Belgian Rightsholders Group Wants To Charge Libraries For Reading Books To Kids 244
New submitter BSAtHome writes "People with a healthy interest in fundamental freedoms and basic human rights have probably heard about SABAM, the Belgian collecting society for music royalties, which has become one of the global poster children for how outrageously out-of-touch-with-reality certain rightsholders groups appear to be. This morning, word got out in Belgian media that SABAM is spending time and resources to contact local libraries across the nation, warning them that they will start charging fees because the libraries engage volunteers to read books to kids. Volunteers. Who – again – read books to kids."
Crazy! (Score:5, Insightful)
What's next, having to pay money to sing in the shower?
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, if anyone can hear you sing.
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not if anyone CAN hear you sing.
It's if anyone CAN POSSIBLY hear you sing.
For example, if there is room in your bathroom for somebody else to stand, you would need to pay because you could possibly have a roommate standing there listening. And it's too much trouble to track whether or not somebody is there listening, it's just much easier copyright math to charge you assuming you are putting on a public performance.
Two can play that game (Score:3)
I think the best way to retaliate is to copyright your farts. Then you can charge people for smelling them.
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, if anyone can hear you sing.
I wish it weren't true, but sadly it is. This is why in the U.S. when you are given a "birthday cake" by a restaraunt, the waitresses cannot sing the standard "happy birthday" song and instead have to make up their own tune and their own lyrics, which don't invoke the same feelings that the standard song would have if they were allowed to sing it. This is an area of copyrights that I find invasive and counterproducitve.
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Informative)
"Happy song-day to you,
We wrote this for you.
We'd sing you the real one,
But it's copyright too."
Re: (Score:3)
Hahaha. Nice idea. Thanks for the information. :-)
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Funny)
Unfortunately, now no one can sing that without violating your copyright. Oh, I see what you're trying to do. Get everyone to start singing your "Words" in place of the original, then, once everyone is used to singing it that way, you swoop in with your lawyers and begin collecting royalties. Sweet!
Step 1: Provide alternative lyrics for copyrighted Birthday song
Step 2: Tell people on Slashdot they should sing those lyrics instead
Step 3: Watch as the ever-so-influential Slashdotters spread the tradition far-and-wide in no time at all
Step 4: Lawyer Up
Step 5: Profit!
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
How about when customers sing the copyrighted song? :/
This occasionally happens when the customer brings their own celebration cake. Customers singing the standard "happy birthday" song in my experience is tolerated and nobody says anything about the song being "non-free" to sing with the standard lyrics. i.e. who gets to choose and sing the song and lyrics seems to go with who brings the cake.
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Informative)
Didn't you get the memo? Even birdsongs are copyrighted.
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the link to relevant story: link [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it's crazy all right.
These Belgian swine aren't legally permitted to charge children to BORROW these same books from the library and read them THEMSELVES, but they somehow have decided that they have the right to charge THE LIBRARY, if an adult reads them ALOUD to the same children?
Apparently it takes a Belgian lintellectual property awyer to dumb down a village ...
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Interesting)
I couldn't agree with you /more/. ASCII typesetting is a *beautiful* thing, with several major advantages:
- It's easy to read
- It requires _fewer_ characters to be entered than HTML typesetting
* You can easily come up with new typesetting styles on-the-fly and their meaning is usually obvious...
o ***Tradition, tradition***.
^ I wish more posters would return to the good old days for these reasons.
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
The topic of this story is so annoying I feel like it warrants USE OF BOTH
Re: (Score:2)
You want to USE BOTH?
Re: (Score:3)
By the way, on Slashdot you can use the bold and italic HTML tags for the sake of emphasis, not need to write in caps which looks like SHOUTING.
Maybe he wrote the subtitles [prelude-to-action.com] for Beneath the Steel Sky.
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Funny)
THANK YOU FOR THE 1990'S NETIQUETTE LESSON
stop shouting. some of us got really drunk last night. it was friday you know.
Re: (Score:3)
Belgian cunt here.
I don't know, I have no problem with English people. I have been there a few times, and most are indeed quite kind ( but your food is horrible, sorry about that ).
However, being called 'cunt' , doesn't exactly help to improve relations.
Judging all people of a country by it's lowest lifeforms, doesn't help either.
I suggest we put our petty prejudices aside for a moment, and focus on the mutual enemy we have : groups like SABAM, RIAA ( and whatever the English counterpart is ).
Re:Crazy! (Score:5, Funny)
What's next, having to pay money to sing in the shower?
Well, if there is an audience, yes. And it is about time they started making these freeloading children pay their fair share for entertainment. The librarians can always pay for the royalties by simply speaking a commercial every chapter. That way kids can learn about other important thinks like Coke, and the new Barbie. /sarcasm
Secret Readings (Score:5, Funny)
I forecast a rise in secret reading sessions -- word passed among friends, person to person, with ... Where the Wild Things Are read to a carefully-selected band of Reading Rebels. In secret.
Shhh!!!
Re: (Score:3)
No, not really. The problem is that reality is increasingly out of touch with sense.
Re: (Score:3)
I always sing the entire song, otherwise it bothers me until I finish it.
I'm sailing away...
Outrageous (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
And the kids should be charged with laziness. I mean, really, can't they read the books by themselves ? A generation of slackers, I call it.
If its like the UK library groups it will be someone reading things like "The Gruffalo" to three and four year olds.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
I could read when I was 3. I could speak full sentences when I was 1.
But then I'm not a fucking Belgian.
Evil and stupid, good work guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd bet you a considerable sum of money that whatever you'll manage to wring out of volunteer reading groups at public libraries won't amount to 2/5ths fuck-all compared to the amount you'll lose because the larval Belgians are going to be growing up with fewer books and more of whatever other entertainment is available.
There are times when being evil pays good money. This. Isn't. One. Of. Them. Dumbass.
Re:Evil and stupid, good work guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
But it will improve next quarter's profits, and that's all that matters.
Re:Evil and stupid, good work guys... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is *NOT* about the interests of the publishers. This is ALL about the interests of the lawyers who seek to benefit by suiing everyone they possibly can. That they are harming their "clients" business in the long term does not bother them in the slightest.
The **AA and all of them are a bunch of lawyers with their own interests at heart. Sure, their clients 'allow' it to happen, but most of the time, they act quite autonomously and independently of their clients as can be shown by the numerous times these groups have sued over materials they don't hold the rights to.
Re:Evil and stupid, good work guys... (Score:5, Funny)
me shudders in a lovecraftian kinda way
Re: (Score:2)
This is a recording industry association shutting down books.
Evil yes, but stupid? Maybe not.
Re:Evil and stupid, good work guys... (Score:5, Interesting)
Larval Belgians should be told WHY they cannot be read to, and encouraged to remember their enemies. You are never too young to remember who fucked you over, and you have a lifetime for payback.
Tell people "reading is subversive" if you want to get them to read.
Say What? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry... but these greedy fucking cunts need to be taken out back and horse-whipped!!!
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
Re: (Score:3)
You have to careful letting that show in Austin. You'll get a ticket.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
This shows the moderation system on slashdot just doesn't work in some cases. This is not flamebait, this is a realistic depiction of what justice is supposed to be in cases like this!
Language might be a little unappropriate, but that's nothing when compared to the action of these sabam a-holes!
Public outrage. (Score:2)
Re:Public outrage. (Score:5, Funny)
There's a $30 charge for outrage. Sony owns the rights to it at the moment.
Re:Public outrage. (Score:5, Informative)
It did. The story is about a week old. After it broke SABAM claimed that the library in question does pay about 250 EUR, but it isn't for reading books but for music played in the library. SABAM said that it does collect money for public readings of books but it's only 15 EUR and the book has to be in copyright and be written by one of their member. (Source, in dutch [demorgen.be].)
All of this is BS of course these people try to collect on EVERYTHING and as much as possible. They're regularly collecting money for artists that aren't affiliated with them and tend to go after "soft" targets that don't have resources to fight back. They're scum.
Re:Public outrage. (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
I keep reading stories like that from the US but have never heard anything similar out of belgium. Not to say it's maybe not the case but if it is I haven't heard of it. As for SABAM, I meant they often put individuals or small organisations in their sights. Youth parties, individual DJ's, bars. People who don't have the resources to get into a drawn out legal battle (in either time or money.)
Most Appropriate Response (Score:5, Funny)
And Belgian librarians and the kids they read to all vehemently and with much venom curse... "Belgium!"
Re: (Score:2)
And Belgian librarians and the kids they read to all vehemently and with much venom curse... "Belgium!"
Let's not call them anything, let's just ignore them.
Re: (Score:2)
Seems the moderators are asleep today. For those following along at home, the quote
is from a similarly underrated (but apropos and very funny) Monty Python skit [youtube.com].
Re:Most Appropriate Response (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
And with this action, the word "Belgium" starts it's declining status to the most vile curse word in the galaxy.
Careful, matey, that's not very polite of you. The Phlegms and the Balloons could take offence at that!
Are they doing this on purpose? (Score:5, Insightful)
I can't figure out if these people are stupid, incompetent or both. Is there any way in which they can make themselves seem any less sympathetic?
Re:Are they doing this on purpose? (Score:5, Informative)
Sure, maybe sometime before the advent of radio it was a trivial competition between 'reading' and 'backbreaking domestic drudgery' for the home entertainment market; but that hasn't been true for a while...
Re:Are they doing this on purpose? (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a simpler answer. They are psychopaths the whole bunch of them and simply don't understand such concepts.
Re: (Score:3)
Given that they're likely cooking their books to cover up bribery (RTA - all of it) I doubt they really care about seeming sympathetic. Bribe government officials to give them a club. Use club. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Re:Are they doing this on purpose? (Score:5, Funny)
Is there any way in which they can make themselves seem any less sympathetic?
They could do exactly what they're doing, except while wearing Nazi uniforms and kicking puppies. Maybe run over some grandmothers on the way to the press conference.
Re: (Score:3)
Who owns the 'SS' copyright?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
SABAM has a weight of legislation that gives it authority to do this. It is not doing this especially for the benefit of the creators of the works but because they are licensed to. They have no qualms taking a fee from gig's where the band plays all their own songs! The band, I can assure you never sees the royalty.
I understand that civil process takes a long time in Belgium. Not many people have the resources or patience to test them in a court of law. Hopefully idiotic activities like this report will con
My Sweet Lord (Score:2)
They have no qualms taking a fee from gig's where the band plays all their own songs!
How can the band be sure that it's playing its own songs and that the songs aren't accidentally plagiarized the way "My Sweet Lord" was plagiarized from "He's So Fine"?
Re: (Score:2)
As long as they pay off the right politicians and get money out of it they probably don't care about sympathy.
I hope the public listens and asks candidates about their stance about copyright issues.
Reading is Fundamental (Score:2)
Does that include grannies teaching kids to read?
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, you owe your reading ability to the ancient Canaanites of the Middle east. You are backdated on royalty payments so I suggest you start coughing up like the rest of us law abiding citizens.
Waffles (Score:2)
.
.
.
The Belgians love waffles!! -- John Oliver
Summary is incorrect (Score:5, Informative)
Fascinating the greed that impacts simple people every day live and to to what use?
There is a communication on sabam's website to rectify the miscommunication that appeared in the media, they did not charge the library 250 euro, no it was only 239 euro's but for playing music in the library.
For a public reading they would collect 15 euro's per public reading if the work is protected and the rightsholder is represented by sabam.
Do not and did not collect this fee.
Re:Summary is incorrect (Score:5, Informative)
the summary is correct. SABAM clearly states that they want 15 euros per public reading (if the work is "protected"). and the GP knows this, still he acts as if this is perfectly normal. And, in the message by SABAM, they make it pretty obvious that they intend to ask for these +/- 15 euros whenever they can.
just check their webpage, in french or dutch, if you don't believe me (this incident is not mentioned on the english version).
Even better: it's a "misunderstanding" (Score:5, Informative)
SABAM (the group in question) said, in a response, that it was a misunderstanding [google.com] (translated, Dutch original [standaard.be]). They charge 15 euro per public reading, and they cannot distinguish between adults and children. They always have to charge (their words, not mine).
For those of you wondering where the misunderstanding is: they invented a nice strawman for that, by saying that the library wasn't yet slapped with a yearly fee of about 250 euro. Which is true, that hadn't happened yet. But, from the sound of it, SABAM has every intention to do so.
Thankfully, this hasn't gone unnoticed. SABAM is losing favour with politicians [google.com]. Hopefully this storm will go somewhere. Note that SABAM isn't the only rightsholder club in Belgium (there apparently is some competition! yay free market!), so dissolving them ought to be an option.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't care what the context is.
Maybe Belgian society is different and while I've been contrarian on IP rights here, this is unfuckingacceptable. Period. If they took that 15â cost, and then donated it back, maybe. If its due to some EU IP thing.
Otherwise SABAM should come out in public dressed up like a Tin tin villain.
Re: (Score:3)
I think belgian society considers SABAM to be opportunistic sharks.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
It shouldn't matter. They ARE doing these things, they're just upset that they're not free to slap first and apologize later (if and only if they get caught by the public).
They come out looking like the worst kind of scum in public because they ACT like the worst kind of scum in public. If you have a go around kicking puppies and stealing candy from babies it's only natural that people will think that's what you're up to even when you happen not to be for once.
They are horrible (Score:5, Informative)
As a belgian I can only confirm that they are the most horrible kind of "rightsholder group" you can imagine. Some of their "royalties" include. An extra tax on every dataholder (empty CD's, hard drive's, memory cards, ipods, etc...), local bands have to pay a fee when they perform even when they only perform their own songs (because they are influenced by ...), they collect fee's from doctors waiting rooms, pubs, private parties, buses, even on the work-floor when there is music playing, ...
Re: (Score:2)
Re:They are horrible (Score:4, Informative)
confirmed; sadly enough.
They need to collect more! (Score:3, Funny)
This is piracy, plain and simple. The publishers are losing millions, if not billions, because each kid now won't need to buy the book themselves. They need to multiply the cost of the book by the number of kids being read to, and add a half dozen zeroes to the end for good measure.
Copyrights are to be taken very seriously, folks! This mass, rampant piracy needs to come to a close immediately so these poor, kind, destitute authors can get what is due to them.
Those volunteers are stealing $150,000 per reading (Score:2)
We should imprison people who talk (Score:2)
Or perhaps pull out their tongues. And don't forget to blind people who look at things.
I don't see the problem here (Score:2)
If you believe that you can "own" information, this follows naturally.
Re: (Score:2)
I would love to hear Roald Dahl's opinion on this. I believe it would be particularly succinct given the nature of all his stories [recap: wicked adults torment innocent children in various ways]. Too bad he is dead...
Re: (Score:3)
Perhaps most people don't ACTUALLY believe in information ownership. Many are perfectly fine with the concept of a 'commercial copyright' where you must respect copyright when you engage in commerce, but very few believe that sharing with friends, volunteer or charity work in the public interest, and similar non-commercial pursuits should be included.
People are somewhat split on the large scale file sharing. It's non-commercial, but a bit beyond the bounds of sharing amongst friends. Even there, I suspect m
Abolish copyright (Score:2)
The Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
with all those sensational messages is that the individuals making the decisions are unknown. It's an organization of some kind with some capital letters as abbreviated name.
Who are those persons?
Spokesperson - Jerome Van Win - http://www.facebook.com/jvanwin [facebook.com] ??
SABAM headquarters is located at 75-77 rue d'Arlon in Brussels
Christophe DEPRETER has been the Managing Director of SABAM since 1 July 2009.
http://www.sabam.be/en/sabam/management [sabam.be]
http://www.raaskalderij.be/2012/03/sabam-noemt-uitbreiding-activiteit-logische-stap/ [raaskalderij.be]
Carine Libert, Department of Legal Affairs and International Affairs http://www.facebook.com/people/Carine-Libert/100002967307348 [facebook.com]
Luc Van Oycke, Director of Administration and Finance http://kopimiuk.wordpress.com/tag/luc-van-oycke/ [wordpress.com]
Willy Heyns, Director of ICT http://www.facebook.com/people/Willy-Heyns/100000541173703 [facebook.com]
Jac Cuypers, COO http://www.facebook.com/jac.cuypers [facebook.com]
Serge Vloeberghs, Director of Sales http://www.facebook.com/people/Serge-Vloeberghs/1171478165 [facebook.com]
Sandrine Evenepoel, Director of Human Resources http://www.facebook.com/sandrine.evenepoel [facebook.com]
E-mail : contact@sabam.be - yaaawn!
Shame them!
technically correct, (Score:2)
it's technically correct, but who thought that anyone would push the point. It's a public performance, the author may be entitled to royalties, library or park bench or TV, that doesn't matter in the eyes of copy-write
Forget Copyright Altogether (Score:2)
Time for a new law (Score:2)
The law needs to be modified so that COPYRIGHT only controls the RIGHT to COPY the copyrighted material.
Anything else you want to do with your LEGAL COPY of a copyrighted material should be unrestricted.
Sick, Totally Sick - No Private Ownership? (Score:2)
Once they nail libraries, they will try to charge book buyers based on how many people are in the family.
Then they will put a little BT 4.0 ineractive lock on the book and charge you every time you open the cover.
What happened to the concept of private ownership?
Please! (Score:2)
Won't somebody stop thinking of the children?
I'm glad our library system is established. (Score:5, Insightful)
Dear SABAM, (Score:2)
OK, that tears it. (Score:5, Interesting)
These people are just evil.
Courts are there so that people do not resort to /other means/ for just ice.
Bullying libraries and others because you're not making enough (in your twisted world) short term money (hey guys, teaching kids to love books and reading means you have future customers) means you are a leech on society and you should be removed. Permanently.
I suggest it's time for /other means/
--
BMO
Re: (Score:2)
Of course they don't have kids. Like the amoebas they try to intellectually emulate, they reproduce by binary fission.
Re:SABAM members don't have kids (Score:5, Informative)
The estuary of the Scheldt is the ideal place to assemble a fleet to invade England.
England didn't want the Dutch, French, Austrians, Spanish or whatever passed for Germans at that time to have it.
Now, they'd have been happy to garrison it, for the benefit of its populace of course, just like they had for ... well, most of the world actually. But there was one slight problem.
See, the Dutch, French, Austrians, Spanish and whatever passed for Germans at that time didn't want the English to have a beachhead on the mainland, because they'd misbehaved somewhat on more than one occasion when they still had Calais. Go back a bit further to when the limey buggers still had Aquitaine; they managed to start a war that went on so long they actually lost count of how many years it lasted and had to just bloody guess when it came to naming it.
Hence, the only solution to the impasse was to invent a fictional entity to put it in. Sort of like Washington DC.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Any other action would be tantamount to anarchy.
More and more I wonder if that's such a bad thing, really...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
If you have actually convinced yourself that, there is no redeeming you.
Re: (Score:2)
A week ago, I went to watch a DVD on my computer (anime TV series, ~20 discs in set). MPClassic could not play it properly, and WMP said I did not have rights to view the disc. So I torrented the whole series and watched that.
So you downloaded several tens of gigabytes to avoid DRM on one product? VLC for Windows is only 20MB. Mplayer is about 35MB. Even a full-blown super-fat linux distro (which will never tell you you don't have rights to watch some media) is 3.5GB and most are less. You must have a lot of patience. I'm glad I'm not sharing a contended ADSL link with you.
Personally, I buy music direct from the musicians' websites or in person from the musician at a gig. I only buy games that specifically do not have DRM. I rec