NSA Chief Keith Alexander Takes His PRISM Pitch To YouTube 165
Daniel_Stuckey writes "There's definitely something strange about the video's attempt at looking/sounding like a NOVA episode. Alexander, who defended the agency at Black Hat this summer and recently announced his retirement next year, takes care to emphasize the agency's privacy compliance precautions and oversight. 'We have not had any willful or knowing violations in those programs,' he says referring to sections 215 and 702 of the Patriot Act, which relate to the telephone metadata and PRISM programs respectively. 'There have been [violations] in other programs, but not in those two.'"
Have they not worked it out yet? (Score:5, Insightful)
All the lies and deceit that has come along from them so far means that WE. DO. NOT. TRUST. WHAT. YOU. SAY.
Your words are pointless, because you are almost certainly lying. "How do you know when an NSA spokesman is lying?" "His lips are moving"
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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So if they say nothing, you can sit there and whine that they have no transparency and refuse to even communicate about their operations, but if they do, then it's all bullshit. So really, it doesn't matter what they do at all at this point because you will say that it's all bullshit. In effect, you've given them every incentive to not change at all.
Re:Have they not worked it out yet? (Score:4, Insightful)
In effect, you've given them every incentive to not change at all.
No. I think people just want them to do more than just talk. I think people want them to stop what they're doing.
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And how would they prove that they did more than talk? They can't. So, if they came out and said they were going to make a bunch of changes to eliminate illegal spying, you wouldn't believe it anyway. Lets just be honest here...it's a no-win situation for them no matter what. Lets not pretend otherwise.
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And how would they prove that they did more than talk?
By actually supporting policies that will help prevent nonsense such as this from happening to begin with.
Lets just be honest here...it's a no-win situation for them no matter what.
And they have only themselves to blame. Actually, people with a bit of knowledge of history are always cautious of the government by default.
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Yeah I'm sure you'd believe them if they suddenly started supporting such policies.
As for the "they have only themselves to blame", you're wrong. The government should have arranged independent oversight long ago.
In any event, thanks for proving my point. They have no incentive to change at all. I sure as fuck wouldn't.
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Yeah I'm sure you'd believe them if they suddenly started supporting such policies.
You assume you know what I think in order to... make your point more valid? Can I start telling you what you believe? I'd rather not... because it's utterly ridiculous.
If they followed up with actual, public actions, and caused real policies to be put into place that would greatly reduce the chances of something like this happening again, I'd be more inclined to believe them.
As for the "they have only themselves to blame", you're wrong.
They don't have themselves to blame for abusing their powers? Interesting.
In any event, thanks for proving my point.
I didn't prove any point of yours.
They have no incentive to change at all.
Of course they do. What th
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What we see in that video, is an attempt at damage control. NSA has taken several hard hits over the past months, and they are "reaching out" in an attempt to lull the herds.
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"What makes you so sure?"
The same way secret wars, drone strikes, and secret assassinations make us sure the U.S. government is hiding a fuck-tonne.
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Again, what did they internally call those privacy violations of partners / love interests? LOVEINTEL? SIGLOVE?
Yeah, "we know no violation" my ass.
Re:Have they not worked it out yet? (Score:5, Funny)
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I've got mod points, and I was gonna mod sI4shd0rk's comment "Interesting", but instead I'll put a note here for the benefit of others that I must admit I find your comment rather sexy as well.
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I guess that explains why you created a child comment with it.
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well they were associated with the program that pulls out the data from the database where PRISM puts it - so there were no violations in the PRISM ;). ...seriously though, isn't this guy admitting publicly that NSA broke the law, by admitting violations of which nothing were done about but washing his hands because "it's not prism"...
They are preaching to the sheeples ... (Score:5, Insightful)
All the lies and deceit that has come along from them so far means that WE. DO. NOT. TRUST. WHAT. YOU. SAY.
Don't you get it yet ?
They are using Youtube, a place where the sheeples congregate
They are NOT talking to the people like you and me --- they are talking AT the sheeples
As long as the sheeples in America ( and the world ) believe their lies, and the sheeples do believe them, NSA will get to continue their deceits without any hindrance
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FTFY
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I've worked it out... (Score:5, Interesting)
What makes you so sure?
That they are STILL trying to hide something BIG? Years in the telecom and ISP business, NSA-watching since the Internet went global and way before. I am one of those people who might have become a spook, though I am glad I did not [breakfornews.com]. From its all-to-brief brief mention in David Kahn's The Codebreakers [1967] [wikipedia.org] which I carried around as a kid like some overstuffed bible, my interest was piqued by James Bamford's Puzzle Palace [1982] [wikipedia.org] which introduced the world to the topic of the 'piggyback slurp' and laid out directly NSA's intentions to tap the world. The whole world -- Charter be damned -- from the start.
A few anecdotes from good friends in the telecommunications trade who alluded to special cordoned-off spaces within AT&T's Magens Point cable terminus in St. Thomas US Virgin Islands, drunken conversation in bars with reminders not to speak of such things... a rather suspicious 'underwater landslide' fiber outage between St. Thomas and Puerto Rico c.1995, which I suspected at the time might involve a submarine because a telco friend noticed that after all his voice circuits were back there was an eyebrow-raising 'unusually long period' before the data circuits came up, even though they were physically interspersed and not supposed to be broken out at the carrier level... circumstantial stuff, sure. Pure speculation is as fascinating as the real thing.
Since then, revelations about Room 614A and Hepting vs. AT&T [eff.org], the little mouse who could have roared all the way to the Supreme Court, had they not declined to hear the case.
I'm not talking about individual stakeouts or FISA warrants or occasional 'oopsies' of a few domestic intercepts. I'm discussing large scale Tier 1 total interception of data with selective routing and forwarding of target traffic onto side channels via 'dark' or leased fiber on a scale that is approaching 'total'. This includes voice too: terrestrially trunked cell calls and landline (there is practically no difference these days, it's all turkeyfart compressed).
Which is why I posted here back in June my theory that PRISM slides were made as part of a limited hang-out [slashdot.org]. I came to this conclusion because I found the allegation that Internet service providers named grant direct back-doors to NSA to be preposterous (and still do, too much risk of exposure by now). The purpose of the hang-out was for Google and company to discredit the allegations honesty to relegate it to 'hoax' status... and provide a topic that diverts attention away from the total-tap-slurp operation.
Steve Gibson of Gibson Research has come up with another theory that I find interesting, it may fit Occam's Razor better than my own. He presented it recently in Security Now #408: The State of Surveillance [grc.com], audio and full transcript available. GOOD STUFF. His angle is that "direct access to their servers" means all unencrypted SMTP-mail and HTTP from tap points directly upstream. It is all about fiber and taps. Taps are about splitting light... and that is what prisms do.
If you have a good traffic tap and encrypted intercepts, add a bit of coercion for the providers to divulge their private SSL keys and they can replay the past SSL sessions they have gathered.
It is time for everyone to learn about and implement Perfect Forward Secrecy [qualys.com].
Thar be dragins in our midst. Slay them.
NSA and the Desolation of Smaug [slashdot.org]
By a strange coincidence (Score:2, Insightful)
when accused thieves an murderers are in the dock, they always assure us they are innocent too. "I may have done some minor thing, but not what I am accused of. Definitely not." And they generally believe it. Mental gymnastics should be an olympic sport.
Bullshit! (Score:1)
Like you'd do anything but lie to us anyway.
Willful or knowing violations (Score:5, Insightful)
So, just involuntary and ignorant violations, then.
Re:Willful or knowing violations (Score:5, Interesting)
So, just involuntary and ignorant violations, then.
I see what you did here and more people should be doing this, listen to what words he uses and then think, "why is he using these words and could he be trying to sidestep the truth with the use of selected words."
Because that's that he is doing!
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Naturally, there's a clause in the constitution and bill of rights that says it's okay to violate basic human rights (all men are created equal, not just usaonians) as long as it's unintended or they are really really sorry and they mean it.
Oversight is an intereting word. (Score:1)
Later on he could claim the opposite of what you think he meant.
Children (Score:1)
The NSA thinks you are a child that needs their protection, and you don't know what is best for you. That's how they think of the people who vote.
He lied ... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Because that would make Barry look bad.
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The DOJ is responsible for enforcement of that in Washington DC. Eric Holder, who has also recently lied to Congress, has informed the DC police to not prosecute just as he told them not to do the same to him before.
Re:He lied ... (Score:5, Interesting)
. . . because the NSA has collected enough poop on every member of Congress and blackmailed them. J. Edgar Hoover did this back in his days, as well.
Congress is afraid of the NSA.
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This is why we need a new Continental Congress to basically "overwrite" the current one. All of these assholes should be up against the wall for a cleansing ritual.
Re:He lied ... (Score:5, Interesting)
You poor, clueless fool. A Constitutional Congress is the LAST THING we need right now. If one were convened, who in HELL do you think will actually sit at the table, to author the freaking documents? Do you really want representatives of RIAA to help author, then vote, on a new constitution? Think - that's what God gave you all that gray matter inside your skull for.
What we NEED, is to get rid of all those judges who believe the Constitution to be a "living document". We NEED a lot more real conservatives in judge positions. And, by "conservative", I certainly DO NOT MEAN neoconservatives, corporate lobbyists, or representatives of the military industrial complex. I mean, real, actual conservatives. There are so few of them left today.
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Source?
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That's insane. Congress has the ability to shut down the NSA at a moment's notice. If they were all being blackmailed, they'd just get together and announce that the NSA is blackmailing them, that's it's anti-democratic, and so they're shutting it down. They can override any veto. If the NSA were to respond by releasing dirt on everyone, it would just prove Congress's point.
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Can't Congress shut down NSA?
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...no.
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Why is he not in prison?
Why would they send him to prison for doing what he's paid to do?
Re:He lied ... (Score:4, Informative)
Because whistle blowers get put in prison these days.
Re:He lied ... (Score:5, Informative)
He lied to Congress
It was Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper [slate.com] who lied to congress, not Alexander. At least not provably.
It is important that we keep the facts straight, every stray bullet is an excuse for the pro-NSA types to discredit our position.
Assertion without evidence - dismiss without it (Score:5, Insightful)
It's nice that you say so. The problem is: I don't believe you. I cannot. There is no oversight whatsoever concerning your actions. You say that no transgressions happen, that's nice. But let's say I assert that I'm no terrorist, does that mean you stop spying on me? No. Why? Because you cannot verify that I'm not.
So why the hell should I believe you without any kind of evidence or any kind of ability to verify your claims?
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Don't forget that they've been hard at work redefining everything from "what torture is" to "what does or does not count as a violation of the law".
You're not violating anything if you've forced people to rewrite the rules for you.
Except people, but it's quite obvious they've never cared about those.
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So why the hell should I believe you without any kind of evidence or any kind of ability to verify your claims?
Pffft .. because you're a gullible twit of course. You should definitely believe what the government tells you, after all .. you can trust the government.
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There are times when you can trust the government. If we all give $100 to the government to build a road, the road gets built. They can't lie about the road existing. If the road doesn't get built, the politicians get voted out of office. Yes, there can be corruption, etc, but this isn't much different from the private sector.
The big difference between conservatives and liberals is that the stuff the liberals spend money on can be audited. Security and defense, OTOH, is a gigantic black hole. Guess where mo
Re:Assertion without evidence - dismiss without it (Score:4)
If twenty million of us give government a dollar each to build a road, a road will be built. The value of the road will be about six million, and the remaining fourteen million will be used to attack little brown men on camels with drones.
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and the remaining fourteen million will be used to attack little brown men on camels with drones**.
** Only the ones riding on oil fields.
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But let's say I assert that I'm no terrorist
Exactly what a terrorist would say. You're going on the super-duper snoop list.
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Assertion without evidence - dismiss without it
It's nice that you say so. The problem is: I don't believe you. I cannot. There is no oversight whatsoever concerning your actions.
In view of the first part of your statement, can you back up the claim that there is no oversight whatsoever? That seems to be an assertion without evidence.
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Ohh, nice comeback!
But it's trivial to assert that there is no oversight: I really have none. If you do, please present it to me. That's a bit different from the NSAs inability to prove their claim since it's unlikely they'll be opening their books unblackened.
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That's a good point. I haven't paid good attention to the primary sources of information here. In my mind, the past months of news have coagulated to an impression that mr. James Clapper was questioned by the US Government oversight committee of the security apparatus (I don't know the official name, or whether that's Senate or House of Representatives
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That's where you are conflating these issues. PRISM was engaged in without even FISA warrants. That is what they mean when they say "warrantless wire tapping". This isn't FBI Security Letters we are talking about here. This is a wholesale fishing expedition.
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Well, technically we should not believe Snowden. But since NSA and US government pretty much confirmed his accusations, I'd say that counts as admission of guilt.
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Did he break a law of the US? Yes. Well, everyone who fled from the GDR broke a GDR law, so we should have sent them back?
In moments like this, especially when international interests are touched, I can't really go with what's "legal" and "illegal". I'd rather go with what's "right" and what's not.
I don't really see how Snowden would be in any danger in the US. Or maybe I just fail to see all the "hang Snowden" protests in the streets, I only get to see the kind that asks for him to be acquitted for doing t
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Odd how the US and Russia traded their places in the good vs bad game, eh?
And I hope it doesn't come as too much of a surprise that the relations between the US and Germany have been cooling down a bit, just last week the German Chancellor found out that her phone has been bugged by the NSA. Think Obama would be happy about it if it happened to him? Hell, he might even be pissed enough that he could find a few words to say about it without even needing a teleprompter!
That the US isn't happy about Snowden ra
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That's what the NSA is supposed to do from the US point of view. But then again, all the accusations are from an US point of view too, while the rest of the world won't give a rat's ass about them. For all I care, Snowden didn't do anything wrong. Sure, he wronged the US, but why the heck should that bother me?
And, bluntly, I don't think the US justice is the place where the truth matters in this particular case. The US justice has been about making examples lately a bit too much to put any kind of faith in
Surprise (Score:2, Insightful)
A pathological liar telling lies. You should be scared shitless that slime like this have so much power.
Should DoD be propagandizing directly to public? (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't this amount to the Department of the Defense propagandizing directly to the U.S. public? What is acceptable and what is not?
I can see press conferences, announcements, and factual information, but when does it become an attempt to persuade the public?
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They are just trying to win your hearts and minds :P~
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Didn't you notice that he'd retired? So he's not (officially) a government spokesman.
Re:Should DoD be propagandizing directly to public (Score:5, Informative)
I did not notice this, for the simple reason that it hasn't happened. He has announced his intention to retire next year.
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Sorry, I misread. You are right.
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He has retired next year.
In case that doesn't sound right, it is because he hasn't retired yet, he will be retiring in the future. So officially, he is still a government spokesman until he actually does retire. And that is only a given if he doesn't make some deal to continue as one after retirement.
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He has announced his future retirement, he is not presently retired.
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Doesn't this amount to the Department of the Defense propagandizing directly to the U.S. public? What is acceptable and what is not?
I can see press conferences, announcements, and factual information, but when does it become an attempt to persuade the public?
Oh, you didn't hear? They repealed the law that forbade the US government from using it's (formerly) foreign propaganda tools and assets domestically against US citizens.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130715/11210223804/anti-propaganda-ban-repealed-freeing-state-dept-to-direct-its-broadcasting-arm-american-citizens.shtml [techdirt.com]
http://reason.com/24-7/2013/07/15/with-ban-repealed-us-aims-propaganda-mac [reason.com]
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/17/1224321/-U-S-Government-Repeals-Ban-Opens-Floodgate-to-Mass-Agitprop-Me [dailykos.com]
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I get propaganda from both sides in my mailbox on a daily basis. The left's arguments appeal to one's intelligence, the right appeals to emotion. However, when you think about it, both sides want the same thing: Working government, a safety net should shit happen, protection against crime, raising their kids in a better place than they were raised in, and so on.
However, the education system in the US is pitiful and corrupt. Doing like France and going to a voucher system is one idea, but what it would r
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I get propaganda from both sides in my mailbox on a daily basis. The left's arguments appeal to one's intelligence, the right appeals to emotion.
Hmm, well, I find exactly the opposite. There was a study done by a prestigious university (Yale, IIRC) here recently that I'm too lazy to Google that shocked the Yale professor conducting the study, that revealed that TEA Party members score higher on science knowledge than the average, and above those who self-identify as Left/Democrat.
In any case, the politicians in both parties want the same things, just not the things you mentioned so much. They want to protect their incumbent position. They want to in
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This a thousand times.
Thanks. I was wondering if anyone read all that and grasped the concepts I was trying to communicate.
I got on a roll getting these concepts all typed out, and was actually surprised my post ended up being so long. Ah, well. It's extremely difficult to put such large & far-reaching concepts into few words and still communicate those concepts accurately and effectively.
Strat
It will take more than that.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Thanks Alexander, I feel much better (Score:2)
We have not had any willful or knowing violations in those programs,' he says referring to sections 215 and 702 of the Patriot Act
That's good news. It's just the NSA spying on me. I was getting worried for a moment.
The entire program is a violation (Score:3, Interesting)
How about that for starters? It's about time to end martial law after 9/11!
The patriot act is about as patriotic as the Federal reserve is federal...
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This [slashdot.org] sort of thing can add tinder to starting wars. The NSA along with a few other organisations are actually serious liabilities to a peaceful and prosperous US.
So, this right to bear arms in order to keep the government in check... when are you going to start threatening to use them?
Or are you being stopped because the NSA is monitoring and stifling anyone who makes such noises?
Go ahead, flame me. But my question still stands... when are the people of the US going to make a stand (though preferably wi
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We have not had any willful or knowing violations (Score:2)
"We have not had any willful or knowing violations in those programs"
Just violations caused by incompetence.
On a more serious note; doesn't the leaking of the very existence of the programs count as a willful and knowing violation of the program?
He's being tossed to the wolves (Score:5, Informative)
Outlived his usefulness, and being allowed to hang himself in the court of public opinion.
Check the like vs dislike counts on youtube (157 vs 9,993 at the time of writing).
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He must be a pretty confused dissident then if he's defending the NSA.
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Not convinced (Score:2, Insightful)
When Comrade Alexander posts the full log of his phone calls and visited websites for the past year he might earn credibility amongst the proletariat. No harm done, because it's only metadata, right?
Dear NSA Director Gen. Keith Alexander, (Score:2)
It's very nice of you to take the time and sit down and try to explain your actions. It's clear that you believe that the NSA has a set of duties and those duties require or even demand the sort of wide-spread surveillance that has, willfully or not, broached a very core aspect of your own self-worth. In trying to defend your actions, you make it patently clear that you know you've done something wrong. Unfortunately, the position you are in does not inherently give you the perspective on why so many peo
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Nice. But don't expect too much. The psychopath that had this position before is still justifying abduction and torture and seems to even be proud of them. The real problem is of course how anybody in power can step so far outside of common human decency and not be called out on it.
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The real problem is of course how anybody in power can step so far outside of common human decency and not be called out on it.
Who watches the watchmen?
In this world, no-one. Which is why they don't care.
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Snowden hat no access to PRISM and phone metadata? (Score:3)
Somebody seems to be lying here. Maybe the guy that thinks his agency is perfect, despite massive evidence to the contrary?
phone content (Score:2)
just flag the clip as SCAM (Score:2)
and be done with it. Its all lies anyway.
Of course he denies! (Score:2)
Artical 4 of the Bill of Rights (Score:1)
Article [IV]
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Threat narrative? Yeah, fuck right off. (Score:5, Insightful)
Just a reminder: Heart Disease and Accidents cause more deaths every single year than over four hundred 9/11's. It's been over a decade now... That's more than 4000 September 11th sized attacks. Are you scared to eat and/or drive now? That's how fucking pathetic the fear narrative is.
This is America. We drive fast cars to fast food restaurants without a second thought. You want me to continue to ALLOW an expensive totalitarian spying apparatus to protect us from 0.00025 the danger we face from cars and cheeseburgers? What the fuck can the ineffectual terrorists do? If the NSA wanted to protect us they'd be making tastier health food and building self driving cars or the Hyper-Loop.
Fucking "intelligence" bullshit; Protip: All government labels mean the opposite. "PATRIOT Act", yeaaah. "Intelligence?" hahah... oh man. No wonder the basement dwelling NSA stinks so bad. If they're afraid of terrorists, just imagine how they feel about the many times greater threat of falling down in the bathtub!
When the Constitution dies? (Score:2)
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Uncanny (Score:2)
Keith Alexander, director of the NSA and commander of US Cyber Command, comes off as a weird dude and, you know, a literal tool.
Am I the only one that find the description of Keith Alexander in the article uncannily applicable to cold fjord?
Defcon speech was eye opening event (Score:2)
What hit me like a mac truck carrying 39.5 tons of bricks all those peoples at Defcon applauding Alexander's various statements. They get paid by industry and governments to play cat and mouse games they are essentially on the same side.
It just isn't TLA overreach that is my enemy it's significant entrenched interests profiting off the sorry state of heavily used technologies while throwing wrenches or at least making no effort of any sort to correct underlying issues.
As for PRISM pitch there is nothing to
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Because that's far from the interests of anyone who could shift the focus on things that matter. Why the hell should the powers that are keep us from bickering over whether or not someone's imaginary friend's opinion should matter on whether or not someone may fuck someone else? As long as this keeps people sufficiently distracted they won't bother looking at any problems that might actually matter.
Re:Much ado about nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
People are wringing their hands over an automated system that might see your super secret facebook Like of the latest Lil Bub video
Yeah! Who cares if they spy on everyone and blatantly violate the constitution? No big deal. No government has ever abused their powers or used information to their advantage. Also, laws are unchanging and always just, so what could possibly go wrong?
Re:Much ado about nothing (Score:4, Insightful)
Umm... That is sort of the American left's mantra. The Constitution is a living document which meaning changes as society changes and holding it to strict interpretation is obsolete. Why would you think they would be concerned with protecting it or it's enforcement or the ramifications of it?
That is something the American right and/or people who actually give a fuck about this country simply do not understand. Hell, even many on the left who do care don't understand it but follow that ideology to some degree because it is convenient to their other goals. There are entities who care fuck all about the constitution, what limits it places on the government's abilities (unless they conveniently need them at the moment), as long as their version of whatever makes it through. Expecting them to care is simply foolish.
Seriously, we just had a law passed (PPACA) that couldn't survive on it's own merits constitutionally and the Supreme Court had to rewrite a penalty provision to become a tax penalty that completely bypasses the 5th amendment's due process of law clause in order to force it into compliance with the Constitution and the American Left are championing it as a great victory over the mean terrorist republicans. Despite 16 million people with insurance loosing that coverage due to the strict grandfather clause in the law, Despite massive increases in premiums for those who get to keep their insurance, despite companies dropping employee hours to avoid full time employees, despite companies dumping retirement coverage onto medicare and the exchanges, despite companies dumping spousal coverage if they work because they can get insurance elsewhere now, we have an administration that rewards it's political allies by giving unions and large companies waivers and delays but will not delay the mandate for the common man even though the exchanges are completely messed up right now. And you expect them to understand or care about anything other then their agenda.
Now stop bothering me, I gotta find out what Brittany is doing next.
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More specifically, the Constitution was meant as a framework, and as that it is relatively loose in its terminology and definitions, and doesn't really establish much law. The Bill of Rights (first 10 amendments that came about 15 years later) added most of that.
But we're talking NSA here, and their charter SPECIFICALLY forbids them from spying on Americans (with FISA/Patriot Act exception if they are talking with foreigners) intentionally or not, and they have been proven to be doing that. This is a felony
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It's ok, I don't expect much from you. You are not supposed to understand anything I wrote in order to understand the law. Everything I wrote about the law was either because of the law or something that happened to the law and not the law in and of itself. What you are supposed to understand is the fucked mindset that sites behind the entire enterprise resulting from the law's passage, it's manipulations in order to be claimed constitutional, and it's impact on society due to it's implementation.
If you don
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"Try having a conversation with a liberal progressive about GMOs—genetically modified organisms—in which the words “Monsanto” and “profit” are not dropped like syllogistic bombs"
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Wow - it's clear that YOU aren't partisan! Thank all that is holy for that!
And, with that my sarcasm detector is bitching about the OUTGOING sarcasm!
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NSA's job to spy on me because being a foreigner makes me a terrorist risk
Being a foreigner has nothing to do with it, nor does terrorism. Those are just excuses to excercise extreme control.
After over 50 years of perverse corruption, the US population is finally waking up to the fact that the US political system is a hot bed of plutocratic corruption. The very few people pulling the strings are totally shit scared of the population realising this, so they're trying to keep a lid on their carefully manufactured system falling to pieces. They do this by monitoring the populati