Verizon Draws Fire For Monitoring App Usage, Browsing Habits 136
An anonymous reader writes "'We're able to view just everything that they do,' Bill Diggins, U.S. chief for the Verizon Wireless marketing initiative, told an industry conference earlier this year. 'And that's really where data is going today. Data is the new oil.' From the article: 'The company this month began offering reports to marketers showing what Verizon subscribers are doing on their phones and other mobile devices, including what iOS and Android apps are in use in which locations. Verizon says it may link the data to third-party databases with information about customers' gender, age, and even details such as "sports enthusiast, frequent diner or pet owner."'"
Bubble ads (Score:5, Insightful)
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Even more opportunity for me to get offers for things I REALLY DON'T NEED.
It's not very anonymous if they can push targeted ads.
I thought the only thing that's keeping this initiative legal is the fact that data is aggregated?
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Good thing there are no rules regarding this, it might stagnate job creation... for my freedom.
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The whole point is that the advertiser pays Verizon, tells them what segments they want to target, and then Verizon mass pushes the ad to that segment. No specific data is transferred to the advertiser, but everybody's happy (except you the end user, but who gives a shit about you, right?)
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And then friends and family notice how many ads for tentacle porn come up when they borrow your phone for a minute. OOOPS!
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reactivating my car-phone...
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Spekking of bubble... Perhaps the man is right, and data is the new oil [...]
If they want to mine my ass for data I'll expect to be reimbursed with a percentage of the take -- I know the difference between my ass and a hole in the ground... It's time we put an end to all this "I drink your Milkshake!" crap.
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How do you throw an operating system?
Is burning an iso to DVD and tossing it good enough or do you have to use an official disk?
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I smell Apple autocorrection. The new plague is here. Thanks, Corpse Steve!
Now people have tags (Score:5, Insightful)
Verizon's the first, but watch Google and others to follow now that it's mainstreamed. We're all going to get put into consumer categories based on our online activities:
sports fan, shoe fetish, gear head, porn enthusiast
These will match up to categories of products which we will then see repeatedly everywhere we go until we get so paranoid we buy them just to feel normal.
It's like minority report, but as a for-profit business instead of a pre-crime intervention.
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sports fan, shoe fetish, gear head, porn enthusiast
Not to mention the fascinating combinations that this generates :)
gear head + porn enthusiast
Sports fan + shoe fetish
shoe fetish + porn enthusiast
I would certainly be labeled a sports porn head gear fetish enthusiast
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I would certainly be labeled a sports porn head gear fetish enthusiast
I would watch that sport. I mean really, if it came down to that or an Idol competition?
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http://www.lflus.com/ [lflus.com]
Re:Now people have tags (Score:5, Interesting)
Verizon has just added a new tag to your profile! (Score:5, Insightful)
We notice that you've been modifying your behavior in response to our tagging. To better serve you, we have tagged you paranoid in our consumer tracking database. This tag reflects your interests and desires as a consumer.
Coincidentally, we are offering you discounts this week:
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* $10 off paramilitary gear if you spend $25
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* Click here to consult with an offshore banking expert
We think you may also qualify for these related tags: prepper, gun owner, cave or basement habitation expert.
If you have any questions, please call our automated line for a recorded answer.
Re:Now people have tags (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm betting this turns into a blackmail database available to the highest bidding politician soon enough.
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More than that, its like a marriage between traditional blackmail and much more subtle consumer advertising pressure, involving detailed psychological profiles that would make both the Stasi and Edward Bernays look like Boyscouts. They have the machinery and algorithms to sample and subtly nudge you hundreds of times each day, even to get your associates to help without realizing.
You think getting TV-watching children to scream bloody murder to get a toy or a treat or a trip was bad... At least people could
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Verizon's the first, but watch Google and others to follow now that it's mainstreamed.
Introducing: Google Now!
Interdasting, its almost like you can predict the past. [google.com]
Re:Now people have tags (Score:5, Interesting)
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Verizon's the first, but watch Google and others to follow now that it's mainstreamed. We're all going to get put into consumer categories based on our online activities:
sports fan, shoe fetish, gear head, porn enthusiast
These will match up to categories of products which we will then see repeatedly everywhere we go until we get so paranoid we buy them just to feel normal.
It's like minority report, but as a for-profit business instead of a pre-crime intervention.
Maybe you should actually watch Minority Report.
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Re:Now people have tags (Score:4, Informative)
Verizon's the first, but watch Google
Verizon is hardly first. Telefónica (fifth largest provider in the world) has been collecting this information since forever (and many more, they even log radio tower stats and correlate with traffic). There i
Last time I posted this I got modded troll for pointing out naked emperor :)
Users are not customers anymore. Today big data is the commodity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzS83BGdWco [youtube.com]
Assholes (Score:5, Funny)
Verizon Wireless says that its initiative, called Precision Market Insights, is legal because the information is aggregated and doesn't reveal customers' identities.
The thought of "ethical" or "good for the customers" isn't in their vocabulary, is it?
If they found the legal loophole that allowed literally ass-raping customers to make extra money, they'd use it the same day.
Re:Assholes (Score:5, Funny)
If they found the legal loophole that allowed literally ass-raping customers to make extra money, they'd use it the same day.
Well bugger that for a laugh
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Well bugger that for a laugh
You missed an apostrophe in the first word.
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Have you seen their new plans? That's an ass-raping right there and their Q3 profits are up as a result.
Re:Assholes and more (Score:2)
http://publicintelligence.net/business-roundtable/ [publicintelligence.net]
So who's on it?
Ivan G. Seidenberg, Chairman, Chairman & CEO, Verizon Communications
Randall L. Stephenson, At-large member, Chairman & CEO, AT&T Inc.
Jeffrey R. Immelt (Jeff), At-large member, Chairman & CEO, General Electric Company
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The thought of "ethical" or "good for the customers" isn't in their vocabulary, is it?
selling "goods to the customer", however, is.
Re:Assholes (Score:5, Insightful)
How quaint. You still think their cell phone users are customers. When it comes to data like this, advertising agencies are the customer. Cell phone users are a resource to be mined.
We need to take the laws requiring opt-out forms for credit card and bank accounts, and expand it to cover all services which wish to sell customer data.
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What you say is true for the likes of Google, who offer free services. Verizon is potentially setting themselves up for problems because the data they're mining IS from their customers: most of their profits come from people paying their phone bills.
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I ain't gonna pay $100 per month with capped data just so these leeches can resell my usage habits to the highest bidder.
Fuck those fucking fuckers.
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Re:Assholes and Modern History (Score:2)
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Modded 'funny' because there's not a 'sad but true' mod.
Person of Interest (Score:5, Funny)
Mr Reese, I have a new number for you. This one is about to go buy a KFC. You have 15 mins to get there before he does and make sure he buys McDonalds.
OK Mr Finch, how do you suggest I persuade him? The M16 or the AK47?
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:-) informative!
Re:Root that phone and run a custom ROM (Score:5, Informative)
Doesn't help you if what they're monitoring and analyzing is your upstream data traffic.
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VPN proxy. I think every smartphone has that built-in.
Of course, it doesn't stop them from pulling location data or calling patterns. Unless you install a VoIP app and use that.
Re:Change DNS (Score:3, Interesting)
Verizon just uses DNS hijacking to record your sites.
So the easy solution is to use Norton, Open, or Comodo DNS. They also offer malware and phishing protection as well. do that and your computer wont be sniffed. The IP addresses do not mean anything without a DNS record to correspond.
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So the easy solution is to use Norton, Open, or Comodo DNS. They also offer malware and phishing protection as well. do that and your computer wont be sniffed. The IP addresses do not mean anything without a DNS record to correspond.
The easy solution is to not have a smartphone. Seriously, I'm already tired from maintaining my security and privacy on my home/work PCs. Now I have to constantly fuck with my phone too? Not worth it.
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That's too easy
Geeks like to do things twice as hard and five times as long
Re:Root that phone and run a custom ROM (Score:5, Funny)
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has she been properly bindered?
just asking questions, that's all.
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That's too easy
Geeks like to do things twice as hard and five times as long
Right you are... That's why I'd add "then install firwall, tor, custom browser and e-mail client... then start tweaking settings" :D
How long did that take?
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Opting out doesn't mean anything to me. Ok so I opt-out of them selling my information; unless I missed it, nothing on that opt-out page said anything about stopping all of their data collection. What guarantee do I have that they're not going to sell my information anyways? So I move a few radio buttons around and they stay there when I refresh the page; what stops them from distributing that information anyways? They don't have any ethics to begin with. They'll happily change someone's plan mid-contract a
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I'm sure the opt-out will be 'honored' just like the DNT flag. Advertisers are such incredibly honest people after all.
Re:Should be a limit (Score:5, Interesting)
There should be a limit on the number of details that can be linked.
Yes, and that number should be zero. If I'm paying for the service, they have no moral right to be selling my data, anonymized or not, nor do they have a right to link it to third-party databases. And they especially have no moral right to use that data to engage in targeted advertising. Fuck those leeches and fuck the tide of slime they rode in on. And fuck the politicians who have sold us out to the highest bidder by legalizing this kind of thing.
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Yes, and that number should be zero. If I'm paying for the service, they have no moral right to be selling my data, anonymized or not, nor do they have a right to link it to third-party databases. And they especially have no moral right to use that data to engage in targeted advertising. Fuck those leeches and fuck the tide of slime they rode in on. And fuck the politicians who have sold us out to the highest bidder by legalizing this kind of thing.
Their response: "If you don't like it, feel free to get the fuck off of our network. kthxbai!"
If you need their service, you accept their terms. Do you need their service? Be sure to look up a definition of the word "need" before you answer.
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And In return, the public SHOULD have every right to tell them, "fine, now get out of our spectrum, kthxbai!".
If they need to use part of the public commons, they accept the public's terms. The public isn't even obligated to let them keep their corporate charter.
Re:Should be a limit (Score:4, Informative)
They disclose what they do with the info and offer an "opt-out [verizonwireless.com]" (may need to be a customer to view that page) and if you don't trust that, no one is forcing you to use their services.
"Moral" doesn't mean what you think it means.
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Verizon is hardly to blame for you not reading the contract [verizonwireless.com] you signed/agreed to, which says, in part
Porn Ads (Score:1)
I guess I'll start getting ads for porn sites.
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reminds me of french 1st TV chain (Score:2)
... whose president, a couple of years ago, surprised some people announcing coldly that he was there exclusively to 'provide receptive brain time to ads', and nothing else...
A receptive brain provider, in his own french terms: 'fournisseur de cerveau disponible'.
The TV indeed you can choose not to have; the GSM seems a bit harder.
Maybe the solution is to separate functions: having a minimal-but-tetherable phone, and pair it with a small tablet that you (may?) control better, or at least whose data won't im
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... whose president, a couple of years ago, surprised some people announcing coldly that he was there exclusively to 'provide receptive brain time to ads', and nothing else...
Nothing surprising about that. TV networks sell Ads, but they buy programs.
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That is ironic, but I can see it making sense. First it was device convergence, where the camera, USB flash drive, PDA, pager, cell phone, and MP3 player were rolled into one. Now we separate devices due to security issues. That way, the cell phone has no access to the documents on the camera, and the tablet has no access to what the text messages are.
Maybe a saner model might be to use a trusted proxy server for all traffic, have a capable enough OS on the device so an app does not get access to photos
If We Really Had A Working Court System... (Score:3)
...Verizon would be receiving an anti-trust conviction a few hours after admitting something like this.
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...Verizon would be receiving an anti-trust conviction a few hours after admitting something like this.
You use that word. I don't think it means [wikipedia.org] what you think it means.
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There's no law against it and the courts are not supposed to make law.
The problem is Congress and the FCC. This won't get resolved as long as elected officials may take campaign contributions from people they don't represent.
2008 Telecoms immunity/ Carrier IQ (Score:1)
When Congress granted US telcos immunity in 2008 it set this up then. Now they think they can act with impunity and are above the law. And they know, if they happen to be breaking the law, nobody will go to jail, no penalties will be paid, they'll just sponsor a few Congresscritters and any snooping will be legalized.
I also wonder if this is deep packet inspection only, because what Apps your using would only work if those apps were cloud services. However there is a piece of spyware that was installed on U
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What are you talking about? the Telecom immunity only extends to government ordered activities concerning the TSP and FISA monitoring issued without warrants between a certain time period.
Anything the telecoms do outside of those specific instances is fair game to go after them and they are not immune from anything. Perhaps what you think is against the law isn't actually so? Maybe there was another immunity law that I'm not aware of, it so please cite it.
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IT didn't teach the telecoms anything other then if they cooperate with the government they wouldn't be nickel and dime'd to death by lawsuits if the government fucks up.
Your statement is completely baseless and revolves around a paranoid fallacy that exists only under your tin foil hat.
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Came here to say that this is probably Carrier IQ making this all possible. And people don't give a shit about privacy so they won't care.
Orbot: Mobile Anonymity + Circumvention (Score:5, Interesting)
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As a general rule, use VPN into your home or business for any/all Internet activity... even if you don't want to use anonymity tools like Tor.
The parent is right that putting something like Tor on a mobile device doesn't make a lot of sense.
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I don't know if I want my ISP knowing I use TOR. Despite what good it might be, something commonly associated with pedophiles and criminals is not something I want to be seen using, even less linked to my real name and data.
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[...] something commonly associated with pedophiles and criminals is not something I want to be seen using [...]
The less you use it day to day, the more legitimate this argument becomes... I'm with ArmageddonLord, the answer is more TOR not less.
Does opt-out really opt you out? (Score:5, Insightful)
How do you know?
Verizon has its own definition of 'unlimited' why would they not do the same for 'opt-out'?
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Good question. I logged into my Verizon account and went to the privacy page [verizonwireless.com]. It offered a link to the privacy policy and a link to a page for Location-Based Services (LBS) Privacy Settings. I visited the settings page first, and it said there was nothing to set. What I skimmed said something about Verizon Navigator, which I don't use because it is a paid service, and Google Maps is so good. (Does this mean they take your money and spy on you at the same time? I know Google spies on me, but it doesn't cost
PUCS? no more privacy in changing use-agreements. (Score:5, Interesting)
.
Wasn't there supposed to be some modicum of privacy afforded to the end-users by the networks if all they did was run a comm-channel? I guess the retro-active pardoning of the telco-spying on all customers turned the notion of privacy inside-out. So along with goggle's staring at you at all of your port-80 traffic with doubleclicks and javascript and others using flash-based cookies, you've got to worry about eaves-dropping of all of your activity over you communications channels.
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I'm sure that "our" express consent is buried somewhere in the fine-print of the ever-changeable-when-they-want-to user agreements. That concept of one-sided ability of the service provided to change the terms of the usage-agreement at any time and without notice has to be the most odious of the gotchas that exist in this world. I'm not face-booking because they change their privacy policy as often as possible and always reset the privacy settings to show-the-world-everything-including-your-undies every time they update anything like timeline.
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Can the Public Utilities Commission do anything about this? or are cell-phone/wireless plans beyond the scope of the PUCs?
Re:PUCS? no more privacy in changing use-agreement (Score:4, Informative)
VPN (Score:1)
I used to be able to VPN to home on my old carrier.
More recently I attempted, and neither PPTP and L2TP worked. I'm still investigating for other causes, but I wouldn't be surprised to find it's blocked.
explanation (Score:3)
What level of access do they have? I need details explaining more. Can they see what you are doing when you are on a cellular network, or when you are on wifi too.
Can they see what you are doing when you are using private browsing? Are they capturing passwords and storing them? Is the device pushing back secure information to them?
Does a VPN prevent tracking?
I expect some things when using a cellphone. Having them essentially listen in on all my communication or interaction with others is not one of them.
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Can they see what you are doing when you are using private browsing? Are they capturing passwords and storing them? Is the device pushing back secure information to them?
Yeah, like online banking. What could possibly go wrong?
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What level of access do they have? I need details explaining more.
Ah, how quick the fools are to simply forget about Carrier IQ. [wikipedia.org]
Evil. (Score:4, Insightful)
There's crossing the line, and then there's blowing past it in a rocket car while going for the world land speed record.
Did you every think when you were younger, if you remember before the Internet, that your phone company would listen in on your conversations, analyze them word for word, tally them up and present them to advertisers in neat little charts?
The government does that? Heck I'm not doing anything wrong.
The utility does it for profit? Mmmm.. no.
The hulking sasquatch in the corner is that you can in fact find out things about people, or even more easily, about tiny groups of interest, even if you have stripped the caller data. And what if one of your marketing customers has written some finely targeted apps, for which they buy the report? It may be quite easy to integrate the additional data with what they have already got.
Well then... (Score:2)
I'm sure they're still monitoring my data, but I doubt cyanogenmod sends them info on my app usage.
I just wish the CM team would make an INC 2 image past 7. Despite the fact their news posts claim they support it, I've yet to see one.
I've tried the unofficial builds but they haven't played well with my phone, the last one i tried sent my battery into overdrive.
change provider ? (Score:1)
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Uh? can't you even vote with your wallet ? drop Verizon and get a new contract with some other carrier ?
Morton's Fork [wikipedia.org]
Doesn't matter which carrier you have a contract with, they all engage in this sort of deep monitoring. Verizon is just being particularly blatant about it.. today. Tomorrow, it will be AT&T, or T-Mobile, or [Insert Carrier Here].
That makes the decision easier! (Score:2)
My contract with AT&T ends in December. Now I can scratch Verizon off the list. Now which company DOESN'T do this?
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My contract with AT&T ends in December. Now I can scratch Verizon off the list. Now which company DOESN'T do this?
The all do it, they all have the means and the access to your data, Verizon was just stupid enough to admit it in public.
SSL only (Score:2)
The solution is to only use encrypted services. If your fav site or does not encrypt ask the provider to add that option.
I'm sure there'll be a class-action lawsuit (Score:2)
Rather than ignoring the postcards that guarantee me a whopping $10 in the settlement, I might actually file my own claim just to be a jerk. I'm big on privacy and if this is true, I wouldn't be unhappy to see them run into the ground for this.
Sports enthusiast, frequent diner, pet owner,... (Score:2)
Nice quote, Bruno (Score:2)
"'We're able to view just everything that they do,' Bill Diggins, U.S. chief for the Verizon Wireless marketing initiative, told an industry conference earlier this year.
All I have to say is that guy better have a huge jock strap. The size of his balls must be staggering to make a comment like that.
A Couple of Points (Score:5, Interesting)
2) Albeit spoken by a true, obvious d-bag, the statement "data is the new oil" is a damn fine analogy IMO. Why, you may ask? Because no one gets to mine oil off my property without paying me for usage rights, and my data should be under the same consideration. Not only should mining my data for for-profit purposes require my explicit permission, it should also require fair compensation (fair to me, not Verizon).
Someone who's a better writer than me needs to draft up a letter to Congresscritters that we can all copy/paste to indicate our chagrin.
It really is a shame. (Score:1)
So contaminate the data. (Score:1)
follow this (Score:2)
http://www.privacysos.org/blog [privacysos.org] thank you
Mod parent UP please... (Score:2)
Very good site!
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Do what I do - default ringtone - silence. Default vibration - off. Add in your real known contacts, group them, and give them a ringtone - more than one if you prefer. Now remain blissfully uninterrupted by all those "unknowns" etc. They'll leave voicemail if they're important and not in your contact list. That takes care of being bothered by robo-call asshats and the like.
Next, delete your FB, Twitter, and other crap social accounts. Disconnect. You don't need them, and won't miss them, especially if you