honorable ends.
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And it's one of those points of history that some of the better technological advances (e.g. radar) are due to war.
But let's not rationalize too heavily here: war is "the evil that men do".
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Everyone in the US armed forces is without honor.
Is that you, Fred "Westboro Baptist Church" Phelps . . . ?
I thought you were dead.
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*sigh* Yes, yes, we know Obama got a Nobel Peace Price and nobody knows why, can we finally drop it? Everyone knows those things are mostly for show by now anyway.
What's it got to do with the topic, anyway?
Re:Which just goes to show (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know who Snowden betrayed, but as an American, he certainly didn't betray me. However, those supporting the NSA's disgusting activities certainly are betraying the American people.
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The NSA spying on the rest of the world IS DOING THIER FUCKING JOB.
Snowden did not betray me by telling the world of the NSA's immoral spying. If those activities are part of their job, then their job is immoral, and I'm happy he gave us the specifics.
We should not be doing this to innocent people or allies.
If you're too naive to understand how politics work and think that our 'allies' aren't trying to do the same then you're just ignorant and small-minded
Why do you complete morons always assume that people like me think that no one else is doing this sort of thing? Rather, it's not that I think no one else is doing it, *I don't care*. That justifies *nothing*.
No doubt, they did break the law (constitution), but that doesn't justify releasing all the other crap that was ENTIRELY LEGAL AND WHAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING.
What is legal is not always right. What is illegal is not alw
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It's funny how shrill some people get when exclaiming Snowden as a traitor, but how *very quiet* these same people are when mentioning that the US gubmint has not only violated the public trust, but also the constitution of the United States, that legal bedrock on which rests all the laws of the land - like it ain't no thing.
Yeah, but Snowden: let's focus on him.
Re:Which just goes to show (Score:5, Insightful)
The NSA spying on the rest of the world IS DOING THIER FUCKING JOB.
Stop repeating things that aren't true. Unless that country is actively at war with the US, then no. The NSA's espionage and computer fraud (writing malware, sabotaging systems, leaving other vulnerabilities that can be abused by anyone) are an illegal act of aggression and breaks our treaties. Might I remind you that not too long ago, the very same president that is supporting the NSA right now had also called out China for illegal hacking and himself called it an "act of war."
This kind of bullshit being posted here just goes to show that shilling wins. I can't believe this kind of mindset has actually taken foot here.
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This kind of bullshit being posted here just goes to show that shilling wins.
Oh I wouldn't say they're winning, but by god they're certainly trying.
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As long as you are honest about it. I.e, after Obama explains to Angela Merkel and the rest of the European politicians that Europe is the enemy (along with every other country in the rest of the world).
But that's not what's happening. What's happening is Obama is trying to convince European politicians that "the US is still your friend", while the NSA is doing their best to prove the opposite.
So, if their job is to undermine the work of the
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The NSA's job is to look out for our national security. Spying on our close allies and competitors of American corporations does not fall within that purview and violates treaties that we are a signatory to and the law in many other countries.
The old "two wrongs make a right" argument when it comes to spying is tired and pathetic.
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As someone living in that funny place called "the rest of the world" I say GET YOUR FUCKING SPYING JOB AND SHOVE IT UP YOUR FUCKING ASS.
A few billion people agree with me. They say hello.
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NSA - Just following orders, like the SS did!
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Snowden is just as much a traitor as Obamas office is.
Which piece of furniture or office equipment do you suspect of betraying the country?
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It's not the furniture, it's the room. You've got to watch those things, being all sneaky acting like they're nothing but empty space between the walls.
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...nothing but empty space between the walls.
For some reason I read that as "empty space between the ears." I guess it's all this talk about politicians and the NSA fapping.
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Re:Which just goes to show (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, sorry for the knee-jerk reaction. Let's try to be more level headed.
You know what's most astonishing about an award to a "traitor", given by the very same country he "betrayed", really is? That it is given. Think back through history. Can you imagine an award for Julius Rosenberg, given by any kind of US institution? Or let's be less "dramatic", any idea how a criminal of any kind would be given an award by his own country?
Can you imagine what kind of support for a "crime" it takes that the "criminal" gets an award for it? And we're not talking about a spy having backing in the country he spies from. That the Rosenbergs were seen as heroes in the USSR is a given. But we're talking about support for what he has done, without a doubt against the interests of the US government, and the support that he gets for it within the US.
That alone tells me more about the US government and how well the US people feel represented by said government than about the "criminal".
A government should represent its people, and the will of the people. That's the only reason, the only right, a government has to exist if it is supposed to be just and justified. If a government does not do that and instead prosecutes someone who does actually execute what is identified as the will of the people, then I have to admit it is kinda hard to tell for me who is the criminal here, the whistleblower or the government.
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Re:Which just goes to show (Score:4, Interesting)
We are in sad shape when we give awards to traitors.
Are you talking about Snowden or the many criminals in the NSA and CIA who have won awards over the years?
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Contrary to your tiny minded view of the world, not everyone at the NSA is the same.
Its amazing how you can't distinguish between an organization and the people in it.
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The same? Maybe not. But at this point, anyone staying at the NSA is immoral. Ignorance is no longer an excuse, because the ignorance that these things are happening does not exist.
Re:Which just goes to show (Score:4, Insightful)
Its amazing how you can't distinguish between an organization and the people in it.
Organisations are like soylent green: made of people. If "the NSA" is doing bad stuff that means people in the NSA were doing bad stuff.
not everyone at the NSA is the same.
Quite so. They have recently had at least one good, honourable person in they employ: Edward Snowden. That proves that not everyone at the NSA is necessarily bad.
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You're a moron.
You've just told us that you think the janitors at the NSA are as responsible as people like Snowden himself ... who you know ... HELPED TO ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT THIS SHIT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Jesus christ, you want so hard to hate the NSA that logical and thought go right out the window.
GO HOME NSA YOU ARE DRUNK.
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You've just told us that you think the janitors at the NSA are as responsible as people like Snowden himself
No I didn't. I merely pointed out that the presence of Snowden proves beyond doubt that good people are or have worked at the NSA.
Jesus christ, you want so hard to hate the NSA that logical and thought go right out the window.
No, honestly I just like winding you up because you're a nutter.
It is funny though that Snowden (who you hate so much) proves the point (that you love so much) about having good
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Well, ignorance is strength...
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VERY selective outrage there!
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that lying is the norm.
I told you before Yoda, leave poor Norm alone
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It's not that hard to punch that into Wikipedia, is it [wikipedia.org]?
"prestigious in literary circles" (Score:2)
I look at wikipedia like breathing but it won't tell you how "prestigious" this award is in literary circles without more digging...
He should get the Nobel Peace Prize (Score:5, Interesting)
It would go a long way towards making up for that embarrassment of giving Obama that award before he had even done anything.
Nobel Peace Prize? (Score:1)
What for? He hasn't even killed a single person. Why should he qualify for the Peace Prize?
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It would go a long way towards making up for that embarrassment of giving Obama that award before he had even done anything.
Well, at least nobody proposes giving Obama "Truth-Telling award" these days. But then it's close to half a century ago already that Tom Lehrer stated "Political satire became redundant when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize."
Maybe it needs to be renamed to "Peacemaker Prize" or "Peaciness Award" or something.
Re:He should get the Nobel Peace and War Prize (Score:2)
The so-called "Peace" prize is indeed badly named. Other famous war makers, H-bomb creator, mass killing authors and terrorists got it:
Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin (1994)
Mohamed Anwar al-Sadat and Menachem Begin (1978)
Andrei Dmitrievich Sakharov (1975)
Henry A. Kissinger and Le Duc Tho (1973)
So perhaps Edward Snowden and Laura Poitras have better not to be awarded
the Nobel.
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In fairness the creation of the H-bomb has appeared to have done a great deal for peace - witness the fact that there hasn't been an open war between nuclear powers since its invention, despite many lingering resentments and incentives. Not to mention the horror that would likely have been unleashed had only one side succeeded in their efforts - you can't reasonably argue that either side could have backed away from the project without condemning themselves to a fiery defeat.
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It's ironic that the H-bomb has indeed stopped war on the scale of WW2 since it's development but today the advances in missile defense could very well do the opposite. Any country sitting on a nuclear stockpile of missiles would lose their ultimate defense if the missiles are rendered useless against a robust missile defense system. The defense systems are only going to get better and it won't be long before orbital defense platforms get added to the mix regardless of any treaty about weaponizing space.
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Weapons for Peace! Defenses for War! I think you win this weeks prize for appropriate use of the word irony, and here it is only Tuesday.
On the plus side hasn't China been doing some serious research into surface-to-orbit weapons? That should be useful for eliminating orbital defenses, and I'm sure the other Powers are stealing the technology as fast as it's developed. Regional defenses will be a separate issue, and yeah, I don't really see any way to counter them, except via the old tried-and-true missi
^downmod - troll (Score:1)
Parent is trolling...it's about getting people to comment not making a point...
Sure, Obama received the Nobel Prize, and his critics can assuredly be relied upon to...um...criticize it...but the above comment is pure TROLL
the fact that it has been modded "interesting" means that users are modding for their personal political beliefs not to foster discussion
if this is "interesting" then you're an idiot
Obama (Score:1)
It would be more embarrassing if they gave Obama the award after he did anything.
Re:He should get the Nobel Peace Prize (Score:5, Insightful)
Laws need not be just. Neither do they have to be for the benefit of the majority of the population.
Blind followers of laws have made dictatorships possible throughout the history of humanity. You think either Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia would have been possible without people who would just follow orders and uphold the law?
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In fact, a lot of what both nations did was illegal under their own laws. People had to be told quietly to break the laws, and these orders were never written down. Of course, the two regimes were different - The New York Times won a Pulitzer Prize for covering up the left-wing regime's genocide.
"Responding to criticisms that he and Khrushchev did not do enough to expose Stalin's crimes, former first deputy premier Anastas Mikoyan reportedly said: "We couldn't do that because then everyone would have know
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You think either Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia would have been possible without people who would just follow orders and uphold the law?
Or, more recently and anecdotally, just being identified as the ones willing to follow orders [slashdot.org]
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Re:He should get the Nobel Peace Prize (Score:5, Insightful)
If Snowden had done the "honorable" thing, he would honorably be buried in a prison right now under an honorable permanent gag order. And the honorable American people would still be completely clueless that the NSA was dishonorably monitoring and archiving every one of our phone calls and emails.
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The honorable thing would be to tell the world of the spying on US citizens and things that were actually illegal and wrong. Full Stop.
Leaking documents about spying on other countries 'allies' or not, makes him a traitor. If you're too ignorant of politics to understand that all countries do their VERY BEST to spy on others, then you really don't have a place in this discussion. Spying on ALL other countries, 'allies' or otherwise, is the NSA's mandate.
Re:He should get the Nobel Peace Prize (Score:5, Insightful)
Snowden could have been honorable
No. The NSA (and various other TLAs) have shown, again and again, that there the "proper channels" for whistleblowing are dead ends. Nothing will be fixed or improved, and for your troubles you'll be subjected to endless legal and extralegal hardship.
Snowden apparently knew better than to fall into this trap. I don't think you're actually unaware of this, just trolling. But for others, perhaps, who might be genuinely interested: Thomas Andrews Drake [wikipedia.org].
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I said nothing about 'proper channels'.
Blowing the top off the spying on US citizens would have been honorable. He would have been taking one for the team, so to speak.
Grabbing a bunch of different shit, some of it state secrets and 100% legal and exactly what the NSA was supposed to do ... and just throwing it ALL out there ... thats where he went from hero to traitor.
He wasn't trying to protect US citizens, he was trying to embarrass the NSA and the government, thats entirely different and thats why he's
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If not 'proper channels', what did you mean when you said Snowden 'could have been honorable'? He would still have had to flee the country, as it is abundantly clear from cases like Drake's that otherwise nothing much would happen about the issues raised, and it is likely that his personal life would have been wrecked, even worse than it is now.
The NSA is supposed to protect the US national security. That does emphatically NOT include things like spying on allied heads of state, foreign competitors of US co
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Can you not read? I stated it fairly clearly.
Outting the spying on the US citizens, which is illegal ... honorable.
Outting the operations of the NSA against other nations, which is legal AND THEIR JOB ... traitor.
I'm not sure how I can make it any more clear, if you can't understand that you need to go see a doctor or at least close your slashdot account because you don't belong here.
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Can YOU read? Because I think I addressed why I think your "traitor" epiphet does not apply here. And what you call the "honorable" way would have landed him in isolation, right quick, as is obvious from earlier attempts on the part of brave whistleblowers.
if you can't understand that you need to go see a doctor or at least close your slashdot account because you don't belong here.
Oh, grow up. I fail to see how you, or anyone for that matter, would be an authority on who does and does not belong here. And if I were inclined to be childish as well, I might point at our respective UIDs, and claim that I haven't belonged here for a wh
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" way would have landed him in isolation, right quick, as is obvious from earlier attempts on the part of brave whistleblowers."
based on.. what, exactly?
You are clearly and intentional, missing his point.
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You are clearly and intentional, missing his point.
I don't think I am. Certainly not on purpose.
I'll admit to being a bit irritated by his tone, though, probably shouldn't have responded the way I did.
BitZtream was arguing that whistleblowing on the spying on Americans is heroic, while doing same for (some of) their international operations is traiterous. I get that, but I countered that in my opinion this would still count as whistleblowing as it is all done on the taxpayer's dime. The question of what is, or isn't their mandate comes up.
I maybe wrong (ple
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You seem to think you can't be honorable and a traitor.
He betray the trust of the government, hence 'traito'r. He may have done so for honorable reasons, but that doesn't make betraying your country any less traitorous.
traitor
trtr/Submit
noun
1.
a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.
NSA is about SIGINT, which is what this was. If they had gone with thin thread, they could collect data and NOT have violated previous without a court.
There mandate is to watch and track Signal Intelligence. It's r
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If it was all on the up and up, they wouldn't care if it was leaked. I hate to break it to you, but the NSA was not just "doing their job" overseas. This explains why you mistakenly think he is a traitor though; you have no idea what you are talking about.
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That does emphatically NOT include things like spying on allied heads of state, foreign competitors of US corporations, or the entire population of supposedly friendly nations
Actually it does, its in their mandate, but don't let reality fuck up your selfish ignorant world view.
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Actually it does, its in their mandate, but don't let reality fuck up your selfish ignorant world view.
[citation needed]
Actually, you know what, don't bother. From your post history it's obvious that you are unable to engage in a discussion without childish namecalling. In particular, everyone who doesn't agree 100% with you is apparently stupid. I hope you'll grow up some day, and see just how statistically unlikely that is, but I don't see the point in spending any energy toward that goal.
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Actually. the NSA mandate is to watch all communication. Contrary to TV, there focus is on SIGINT, not on trying to get Micheal Weston, or what every you think they do. IT's even broke into group. A group monitors one type of country, G group another.
As for the privacy issue, they rest solely on Michael Haydon, who decided that agency would use thinthread(thinnet?); which encrypted all the informaiton, and you would need a court order to decrypt what they need.
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No. The NSA (and various other TLAs) have shown, again and again, that there the "proper channels" for whistleblowing are dead ends. Nothing will be fixed or improved, and for your troubles you'll be subjected to endless legal and extralegal hardship.
Yes. The problem with established whistleblower procedures in large institutions (both public and private) is that they act more like honeypots than proper feedback mechanisms which result in the problem being addressed, the perpetrators removed and punished, and the common good being served.
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He's just as much of a 'terrorist' as were the Founding Fathers who struggled to get rid of totalitarian control. He's just as much of a 'traitor' as were Mark Felt when he gave confidential information about Nixon's wiretaps on the DNC HQ to the media.
Who knows if it is or isn't... (Score:4, Informative)
Since the Supreme Court refused to rule on the latest challenge http://jurist.org/paperchase/2... [jurist.org] we don't know if it is or isn't. In my opinion the original judge who said "that the program is likely unconstitutional" was correct, so the program continues to operate and probably faces years more worth of legal challenges.
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exile? (Score:2)
Telepresence is interesting (Score:1)
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Don't be ridiculous. If you do that how are they supposed to drag you off to a windowless cell afterwards?
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But what's in it for $GOV? Any time there is a significant power imbalance you can be virtually guaranteed it will be exploited, it's the natural order of things. You're not one of those Godless Pinko Muslim Commies that thinks governments should be bound by silly things like "human rights" and "the rule of law" are you?
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But $GOV is not credibly threatened by $HUMAN, and so long as $GOV is the only one bringing truncheons to the conversation they're unlikely to complain about the situation. It's possible that $HUMAN could pose a risk of assassination or revolution - but the first is a perpetual concern that every politician in history has faced, iron-fisted or otherwise, and sufficiently invasive surveillance of the population offers a plausible preemptive defense against revolution.
Basically, to get out of this hole we've
How ironic (Score:2, Funny)
... that someone who lied and manipulated people is given a 'truth telling' award.
I guess it's OK to lie when you are getting what you want because the voices in your head are telling you it's the right thing to do.
I have never seen a right to privacy in the US (Score:3)
Constitution. If it were there, we would not be having the problems we are currently having.
Half my age, 10 times the guts. (Score:2)
Risked everything. Gained nothing.
Snowden.
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Gained nothing? I'll be the movie and book will make him some many while continuing to stroke his ego.
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I'm sure he;ll be in the history books and that too might be a nice to have but he's still living in hiding and that will make life shit so I'd still say that's gaining nothing.
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he isn't living in hiding. we know right were he is.
He has a job, and if a book or movie makes him money, then Russia will be a fine place to live.
How come... (Score:1)
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It's done by the same people that selected Obama for the Nobel Peace Prize.
Ever since that travesty, every single person who ever received the Nobel Peace prize has been trashed. It's a worthless trinket now.