Islamist Hackers Shut Down Egyptology Research Journal 564
An anonymous reader writes "Radical Islamist hackers have been harassing Egyptologist Kate Phizackerley's online journal Egyptological and her blog KV64. Phizackerley and her team finally got tired of it and shut their online work down. As blogger Roger Pearse says, 'A bunch of violent scumbags... who never have contributed in any way to the web, have successfully interfered with the scientific effort of the entire human race... Next year there will be more.' How do we route around damage like this?"
Route around damage (Score:5, Funny)
No, you route the damage to the attacker. A predator drone should do nicely.
Re:Route around damage (Score:5, Funny)
No such thing. The closest thing to invulnerable is The Tick [wikipedia.org], and even he's only nigh invulnerable.
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Do you have the same response when the hackers' cause is fighting against government corruption?
It's the same difference as with shooting an violent assailant with a gun and shooting a frail granny with a gun. The gun part, as it were, isn't the part that make the difference.
The US may be able to help (Score:5, Funny)
Doing Real Original, Newsworthy and Engaging Science.
You start by acknowledging Islam as a threat (Score:5, Insightful)
We all want to be tolerant and politically correct, but the fact is that there is only one major religion left whose *mainstream* ideology is not only completely intolerant of other religions, but willing to use the violence and the power of the state against any opposing views. There may still be nutball factions in other religions, but only one religion still has the nutballs in the mainstream and ready to kill and oppress for their religion.
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[...] but only one religion still has the nutballs in the mainstream and ready to kill and oppress for their religion.
Hmmm... Santorum and Romney are 'nutballs' and pretty mainstream. And there are still a lot of oppression because of religious beliefs in a state that was supposed to be secular. The killings are more about the money, but the oppression is purely religious.
So what 'one' religion you are talking about?
I'm with Sam Harris, no religion is tolerable.
Re:You start by acknowledging Islam as a threat (Score:5, Insightful)
I have almost no desire to be politically correct. But, you're full of shit.
Let's look at the numbers. There are about a billion Muslims. You seem to claim that mainstream Muslims go around killing people who disagree with their religion. Okay, so we'll dismiss the fringes of our mainstream bell curve, and say that there are half a billion mainstream Muslims. Roughly 1/4 of those are probably military aged males. 1/4 of half a billion would be something like 125 million.
Mainstream, you say. Average Muslims. If 125 million Muslims have killed a nonbeliever in the past decade, or even the past two or three decades, it's been a well kept secret.
How about we just accept the fact that those rat bastards are just as violent as we are, and leave it at that? I mean - we ARE a violent bunch. Why should it be so shocking that they are as violent as we are? Violence doesn't bother us in our entertainment. It doesn't bother us that a dozen or more people are murdered in each of our larger cities, each and every night. We barely flinch when we hear of yet another child abuse down the road.
Are we really that horrified that another people can be as violent as we are?
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You seem to claim that mainstream Muslims go around killing people who disagree with their religion.
They don't, but by the same token, they don't as much as raise their voice against it, because that would be un-Islamic. In a way, they silently condone it.
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Do you submit to an authoritative text which commands you to kill anyone who disagrees with it or laughs at it?
Everyone who follows one of the abrahamic religions does that [answers.com].
Re:You start by acknowledging Islam as a threat (Score:4, Informative)
Being "politically correct" is against Free Speech. That's why the Islamists push the politically correct buttons of Westerners to neutralize opposition - they don't want to you speak freely and criticize their genocidal and supremacist ideas. As long as you accept political correctness you will be afraid to offend Muslims. Speaking the truth always offends Muslims because they don't want the Free World to discover the truth about their evil ideology.
Because of political correctness the Obama Administration has a censor list that bans the Pentagon and FBI from using words like "Islamist", "jihadi", "terrorist" etc. Stephen Coughlin has an excellent series discussing this is detail on Youtube. He shows how the US is winning all the fights on the battlefield but completely losing the "information battlespace" (a situation analagous to Vietnam, except that now the leftist elites in Obama's Administration oppose the war while the citizens can see the necessity of destroying all Islamists no matter what their brand-name is). Here's an example of an eye-opening Stephen Coughlin video (a briefing he has given the Pentagon):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhZe7eZK4dw [youtube.com]
Although this should be no surprise. The Obama Administration has continued the Bush Administration's policy of outreach to muslims, and now has Muslim Brotherhood affiliates in positions of influence. See: http://www.investigativeproject.org/3869/egyptian-magazine-muslim-brotherhood-infiltrates [investigativeproject.org]
and the ideologue Obama is informed but refuses to listen to warnings about the Brotherhood. The US Government is not acting in the strategic interest of the people!
http://www.investigativeproject.org/3877/opposition-leader-obama-administration-downplayed [investigativeproject.org]
Note that all Islamist groups have the same goals, they just believe in different means to achieve this goal. Therefore: Al Qaeda == Hamas == Hezbollah == Muslim Brotherhood == Salafis == Wahabbis == Boko Haram == Abu Sayyaf etc etc in ideological end-game goals. So when you hear Muslim Brotherhood you are correct in instantly translating that as "Al Qaeda" as they are ideologically end-goal equivalent.
As long you strive to be politically correct you will be against Free Speech. They are incompatible concepts. As long as the majority support political correctness (euphamistic and untruithful speech) over Free Speech (eg. telling the unvarnished truth) then the Islamist ideologues will win - and they are winning in the West (slowly changing the West to conform to their needs rather than the other way around) because those that are politically correct don't have the courage of their convictions to oppose Islamic supremacism.
Unlike political correctness, Free Speech is all about the rigths of people to say things we don't want to hear and we may find offensive. If people were only able to stay stuff we agree with we wouldn't need Free Speech laws anyway. The right to speak and offend others *is* the core of Free Speech. That's why political correctness is completely anti-Free Speech. If you support policical correctness (or worse, condemn those who are not politically correct) then you are an opponent of Free Speech.
Horsefeathers. (Score:3, Insightful)
Why would any God worth his salt want to be "worshipped"? Any God I worship is going to have to be worthy of worship. I have yet to find one of those in any religion in the world.
All religions are a threat. People may not like what I have to
We could start by ending the double standard. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps it would send a clearer message if we stopped celebrating some groups for hacking and DOS's websites of people, governments or companies we don't like?
After all, if it's ok for Anonymous to harass websites who don't conform to "our" cultural preferences, then I suppose it's ok for anyone to harass any website they don't agree with. . .
Re:We could start by ending the double standard. . (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:We could start by ending the double standard. . (Score:4, Insightful)
You know, of course, you're 100% wrong. Anonymous is whoever says they are Anonymous. That means that there are people who do what you say they do, and there are others in it for the lulz.
Anonymous can be a bunch of Islamic kids DDoSing some blog. You start putting Anonymous on a pedestal, and it is going to piss on you from the higher vantage point. Because it can.
Re:We could start by ending the double standard. . (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:We could start by ending the double standard. . (Score:5, Informative)
1) What you say is not true. Anonymous targets folks they disagree with.
2) One can define "actively messing with other people" however they want. A jihadist would use the exact same term to describe what they do.
2) Even if what you said were entirely true, what you are describing is "vigilantism". In the movies this is great. In the real world you end up with a might makes right society. You and the jihadist are in complete agreement that this is acceptable.
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Might does make right. Don't forget, the winners write the history books, and the losers don't even get to put their rationalizations for war into the footnotes. I'm aware of that, and the jihadists are also aware of that. Might makes right.
The question is, are we stronger than the jihadists? Is Islam stronger than the jihadists? You know, if the jihadists win, and get their way, it's not going to matter what you or I think, and it's not going to matter what the mainstream Muslim thinks either.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:We could start by ending the double standard. . (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, that's true that many people condemn Anonymous for shutting down websites, but my point is, there's enough people that hold them up as some sort of 'heroes', that as a society, we send a bit of a mixed message about what's appropriate, even if it *is* illegal.
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Fair point, about the punishments compared to other crimes. Perhaps you are even right about their actually being no double standard, but it has appeared to me that in the tech community, there is some amount of approval for some of the actions of Anonymous and similar groups.
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Slashdot just had a discussion on this exact issue: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/01/18/1846206/hacktivism-civil-disobedience-or-cyber-crime [slashdot.org]
Pretty Simple (Score:5, Insightful)
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Muslims are the least of our problems. Did you know the majority of complaints to the FCC are the result of one single Christian group trying to impose their standards of decency on the entire country?
Re:Pretty Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you see this group bombing the FCC, or taking hostages at TV stations and executing half of the employees? Do you see them attempting to assassinate actors in Hollywood?
You don't. Move on.
Re:Pretty Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
It's happened before. We already have had terroristic attacks by radical Christians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence [wikipedia.org]
Re:Pretty Simple (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Pretty Simple (Score:4, Insightful)
Can we stop pussy footing around Christians too? I'd like to stop them from legislating behavior.
Re:Pretty Simple (Score:5, Informative)
Religion is a personal choice.
The problem is the Koran explicitly says that, except for some very specific situations such as initial conversion into (never out of) Islam, it's not a personal choice, it's a social choice, so the community's decision on the matter is binding to all its members. What this means then, basically, is that requiring of a Muslim to adopt the (Christian, of all things) notion of religion as being a "personal-anything" (no matter the anything: for Islam, from lifestyle to politics, it is never personal), is actually asking him to give up Islam itself. Which is why Muslims tend to become upset when Western powers try to impose their individualist worldview on Islamic collectivist societies. It just doesn't mix well, no matter how much you try to soften the cultural blow.
Site has not been shutdown yet... (Score:2)
They were in negotiations with the hackers, and the negotiations have stalled, so the hackers have told them they intended to attack the site again.
By posting about it on Slashdot.
Technical solution (Score:4, Informative)
There is probably a legal solution too, after all, we do complain that this kind of moves are considered like high-level terrorist intrusions. I still find the punishments disproportionate, but they do exist, use the legal process.
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This makes me happy... (Score:4, Interesting)
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anti-social fuck-wits who think that their religious beliefs justify their behavior
thats the best possible outcome, but more likely it'll turn into our own homegrown teabillies vs the muslims battle.
I wish I could route around the local teabillies as damage...
Muslims want to destroy all non-Muslim artifacts (Score:4, Interesting)
Just as they have already destroyed those Buddhist statues, and many other such artifacts.
They even want to destroy the pyrimids in Egypt.
IMO: Muslims are even more anti-science than Christians.
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Re:Muslims want to destroy all non-Muslim artifact (Score:5, Informative)
Radical Muslims are anti-science, just as are radical Christians.
Islam inherently promotes scientific inquiry.
From an Islamic standpoint, science, the study of nature, is considered to be linked to the concept of Tawhid (the Oneness of God).
This link implies a sacred aspect to the pursuit of scientific knowledge by Muslims, as nature itself is viewed in the Qur'an as a compilation of signs pointing to the Divine.
During the Middle Age the House of Wisdom in Baghdad was a far more advanced center of science than anything in Europe. It's where al-Kwarizmi wrote the al-Kitab al-mukhtasar fi hisab al-jabr wa'l-muqabala. Hint: the word algebra is taken from al-jabr. And al-Kwarizmi became the word algorithm.
The first empiricists and theoretical physicists are regarded to be Muslims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Al-Haytham [wikipedia.org]
It was only when the sons of Genghis Khan rode into Baghdad that this golden age came to an end.
Re:Muslims want to destroy all non-Muslim artifact (Score:5, Insightful)
You are wrong. There was a Golden Age of Islamic science but it was shut down over 700 years ago because the questions started to get too uncomfortable for the Caliph in Bagdad. Now it is forbidden to question, Allah requires your unquestioning obedience. That is as anti-science as you can get. Therefore your post is incorrect, you are misinformed, and as a result you are spreading incorrect information. You might want to stop doing that.
Note that the current theological view of Muslims is that there *are no laws of nature and everything that happens in the will of Allah*. Hence, there is no gravity, only Allah causes things to fall by his will. Allah could just as easily cause something not to fall. Because they believe there are no natural laws Muslims believe it is more profitable to study the sunnah (Qur'an and hadiths) and avoid hellfire of the afterlife than diabolical books about science that the Westerners have. This follows the philosophy set by Al Ghazali: http://www.suhaibwebb.com/islam-studies/imam-al-ghazali-on-studying-science/ [suhaibwebb.com]
The reason Al-Ghazali opposed science and reason is precisely why we embrace it. He opposed it because it would lead people away from Allah. We like science because it allows people to develop reason and reject superstition and false constructs (eg. the fictions of Allah/God/Yaweh/Krishna etc for which there is *zero reputable scientific evidence*).
So, the current theology of Islam is completely anti-science. It wasn't always that way (when the Muslims were reading Greek and Roman texts) but is now.
Get some protection... (Score:2)
Cloudflare...
Do what you are good at (Score:2)
Security is hard to do for someone who isn't proficient in it. If she wants a blog that can't be hacked, she should either hire a professional or use one of the thousands of blogging services (that is assuming it was a real hack and not just a DoS, these Egyptologists don't seem to understand the difference between the two).
Of course (Score:2)
Ah well lets see how long before they start attacking /.
Evidence (Score:4, Interesting)
Is there any evidence whatsoever that it was "Islamist Hackers" that shut down the journal? What happened to the "negotiations with the hacker"?
Why was the blog hosted by Blogger shut down? Surely it wasn't being hacked was it?
Something seems out of place...
Why did the West turn from religious extremism? (Score:5, Insightful)
At one point in history, Western culture was as religiously zealous as many Islamists are today -- the Inquisition, wars, Salem witch trials, etc.
But at some point the larger culture and its leaders turned away from this kind of mindset. Sure, we still have money & publicity seeking zealots on TV and a few anti-abortion protesters were inclined toward violence, but overall the West hasn't seen the level of religious extremism that grips the Islamic world today.
Even Islamic countries with established governments and no ongoing military conflict have laws that would make the Inquisition leaders blush -- amputations, beheadings, really severe laws against expression which could even remotely be considered blasphemous. And not just in the Middle East, either.
So, despite counter-factual examples in the West and despite the benefits of science, Islamic culture remains highly punitive and opposed to change, yet the West changed when information wasn't as easily available and science wasn't nearly as advanced. Why?
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Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Insightful)
Reading the Koran to understand Islam is like reading the Bible to understand Christianity. It doesn't work.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Insightful)
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The exact same can be said for any so-called Christian who claims that we (the world) should be bound by their book.
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Yeah, except mainstream Christians stopped killing people who disagreed with them hundreds of years ago. Mainstream Islam still does.
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Yeah, except mainstream Christians stopped killing people who disagreed with them hundreds of years ago. Mainstream Islam still does.
[citation needed]
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:4, Informative)
apostasy is a death sentence in a number of islamic countries. among them
pakistan
saudi arabia
egypt
Iran
being that its government policy and the state religion is islam it can be surmised that the laws reflect the mainstream ME version(s) of islam.
apostasy=disagreeing with islam
note:the death sentence is not always carried out but generally some form of severe punishment is
2nd note:this is not reflective of westernized muslims is europe & north america
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Informative)
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I find it interesting that all the posts that point out the simple fact that Islam is a dangerous, disgusting religion are modded negative. Are the Islamist astroturfers bringing out the votes? How democratic!
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:4, Informative)
There is no such thing as "Moderate" Islam
Sure there is - I live in Canada and have good friends who are Ismali Shia Muslims. Generally, most Ismalis you might meet are well educated doctors, dentists, lawyers, engineers. Their women are sexually liberated, educated, respected and aren't wrapped in bedsheets from head to toe. Their leader, the Aga Khan, publicly works for secular pluralism and women's rights.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:4, Insightful)
unusual offshoots of the major religions.
It's hardly an 'unusual offshoot.' Ismailism is the second largest branch of Shia Islam.
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Go study Sufism then. If you think Islam is so terrible you need to read the Bible carefully.
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Pfft. Some believer in magic is telling us all to educate ourselves.
Listen. The burden is on you. It's your religion. You want to improve your religion's image? Then convince other members of the Mohammed cult not to blow people up or cut off infidels heads or to stone people to death.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Insightful)
You are confusing a theological problem with a sociological one.
The issue that concerns you as a non muslim is "Can or should I tar all Muslims with the same brush?"
No you shouldn't, and your actions will actually worsen relations between different groups
FYI I am not a crypto theist of any description, but I can tell when someone is simply being prejudiced
Maybe you need an example closer to your own home:
Are all Christians the same as Westboro Baptist? Is a Quaker or a Unitarian the same as a Fundamentalist Evangelical who uses biblical quotations to argue against homosexuality and "miscegenation"?
Of course they are not, and it would be useful if those who thought they were the same made some effort.
The major problem with understanding Islam for Americans is that your media simply does not allow for the existence of anything extremist fundamentalists.
Imagine a world where you were only told about the most lunatic fringe christians..
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I think you have made the mistake of confusing this world for an ideal one.
I don't claim this as "fair", but humans will judge others based on the group labels they wear. Non-Muslims will not take the time to learn someone's stance on which Caliphs count for which purposes.
A disturbingly large number of people
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:4, Interesting)
We need people like that medicated or even committed, not protected because of the particular brand of vitriol they spew.
Why stop with the religious? There are plenty of other belief systems that seem kooky or outright insane to many of our compatriots. I for one would start with Marxism and Objectivism, but even more mainstream views get plenty of vitriol - I'm pretty sure there's a bumper sticker that says "Liberalism is a mental disorder". Considering all of the gridlock and bad policy that results from having such a diverse range of views, our species clearly needs to medicate or commit anyone whose views do not mesh well with the "majority" viewpoint, however that's defined.
I think I'll stick to our current anarchic system, thank you. A state that declares the overtly religious to be mentally ill and deprives them of basic civil rights can do the same to me or anyone else who gets in the way. Not unlike most Islamist regimes, ironically.
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If they can throw Phelps in jail for speech, they can throw you in jail for speech. Criminalizing Phelps is a complete non-starter in any free country.
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Are all Christians the same as Westboro Baptist? Is a Quaker or a Unitarian the same as a Fundamentalist Evangelical who uses biblical quotations to argue against homosexuality and "miscegenation"?
Even though Westboro Baptist pricks spew more shit out of their mouths with every breath then comes out of my ass in an entire month, at least they aren't taking hostages, blowing people up or slowly sawing off heads then posting the video online.
Every religion has had it's dark ages. Christianity has evolved beyond those days but there is a rather large section of Islam that remains in the dark ages. They are primarily the brainwashed ones.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:4, Insightful)
Are all Christians the same as Westboro Baptist?
No, but who is actually the greatest danger to a secular society?
When a judge wants to post the 10 commandments in a coutroom, who is behind that? Mainstream christians or the WBC?
When a principal wants to keep a homosexual student from attending prom, who is behind that? Mainstream christians or the WBC?
When the leaders of the Catholic Church in this country seek to withhold birth control from secular employees, who is behind that? Mainstream christians or the WBC?
When I can't buy alcohol on Sunday before noon, who is behind that? Mainstream christians or the WBC?
When teenage mothers go on the dole because they weren't educated about birth control, who is behind that? Mainstream christians or the WBC?
The WBC is repugnant, but it's a side show. They have no power. The real danger to secular people in the US comes from "moderate" christians.
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When we see Muslim outrage over Muslim crimes, then we'll see how not to use too broad a brush with which to paint Muslims. Christian groups regularly denounce unChristian behavior among other Christian groups. Where does that occur in Islam? It doesn't for two reasons, (1) Muslims don't find Islamic practice, no matter how barbaric, all that questionable, (2) the Muslims who do object are generally not around too long before nutjobs come for them.
Muslims do not believe Islam is in need of reformation. Othe
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:4, Informative)
Christian groups regularly denounce unChristian behavior among other Christian groups. Where does that occur in Islam?
Here [wikipedia.org].
It doesn't for two reasons
You do realize that you live in a complete fantasy world, right?
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:4, Insightful)
Are all Christians the same as Westboro Baptist?
Most Christian organizations are opposed to gay rights. The difference is that the lobbyists from the Catholic Church have a lot more influence than WBC's signs.
So I'd say "No, they're not the same: Westboro Baptist Church is a bunch of amateurs."
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As the Turkish Prime Minister famously said in 2007, "there are moderate Muslims, there is only on Islam. Islam is Islam.". Just because the majority of Muslims don't practice their beliefs doesn't make the *core doctrine* of Islam any less evil. Stop apologizing for evil. Stop defending it. Go and read the Qur'an and hadiths yourself and you will see that they contain more hate speech than Mein Kampf does.
As Sam Harris says, the problem with Islamic Fundamentalists is the Fundamentals of Islam. So get
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Your post is just plain bigoted.
His post is reality based unlike yours.
but I can still see religious organizations doing a lot of good things for a lot of people. For instance, Matthew 25 Ministries. Check out the free food banks in your area. I bet most of them are run by churches.
And how many of those poor people are poor due to Christianity's barbaric policies on birth control and abortion?
How much of the AIDS epidemic in Africa is due to the Catholic Church's murderous attitude and bald-faced lies ab
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Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Insightful)
Pfft. Some believer in magic is telling us all to educate ourselves.
Listen. The burden is on you. It's your religion. You want to improve your religion's image?
No, it's not my job to separate someone else's point of view from my point of view because you are too ignorant to distinguish the two. I do not have the burden to explain my point of view to you just to not be insulted by you.
Religion is just one form of freedom of speech. Take another example that would be closer to your heart.
Say you are a gamer. Someone says "You have to stop gaming! All these violent games cause school massacres.". Lets assume that justification were true, but you only play minesweeper. Is it your job to explain and defend yourself? No, the burden is on ignorant people to inform themselves, and refrain from general statements.
If you outlaw religion, you outlaw free speech. There are many forms of religion, not all are simplistic, anti-science and magical like your world-view would like them.
Finally, Muslims do have that dialogue with radicals, and are shaking their head about the killings. This perspective is just never shown on Western TV and newspapers, contributing to a outside view of "they all are the same".
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Insightful)
I read it. You're absolutely right, violence, sexism, war, intolerance.... Oh wait, that was the Bible I was reading. Nevermind.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Insightful)
The Koran is just a few new chapters added to the Old Testament, when you get down to it. Any Muslim will readily acknowledge that his religion is an offshoot of Judaism and Christianity. The major difference is, the Muslims have their warrior prophet, whereas the Christians have their turn-the-other-cheek saviour. The Jews are still waiting for their messiah - it's anyone's guess what happens when their arrives.
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The Koran is more internally consistent, having a single author and single editor, and is read in its original language. The Bible tends to be all over the place. Different authors, different translations. It's a mess.
But with both texts, different readings are still possible, if you have your own agenda.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Informative)
Anytime someone tries to understand Islam by 'reading the Koran', you can pretty much call them an idiot.
I'm Muslim by background, albeit a very secular one, but I come from a pretty strong religious background.
The core to Islamic practice is not the Koran, but the Hadith. That is the words and actions of the prophet Mohamed.
The Koran is actually pretty vague on most things and without the context of the Hadith can be read to mean pretty much anything. Heck, you won't even find the 5 daily prayers Muslims do in the Koran. Nor will you find beards. Nor will you find stoning...
The core to Islamic belief is the Koran.
The core to Islamic practice is the Hadith.
Disclaimer, there a group of Koran-only Muslims who try to take out the Hadith and only focus on the Koran, but they're a miniscule minority and IMHO the koran cannot be understood without the hadith... but if it helps progress Islam I support their efforts even if I think it intellectually dishonest.
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Firstly, stop assuming that everyone who is against Islam is supportive of Christianity. Secondly, it's pathetic that among nerds and supposed intellectuals a quip about the Bible can successfully derail a discussion about Islam, when we know for certain that a quip about the Quran rightfully could NOT do the same to a discussion about Christianity.
Lastly, the fact that Muslims are the victims du jour in the geopolitical world does not mean Islam itself should be put upon a pedestal or given special treatme
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How come you are telling me to read qur'an? Me, being an educated Atheist convert to Islam, shouldn't I know at least a little bit about my own religion?
Yes, I've read the qur'an, more than once, but more importantly, I also read commentaries of it, explaining the context. Which is, as any sane person should know, essential to understand the meaning.
Most of what I've read is that Islam encourages compassion, learning and debating in the best way. I could cite a lot of passages, and I mean a lot, in case you
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Interesting)
The only "compassionate" thing about Islam is that in the all-out war against infidels you are allowed to merely lie, cheat and use "stratagems" when you have no chances of a direct victory by force (Taqiyya), and that, if strategy demands so, you may enter a temporary truce with "people of the book" but must be prepared to stab them in the back and resume the all-out war the moment "Allah giveth command" (2:109). Yes, the very line that says "forgive and be indulgent" continues with "until".
Unlike Bible, the Koran contains very few contradictions, and it's message is clear. And I really dislike what it says.
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What was it about the other religions that made you avoid/reject them, and what was it about Islam that convinced you?
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That's a very common tactic used by Muslims (and quite a few Christians and Jews, for that matter) to explain away the despicable things in their holy books. It's a very good tactic to cloud the issue, confuse critics, and avoid dealing with the real problem which is the fundamentally disgusting nature of Islam (and Christianity and Judaism... but we're talking about Islam here for now.)
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In Islam we don't listen to any lunatic proclaiming stuff. There are sciences with defined methodologies, and there are scientists or scholars who debate religious issues, which is much like peer-reviewing in modern science.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, I would argue that it's a diabolically inhuman strategy to keep the sheep in line, completely at odds with any shred of morality, and so repugnant that any philosophy that espouses it deserves to be erased from history.
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He should be given time and help to resolve his doubts about Islam, but if he still refuses, he needs to be put to death. Although this is something that rarely happens, if at all. I have yet to see a real apostate who isn't a complete idiot or a liar.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:4, Insightful)
if he still refuses, he needs to be put to death.
Yeah, see, if you wanted to defend Islam on this thread, you could start by not making psychopathic statements like this. People like you have no business in a modern, liberal society, and it's silly to expect everyone else to respect your beliefs (or your person, for that matter) when you actively advocate murder in their name.
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Fuck, that's not religion, that's just humanity. You get the same shit out of Hollywood. Religion is just something people happen to believe in. You really think science will solve war, intolerance, and whatever? You haven't been paying attention to history.
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not all Shi'ites are frothing at the mouth lunatics.
Just like not all Sunnis are takfuri, or even worse, wahabis.
--the last sane American left, it feels sometimes.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Insightful)
Extremists are just fundamentalists. And when it's the fundamentals are repulsive it's time to shut the whole thing down. That goes for any religion.
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Educate yourself people.
I did. That's why I'm an atheist.
The Money Religion (Score:2, Insightful)
People are fanatic about it, and kill every day for it.
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Incorrect. What an Islamic state requires is that non-Muslims simply abide by the laws. This is the same in any modern type of government.
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No equivalence with Israel, there are mosques there. In fact, there's a mosque sitting on Judaism's most holy site. There is no equivalence with Vatican City, since it's basically one big church compound, not a large city like Mecca (over 2,500 times the size of Vatican City). The Al-Masjid al-áaram is almost the size of Vatican City, so you're talking the equivalent of putting a church within the Mosque's compound.
Can a Muslim enter Vatican City? Of course. Can he proselytize others to his religion wh
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Insightful)
Like any religion, the holy book says exactly what the believer wishes it said. And if it says something different, it's an allegory meaning what the believer wishes it said.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Insightful)
That must be why there are so many churches in Saudi Arabia, or why non-Muslims are so welcome in Mecca--because they're so tolerant.
Re:Heh... Radical...Islamists...redundant... (Score:5, Interesting)
The Qur'an and the history of Islam generally expresses great tolerance towards other religions. People of the Book
Ie, they are allowed a brief despite during the forced conversion, being merely considered a lower class of beings and forced to pay tribute for being allowed to be left alive -- then they need to be put to sword and fire once Allah gives a command to continue extermination (unless they convert to Islam). Yes, quite a stellar example of "great tolerance".
As someone who's not a "person of the Book", and thus has to be slain immediately, especially if I dare to express my views, I think I'll pass praising such a great religion of peace.
Re:Typical . . . . (Score:5, Insightful)
This is typical behavior for the Islamic fundamentalist who are predominantly uneducated.
As opposed to more educated Muslims that have the skill to pilot airplanes into tall buildings.
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Close and remove the mosques, deport any thecrate who states anything countary to our laws. Simply get aggressive.
Speaking as a non-religious US citizen, I'd prefer to deport you first.
We would not tolerate priests or the pope stating in a thecratic context what is said by these islamics.
We do tolerate this, all the time. You can find Christians in the US who are every bit as nutty and prone to violent revenge fantasies as the Islamists - try googling "Christian reconstructionists". They rarely carry out