Chinese Censors Are Being Watched 71
Rambo Tribble writes "The Economist is reporting on two research teams, one at Harvard and another at the University of Hong Kong, who have developed software to detect what posts to Chinese social media get censored. 'The team has built up a database comprising more than 11m posts that were made on 1,382 Chinese internet forums. Perhaps their most surprising result is that posts critical of the government are not rigorously censored. On the other hand, posts that have the purpose of getting people to assemble, potentially in protest, are swept from the internet within a matter of hours.' Chinese censors may soon have to deal with an unprecedented transparency of their actions."
First uncensored post (Score:5, Funny)
The other first posts must have already been censored.
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nah, you were just faster than all tho
So that's who... (Score:2)
Watches the watchmen.
But who watches those who watch the watchmen, eh?
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The watchers are being watched while being watched. Watch-ception.
Eyes wide open source, of course!
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Kiteo, his eyes closed.
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Slashdot, among others.
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It's a circular relationship.
Universities are great repositories of knowledge thanks to the students who arrive knowing much and leave knowing little.
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I watched you watch The Watchmen. It was more entertaining than watching The Watchmen.
Well I'll be a big brother's uncle! (Score:2)
The question remains, however: Who watches the watchers watching the censors? Those at U of Hong Kong may have to soon deal with an unprecedented amount of attention upon their actions.
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Chinese censors may soon have to deal with an unprecedented transparency of their actions.
Go ahead, guess how the censors are going to "deal" with transparency. I'll give you a hint: it's already their job to "deal" with transparency.
Re:Well I'll be a big brother's uncle! (Score:5, Informative)
If you RTFA (no really), one of the conclusions is that the goal of the censorship is to provide a form of safety value. Let the people criticize the party/government, and even let that root out corruptions and law breaking. But when the discussion turns to protest or other forms of mass action, start censoring and nip it in the bud.
Not in favor of censorship, but I have to admit it is a pretty effective strategy.
Re:Well I'll be a big brother's uncle! (Score:4, Insightful)
But when the discussion turns to protest or other forms of mass action, start censoring and nip it in the bud.
To add to that, and to show why the censors aren't shaking in their little space boots, a discussion of censorship would also trigger the censorship. This is how the censors "deal" with transparency of their actions, they hide it from The People. They don't really care if the rest of the world knows about it.
Re:Well I'll be a big brother's uncle! (Score:4, Insightful)
(Says the guy whose username is 'fuzzyfuzzyfungus', on Slashdot, before no doubt going back to working for world peace or something...)
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The more important question that remains is about preemptive censorship. Who can count the posts and other internet activities that don't make it into the monitoring software of the researchers because of blocking, filtering, whatever?
As technology improves, Chinese censors may need to deal with unprecedented transparency, but the researchers will certainly have to deal with ever more effective methods of controlling the Internet. And it is not clear who will come on top in this kind of arms race, especial
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Hong Kong is different to the mainland and freedom of expression is guaranteed in the Basic Law, the mini-constitution that took effect in 1997 after the handover when it transitioned from British colonial rule to Chinese rule. The worse the government does is to erect sound-proof barriers between demonstrators and visiting communist party leaders to keep them in their little bubble.
Whether there are repercussions (i.e. travel restrictions then they attempt to go into the mainland) for the researchers remai
so what (Score:2, Interesting)
in america posts of copyrighted music are swept from the internet within hours. every society has a different opinion on what should be taken off the internet. china wants to prevent riots, america wants to prevent music.
Re:so what (Score:5, Insightful)
Here come the false equivalencies getting +5 in a matter of hours, too.
If you're in America, see if any of these sites are blocked
http://thepiratebay.se/ [thepiratebay.se]
http://www.mininova.org/ [mininova.org]
http://isohunt.com/ [isohunt.com]
http://www.demonoid.me/ [demonoid.me]
http://www.torrentreactor.net/ [torrentreactor.net]
No? Then your claim that "in america posts of copyrighted music are swept from the internet within hours" is false.
And the audacity of equating people who want to assemble and find redress with their local governments with those who want to get free mp3s. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this sad joke of a comparison. You'll only find naivete like this in the West. If you want to make some accurate comparisons, talk about police brutality in both countries, or maybe talk about Assange if he's ever extradited. In the meantime, get some perspective.
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I thought Isohunt didn't allow you to download torrents from the US?
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Uhuh. Sure. At gunpoint. Keep deluding yourselves, Americans. As if it wasn't enough that your government lies to you and you lie to each other.
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China doesnt block websites either, it only filters url, based on the content. In the US, you issue a DMCA (even if you do not own the copyright to the content, and you just want to censor the content) to accomplish the same.
Please note that I am not equating the morality of these two, but only stating that we do have censorship in the US, even if not as bad as China.
Re:so what (Score:5, Insightful)
How about this one?
http://megaupload.com/ [megaupload.com]
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Mininova has gone legit (Score:2)
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I hate copyright as much as the next Slashdotter, but there is a huge difference between commercial speech and political speech.
I'm trying to imagine a scenario involving copyright where a political movement could be suppressed.
Yeah but (Score:2)
Re:Yeah but (Score:4, Interesting)
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Lets see, a billion people with how many devices - try censoring that! I'm assuming they aren't using tech to do it per se but people.
Remember, the govenment essentially controls all ISPs and Internet access points in China, those billion devices just can't go anywhere on the internet when in China. Of course in addition to the people employed to do this, the great firewall uses all the advanced tech [wikipedia.org] like deep packet inspection filters to trigger generic URL filtering, DNS poisoning, IP blocking, and TCP connection reset measures.
They have also bullied large companies to self censor their websites as a condition to maintain their licence
And (Score:2)
They'll deal with it (Score:2)
Chinese censors may soon have to deal with an unprecedented transparency of their actions.
I kinda doubt that the Chinese government has anything to fear from these research teams.
Seems like a plan to me (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps their most surprising result is that posts critical of the government are not rigorously censored. On the other hand, posts that have the purpose of getting people to assemble, potentially in protest, are swept from the internet within a matter of hours.
That's not surprising. By leaving the critical posts up the government gives the illusion they aren't as oppressive as they are on free speech. The rally to protest on the streets is a much more public thing. The last thing the Chinese government wants is another "international news incident". Keeping the revolutionaries in their parents' basements is how they do that.
Talk is cheap, so they let it run.
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Or how about keeping the counter-revolutionaries in their dorms? Mainland Chinese rich enough to have a basement are less likely to protest in public than those lliving in cramped quarters with ten other poorly fed workers. Most of the public disturbance in China appear to be triggered by poor working conditions or, less often, government abuse of ordinary citizens.
Re:Seems like a plan to me (Score:5, Interesting)
There is space to criticize the government in China. It's all in how you say it. Most domestic criticism is self-censored to some extent.
I've seen it many times myself. A protester in China can usually get away with saying something along the lines of "the local party bosses are corrupt", or "this particular party policy is harmful". Anything that suggests a localized and correctable problem, but always within the confines of the Communist system. This is what successful protesters in China do these days.
What triggers censorship, imprisonment and worse, is to suggest that the party system itself is the problem. That is what is beyond the pale in China.
This arrangement is hardly perfect of course. However it has created a remarkable amount of space for public discourse in China, far more than those citizens have had in many decades. That political space has allowed China to grow, reform and modernize. In time I suspect that China's reforms will only grow and get more powerful.
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The solution = False Positives (Score:5, Insightful)
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The solution is to rise up, not to play along.
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you might as well say they obviously didn't try that hard enough, hence the tank parade...
and who built the tanks, hmm? not high ranking party officials. they don't drive them, either.
also, I said "rise up", not "protest", not "ask". actually rising up would mean it's over before it began. when a dog shakes some fleas off, it's not a fight, is it.
and none of this applies only to china. rise the fuck up. whatever that may mean for you personally, do it.
Self censorship (Score:1)
Don't pretend that we are any better... (Score:3, Informative)
But don't pretend for a moment we are any better. The news is heavily censored everywhere, even in liberal western democracies:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/google-getting-more-requests-from-democracies-to-censor/ [nytimes.com]
Libel laws are a very effective way to cause self-censorship by the media:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-censorship [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law [wikipedia.org]
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britains-libel-laws-are-stifling-free-speech-says-un-894519.html [independent.co.uk]
http://overland.org.au/blogs/loudspeaker/2012/03/defamation-laws-the-real-threat/ [overland.org.au]
http://www.law.uts.edu.au/comslaw/factsheets/archivedfactsheets/freespeechanddefamationpre2010.html [uts.edu.au]
http://www.studentatlaw.com/articles/130/1/Defamation-and-Freedom-of-Speech/Page1.html [studentatlaw.com]
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/11/12/opinion/self-censorship-at-cbs.html [nytimes.com]
http://www.japanlaw.info/law2003/2003_LIBEL_LAW_AND_CORRUPTION.html [japanlaw.info]
There's also soft self-censorship too even in the US: "Sure you can print that... if you are prepared for consequences... Ah wonderful. I knew we could find common ground."
http://rt.com/usa/news/editor-at-top-us-newspaper-resigns-over-censorship/ [rt.com]
http://cofcc.org/2011/03/new-york-times-editor-confesses-to-censoring-information-about-black-crime/ [cofcc.org]
http://usmediaandisrael.com/intimidation-at-the-new-york-times/ [usmediaandisrael.com]
http://omnologos.com/watch-out-for-self-censorship-at-the-new-york-times/ [omnologos.com]
"Tell the truth and run." - Yugoslav proverb
Hong Kong? (Score:3)
Re:Hong Kong? (Score:4, Interesting)
China's a country of over a billion a people of different ethnicities and cultures, which you can't really look at it through the lens of averages or generalisations. The difference between rural China and Shanghai is far greater than the difference between Shanghai and Hong Kong. You might as well ask: why don't the people of the US rise up and demand better when their is so low?
That makes sense (Score:2)
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In China the abuse is in the culture, where almost everyone there does things in a similar way to others considered to have a lower social status. Inciting a revolution and having another group of people in power changes nothing but brings chaos and misery.
For American people capable of exert influence there, the best way to bring changes is not to do battle on the internet, but to persuade or force the government give up indoctrination. There is still a required course in China called Marxist Philosophy, w
China is biggest democracy (Score:1)
For the last 15 years I travelled 3 or 4 times a year to China for my work. (purchasing cheap stuff I can sell for high dollars in the west)
Each trip averaged two weeks and in those trips I travel all around China.
From HongKong to deep inside of China. I speak with high officials and with factory workers because I am intrigued by their culture.
The Chinese government is really afraid for revolutions. They had many in their history and the Chinese people will start a new revolution if needed.
Especially now t
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Can you fight corruption *with* freedom of speech and democracy?
My Chinese friends, some latin for you: (Score:2)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
learn it, post it. make it your underground battle cry
Here in the West, we outsource all manufacturing to China. In China, they outsource all rights protections to the West.
A curious, obviously temporary, global arrangement. The West's economy will collapse, and angry Chinese will rise up and demand their rights. Give it 10-20 years.
An immoral defence (Score:1)