New Zealand Parliament Votes To Extend Spying Powers 148
pinkstuff writes "Amid protests and much opposition New Zealand parliament has just passed a bill which allows the The Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) greater spying powers."
A proposition... (Score:1)
Dear Zealanders
Perhaps it would be wise to suggest to rename your country to Nanny Zealand or New Nannyland.
Your fellow European
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Do you think you are not being monitored here in the Old Continent ?
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If I am on fire, I still may be able to accurately identify whether or not YOU are on fire as well.
Re:A proposition... (Score:5, Insightful)
First they came for Bradley Manning, and I said nothing because I am not in the army.
Then they came for Julian Assange, and I said nothing because I am not a hacker.
Then they came for Edward Snowden, and I said nothing because I am not a defence contractor.
Then they came for the Guardian, and I said nothing because I am not in the media.
Then they came for me. And there were no whistle blowers left to say anything.
Re:A proposition... (Score:5, Insightful)
Every time you use teh interwebs, you are endangering national security.
Every time you leave the house, you are endangering national security.
Every time you stay at home, you are endangering national security.
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Consider that they are tracking everyone.
Which means everyone is a suspect.
And they wouldn't be suspects if they weren't guilty.
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Q. What do you call an innocent civilian?
A. A criminal who hasn't broken the law yet.
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Q. What do you call an innocent civilian?
A. A criminal who hasn't been convicted yet.
Alternate Answer (Score:2)
A. Backlog.
Keeping up with the Joneses (Score:5, Funny)
Obviously post-Snowden, they realise how much they need to catch up to the American standard.
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Obviously post-Snowden, they realise how much they need to catch up to the American standard.
If Antonio Prohias were still alive he would have a field day with this.
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Indeed. If they do not know what their citizens have eaten for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, then they haven't gone far enough!
You could say they are in the business of knowing everything about everything. They just want the world to act in a practical, responsible matter, with no deviations from established behavioral patterns. [nocookie.net]
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the American standard
That's ok, you can get American Standards [americanstandard-us.com] pretty easily these days.
Re:Keeping up with the Joneses (Score:5, Interesting)
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Err no. They are being TOLD to catch up by america by america.
This particular party has always wanted to cosy up to the US and do whatever it wants. In this case they want access to the global spying the US is doing on everyone. There is a secret "free" trade agreement being created and signed up to at this time also which undoubtedly has something to do with it..
However.
This bill will enable the cops/govt departments to get access to the GCSB intelligence and for that not to be an offence This bill was in
Borg, James Borg (Score:1)
Codename? (Score:5, Funny)
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I'd go with Rocks [staticflickr.com]
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Sheep?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sheep
Description: 1,2,4,5,6,7 etc applies here.
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Screw keel designs, they just need some way of stopping the boats from breaking in anything above 18kts.
Public opinion doesn't matter (Score:5, Interesting)
For a long time, governments of modern democracies have been rather afraid of public opinion and the press, and have avoided doing things that would result in protests and opposition.
Then at some point they realized they could bribe the press, and that the public's opinion doesn't really matter, nor does it amount to much or lead to much violence in a society of over-fed TV addicts. Today's protesters are all bark and no bite, and the powers-that-be know it full well. So they do whatever the fuck they want without even trying to be discreet about it.
That's where we're at right now. Welcome to a new form of tyranny, in which dictators are "democrats" who resort on soothing words and the complicity of mass-media to pussify the populace and keep it in check. Violence and outright dictatorship is so yesteryear...
Re:Public opinion doesn't matter (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder if it had something to do with better security at public events and better investigative techniques. As recently as around WW1 it was common for unpopular politicians to be assassinated and the killer could get away with it without too much trouble. Over time it became harder to kill politicians and get away with it, until we're in today's situation where there are anti-sniper teams around these appearances, the buildings the politicians reside in are armored and it's practically impossible. They're safer from the angry masses than the 1700s French aristocracy could have ever dreamed of. They have nothing to fear.
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Assassination isn't part of the democratic process.
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It certainly shouldn't be, but maybe it was acting as a hackish fix for a very flawed democracy and giving a better outcome than the system would have had without it. Now we have no way to address overwhelming public disapproval, especially in the face of limited alternatives (another big flaw in current democracies).
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If public disapproval truly is overwhelming rather than rhetorical, it can either be fixed at the next election or by recall election (if available). If you want to try to portray assassination as a legitimate tool of redress in a democratic system you should probably stop complaining about "rule of law" issues.
Democracy is known to be a flawed system of government, it is the worst, other than all the rest.
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You must not be familiar with the concept of voting, and the law.
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You must not be familiar with how the 2-party state really works.
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You must not be familiar with how literal blood feuds work. That is no way to run a country. If you think it will be an improvement, you are sadly mistaken. You've been carried away by rhetoric into the fever swamp.
Re:Public opinion doesn't matter (Score:4, Interesting)
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A plutocracy? I didn't catch that. What is the minimum income level to vote now?
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
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That's a nice rant, but the US is and has always been a Republic, not a Democracy.
These terms are not mutually exclusive. Generally speaking, Western Republics are democracies.
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A plutocracy? I didn't catch that. What is the minimum income level to vote now?
Theres a minimum income level to be voted for; have to pay for the advertising. Its not cheap.
Re:Public opinion doesn't matter (Score:4, Informative)
OP here. New Zealand has a Proportional Representation [wikipedia.org] based governement. This makes it less of a two horse race as every vote counts. Quite minor parties will have representation in government. There are also quite small spending caps for campaigning leading up to elections. For the most part it works quite well, and I still believe it is one of the most truely democratic countries.
This is what makes all of this so much worse, it is the first time in living memory there has been such strong public opposition to a bill and it has been passed anyway. A recent poll suggests 89% of New Zealanders oppose the bill [3news.co.nz].
There is more than meets the eye here, the way the Prime Minister is forcing this through is very fishy to me, it seems like he is being pushed into it. Here is a quote from a recent press conference:
“Prime Minister, numerous legal jurors have informed us publicly that they disagree with you wholeheartedly, that you are taking broad powers, which would allow you to invade privacyand you are saying that all those people are wrong” a journalist said to Key. “Correct,” the Prime Minister said before immediately interrupting the rest of the question by asking, “Is this a question buddy?”
So, the Human Rights Commission, the Law Society [stuff.co.nz] and the general population don't want the bill to pass, and yet it does (just).
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What prevents an opposition party from promising to revoke that law if they win the elections?
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They have nothing to fear.
But plenty to hide. :-)
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Meh, they only hide things that would cause annoying and time-consuming public outrage. It's a convenience thing.
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Then at some point they realized they could take over the press, and that the public could be manipulated more effectively than ever before
FTFY.
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This is what Plato wrote about, and the Romans invented a cool variant on: "bread and circuses". The latter led to / supported tyranny, the Empire.
Plato observed a cycle in Greek city-states: aristocracy to timocracy, to an oligarchy, to a democracy, to tyranny and thence back to aristocracy.
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For a long time, governments of modern democracies have been rather afraid of public opinion and the press, and have avoided doing things that would result in protests and opposition.
When would that have been, exactly? The first US president to shove an unpopular policy (a whiskey tax) down the throats of the masses was George Washington - leading to one of the 2 times in US history that an American president has actually commanded troops as president. The French revolutionary governments were so unpopular that they decided to scrap the whole thing and put Napoleon in charge. The Italians, Germans, and Romanians tried it in the 1920's and bungled it so badly that many thought the fascis
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The difference is that one only appears to be true because the voters make it true. American voters are lazy. Lazy in how they vote, lazy in their political understanding and lazy in how they spend their dollars. This allows corruption to continue. I don't believe th
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Today's protesters are all bark and no bite
Not everywhere, protests in France often turn into riots for example.
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Bullshit. You're just rationalizing the fact that you're too goddamn lazy to do anything by telling yourself it is hopeless.
First world problems. (Score:3)
Living in the first world is starting to make me feel slightly enslaved. More or less my existence is limited by what our elected overlords have deemed permissible. I think now I get the futurama quote of "I don't want to live on this planet anymore". I certainly don't like living in a state of Australia where the constitution states that the parliament can make a law for whatever reason it wishes (with a couple of minor exclusions).
This form of representative democracy is in effect tyranny and more importantly treasonous, it is slowly relegating us to serfdom
Re:First world problems. (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm starting with the soap box, and the ballot box will soon follow. We'll see how many boxes it takes until we see change. Part of the problem with the West is that we've lost the realisation that change is possible and is driven by public choice. We get the government we deserve, and I am damned well going to make my vote in September count.
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The real question is what are we going to do about it? I'm getting increasingly interested in the political process - I've written my MP and the opposite candidate about my views on these things. I've told them my vote is contingent on a roll-back on policies such as this (along with airport scanners).
All that accomplished was to push you up the list of subversives to keep an eye on. This is why Lenin and Alexander Hamilton used pseudonyms.
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True that.
We all agree we have a huge problem, but we don't seem to have any way of solving it.
What I think could work, but with lots of efforts and time, is to take back politics from below.
Take part in your local politics, where you as an individual can make a difference: run, support a better candidate or just keep a close eye on what your representatives are doing.
Start cleaning up there: this will make your fellow citizens feel more empowered and will hinder the careers of dishonest politicians wannabe
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Catch up on what the neighbours are watching (Score:3, Interesting)
A: No, the army has got the gun this week and it's the turn of the police next week.
To be a bit more serious they are probably only catching up on what Australia and the US are getting out of NZ communications via the Australian company Telstra that owns most of the NZ communication networks now. Telstra have already admitted that they give US agencies access to their networks without a warrant.
Re: Catch up on what the neighbours are watching (Score:3)
Telstra was only ever a minor player in the NZ telecommunications market.
And last year, they sold the entirety of their operation to Vodafone New Zealand.
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They're organizing... [youtube.com]
Apparently they have a reason (Score:2)
Al Qaeda-Trained Terrorists in New Zealand, Prime Minister Says [foreignpolicy.com]
Earlier this month, as the United States rushed to shutter embassies in response to a terrorist threat, New Zealand's prime minister made a remarkable but largely overlooked assertion. According to John Key, there are al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula-trained individuals at large in his country.
"In New Zealand there are people who've been trained for al-Qaeda camps who operate out of New Zealand, who are in contact with people overseas, who have gone off to Yemen and other countries to train," he told a radio program in New Zealand on Aug. 1. "Some are still offshore and some are in New Zealand."
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The only terrorists we have had in NZ were French.
Remember the Rainbow Warrior
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How would they know that if they don't have enough spying powers to know that?
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Once you travel to Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia or a few other such places for any reason, you immediately become one of the most suspicious people on the planet. Few things could raise a bigger red flag. The "terrorists" are probably just middle-easterners visiting their families on vacation.
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What bugs me more is that Key's conversation with Banks is private, but anything and everything I do should not be. Why not? Because we can trust John Key, even though he's a two-faced lying probable sociopath.
Re:Apparently they have a reason (Score:5, Insightful)
So what. Fuck 'em. Life is a bit dangerous, time to accept that and stop pissing away rights and stop jumping at every shadow the government points at. The terrorists don't actually do much damage, just spread fear; Hence the name... You're far more likely to die in an auto accident or of heart disease... Where's all the fear of automobiles and fast food? War is what causes damage, that and all the stupid fear-mongering.
Protip: There were no WMDs. The Red Scare was just fear. A Threat Narrative is what's used to manufacture consent, it doesn't have to be truthful, just scary. The governments and media are the biggest terrorist, depending on what word you use to mean "the spread of terror to achieve political goals". So, yeah, you can't turn on a TV without seeing a terrorist. Big Fucking Deal.
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You're far more likely to die in an auto accident or of heart disease... Where's all the fear of automobiles and fast food?
Indeed. About 3000 people have died from terrorism *since* 2001 [nbcnews.com] 10 times more people die (PDF warning) *each year* [cdc.gov] by suicide. The numbers and justifications for all this "yeahbut think of teh terroristss!!" malarkey is just that. Malarkey. Malarkey based on irrational fear, scooped up and eaten by a drama staved public.
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Yeah. Maybe Dalton Trumbo can write the screenplay. I hear he's good.
Couple things. (Score:1)
I've been thinking about this.... the whole "scared of everything" generation.
about 10-15 years ago the hubub was about Helicopter Parents (like mine), or maybe it was just media BS.
Now I work for someone who is SO paranoid that she won't walk 20 feet outside our building (in a very safe area) after dark without an escort.
I think the people who were insane about safety finally had their kids go off to college, now they've turned their insanity on the world.
People seem to be trading everything they can't und
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They've come for the sheep!
So much for retiring there (Score:5, Insightful)
*removes New Zealand from Top 5 places I want to retire to*
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Have you got a working Top 5 of places which don't have this? Because I'm having a hard time thinking of them, and I'd dearly love to know. :(
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*removes New Zealand from Top 5 places I want to retire to*
As long as you don't mind living on an unstable piece of rock in the middle of nowhere. Honestly, it could just slide into the sea tomorrow or the Taupo supervolcano go off again and pave the whole country under volcanic ash. Again.
Its not a place to plant long-term roots.
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Oh it's not that bad. And it's a good sight better than the yearly tornado season I live with now.
Actually I'd love to retire to a small farm. In NZ, or some other such place. Such as: http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0908/canterbury_plains_2.jpg [scoop.co.nz]
And NZ is at the top of the list because it's got all the climates I like and enjoy, and in such a small area, so can easily get to em. And it's got interesting critters.
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Oh it's not that bad. And it's a good sight better than the yearly tornado season I live with now.
Actually I'd love to retire to a small farm. In NZ, or some other such place. Such as: http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0908/canterbury_plains_2.jpg [scoop.co.nz]
And NZ is at the top of the list because it's got all the climates I like and enjoy, and in such a small area, so can easily get to em. And it's got interesting critters.
Tornado season isn't going to wipe out almost all life and make the place uninhabitable for decades, perhaps centuries.
Christchurch is still in deep shit and that wasn't even a very big quake.
Re:So much for retiring there (Score:5, Interesting)
He just values his privacy and liberty, quaint old concepts that had to be sacrificed for safety in our safer-than-ever world, I know.
NZ is still in my top 5 list of desirable locations but it's been accelerating down for a while now.
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As a kiwi, this does sadden me a bit. See my post above, I still think it is one of the most truely democratic and free countries in the world - this is what makes the passing of this bill even more shocking to me.
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The scary thing is that the passing of this bill may see people favour the opposition, and they have a far worse record of infringing our liberties (and yes, I am a New Zealander). The current bunch are still by far the lesser of two evils.
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that a pretty pathetic troll attempt
It makes you wonder? (Score:5, Interesting)
Who does all this spying serve? Really. Who?
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People that avoid this fate: Bali bombing remembered 10 years on [abc.net.au]
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To excerpt from a post at http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4113917&cid=44632619 [slashdot.org] I suggest it serves these people:
Child prostitution [wikipedia.org] -SOMEONE at Dyncorp and the US government for employing them to do so.
Blackmail [wikipedia.org] -SOMEONE at Pfizer.
Smuggling [wikipedia.org] -SOMEONE at Chevron.
Espionage [wikipedia.org] Hilary Clinton and the State department.
Perjury [usnews.com] - James Clapper. Illegal warrantless espionage against US citizens on US soil. And no, FISA is not looking over their shoulder [washingtonpost.com].
More generally? The kind who think, "Screw the world, got mine, getting more." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/business/a-shuffle-of-aluminum-but-to-banks-pure-gold.html [nytimes.com]
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My money is on the money
It's money all the way down.
Let's just cut to the chase... (Score:3)
Can we just pass a law already that everybody has to walk around naked except for an always-on camera that sends its feed directly to government servers?
Well, not "everybody," of course. That would be ridiculous. Our wise government officials should be exempt from this law as their privacy is critical for national security.
Astonishing (Score:2)
I didn't know all of those sheep [stats.govt.nz] were so interesting that they warranted expanded surveillance.
It figures (Score:1)
New Zealand. Land of SHEEP.
Look, I know it's not fair; we haven't had time to see what the backlash might be yet; and my own country is controlled by the same kind of vile fascist animals and is not in open revolt. But you didn't expect me to miss the obvious opening did you?
Stop Pretending to be Subjects! (Score:2)
Modern Democratic Process (Score:2)
I'm Canadian, but I speak on behalf of those who live in any representative democratic political system.
This is just about enough. It's one thing to have a representative democratic form of government, but laws should not be passed that the majority do not want - and it shouldn't require a monumental effort to overturn. Apathy is too easily leveraged by those with less than honourable intentions.
Representative democracies were instituted for a number of fundamental and practical reasons, including the assum
Just another reason to.. (Score:1)
get out of New Zealand and never look back, glad I did.
Cost of living is stupid, most jobs are underpaid, the public health system is a joke, the goverment has gone on a 'compliance' crusade adding even more layers of inefficiency to make sure it's citizens stay 'safe' and can keep feeding the governments ever increasing appetite for tax dollars. 15% sales tax on **everything** anyone? $9/gallon gasoline? Over inflated house prices around 5 to 7 times the average income? High interest rates? You're welcome
Best country on earth (Score:2)
Isn't New Zealand still #1 as they've been for decades? or in the top 2 spot anyhow.
5-7 times the average income for a house? that isn't so bad.
$46k in the USA x 5 = $230k
Electric cars are long overdue... largely delayed due to the cheapo gas in the USA - the largest consumer of cars. 15% sales tax is a bit much... must discourage over consumption... but shifting it to income wouldn't be that popular either... it would be less regressive. Here I was thinking NZ was some left wing Utopia or something; gues
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Because Australia isn't afraid to dig wealth out of the ground. In New Zealand we have political parties who want higher wages and increased employment but don't want us to take advantage of our natural resources. While this short-sightedness continues people will flee to Australia.
short-sightedness? (Score:2)
That has to be the 1st time I've heard somebody claim that it is short-sighted to NOT build an economy around natural resource extraction!
Ruin a large area of land permanently just to employ some people for a few generations? Sure there are reasonable levels... except that the current generation is always BIASED for themselves and their children; making it difficult for them to ever be reasonable in the eyes of history. Plus, usually a few people get mega rich from the people's resources. Yeah, I'm dissi