Canada Prepares For Crackdown On BitTorrent Movie Pirates 292
New submitter dreamstateseven tips this Postmedia News report:
"A forensic software company has collected files on a million Canadians who it says have downloaded pirated content. The company, which works for the motion picture and recording industries, says a recent court decision forcing Internet providers to release subscriber names and details is only the first step in a bid to crack down on illegal downloads. 'The door is closing. People should think twice about downloading content they know isn't proper,' said Barry Logan, managing director of Canipre, the Montreal-based forensic software company."
Suck my pirate dick (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Suck my pirate dick (Score:4, Interesting)
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The taxes appear to only apply to physical media, however, and only to music. So it's legal to copy music onto a blank CD or cassette for personal use, but not to copy in other circumstances. The Copyright Board was planning to extend the tax to iPods, which would make it legal to copy for personal use onto them as well, but that was overturned [canada.com].
No, not just physical media. (Score:3, Informative)
The taxes appear to only apply to physical media, however, and only to music. So it's legal to copy music onto a blank CD or cassette for personal use, but not to copy in other circumstances. The Copyright Board was planning to extend the tax to iPods, which would make it legal to copy for personal use onto them as well, but that was overturned [canada.com].
Yes, the taxes are on physical media, but they cover the distribution and use of all those bits and bytes. It implicitly covers computers as the medium where the music is stored prior to being transferred to a disc. Since we're looking at "reasonable doubt" territory, can a prosecutor prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the music was never intended to go onto CDs?
And while it technically does apply only to mp3s, the RCMP has stated that they're not actively pursuing individual infringement [arstechnica.com] - and they're
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Our Supreme court ruled that P2P and other user to user file sharing services of copyright material is legal.
This is a non-story.
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Citation please? Serious question though as I don't recall that.
Re:Suck my pirate dick (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6593/125/ - General copying for personal use at schools etc.
http://www.michaelgeist.ca/resc/html_bkup/june62005.html - Giving up the identities of individual file sharers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMG_Canada_Inc._v._John_Doe - File Sharing Specifically, the first such court case that reached that level of the courts and struck down the notion that file sharing is actively trying to rip off and profit from sharing files on a computer, whether copyrighted or not.
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No, they ruled that *downloading* material is legal. Uploading is still illegal.
Re:Suck my pirate dick (Score:5, Informative)
Advertising copyrighted material for copying is illegal, which is why posting copyrighted music for download on a website it illegal as your intentionally advertising it for download (same with TPB/Demonoid etc which is why Demonoid wen't to the Ukraine in the end). You are not intentionally advertising the files on a P2P shared folder, unless someone else looks for it so it's "legal".
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And you've been an RIAA lawyer how long?
They owe me at this point (Score:4, Informative)
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Re:Suck my pirate dick (Score:5, Informative)
You are mistaken.
The levy that you pay on blank media in Canada exists to compensate Canadian artists for private copying. It might alleviate the impact of piracy as side effect, but that is not the purpose of the levy.
Under C-11, however, which is now evidently law in Canada, practically all private copying of newer media forms is illegal, since for many newer media forms, copying can necessitate bypassing some forms of copy protection, which under C-11 is illegal, without exceptions for private copying (the law is even explicitly says so, in fact). Therefore, the levy applies to an activity that Canadians cannot even generally lawfully participate in, as an ever increasing amount of content is published on digital media.
This makes the levy illegal, for all practical intents and purposes. The Conservative Party of Canada has tried scrap the levy before, before they had a majority government, but they have not brought the issue up since the last Federal election.
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Re:Suck my pirate dick (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, that is the disgustingly awful part about C-11, but you missed the upside:
The goverment eventually arrived a trade-off that most Canadians would make: a tougher provision to target sites that facilitate infringement (the law already allows rights holders to do this) in return for a full cap on liability for non-commercial infringement. This applies not only to individuals (likely bringing to an end the prospect of file sharing lawsuits in Canada) but to any non-commercial entity including educational institutions and libraries (who may adopt more aggressive interpretations of the law with less risk of liability).
Emphasis mine, see http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6544/125/ [michaelgeist.ca]
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A cap of $5000 is not going to discourage them from phoning you up and pushing you into a quick settlement.
Re:Suck my pirate dick (Score:4, Informative)
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There are likely many laws on the books that, for some interpretation or another, contradict each other. Could you point out where in the Charter such laws are forbidden?
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except that Canipre's data won't hold up anywhere, so acting like any single ruling is going to impact everything means that yes, court wont' even be a concern.
Canipre's speaking of imagination if they think they can go after pirates without excessive retaliation.
A bit of advice for our friends to the North (Score:5, Insightful)
No matter how big you get, how healthy your economy, how great your health care and how happy your people, you will never ever be free of your servitude to multinational corporations.
If you get that through your thick bohunk skulls you'll save yourself a lot of grief later. The USA circa 1980-2012 wants you to know that the more you resist, the more it will hurt.
Your borders, your sovereignty, don't mean shit.
And for the people of Canada, you can congratulate yourselves all you want for creating a wonderful progressive paradise, but when the guys with big money say "Jump" your politicians are still going to get on their knees and start sucking. Or something.
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Indeed, this Canadian just prepared for the crackdown by setting up a shiny brand new vpn to the Netherlands and or Sweden.
Lucky for them bittorrent is uploading (Score:3)
Just as in the US, in Canada there's no such thing as "illegal downloading." Guess it's lucky for the copyright cartels that the most popular way to download a movie is with bittorrent which, conveniently-enough, involves uploading (making available).
In general, though, I wish the media would stop parroting the general idea that it's illegal to download copyrighted materials. It's no more illegal than bringing home a bootleg CD bought on the streets of Karachi.
Re:Lucky for them bittorrent is uploading (Score:4, Funny)
It's no more illegal than bringing home a bootleg CD bought on the streets of Karachi.
A crime punishable by 30 years in the electric chair under new copyright legislation.
Re:Lucky for them bittorrent is uploading (Score:5, Funny)
It's no more illegal than bringing home a bootleg CD bought on the streets of Karachi.
A crime punishable by 30 years in the electric chair under new copyright legislation.
Not to mention, they stick your heirs with the electric bill.
Re:Lucky for them bittorrent is uploading (Score:4, Funny)
Not to mention, they stick your heirs with the electric bill.
That assumes there's anything left I can put in my will. "To my beloved, one cracker, dry, slightly used. To my three children, whom I put up for adoption after being convicted, 12 scratch-off lottery tickets, pre-scratched, not winning. And to the recording industry, I bequeath my massive 3,000 ton collection of pig poop, collected over many years because it was the only thing that the bankrupcy judge let me keep, thinking it had now value... which is currently being sprayed on everything in the parking lot and the entrances and emergency escapes of the building you are reading this in. Lovingly yours, Me. P.S. You left your windows down."
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It should also be noted that it is possible to download-only (be a leach). I should hope that when they obtain their records of "illegal downloaders" that they ensure that said downloaders are also providing, otherwise they are wasting a lot of people's times.
Sounds like you are angry because no one seeds the torrents you want.
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I'm sure that's been successfully argued in court before but it doesn't matter because nobody takes those laws seriously.
The efforts of the copyright mafia to extract rent from the act of using a computer only serves to push people towards circumvention technology and degrade the respect the average person has for the law in general.
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Canadians pay fees on blank media which goes straight to media producers.
Downloading has already been paid for.
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... goes to content producers.
Uploading is a different matter.
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Somewhere there should be a burden to prove one didn't have license. Not just the act of gathering the bits (which the media seems to miss). No pun intended.
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OK, wise guy. You just made the list.
What, are you some kind of troublemaker or something?
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You telling your computer to fetch the data you have no license to and make a copy of it (in memory or on permanent storage) is a copyright violation. Like it or not.
Sorry, but I don't recognize copyright of any form.
Period.
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But since you don't get to set the rules, it doesn't matter if you recognize it or not. You don't have to like reality, but you might want to acknowledge it.
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Who says I don't have a license?
So what you're saying is that the act of downloading is itself criminal? And that anything downloaded should be assumed to be a violation?
This law seems to take an extra step and just assume that any files that have come across your network connection are illegal downloads except for the ones that were downloaded from approved
Re:Lucky for them bittorrent is uploading (Score:5, Informative)
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They make distinction between a buffer and long-term storage. Unfortunately this whole bullshit exists in the first place where we even need to fathom the idea that digital piracy is illegal, it's beyond me and all my Canadian counterparts how this could have passed. In no way, shape, or form will the passing of the C-11 bill change my tendency to pirate and I believe this is a common theme among Canadians.
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Brilliant (Score:4, Insightful)
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No, the only people affected by this are the large-scale kim dotcom style companies that make millions off copyright infringement, and there are already a variety of laws in place that can be used to prosecute them.
Wow. You guys arer really trying hard.
Maybe try substituting "kim dotcom style" with "youtube style" next time you post, eh?
Re:No, the CRIA won't sue. (Score:5, Insightful)
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People should think twice... (Score:3)
People should think twice about downloading content they know isn't proper
If the content is improper for viewing when pirated, how can one imagine obtaining it from a legit source would make it proper?
(in other words: what incentive do I have to move my ass in a movie theater chair or buy it on disk?)
Re:People should think twice... (Score:5, Interesting)
(in other words: what incentive do I have to move my ass in a movie theater chair or buy it on disk?)
Large civil fines ensure you'll always be bankrupt. Anything over $10,000 can't be discharged in the US; Not sure about Canada, but I suspect a similar limitation. Any significant assets you own will be seized. You won't be able to own a car worth more than a few grand, you'll never own a house; You'll be renting forever. Your wages will be garnished to ensure you are never able to acquire anything of value, or pay for your own health insurance (thank god you live in canada!). You will never receive another tax refund. Certain career choices will be unavailable to you, including anything in the government that requires a security clearance, work in the finance industry, or anything involving the handling of money or "crimes of trust." You may be denied a passport or visa, and will likely be unable to immigrate to any other country due to your debt (believe it or not, your credit report does matter when it comes to naturalization, just like any trouble with the law, even civil law). You will be summoned to court on a very regular basis to detail your financial situation to your debtors (the entertainment companies), and should you fail to show for any reason including being in a coma in a hospital, a bench warrant will be issued for your arrest. You will stay in jail for weeks to months until a hearing can be rescheduled. You will likely lose your job many times over the course of your life, and custody of your kids (if you have any).
So there's your incentive. Now, that said, it wouldn't be a fair analysis without telling you what your odds of being caught, prosecuted, and a judgement placed against you are. File sharing is one of the most popular and widespread online activities there is, and the legal system can only process so many cases per month. It will take many years to decades of this kind of enforcement activity before your lifetime risk of being hauled into court leave the single digit percentages.
As for me: I don't negotiate with terrorists; And terror is the weapon of choice for these people. Whether you do it with a bomb or a pen isn't relevant. They could make the penalty 30 years in the electric chair and it wouldn't change my behavior. But I'm not a normal person... normal people cave like a house of cards. It's your choice... but mine is to download, share, and annoy the hell out of them.
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" Your wages will be garnished to ensure you are never able to acquire anything of value, or pay for your own health insurance (thank god you live in canada!)."
There's no garnishment for civil judgments in many states (most of the commonwealths) in the US.
Re:People should think twice... (Score:5, Insightful)
(in other words: what incentive do I have to move my ass in a movie theater chair or buy it on disk?)
Large civil fines ensure you'll always be bankrupt. Anything over $10,000 can't be discharged in the US; Not sure about Canada, but I suspect a similar limitation. Any significant assets you own will be seized. You won't be able to own a car worth more than a few grand, you'll never own a house; You'll be renting forever. Your wages will be garnished to ensure you are never able to acquire anything of value, or pay for your own health insurance (thank god you live in canada!). You will never receive another tax refund. Certain career choices will be unavailable to you, including anything in the government that requires a security clearance, work in the finance industry, or anything involving the handling of money or "crimes of trust." You may be denied a passport or visa, and will likely be unable to immigrate to any other country due to your debt (believe it or not, your credit report does matter when it comes to naturalization, just like any trouble with the law, even civil law). You will be summoned to court on a very regular basis to detail your financial situation to your debtors (the entertainment companies), and should you fail to show for any reason including being in a coma in a hospital, a bench warrant will be issued for your arrest. You will stay in jail for weeks to months until a hearing can be rescheduled. You will likely lose your job many times over the course of your life, and custody of your kids (if you have any).
So there's your incentive.
No, those are disincentives. Since I've done nothing wrong, however you can't just wait to punish me, I'll tell you what I do: completely ignore your merchandise and never do any business with you.
Think twice: a significant number of others may start thinking like me.
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Think twice: a significant number of others may start thinking like me.
I weep for the future.
Re:People should think twice... (Score:5, Insightful)
TFA says that the statutory limit for damages for non-commercial infringement is $5000, and that they're going to go after habitual downloaders. $5000 is less than the limit for small claims court, meaning that if you decide to challenge it, they will have to take it to small claims court where "expert witnesses" won't be allowed. Just their lawyer, your lawyer, and about 15 minutes a side to make your case because there's 30 other cases on the docket that day. (yes, I have been in a Canadian small claims court).
There's well over $5000 worth of DVD's in my collection. Physical media, most of which was bought at full retail price (and in some cases, well over retail price because it was a "special edition" box set). If those idiots decide to try to sue me because I downloaded a copy of True Lies (disc was scratched and I couldn't rip it when I was digitizing my physical copy), I'll be quite amused to see what the courts say about it. The reason there's nothing new in the collection isn't that I'm downloading movies, it's because the movies that they're making these days are crap.
Re:People should think twice... (Score:4, Informative)
TFA says that the statutory limit for damages for non-commercial infringement is $5000
Per infringement. How many different people did you upload that bittorrent to? 1,700? Um... uh oh.
Wrong. It's $5000 for all infringement up to the point the lawsuit is filed. At the very least, there won't be any Canadian Joel Tenenbaums. It will be far less worthwhile to actually pursue these cases here.
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Under C11, statutory damages are now limited to $5000 for non-commercial infiringement, so there's not a lot of incentive for the rights holders to pursue litigation.
Your kind are not welcome. (Score:5, Interesting)
I really would like to see organized resistance and civil disobedience to the Media cartels, and a campaign to paint them as the evil monsters they are.
I happen to think that RIAA, MPAA, CRIA, and BREIN are Scoundrels, of the same vein as the Westboro Baptist Church, and the Taliban, and other hate based organizations that use a religious or quasi-religious basis just like religion does to persuade people that they should be paid forever and ever and ever for a non-product, and for what really is an economically stilted scam meant to drain the poor, oppress other people, abuse children, ruin people's lives over a non-reason. Efforts should be taken by interest groups to dismantle these organizations.
Re:Your kind are not welcome. (Score:4, Informative)
It's called the Pirate Party. Make sure yours is emdorsed/recognized by Pirate Parties International, and become a member. Donating is great, joining even better.
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Obligatory (Score:5, Insightful)
Your litigation campain advocates a
( ) technical ( ) legislative ( ) market-based ( ) vigilante (x) legal
approach to fighting piracy. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from state to state before a bad federal law was passed.)
(x) Torrent sites will change to a new protocol
(x) They don't have the money to settle or pay damages
(x) Open wi-fi access points
( ) It is defenseless against brute force attacks
(x) Litigation is not actually a deterrent to teenagers
(x) Your evidence collection methods are open to attack in court
( ) Microsoft will not put up with it
( ) The police will not put up with it
( ) Requires too much cooperation from judges
( ) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once
( ) Many ISPs cannot afford to lose business
( ) Pirates don't care about invalid addresses in their lists
(x) Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business
(x) Bad press when you sue a grandmother for what a 10 year old does
Specifically, your plan fails to account for
( ) Laws expressly prohibiting it
( ) Lack of centrally controlling authority for the net
(x) Open proxies in foreign countries
(x) Tor and darknets
(x) Asshats
(x) Jurisdictional problems
( ) Unpopularity of weird new taxes
( ) Public reluctance to accept weird new forms of money
( ) Willingness of users to install OS patches received by email
(x) Armies of worm riddled broadband-connected Windows boxes
( ) Eternal arms race involved in all filtering approaches
( ) Extreme profitability of piracy
( ) Joe jobs and/or identity theft
( ) Technically illiterate politicians
( ) Extreme stupidity on the part of people who do business you
( ) Dishonesty on the part of pirates themselves
( ) Bandwidth costs that are unaffected by client filtering
and the following philosophical objections may also apply:
( ) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever
been shown practical
(x) Any scheme based on mass lawsuits and prosecution is unacceptable
( ) IP headers should not be the subject of legislation
( ) Blacklists suck
( ) Whitelists suck
( ) Countermeasures should not involve wire fraud or credit card fraud
( ) Countermeasures should not involve sabotage of public networks
( ) Countermeasures must work if phased in gradually
( ) Sending data should be free
(x) Why should we have to trust you and your servers?
( ) Incompatiblity with open source or open source licenses
(x) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem
( ) I don't want the government reading my packets
( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough
Furthermore, this is what I think about you:
( ) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work.
(x) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your
house down!
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And I think in the 13 or so years that its been reposted, it has aged like a fine wine.
you must be new here
Show me the sensus data. (Score:4, Funny)
I didn't think there were that many people in Canada. Isn't it mostly populated by sheep and bears?
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Yeah, and those fuckers download A LOT, eh!
Re:Show me the sensus data. (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, and those hosers download A LOT, eh!
FTFY
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I wish. Then we could turn the bears on the CRIA. Nothing like a good mauling to show how stupid the idea is.
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illegal movies
I agree, there should be a law against the crap they're putting out. Sadly, however, it's not illegal yet.
Illegal activities! (Score:5, Interesting)
Once again, we see these unlicensed "private investigators" working behind closed doors with no oversight. They make lists of "IP numbers" with zero proof that anyone ever did anything wrong. This fake detective work is completely wrong and illegal. They (the criminal shakedown scammers) should be arrested and made to pay back all the money they have stolen. And go to prison for a long time too.
Canipre's Head Office is a PO Box (Score:5, Interesting)
The company name rhymes with canape, but I cannot help but read it as "Can I Prey!"
Anyways, Google Street View shows that their head office appears to be a mail box in a post office that is part of a corner store at 15410 Pierrefonds Blv, Montreal, QC so I guess I won't be ordering them a few thousand pizzas.
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Its not a PO box. Its a suite. However i don't know the company, but in that same building there is a sushi shop, convenience store, bakery
, bankruptcy agency AND a Thai massage parlor... With happy ending!!!
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No, the website says 15400.
http://canipre.com/company-info.html [canipre.com]
no independant confirmation: press release? (Score:2)
Every article has the same content, and links back to a post media story. I haven't been able to find a press release, and the case doesn't have a citation, so it looks like a "placed" story, to offset the limits on copyright infringement suits imposed by bill C-11.
Generally, one has to commence a suit, then go to court and ask for an order, addressed to a particular ISP, to obtain contact information for specific customers. Otherwise you need an extraordinary remedy, a so-called Norwich order (see Slaw,
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Canpire = Canadian Vampire. Sucking on the blood of the flow of the Internet.
Wonder if sunlight (exposure) will turn them to ash too....?
they know isn't proper (Score:2)
what if they dont know its not proper?
tv movies are a good example, they broadcast to you for free, maybe someone thinks "hey here is Stephen Kings IT on the web, lets watch that", they are now unknowingly being a movie pirate
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If the same person keeps passing counterfeit bills, and whenever he's caught, he keeps claiming that he didn't know... eventually there's going to be an investigation... and they might just stop believing the person.
*facepalms* (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed, the door is closing, on the entertainment industry employing these types. They've seen how ineffective these firms are, how they've pissed off their customers, how they've gotten nothing but bad PR, how piracy actually increased their bottom line (sans lawsuits), and generally idiotic the entire enterprise has been.
The MPAA (and friends) looks the other way, their wallet is fatter. They do not, and it's thinner. So, why would they pay money for someone to make them poorer? Dumb.
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Yep, i've said it a million times, making your customers angry is not good business. ever.
look at companies like steam, Happy customers=$
Suing customers = your fucking your own ass.
it's not a hard concept.
Will the media industry ever learn? (Score:2)
How is this legal for them? (Score:2)
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Actually, to the average person who is ignorant of the nuances of copyright law, I can fully understand the connection being made between file sharing and public libraries. What, that download was a lost sale? How wasn't it a lost sale when I checked the book/movie/game out of the library and read/watched/played it?
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Didn't a recent Canadian law make DRM circumvention illegal? And isn't it illegal in the US, except in certain circumstances?
Senior citizen Canadian, me. (Score:2)
At one time Canada used to be a good place.
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Ok, enoughs enough... (Score:5, Interesting)
Someone with access to MaxMind or something similar look up the IP blocks owned by this "Canipre" company and post them here. Then everyone can start hosting torrents with a spoofed return IP that's in their range. Once they start pulling down their own IP ranges maybe they'll figure out just how fucking stupid this idea is.
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Host Name : DNS1.EHOSTPROS.COM
IP Address : 174.121.90.229
Host Name : dns2.ehostpros.com
IP Address : 174.121.90.227
Since we have the recordable media levy in Canada (Score:2)
which applies to making private copies for your own use of sound recordings of musical works we need a new file type that only plays the audio of the file but needs a password to unlock the video. This way all Canadians can still download the move and listen to is as an audio book but if if they are brave enough get the pass code to unlock the video. Or better yet a video player that fetches the pass code real time whenever you play the file.
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You may want to review bill C-11... which became law just this fall. Specifically, note that the prohibitions on copy protection circumvention extend even to the point of preventing personal and private use.
Oddly enough, bill C-11 makes the levy illegal, since it is charging Canadians for something that they cannot generally lawfully do.
So when will be see the first (Score:3)
wave the the extortion letters? Pay us $3000 or go to jail. I'll keep on downloading. If they bankrupt me I'll give be a incentive to grow weed and make my money that way. I can live comfortably with 4 1000W lights running.
A waste (Score:3)
What the hell are they wasting people's tax dollars (through the courts) on? What the hell are they suing people over? Copying data? What a good use of time, money, and resources! Thank you for tackling this national security emergency!
So, Give me Options. (Score:5, Insightful)
I now discover that because I'm in Canada I can only choose from one quarter of the movies and shows available in the US. [blogspot.ca]
The total number of entries for Canada is currently 2687 movies/shows . The total number of entries for USA is currently 10407 movies/shows. Same price, one quarter the movies.
When I can get the same choice, at the same price, I'll be more than happy to pay my $8 a month. Until then the media corps can suck eggs.
Quick Math... (Score:2)
PeerBlock before Pirate Bay (Score:2, Informative)
Always remember to fire up PeerBlock before visiting PirateBay or starting up Bit Torrent.
They only go after the low hanging fruit, don't be it.
They NEED a WARRANT (Score:4, Informative)
General Inquiries
canipre@canipre.com
647.693.0727
Robin Berry
Senior Director, Operations
rberry@canipre.com
Media Inquiries
media@canipre.com
going to contact these people with the legal aspects of privacy law of canada and let them know that its against the law to knowingly gather information on a person OR IP especially since your scanning hte user to know they are using a certain protocol.
Scanning without a warrant or private investigators liscense ( still questionable without a warrant ) is illegal.
MAKE SURE YOU get a lawyer and have them look into scanning and info gathering without a warrant.
It's a matter of perspective (Score:4, Informative)
I've purchased over 5,000 CDs and over 3,000 DVDs, as well as about 500 VHS tapes in my life. Prices back then weren't cheap, either, especialy for the VHS tapes. They were a "new thing." Same with DVDs when they came out.
I've spent over $150,000 on media over the years.
If I live to be 100, that would be 1200 months of payments. Near as I can figure, I've already paid $125/month from the cradle to the grave for media.
Just when is enough enough?
The Wolf at the Door (Score:5, Interesting)
The half wolf, half pig creature looked up into the rolling meadows. As far as its hungry, greedy eyes could see were beasts of burden. Thousands of grey-white furry forms like the swirls in a wide, muddy stream. The hungry animal wished it could eat all of them. It roared/squeeled, not bothering with a stealthy approach.
Then it broke into a sprint and soon had an unlucky calf in its jaws, it's hot blood still pumping from its neck in spurts. The rest of the herd gradually dispersed. Although one was taken the rest were protected by their sheer numbers. Herd/swarm behavior evolved relatively quickly in the animal world because, at least for the majority, it works. Most of the animals worried little about being taken by predators and just went on with their lives. Someday it may be their turn, but the odds were against it.
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A million Canadians? Really?! And you say it's illegal? Oh kaaay...
That's what, 1 of every 30 Canadians?
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