Snowden Gives Alternative Christmas Message On Channel 4 224
codeusirae wrote in with news that Edward Snowden gave an alternative to the UK's yearly Christmas message, speaking about his objections to mass indiscriminate surveillance by governments. The message aired on channel four at 16:15. Slashgear posted a transcript. Quoting: "Think about what this means for the privacy of the average person. A child born today will grow up with no conception of privacy at all. They'll never know what it means to have a private moment to themselves — an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought. And that's a problem, because privacy matters. Privacy is what allows us to determine who we are and who we want to be."
Maybe its just me (Score:2)
but snooping on phone calls and facebook is a tad far off from mind reading
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Yeah, just wait for the next document release.
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So, to be safe, they will just have to assume the worst.
Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (Score:5, Insightful)
Just think about it for a sec...
If an Iranian or Russian version of Snowden had defected to the [mighty] USA, we would be trumpeting our "superior" system and way-of-life as compared to "those other nations."
We would be saying we're glad to be living here where ther's the "rule of law" yada yada yada...
But because he was one of us, our government is instead labeling him as a traitor. Sadly, a good number of Americans don't see the hipocrisy!!
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That's because they're bad, so defecting from them is good, whereas we're good, so defecting from us is bad. :)
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It's objectively bad to live somewhere that can see you stoned to death because you were raped by somebody else.
It's objectively bad to live somewhere that sees schoolteachers dragged out into the street and shot in the head for teaching girls to read.
Neither of those things are objectively bad, and there is no magical opinion fairy who decides such things. Pretty much everyone would agree with them, but popularity does not make those things objective facts.
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Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (Score:4, Informative)
Depends in where in the West you were. I have friends whose parents were murdered by Pinochet...
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It's all about intent. And, like everything else, you can't legislate for intent.
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Yes you can.
Intent is the difference between murder in the first degree and manslaughter.
I think what Snowden did was extremely illegal for a goddamned reason. However, these are not normal circumstances so I think he should be pardoned after being charged.
Although that being said I wish House GOP leaders would horsewhip Rep. Darrel Issa over being less responsible with leaks than Snowden, Wikileaks, Glenn Greenwald or even a hole on the side of a boat.
He's going to come out of this a hero. (Score:3)
Both Fox News [foxnews.com] and The Washington Post [washingtonpost.com] are reporting favorably on Snowden. Congress and the courts are acting on his revelations. He's changed the world a little, probably for the better.
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The USA isn't cracking down on dissidents like Russia or Iran are.
The fact that Ted Cruz, one of the few men who can be isolated as a reason for the 2013 shutdown, is still walking about...
I think things are more complex and nuanced than just saying that Snowden is a traitor or a hero or that America is complicit in the same kinds of surveillance as way more oppressive regimes are.
2013 has really brought down my tolerance for horse shit and hyperbole.
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Good to see the straw man is alive and well on slashdot through the end of 2014.
an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought. (Score:2)
Re:an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought. (Score:5, Insightful)
Some children have baby monitors in their room from birth, gps trackers by the time they are toddlers if not before. They graduate to playing with an tablet that starts collecting information on them by 4 or 5, and a few more years after that and they've got a cell phone tracking nearly every move and social interaction.
Maybe not you or your children. But its absolutely true that full surveillance from birth is a thing now.
As parents its an interesting conundrum choosing between the security of a toddler gps and the knowledge that doing so actively prevents your child from ever being properly alone or even possibly lost. And as parents, I feel that as terrifying as that is for both child and parent, the possibility of being lost is a NECESSARY part of growing up and being an independent responsible person. They need that sense of being able to get lost; even if they don't actually get lost.
We elected not to track the kids, and to give them more space than many of their peers have.
But I know of many families where the kids have no real privacy at all, ever. If they write in their diary, their parents will have read it. If they have a box they keep special things in their parents will have have rooted through it.
I wouldn't be above searching their room and belongings if I had a concern, but I'd have to have a genuine concern to do that invasion of privacy. I think all kids need *some* privacy, and increasingly more as they get older, and many do not get it.
But whenever they've gone outside to play and they've wandered off with friends or whatever and aren't where they are supposed to be and forgot to check in with us... well... I completely get the fear that rises up and leads some parents to go what i think is completely overboard.
There is something terribly wrong... (Score:2)
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...because privacy matters (Freedom from Fear) (Score:2)
"...because privacy matters. Privacy is what allows us to determine who we are and who we want to be."
Y'know, when I read that, for some reason the first thing I thought of was James Brown, the singer/composer/dancer. I watched a documentary about him once, and remember that as a child, he would go off by himself and be in his own head. I think that's where a lot of his creativity came from. Maybe I just identified with that and maybe a lot of people don't care. But yes, I think privacy matters.
Looked a
Dramatic nonsense. (Score:2, Flamebait)
"...They'll never know what it means to have a private moment to themselves â" an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought..."
Bullshit. This is just drama-queen nonsense right here.
No, their complaints aren't private...because they post them immediately to Facebook, snapchat them to someone else, or can't help but tweet their latest crisis to their 465 followers. Surprise, announcing your private thoughts and feelings to hundreds if not thousands makes it unlikely your thought is "private".
Today, any person ca
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No, their complaints aren't private...because they post them immediately to Facebook, snapchat them to someone else, or can't help but tweet their latest crisis to their 465 followers. Surprise, announcing your private thoughts and feelings to hundreds if not thousands makes it unlikely your thought is "private".
You do realize this is about surveillance, right? Even if you have nothing to do with Facebook, your communications are still being monitored.
They can have "private thoughts".
Oh, that's nice.
There are even lots of opportunities for actual privacy
And thanks to modern technology and governments that are willing to use said technology to infringe upon people's rights, the number of such opportunities is decreasing.
(unless you choose to avail yourself of modern communications).
Well, that's kind of the problem, isn't it? This is the information age, and I don't exactly expect people to abandon modern communications just so they can ensure that their corrupt go
Jesus Christ (Score:5, Insightful)
The majority of posts, on /. of all places, slamming Snowden for "blah blah blah, PR, narcissist, looking to make money off this."
This guy has effectively destroyed his own life, and the lives of those around him, to tell us, the plebs of the world, the truth that our Governments have been hiding from us.
And you're tearing a strip off him?
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At first I was unconvinced of the effectiveness of what he did because he didn't really tell us anything we didn't already strongly suspect (or know) but the dialogue created has successfully provoked public awareness far beyond my expectations. It's reasonably clear that Snowden *could* gain a lot from this - but he definitely hasn't even tried. Anyway, as far as I am concerned he deserve
Re:Jesus Christ (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-31/document-reveals-official-nsa-talking-points-use-911-attacks-sound-bite [zerohedge.com]
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-02/nsas-mission-great-value-nation-complete-authorized-nsa-thanksgiving-dinner-talking- [zerohedge.com]
As more Snowden docs where released their usual straw man, topic changing, the crypto is still good, 'other countries', its all legal, "its only metadata" sock puppet talking points became more and more of a joke over the weeks.
The world now knows of the junk internet encryption, the useless telco encryption, the tame US firms, the tame US staff, the tame US legal teams, the tame staff in other countries ensuring all data flows back the UK/US and many other 'friends', the lack of any real political oversight, the lack of basic crypto skill around top political leaders.
Better software, hardware, air gaps and law reform will slowly correct many of the issues
The reality of https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering [eff.org] is now for good lawyers to understand and consider.
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I *agree* with what he did.
I doubt I'd have had the courage, honestly, to go as far.
Nevertheless, the idea that future generations "will never know a private thought" is complete histrionic bullshit. In my experience, the people complaining about a lack of privacy today are people that snapchat, twitter, and facebook regularly.
To rephrase then: "Socially-addicted attention whores have no privacy"...
Is that a surprise?
It's not either/or. He can be admirable for what he did AND be a drama queen in his comme
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the people complaining about a lack of privacy today are people that snapchat, twitter, and facebook regularly.
How is your hypothetical about people complaining all being on FaceBook (I'm not) any different about people complaining about Snowden's revelations based on hypothetical ways he COULD HAVE (but not really) made his revelations on US soil? In addition; these are chosen public displays -- not stolen information. It's the difference between dressing up and being silly at a party, and someone taking
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The shortcomings of Snowden not making his revelations within range of a sniper rifle remind me that I don't follow The Jesus because he didn't jog on the water. I mean, he just walked. What kind of example about physical fitness is that?
One of the greats (Score:2)
Sorry but the NSA and the Presidents who authorized this shit have lost their way completely. IF and when the NSa is busted interfering in American or European economic or political life in the name of "national security" which they may have already done because clearly this is a group of technocrats, reputation hounds, careerists and yes men in whom any notion of what constitutes a civil society is entirely absent. They don't *get* that as soon as they're caught tipping outcomes, ruining lives, thwartin
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They are stockpiling information on you to use when they do become interested in you. That could mean that they are investigating a terror plot that you are a part of, but that is not the only way to become interesting to the well-funded shadowy government organization.
For instance, suppose you decided that you don't want to just stay in your place and instead pursue social activism or politics? Suppose further that you are not the kind of person that is easily controlled. Perhaps they have some conversa
Agreed (Score:2)
Re:Agreed (Score:5, Insightful)
Snowden is in a precarious position at present. He has to rely on the good will of other countries to protect him from America, who quite possibly would give him the death sentence (or failing that imprison him for the rest of his life). By keeping himself in the minds of the global population he adds incentive to those protecting him; they get to be the 'good guy' by doing so. In short, this isn't narcissism, it is self preservation.
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(or failing that imprison him for the rest of his life).
Much more plausible IMHO.
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(And, of course, even our shoddier execution protocols are arguably more humane than some of the fun that awaits you even in standard prisons. A life term with the finest occupational sadists who aren't officially on our payroll... to be avoided.)
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By keeping himself in the minds of the global population he adds incentive to those protecting him; they get to be the 'good guy' by doing so
I believe that this needs to be supported by the people in general, rather than Snowden single-handedly having to provide that incentive. I think Snowden needs to be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize or something similar.
Re:Enough (Score:5, Insightful)
I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him
Jesus Fucking Christ, this man is going to spend the rest of his life, in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love. Cut the man some fucking slack you asshole.
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There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.
I have to agree with the GP's post though; Snowden (or more likely the organization supporting him) is on a PR blitz to keep him on the front pages for as long as possible. It's getting old hearing the same story day after day.
Re:Enough (Score:5, Informative)
There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.
Right... he was supposed to count on this commander in chief's attitude toward whistleblower laws to protect him and those he loved-???
http://www.policymic.com/articles/57017/obama-removes-promise-to-protect-whistleblowers-from-old-campaign-website [policymic.com]
"
(previously on Obama's website): 'Protect Whistleblowers: Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. Such acts of courage and patriotism, which can sometimes save lives and often save taxpayer dollars, should be encouraged rather than stifled. We need to empower federal employees as watchdogs of wrongdoing and partners in performance. Barack Obama will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government. Obama will ensure that federal agencies expedite the process for reviewing whistleblower claims and whistleblowers have full access to courts and due process.'
While the connection between such blatant hypocrisy and its intentional "removal" from the internet remains speculative, the coincidence is too great to ignore. Moreover, it is hard not to recall George Orwell's 1984 and the Ministry of Truth's epic programs to rewrite history in an attempt to save face.
"
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There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules.
Funny indeed. If he'd played by the rules, the American people, in all likelihood, would still be ignorant of what their government is doing. When the government is violating the constitution and people's rights, I think the people need to be the first to know. Forget idiotic rules.
Re:Enough (Score:5, Informative)
> There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.
Ellsberg (the guy who leaked the Pentagon Papers [which revealed the fact that multiple Administrations lied to the American public and Congress to get into the Vietnam War, and then lied again to covertly expand its reach]) *strongly* disagrees with you:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/daniel-ellsberg-nsa-leaker-snowden-made-the-right-call/2013/07/07/0b46d96c-e5b7-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html
and
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/03/208602113/pentagon-papers-leaker-daniel-ellsberg-praises-snowden-manning
This America is not the America our parents grew up in. Things have changed, largely for the worse.
Here, Ellsberg speaks directly on his opinion about the NSA documents that have been revealed to the public and the impact of the programs that they reveal:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/edward-snowden-united-stasi-america
Please carefully read the documents that have been released so far, the articles that I have linked to, and the discussion surrounding these issues. While you're doing that please do try to forget all about the messenger and focus on the messages that have been brought to your attention.
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There's a game which must be played. Expecting people to focus on the message without paying attention to the messsenger is unrealistic and stupid. Snowden as a face for the NSA revelations is a good move. I can't fathom why you would object to Snowden being on the front pages rather than something of less importance, which is pretty much anything else for the US.
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would have protected him if he'd played by the rules
Funny how "the rules" only become important when the abusers are exposed. Since they ignore "the rules" whenever it suits them, there's no place for complaining about others doing the same. In any case, the rules of integrity, decency, patriotism, being a free people, and a dozen other things were followed to the letter.
Re:Enough (Score:5, Informative)
There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.
Fool. That isn't how whistleblower laws work, not even in theory, let alone practice, especially in the intelligence industry.
And he did try to play by the rules; his superiors made it abundantly clear to him (repeatedly so) that his opinion on the matter was not solicited, and furthermore, endangered his career.
It's getting old hearing the same story day after day.
Until naive, delusional fools like yourself can't see the problem we're facing, it should be repeated constantly and continuously until you get the fucking message.
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And he did try to play by the rules; his superiors made it abundantly clear to him (repeatedly so) that his opinion on the matter was not solicited, and furthermore, endangered his career.
You aren't talking about Snowden, are you? That doesn't appear to be remotely true in any meaningful way. Snowden has admitted that he took his job with the intent of stealing secrets [cnn.com].
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Both statements are true. He was already doing work with the NSA before Booze Allen. Prior to that contract he had already voiced his concerns.
Reading old Ars posts of his, prior to working with Booze Allen, he struck me as being slightly to the right of most Slashdot readers, even a bit authoritarian. Somewhere along there he had a crisis of conscience when he realized that the NSA's actions were roughly in line with what most conspiracy minded folks already assumed and we were only a catastrophe away from
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There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.
Fool. That isn't how whistleblower laws work, not even in theory, let alone practice, especially in the intelligence industry.
And he did try to play by the rules; his superiors made it abundantly clear to him (repeatedly so) that his opinion on the matter was not solicited, and furthermore, endangered his career.
It's getting old hearing the same story day after day.
Until naive, delusional fools like yourself can't see the problem we're facing, it should be repeated constantly and continuously until you get the fucking message.
I agree with both of you - but my beef is with Lavabit. People are supporting that guy left and right, when he could have simply CCd (archived) incoming/outgoing mail for the FBI Target. That target we assume to be Snowden, is a single person, who was sheltered and protected by a business owner who has now taken in at least half a million dollars in donations and kickstarter campaign funds. And his service was never as secure as he claimed in the first place.
IMHO, you cannot be a trustworthy person when
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There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules.
Bullshit. [cnn.com] That link is to a story written by a retired NSA employee, who had many honors in his career.
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Snowden exists and is still alive, while the Jesus of the Christian Bible is a myth.
Crucifixion was a horribly real and painful way to die.
Snowden tells us about dire events that are happening now, the Christian Bible has vague prophesies.
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Snowden exists and is still alive, while the Jesus of the Christian Bible is a myth.
Really? I label myself a christian, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that both Snowden and Jesus, have mythical qualities. Both Snowden and Jesus are people whose lives I have but the faintest glimmer of vision into. There is vastly more that I don't know about them, their actions, and the context of their actions, than what I do know.
Crucifixion was a horribly real and painful way to die.
Do you really meet many people who dispute statements of yours like that? If not, why do you make them?
Snowden tells us about dire events that are happening now, the Christian Bible has vague prophesies.
I know I've been taught to ignore people like you, but I gu
Re:Enough (Score:5, Insightful)
> Jesus Fucking Christ, this man is going to spend the rest of his life, in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love. Cut the man some fucking slack you asshole.
Hopefully you're wrong. Hopefully he'll be caught and no longer be in fear.
It sounds like you are OK with his being imprisoned and/or tortured and/or executed, and the same for anyone who was ever close to him, and perhaps another love-hop from there because authorities believe it makes the crucifixion more effective?
Snowden appears to have done the right thing, for the right reasons. He served our best interests.
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> in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love.
and/or tortured and/or executed, and the same for anyone who was ever close to him, and perhaps another love-hop from there because authorities believe
Jesus guys, come down a bit please. WTF would he be tortured? WTF would his siblings be bothered other than being harder for them to get security clearances?
I believe the cat is already out of the bag, so no reason for that kind of stuff.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4596949&cid=45783413 [slashdot.org]
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Jesus guys, come down a bit please. WTF would he be tortured? WTF would his siblings be bothered other than being harder for them to get security clearances?
Coincidentally enough, the answer to your question should be 'bloody obvious on this day, particularly with the first word you chose to use. Even for the non-believer, Jesus was a good reminder about modes of government intimidation. The authorities and masses couldn't get Jesus to un-say what he had already said. But they sure could terrorize the populace into preventing anyone from standing up to them again.
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particularly with the first word you chose to use. Even for the non-believer, Jesus
You are lost in left field. Read up a bit a bit and you will find out I just copy-catted it from the GGP or something.
Merry Christmas ;-)
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Read up a bit a bit
Must have meant "just a little bit"
Well
I pray just a little bit
Pray just a little bit.
I pray nobody wants your loving to keep
And you stray just a little bit
Stray just a little bit.
Don't let temptation fill your heart with dreams
Don't let your mind run away.
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What makes you think this administration has any interest in following the law?
What makes you think this is what I think? The administration does what is good for itself, hence my point.
Much confused aren't you? mixing it all up together aren't you?
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Because he stayed on duty after starting leaking until he was arrested.
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Because he stayed on duty after starting leaking until he was arrested.
That made it right to torture him, did it? Do you not see how that proves his point?
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Proves what point? He was arguing with me that Snowden would be because Manning was while I said Snowden wouldn't be.
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In his line of work, it is the price of doing what he did.
And he was a very courageous and public-spirited man for doing it.
I for one, would not have the courage and selflessness to make such a sacrifice.
Compare what he did with the thousands of morons running around at the moment killing themselves and others in the name of some sort of god.
Re:Enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Then who is it about? Who is actually standing up and doing something about this?
The definition of a narcissist is someone who excessively admires his or herself. I don't see how sacrificing one's own career, income, relationships, freedom to travel, reputation, and subjecting himself to ridiculous criticism and smear campaigns is compatible with that definition.
Edward Snowden has made sacrifices on behalf of principles we should all be standing up for. That has little to do with self-love.
Re:Enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Funnily enough, I think Putin put it the best. After all, he's an old intelligence operative himself.
"He's a strange man. He threw away his life, a good life, just to push for an idealist goal. I don't agree with him, but I respect his conviction".
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Interesting that. The Russian government also claimed to be surprised that Snowden showed up in Russia when he stayed at the Russian consulate in Hong Kong, and both had his birthday there, and made travel arrangements there. That seems a bit odd, don't you think? Can you imagine that they really didn't phone home to Moscow? What did they talk about while in the embassy?
Putin's statement may or may not be taken at face value. It would be a beautiful cover for a Russian intelligence operation involving
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In hindsight, it actually looked real. Snowden clearly didn't want to stay there, and didn't plan to. The mess at the airport, and the fact that US actually downed a plane of Latin American country's president above Europe proves that no one thought he planned to stay in Russia.
So the answer to your question is that no, it doesn't seem convenient. In fact, it seems pretty damn inconvenient for everyone involved, including Russia, who didn't and doesn't want Snowden - he creates additional diplomatic problem
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As far as I can tell, he lives off ramen because he has no money. [businessinsider.com], not because he's into martyrdom.
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So, are you suggesting that Snowden wasn't being truthful? How far do you think that extends?
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Considering that his neighbors in US claim that he spent ages in front of the computer, it's pretty likely he was living like that for a while. There's only so much you can burn money on while working on publishing biggest leak of the century and he's been doing it for years.
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One way to separate out trolls from ordinary posts taking a contrary position is to read the parent post to see if the post in question answers a point in the parent post. A rationally stated point supported by related facts isn't a troll just because you disagree with it. If your primary basis for moderating down posts is that you simply disagree with the position, you don't support free debate as part of free speech. If you consistently act that way you are allying yourself with fascist principles.
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The case against Snowden is for espionage and computer crime, not for being a revolutionary.
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His material is working its way into the open US court system with very positive results http://www.freedomwatchusa.org/federal-judge-rules-against-nsa [freedomwatchusa.org]
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The courts will decide if he engaged in computer crime and espionage. So far his activity is little different on the face of it than Philby's except enhanced with Soviet style political warfare techniques. (Remember the Soviet AIDs disinformation campaign [latimes.com]?) Perhaps it is all as Snowden claims, or perhaps the former Soviet bloc intelligence officers are right and Snowden is a Russian asset. Russian intelligence tradecraft is among the best in the world, and they are patient.
As to the court cases, the onl
Re:Enough (Score:5, Insightful)
No, you really don't, as your comment below shows.
Really? What have you done lately? Perhaps you should stop trolling and consider doing something more productive.
If you are calling a man who's sacrificed his future for the future of others a narcissist for airing his opinions, then you are nothing more than a jealous little man with nothing of value to add. Please go away.
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then you are nothing more than a jealous little man with nothing of value to add. Please go away.
He is just somebody that is offering an opinion, just like you, or anybody else here. If the standard is that you have to steal nearly 2 million Top Secret intelligence documents before being able to offer an opinion here, then the forums will be very quiet indeed.
If you are calling a man who's sacrificed his future for the future of others a narcissist for airing his opinions, then you are nothing more than a jealous little man with nothing of value to add. Please go away.
Or it could be that he is essentially right, that Snowden has a martyr's complex [wikipedia.org], and what he has done will ultimately prove to be very harmful. Even if you accept the claims of his virtue at face value there is no really good way to judge since
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I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him
Is Snowden looking for the limelight, or is the media just hanging on his every word. Because really there's not really that much of him exposed, he doesn't say all that much at all. But there is a lot of exposure of what little there is. I think the media not Snowden should take the brunt of your distas
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He's not Jesus alright. For one, unlike Jesus, he actually exists and did something remarkable.
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There is little room for genuine doubt that Jesus existed. The record is too extensive and close in time to his time on earth.
There is plenty of room for doubt. Actually, that is the rational stance unless one has already made up their mind before hand. There's hardly any evidence outside the bible that Jesus actually existed, most of it probably about someone else (it was a common name at the time, no wonders nor crucifixion mentioned, etc.) or doctored by some zealous monk later on.
I'd provide support for my statement, but since you didn't either I can't be bothered right now.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, if someone fscking picked up the ball, there would be no need for him to speak up again. But just like the hush machine stifled all information about the totally non-working, systematically broken secret quasi-oversight, now the "is he a traitor" distraction is fully working and fscking nobody articulates what the consequences and vision of a life without privacy are. The closest to a serious comment I have seen is what Pamela Jones wrote [groklaw.net] before shuttering Groklaw. [groklaw.net]
Short of that: nothing. I can't be
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How the fuck is this insightful? Snowden is a goddamn hero who is tellign it like it is. Frankly the anti Snowden BS posters are the ones that need a good hard kick in the balls.
Re: Enough (Score:2)
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Yeah, and those soldiers who go to war so the people back home can live in peace. What's with that?
Re:Easy answer (Score:5, Insightful)
...and be surveilled on CCTV while they walk to/from the park on public sidewalks, and be surveilled yet again by cameras installed at the park.
Ed's point stands.
Re: Easy answer (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it isn't. Even in public places, you have some degree of privacy.
And mass surveillance is far, far different from some random person seeing you in a public place. I don't think they should even be compared. Privacy in regards to someone seeing you in a public place and privacy in regards to mass surveillance are two different things.
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I am failing to see the difference between distributed mass surveillance and a centrally operated one.
You honestly don't see the difference between the government installing surveillance equipment everywhere in public places that gives them the ability to 'be' in many places at once and collect all the data with a high degree of certainty and some random person who may or may not have a camera recording you and then perhaps uploading the footage to Youtube? Even if someone happens to record you, there is little reason they'd bother uploading the video unless something interesting happened. The government, h
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, easy answer: if you don't like the government sticking their nose in your private life, just become a hermit!
Ed really should try leaving his desk from time to time.
You should take that advice too, are you being paid overtime for this, by chance?
Re: (Score:2)
It isn't good for children to always have their noses stuck in a computer of some sort. There are plenty of other things they should be doing. That hardly constitutes being a "hermit."
Which does nothing to disprove Snowden's point. One can use a computer and still go outside, you know.
As to the rest of your post, it would be more convincing if it was posted tomorrow. And I could ask you the same question.
Unlike Americans, I don't have anything to celebrate on this day. I keep celebrating the way I did in the days of the Soviet Union, on December 31st. The Russian Orthodox Church sticks to the Julian calendar and celebrates on January 7, anyway.
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But I don't think you can really claim unqualified totalitarianism unless there is actual repression tied into it, especially political repression
Latest example of several that are on record: NSA used to squash the political movment: Occupy Wall Street [startpage.com]. So your right, it is now possible to make a claim for unqualified totalitarianism in this country.
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So you don't have any specific instances you care to quote? It is always possible to make the claim about "unqualified totalitarianism," it just isn't true. Besides that, the lawlessness in the camps and riots by the Occupy members that did occur were a local police problem, not an NSA problem.
Occupy Wall Street was a minor movement of the fringe left that went nowhere to the surprise of few people. I don't think they could get the scheduling committees to get "making a plan" on the agenda before the int
Re: (Score:3)
It was you who wrote, and I quote "I don't think you can really claim unqualified totalitarianism unless there is actual repression tied into it, especially political repression". I have given you many references to one specific well documented example where the NSA was involved in the identification and takedown of key leaders of a political movement. Perhaps you should have said something like: "I don't think you can really claim unqualified totalitarianism unless there is actual repression tied into it,
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Way offtopic now but out of curiosity: No expert on Chomsky or Cambodian Genocide I looked it up on wikipedia [wikipedia.org] and it appears you are right he did do that back in 1975-79, well done a verifiable fact and I am happy to agree with you on that one. As for your other claim all I did was go to the ultimate source and posted the actual short quote [slashdot.org], the one which you claimed proved Chomsky was a Holocaust denier. The quote does not appear to support your claim in any way, and you did not follow up with counter evid
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Watch the NSA Whistleblower Russell Tice videos on my website. Link provided in first post.
"they doing this to control people"
Link again: http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/russelltice-nsarnmebl.html [oregonstatehospital.net]
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Too many previous slave owners and their descendants still lives and have say in politics. It was serious error by US population not to charge them with crimes and let them keep the wealth acquired by using slave labor.
You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
According to the 1850 census, there were 347,525 slave owners in the United States out of a free population of nearly 20,000,000. Many of those were killed, and those that lived have few descendants relative to the total population today. The
Re:Slavery mentality in the USA still very strong (Score:4, Informative)
All it takes is 1% of surviving owners placed within state or federal structures. And you don't have too look very far. Just look at prominent politicians from South Carolina and their beliefs. Somehow slavery legacy still lives on.
Well, you don't get much more prominent as a politician than US Senator, so let's look [google.com]* at Senator Tim Scott, R-SC. He certainly looks like he's descended from slaveowners rather than slaves, right?
Also, Senator Scott took office after his predecessor resigned to take a different job; in South Carolina the Governor appoints a new Senator in this instance. Governor Nikki Haley, R-SC, who appointed Scott, is also a fairly prominent South Carolina politician. (After all, she's the governor.) Haley's parents immigrated from India; she isn't descended from slaveowners either.
You're talking out you ass about descendants of slaveowners. It's an easy rhetorical trick, but it's very clearly false.
*For those that aren't going to click the link, it goes to a Google Image Search showing pictures of Senator Scott, who is an African American.
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Governor Nikki Haley, R-SC, who appointed Scott, is also a fairly prominent South Carolina politician. (After all, she's the governor.) Haley's parents immigrated from India; she isn't descended from slaveowners either.
Debatable. Slavery has existed in India for quite a long time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_India [wikipedia.org]
Assuming that the United States had cornered the global market on slavery is very short sighted.
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All it takes is 1%? You are talking about people, not the bubonic plague.
I'm a South Carolinian and a descendant of slave holders going all the way back to the London Virginia Company. There are many painful legacies that are still alive and kicking, but you are making easy assumptions to generate invisible boogey men. It is like saying Germans are essentially evil because there are Nazis hanging on the family tree.
Because of your kind of logic I spent the first 18 years of my life wondering why the almight
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Too many previous slave owners and their descendants still lives and have say in politics. It was serious error by US population not to charge them with crimes
I suppose you arent familiar with the term "ex post facto law", or why they are not allowed in the US per the Constitution. Let me lay it out for you. If you start allowing people to be arrested for things that were legal when they were done but are now illegal, anyone can be arrested at any time on the whim of the legislature.
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Haven't you heard of SIgnals Intelligence? They don't need cameras and microphones to watch and hear you in your house. And they can read your mind with remote brain-computer interfaces, capturing the evoked potentials of your neurons, decoding the signals, to see what you see, hear, think, feel, dream, remember, and all your sensations and motor commands can be recorded, too. There is even a patent from1998 that covers all this.
In addition to that, if Signals Intelligence points their satellites at your ho